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What's a "Death Panel"? (Freep Wikipedia's Anti-Palin rant)
Wikipedia ^ | 11/13/2013 | Jack Black

Posted on 11/14/2013 11:35:50 PM PST by Jack Black

I have been involved in editing the article on Death Panels on Wikipedia. For those who are interested in Obamacare the original claim by Sarah Palin that Obamacare would include panels that would limit treatment to achieve cost savings and might be expected to result in people not getting treatment they need, particularly older or disabled people, seems like yet another obvious fact that the left cannot accept.

No where is this more clear than in the Wikipedia article on Death Panels which, in violation of Wikipedia rules is essentially a long diatribe against Gov. Palin.

I am requesting a good old fashioned Freep of Wikipedia for the purpose of building "consensus" among the smug, self-satisfied leftist editoral guard-dogs.

As you may know anyone can edit either Wikipedia or the talk pages. As I am not a destructive vandal I am not asking people to edit the article (at this time) but rather to read the article, and comment on it on the Talk page. The editors believe in consensus as the tool to set article direction. Fine, I believe there is a consensus that a Death Panel is a Death Panel is a Death Panel, regardless of who coined the term.

Here is the article: Death Panel.

Here is the Death Panel TALK page where, after reading the comments, I wold appreciate it if you would please append your own at the bottom. Keep it civil. If you have a WIKI login use it, but you can add comments without one (but they will attach your current IP address)

Thanks. I've been inspired by Matt Bracken's use of FR and Facebook to drive comments up the list, this is the same sort of on-line activism, and it is explicitly in support of Gov. Palin and common sense.

This is a sort of experiment to see if it's possible to make progress on Wikipedia using numbers, as it is claimed it should be.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; activism; deathpanel; deathpanels; obamacare; palin; wikipedia; zerocare

1 posted on 11/14/2013 11:35:50 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: Eaker; Absolutely Nobama; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ApesForEvolution; ..

Pinging my list for help. Sorry for the slight OT use of the list, but this is a good cause and will only take a few minutes.


2 posted on 11/14/2013 11:37:50 PM PST by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Jack Black
Your Death Panel article link was wrong. Here is the correct one.
3 posted on 11/14/2013 11:51:41 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: Jack Black

Wikipedia is an outstanding resource on rock and mathematics.

The anal libtards get all freaky on conservatives though...


4 posted on 11/14/2013 11:55:55 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Jack Black

Your first mistake is trying to reason with leftards.

Can’t be done.

This “Dr. Fleischman” creepwad seems actually to be denying that “death panel” is in common usage.

What an asshat.

A quick Google returns 522 million hits, more than one for every man, woman, and child in America. How many does he want?

These people are closed-minded bigots; their hatred for all things good limits what they are able to perceive.


5 posted on 11/15/2013 12:04:40 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Gene Eric

you HAVE heard of all the tales of conservatives getting all freaky on anal libtards haint cha...hmmmm...noooo..hmmm...there musta ben no survivors...


6 posted on 11/15/2013 12:08:12 AM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Jack Black

What's a "Death Panel"? (Freep Wikipedia's Anti-Palin rant) http://t.co/dFLrBtgNWt #tcot #ccot— First inThe Americas (@Solutrean) November 15, 2013


7 posted on 11/15/2013 12:12:57 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (posted a total of 2,382 threads and 20,000 replies)
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To: Jack Black
Death Panel.....here's some pointers from the UK National Health Service on how it works....

I see not just amputations on the wrong limb....but on the wrong patient.

and don't expect quick response for a broken arm:

And so you have an acute appendix....?

Mark Wattson, 35, from Swindon may have been the victim of botched surgery after he had to have his appendix removed twice

To his shock, surgeons from the same team told him that not only was his appendix still inside him, but it had ruptured - a potentially fatal complication.

In a second operation it was finally removed, leaving Mr Wattson fearing another organ might have been taken out during the first procedure.

The blunder has left Mr Wattson jobless, as bosses at the shop where he worked did not believe his story and sacked him.

Mr Wattson told of the moment he realised there had been a serious mistake.

'I was lying on a stretcher in terrible pain and a doctor came up to me and said that my appendix had burst,' he said.

'I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I told these people I had my appendix out just four weeks earlier but there it was on the scanner screen for all to see.

'I thought, "What the hell did they slice me open for in the first place?"

'I feel that if the surgery had been done correctly in the first place I wouldn't be in the mess I am today. I'm disgusted by the whole experience.'

Mr Wattson first went under the knife on July 7 after experiencing severe abdominal pain for several weeks. He was discharged but exactly a month later he had to dial 999 after collapsing in agony. Mr Wattson

Mr Wattson was readmitted to the Great Western Hospital in Swindon after his appendix ruptured.

Nurse will see you now

130,000 elderly patients killed every year by ‘death pathway’, claims leading UK doctor

by Thaddeus Baklinski Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:02 EST Tags: euthanasia, patrick pullicino, uk

LONDON, June 21, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - An eminent British doctor told a meeting of the Royal Society of Medicine in London that every year 130,000 elderly patients that die while under the care of the National Health Service (NHS) have been effectively euthanized by being put on the controversial Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP), a protocol for care of the terminally ill that he described as a “death pathway.”

Sit back and enjoy your Obamacare.

8 posted on 11/15/2013 12:28:08 AM PST by spokeshave (Obamacare is planned, just like the planned famine by the Russians to eliminate the Ukrainians.)
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To: spokeshave

That nurse is making me long for the comfort of a 12 gauge, in a “That outfit is creeping me the hell out” sort of way.


9 posted on 11/15/2013 12:42:07 AM PST by Antihero101607
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To: Antihero101607
....well in the UK you would have to make do with a sharp stick, since guns, shotguns, knives and other dangerous tools are banned.

But it's OK since you would be in great company as the wards are still those designed by Florence Nightingale.

(problem is that the "open plan" layout promotes cross infection ....like those nasty flesh eating bacterias)

10 posted on 11/15/2013 12:56:41 AM PST by spokeshave (Obamacare is planned, just like the planned famine by the Russians to eliminate the Ukrainians.)
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To: Jack Black

Try renting or buying the book Damaged Care. It is the true story of the HMO’s death panels.


11 posted on 11/15/2013 1:27:45 AM PST by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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To: All

What is the retention rate, or better yet the lifespan of doctors in the UK???

I have a feeling that if this begins to manifest itself here in the good ole USofA, that there may be a shortage of doctors in the near future...

Then what are they gonna do???

I also see the people in those kush, non-physician medical insurance review boards becoming extinct as well...

Anyway you look at this, there is no real winning senario here for communism...

We may vbery well have to suffer a little more, but the backlash (I feel) is primed and ready to be unleashed, and these goobers are nowhere near prepared for the attention that is about to focus on them...

Job security??? Hehehe, the more people end up with botched procedures, and arms looking like this...

The need to “spread the wealth/pain” will reach new hieghts...

This is just a gut-feeling I have...We can stave off this un-necessary, and potential response, if we can do everything we can to make this Tax go away...It may take 2-3 years, but the ends justify the means...

It was never about Healthcare in the first place, so why are we struggling to debate and converse about something that this whole thing is NOT about???

We gave the elected caste of knuckleheads their chance to defund it, get rid of it, and they failed miserably...

The people in this country will have the last laugh...

Elections have consequenses, and the conservative movement in this country has been losing the battles since 2006...With only a minor saving grace in 2010...We got lucky there...

“What are YOU prepared to do about it, and what are YOU willing to sacrifice to succeed?”

Those stodgy old white guys 230+ years ago were not fiddle farting around...they may have had their personal and professional dissagreements on how the thing should go, but after a few pints at the local pub, after a long day of debate, they parted on amiable terms, went home, and in those evenings sat with their families and made musket balls...They knew what they were doing would bring a fight, and for all intents and purposes:

“Prudence and Preparedness, will triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia everytime!” ~ Stevie-D (1992)


12 posted on 11/15/2013 2:03:24 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Jack Black

Examples of Bias in Wikipedia: Global warming

http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia:_Global_warming


13 posted on 11/15/2013 3:33:23 AM PST by preacher (I am not a global warming hoax denier.)
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To: Jack Black
wiki graffiti has a "long diatribe against Gov. Palin"? Imagine that.

I do use wiki sometimes but on political issues and matters related in any way to ideology it should just convert to a place to debate and stop the ruse of being an encyclopedia. We get enough of that kind of crap from the employees of the MSM.

14 posted on 11/15/2013 4:39:27 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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Here is the page to comment on, please. Appreciate the help from several of you so far! Keep it up!

Talk: Death Panel

15 posted on 11/15/2013 10:03:41 AM PST by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Jack Black
Wow.

That article has got to be the most blatantly politically biased article I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Over and over again, it goes out of its way to attack Conservatives (including a weird, tangential reference to Texas “Death Panels” supposedly signed into law by Bush).

Among their credible sources is uber-liberal Media Matters, and quite Liberal Politifact.

The whole thing reads like a White House Press Release. How could ANYONE at Wikipedia NOT see how unacceptably biased that whole page is?

16 posted on 11/15/2013 3:14:17 PM PST by TitansAFC ("I'm not much different from A.Cuomo.I probably agree with him on 98% of the issues." - Gov Christie)
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To: Jack Black; onyx; Abbeville Conservative; abigailsmybaby; afnamvet; alley cat; antceecee; ...
Ping to Sarah's Awesome List!

By Popular Request, what is history but a lie agreed upon?

Ubama NEVER promised you could keep your plan.

We have always been at War with Eurasia too.


17 posted on 11/15/2013 7:31:25 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: Jack Black
Former Lt. Gov. Betsy McCaughey leads 'death panel' charge writing up talking points August 12, 2009
18 posted on 11/15/2013 7:39:27 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: Jack Black; KC_Lion

Concerning the "Death Panels"

August 12, 2009 at 8:55pm

Yesterday President Obama responded to my statement that Democratic health care proposals would lead to rationed care; that the sick, the elderly, and the disabled would suffer the most under such rationing; and that under such a system these “unproductive” members of society could face the prospect of government bureaucrats determining whether they deserve health care.

The President made light of these concerns. He said:

“Let me just be specific about some things that I’ve been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that’s been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we’ve decided that we don’t, it’s too expensive to let her live anymore....It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, etc. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they’re ready on their own terms. It wasn’t forcing anybody to do anything.” [1]

The provision that President Obama refers to is Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” [2] With all due respect, it’s misleading for the President to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients. The issue is the context in which that information is provided and the coercive effect these consultations will have in that context.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]

Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.” [5] Is it any wonder that senior citizens might view such consultations as attempts to convince them to help reduce health care costs by accepting minimal end-of-life care? As Charles Lane notes in the Washington Post, Section 1233 “addresses compassionate goals in disconcerting proximity to fiscal ones.... If it’s all about obviating suffering, emotional or physical, what’s it doing in a measure to “bend the curve” on health-care costs?” [6]

As Lane also points out:

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren’t quite “purely voluntary,” as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, “purely voluntary” means “not unless the patient requests one.” Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit “formulation” of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would “place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,” I don’t think he’s being realistic.
[7]

Even columnist Eugene Robinson, a self-described “true believer” who “will almost certainly support” “whatever reform package finally emerges”, agrees that “If the government says it has to control health-care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending.” [8]

So are these usually friendly pundits wrong? Is this all just a “rumor” to be “disposed of”, as President Obama says? Not according to Democratic New York State Senator Ruben Diaz, Chairman of the New York State Senate Aging Committee, who writes:

Section 1233 of House Resolution 3200 puts our senior citizens on a slippery slope and may diminish respect for the inherent dignity of each of their lives.... It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen ... should be placed in a situation where he or she would feel pressured to save the government money by dying a little sooner than he or she otherwise would, be required to be counseled about the supposed benefits of killing oneself, or be encouraged to sign any end of life directives that they would not otherwise sign. [9]

Of course, it’s not just this one provision that presents a problem. My original comments concerned statements made by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor to President Obama and the brother of the President’s chief of staff. Dr. Emanuel has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens....An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” [10] Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” [11]

President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisors are clear enough. It’s all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform.

- Sarah Palin

SEE REFERENCES AT LINK

19 posted on 11/15/2013 7:41:31 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Jack Black

Truthfully the only thing she’s wrong on is that if these things get going, they’re not going to be the type of panels you can show up and argue your case before. The rules are going to be written by committee, implemented by committee and presented to you as a fait accompli. What, you thought it’d be any easier to get out-of-the-box treatment under Obamacare, let alone single-payer, than it is now?


20 posted on 11/15/2013 7:49:00 PM PST by RichInOC (Palin 2016: The Perfect Storm.)
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To: onyx

Obama said it himself, grandma might have to take a painkiller...I paraphrase from poor memory


21 posted on 11/15/2013 7:49:24 PM PST by Friendofgeorge ( Palin 2016 or bust)
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To: Friendofgeorge

You’re right. I remember that Q & A exchange. It was utterly horrifying.


22 posted on 11/15/2013 8:09:56 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Jack Black; Admin Moderator

They’re on guard LOL!
A warning about your post is there from
[[Special:Contributions/68.98.132.96|68.98.132.96]] ([[User talk:68.98.132.96|talk]]) 23:38, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Admin moderator might find that IP used by a troll here.


23 posted on 11/15/2013 8:26:18 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: KC_Lion; onyx
A little push-back for that filth mouth and brain dead Sad Sack Martin Bashir:


MartinlittlePP photo Martin-little-pp_zps2e270204.jpg

24 posted on 11/15/2013 8:36:11 PM PST by Col Freeper (FR: A smorgasbord of Conservative Mindfood - dig in and enjoy it!)
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To: spokeshave

That creepy nurse in the full burka gives me one saving reassurance. At least she won’t put any hairs into anyone’s hospital soup.


25 posted on 11/15/2013 8:37:38 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Col Freeper

Oops, sorry, wrong thread, LOL.


26 posted on 11/15/2013 8:37:55 PM PST by Col Freeper (FR: A smorgasbord of Conservative Mindfood - dig in and enjoy it!)
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To: Col Freeper; onyx

LOL! That one needs to go in the FReep-a-thon stack!


27 posted on 11/15/2013 8:44:25 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: jonrick46

Not long ago there were 2 Muslim nurses taking a photo with a corpse and saying they were glad the guy died. JIHAD y’all


28 posted on 11/15/2013 8:49:01 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Col Freeper

GRAPHIC!

LOLOLOLOLOL

PREFECT !©

29 posted on 11/15/2013 8:49:36 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: Jack Black

One of the guys that started WIKI who is now deceased I think is(was) a known liberal.


30 posted on 11/15/2013 8:51:21 PM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: freekitty

No doubt, still they have rules and I am trying to follow them to get a better outcome for Wikipedia. I really don’t feel like I am driving an ideological point here, I’m just trying to fix one of the worst articles I’ve read on Wikipedia.

The behavior of the other editors is depressing, they are using little tricks to avoid discussion of the salient issues. It’s quite pathetic, which is why I’ve asked for help.

It only takes a few minutes to add some comments, I hope at least a few people do.


31 posted on 11/15/2013 9:13:10 PM PST by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: Jack Black

I know of one group for a breed of dog that was such a lie, I couldn’t believe it. Most of the people couldn’t even participate due to the head bully who also happened to be a friend of the deceased owner of Wiki.


32 posted on 11/16/2013 9:36:37 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Jack Black
I made the mistake of looking up Death Panel on Wikipedia, only to find an incorrect definition and a gratuitous rant against Palin.
Death panels refers to the IPAB, an independent, all knowing, all powerful board of mostly nonprofessionals that will decide what health care will be paid for. That in my mind is a death panel. Wikipedia references something else, apparently in an effort to hide the truth and pan Palin. While I had only limited confidence in Wikipedia, I have none now. The Death Panel entry is in violation of Wikipedia standards requiring that the entries be neutral points of view. Really a shame that Wikipedia has become a mouthpiece for Progressives.
33 posted on 11/18/2013 6:48:45 PM PST by CharlieFFoxtrot
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