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US Cancels Russian Helicopter Deal Amid Syria Standoff Senator
RIA Novosti ^ | November 13, 2013 | Staff

Posted on 11/13/2013 1:15:58 PM PST by Navy Patriot

WASHINGTON, November 13 (RIA Novosti) – The United States has scrapped plans to purchase additional helicopters from state-run Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport amid pressure from federal lawmakers over Russian arms deliveries to Syria, a top US senator said Wednesday.

“I applaud the [US] Defense Department’s decision to cancel its plan to buy 15 additional Mi-17 helicopters from Rosoboronexport,” US Sen. John Cornyn said in statement, The Associated Press (AP) reported.

Cornyn, a Republican from Texas, has been leading a push in Congress to oppose the Pentagon’s purchase of Russian helicopters for deployment in Afghanistan due to Moscow’s weapons shipments to the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad as his forces battle rebel groups in a fierce civil war.

Russia has insisted that it is fulfilling existing contracts with Syria, and that the deliveries are legal under international law. Moscow has also questioned the composition and goals of the various armed groups fighting the Assad regime.

(Excerpt) Read more at en.ria.ru ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: capitalism; crony; prorusskietrolls; russia
Crony capitalism as bribes doesn't always work.
1 posted on 11/13/2013 1:15:58 PM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: Navy Patriot

LOL, an Obamatantrum.


2 posted on 11/13/2013 1:18:18 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: Navy Patriot

Why are we buying helicopters from RUSSIA? Or any other country for that matter........


3 posted on 11/13/2013 1:20:17 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Red Badger
We buy Russian helicopters for two reasons, in no particular order:

Russians make good helicopters.

The purchases are crony capitalist bribes to further cooperation with US government policy.

4 posted on 11/13/2013 1:23:57 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Darksheare

5 posted on 11/13/2013 1:26:42 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

6 posted on 11/13/2013 1:29:01 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: SandRat

LOL!
Thanks!


7 posted on 11/13/2013 1:29:13 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: Darksheare
LOL, an Obamatantrum.

Yep, and Cornyn is first to get the memo.

8 posted on 11/13/2013 1:34:37 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

No matter how good they are, we should by from American manufacturers.
The only upside I can see is this would force American manufacturers to upgrade their products to compete................


9 posted on 11/13/2013 1:36:22 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Red Badger

That’s my question. We don’t have any American manufacturers that can build a helicopter?


10 posted on 11/13/2013 1:39:07 PM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Rino’s begin racing right!


11 posted on 11/13/2013 1:39:12 PM PST by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: Venturer

I think they plan to give them to the Afghans.


12 posted on 11/13/2013 1:40:54 PM PST by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: Navy Patriot

You couldn’t pay me to board a Russian aircraft.


13 posted on 11/13/2013 1:44:20 PM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: Red Badger
Don't worry, General Motors or General Electric will get the contracts.

...... I'm sorry, not keeping up with the times,...that's Government Motors or Government Electric.

The US government employs Austrian Economics, ... at least the Swastika part.

14 posted on 11/13/2013 1:45:03 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Standing Wolf
You couldn’t pay me to board a Russian aircraft.

Generally speaking, you are correct.

Generally speaking...

15 posted on 11/13/2013 1:47:10 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Venturer

We do, but I know that Russian helicopters are typically huge, and can carry lots of stuff. That may be why......


16 posted on 11/13/2013 1:48:51 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Navy Patriot

Kruschev said that they would sell us the rope with which we will hang ourselves.........perhaps he was right......


17 posted on 11/13/2013 1:50:10 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Red Badger

Correct. The helos mentioned in the article, Mi-17s, are big suckas. Even then, these are not the biggest helicopters that the Russkies make.


18 posted on 11/13/2013 2:03:57 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Navy Patriot

purchase heliocpters to use in Afghanistan by whom??

US troops should only use US products - we have an economy in trouble. Buying Russian won’t help it.


19 posted on 11/13/2013 2:03:57 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: AppyPappy

I suppose because the Afghans have been so nice to us.


20 posted on 11/13/2013 2:12:31 PM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Red Badger
Why are we buying helicopters from RUSSIA? Or any other country for that matter........

Theirs are better at the high altitudes needed to fight in the Afghanistan mountains.

21 posted on 11/13/2013 2:14:06 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: Army Air Corps

Reminds me of a scene from “2012’.

John Cusack: This is a BIG plane!

Wealthy Russian Oligarch: It’s Russian.................


22 posted on 11/13/2013 2:20:51 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: null and void

Didn’t help them, much................


23 posted on 11/13/2013 2:21:30 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: null and void
Who gets the Rooskie equipment ?
Our “allies” or the enemy ?
24 posted on 11/13/2013 2:21:31 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Red Badger

Yeah, and they were fighting to win, too!


25 posted on 11/13/2013 2:24:12 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Uhhhhh, which one was which, again?


26 posted on 11/13/2013 2:24:54 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: null and void

IIRC, the ‘rebels’ learned that all you had to do was lure the helos into a narrow ravine and drop boulders onto them from above...................


27 posted on 11/13/2013 2:26:14 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: null and void
After all the lives and treasure we've poured into this s*ithole, we now buy Rooshun helicopters for them ?
28 posted on 11/13/2013 2:26:38 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Red Badger
cuz we don't have to ship them

Cancelling the deal is a Big mistake....

We didn't belong in Syria in the first place....supporting a bunch of rotten muzzies

Or Egypt...or Libya...

29 posted on 11/13/2013 2:42:45 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Standing Wolf

Guess who’s running the space station now...


30 posted on 11/13/2013 2:43:31 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Red Badger

that was my first question.


31 posted on 11/13/2013 2:44:24 PM PST by esoxmagnum ( Some hide in bunkers when there is trouble, others run towards the trouble.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Looks like some U.S. business and political constituent leaders were trying to do their relatives in the old country a favor again.


32 posted on 11/13/2013 3:14:06 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Red Badger

Afghans couldn’t properly maintain U.S. helicopters, but the Russian Mi-17 is another story.

After logging quite a few hours in the back end of Russian Mi-17 Hip helicopters, several things about the aircraft and how the Russians built them became apparent. The Mi-17 is similar in size and has similar performance capabilities as a CH-47 Chinook helicopter but comparing the two is like comparing a Yugo with a Ferrari. Both helicopters will get you from point A to point B, but that’s about where the similarity ends.

When an American boards an Mi-17, he knows right away he’s on an alien aircraft; nothing is familiar. The interior is painted a sickly blue; there’s no soundproofing padding, leaking hydraulic fluid smells strange, the engine’s loud and sounds like a washing machine with an unbalanced load and emits a foul smelling exhaust from half-burned fuel that finds its way into the troop compartment through the rear gunner’s window. But the most disconcerting thing about the Mi-17 is that the five rotor blades turn in a clockwise direction and the fuselage wobbles under the rotor blades in a counter clockwise direction. To fly in a forward motion while at the same time moving in a counter clockwise direction takes some getting used to.

There’s nothing on the Mi-17 that’s automatic or computer controlled. If the pilot wants the helicopter to do something, a lever must be pulled, a switch flipped or a button pushed. It doesn’t appear possible for the pilot to fly the aircraft alone in anything but straight and level flight. For anything else, it takes the pilot, the copilot, and the flight engineer working together to make the thing fly any kind of intricate maneuver. To watch the three of them put an Mi-17 into a tight LZ in marginal weather is like watching three maestros performing a concert together, but it makes one wonder what would happen to all on board if one or more of the trio were to become a casualty.

The overall simplicity of the Mi-17 is one of the most impressive things about it. This simplicity was demonstrated one day when we were out on an operation and our Mi-17 developed engine trouble. The pilot set us down on a small dirt road by a river; the Flight Engineer climbed up on the top of the aircraft, removed the engine cowling, and proceeded to disassemble the engine. Within a few minutes, there were parts and pieces of the engine lying all over the road, and it began to look to us as if we were out of the ongoing operation for good. But, just as we were about to call in that we were out of the play, the Flight Engineer found the offending engine part, pulled it out, blew on it several times and wiped it on his shirt, then he reassembled the engine, and we took off. Just try doing that with a CH-47 Chinook.

Even though the Mi-17 is a troop transport helicopter, it can be and usually is heavily armed. The Mi-17 can carry a variety of rack mounted weapons and the usual armament consists of rocket pods on the right and left side of the helicopter.

Mi-17s have rear clam-shell doors that can be swung out to take on equipment when the helicopter is on the ground with the engine shut down, but isn’t practical for quickly loading and unloading troops. The helicopter can carry thirty-four troops who must enter and depart the aircraft from one small troop door near the front left side of the aircraft, and right beside this troop door is a rocket pod holding twenty 80MM rockets with High Explosive warheads.
Passengers must pass directly in front of this rocket pod when entering or departing the aircraft, and if the pilot feels it’s necessary during a heliborne assault, he’ll salvo 10-20 80MM rockets into the LZ and at least one of these rockets will miss fire and still be hanging in the pod and smoking when the helicopter lands. Troops exiting the helicopter must pass directly in front of this smoking rocket, and, needless to say, this gives departing troops incentive to make a very quick exit of the aircraft.

Mounted over the Mi-17’s troop door is a hoist with a winch and several hundred feet of steel cable and is used to extract or lower personnel and equipment when an LZ is not available, but the hoist and steel cable have another and more mundane daily use. The five rotor blades on an Mi-17 generate a tremendous amount of static electricity during flight and when it sets down on an LZ on its three rubber tires it retains that charge of electricity until the helicopter is grounded. As an Mi-17 approaches an LZ, the Flight Engineer leans out the troop door, and, using the hoist, he lowers the steel cable with a grounding probe attached in order to ground the helicopter as it touches down. If a soldier walks up and touches an Mi-17 before the Flight Engineer has properly grounded the helicopter, the discharge of static electricity could possibly kill the soldier, or, at a minimum, it will knock him out.

It’s almost comical to see an Mi-17 arrive on an LZ to pick up a team, and, even though the Flight Engineer signals it’s safe to do so, no one wants to be the first to approach the helicopter. All too often, the Flight Engineer thinks he has properly grounded the helicopter but hasn’t. Therefore, Mi-17 protocol calls for junior personnel to board the aircraft first.

One of the most revealing things about how the Soviet Union designed and built aircraft or anything else for that matter is that the Mi-17 uses the same door handle on its troop door that’s been used on Russian army trucks since 1935. Apparently when the Mi-17 designer needed a door handle, he simply ordered a vehicle door handle from the door handle factory and was done with it.

If the Mi-17 had been a U.S. helicopter, the production of its troop door handle would’ve been ladled out as a dollop of pork on some U.S. Congressman’s District. The contract for this door handle would’ve gone to, probably, the Congressman’s brother-in-law. Tens of thousands of dollars would’ve been spent on that door handle’s R&D, and the final thoroughly tested and approved product would’ve been a one of a kind, ergonomic, Helicopter Door Handle, Type Mi-17 at a cost to the U.S. Taxpayer of at least a $1,000 each, but it would’ve really opened that door in style.

Like the Russian AK-47, the Mi-17 is crude, roughly finished, heavy, and compared to U.S. equipment they’re technically unsophisticated therefore comparatively easy for Third World soldiers to operate and maintain. As different from U.S. military equipment, there was no agenda involved in their design and production other than their utility. Lobbyists, politicians, and industrialist’s profit didn’t enter into the equation as it always does in U.S. weapons procurement.

Sometimes I wonder how we won the “Cold War” with Russia and the Soviet Union. Or did we really win the war, as the United States now has a Marxist Communist President and Russia now has a Free Market Capitalist President. If that thought doesn’t make your head hurt, nothing will.

DJ Taylor


33 posted on 11/13/2013 4:29:00 PM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: Standing Wolf

“You couldn’t pay me to board a Russian aircraft.”

I could pay you twenty bucks to name two Russian aircraft and you couldn’t do it.


34 posted on 11/13/2013 5:56:04 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: sergeantdave

Sure I could.


35 posted on 11/13/2013 7:37:25 PM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: Red Badger; Venturer

An idea of Russian LIGHT helicopter is Mi-8/17 and it is SLIGHTLY worse than Chinook in terms of payload which is a heaviest US helicopter. To make things worse Mi-8/17 takes less maintenance than Huey, it has better take-off and landing specs being capable to operate from high terrain in extreme heat, armed as heavy as a C-130 based gunship etc.
And if we are talking about a HEAVY russian helicopter it is Mi-26 and it’s payload is close to C-17.
A Russian version of Black Hawk is armed to a level of A-10, armored to a level of Stryker APC, features door gunner as a crew member and still brings up to a dozen troops to a battlefield. I might be wrong but it probably keeps a world record as a fastest mass produced chopper since earlier 1970s too.


36 posted on 11/14/2013 5:18:01 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: DJ Taylor

Therefore, Mi-17 protocol calls for junior personnel to board the aircraft first..............

37 posted on 11/14/2013 6:42:48 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: DJ Taylor
Sometimes I wonder how we won the “Cold War” with Russia and the Soviet Union. Or did we really win the war, as the United States now has a Marxist Communist President and Russia now has a Free Market Capitalist President. If that thought doesn’t make your head hurt, nothing will.

My father-in-law, now in his 80's, once said back in the 1970's that Russia (USSR then) would get more and more free, while we would get less and less free, until you reached the point where WE would rather live there than here...........looks like he was right............

38 posted on 11/14/2013 6:49:39 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: sergeantdave

Su, Tu, Yak, Mig, An, Mi models - to name the few.


39 posted on 11/14/2013 9:28:00 AM PST by MarietDeLot [at DDO]
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To: MarietDeLot [at DDO]

Outstanding.


40 posted on 11/14/2013 3:07:31 PM PST by sergeantdave
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