Skip to comments.Pa. Pastor facing church trial over gay marriage
Posted on 11/18/2013 3:24:56 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
A Pennsylvania pastor charged under United Methodist law with officiating his son's same-sex marriage is scheduled to go on trial.
The Rev. Frank Schaefer, 51, could be defrocked....
"Public opinion has changed very rapidly," said the pastor's son....
...Schaefer could have avoided a trial if he had agreed never again to perform a same-gender wedding, but he declined because three of his four children are gay.
(Excerpt) Read more at m.chron.com ...
A show wedding. Meant to get him defrocked. Then he’ll just move on to a sodomite denomination who’ll welcome him with open arms. The purpose being is to follow the Alinsky model to chip away at what is good and right.
Wow. Just, wow. I sure the good pastor had a good time "rearing" his children. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the only child who is not gay happens to be the only child who is female...
three out of four of his children
Threat to redemption, they are.
Repeat after me, a man does not have sex with his aunt, she is his aunt. And a man does not have sex with a man, he is to be a redeeming neighbor.
Not really his but satan’s children. Liberals love to abuse terms.
People who take fun so seriously as to bond it in such contracts which impersonate and redefine the term marriage are a danger to society much like a pitbul fixated on a toy bone... very feral, unsubmissive and dangerous.
75% of my children are queer.
How did a faggot man have children and where's mama ?
This story is just ... I don't know ... is the world THIS crazy ?
He’ll open his own little church & make his own rules.
Jesus is weeping.
Hell open his own little church & make his own rules.
Jesus is weeping.
plenty of established churches that have gone over to the dark side....from Episcopalian on down....
And they try to claim this isn't learned behavior.
Methodists have given their ordained ministers a wide latitude of beliefs since WWI. But since their seminaries have become so liberal, you get a minister like the one who trained Hillary Clinton.
Methodists very specifically did not ordain women as elders until after about 1955 or 1960. Since then, the whole denomination has become left-handed. IMHO
Three of his children are gay. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, I would bet this preacher is a Fudge packer too.
Notice that it is all about him. Not about his church, his congregation or even the denomination which pays his salary.
And they try to claim this isn't learned behavior.
Having that large a percentage of homosexual (not "gay"; "queer" works, though) children sounds extremely odd. I hope we get a poster who can address that possibility occurring. I, for one, have never heard of such a thing. Learned behavior certainly does seem the answer, though.
Actually, our standards in the area of homosexuality have been written down and are strict. They say that homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching and that homosexuals are not to be ordained and that homosexual weddings are not to be performed in our churches.
This is what the conservative wing of the church has won on maintaining for years now, and this is what the admission of the African churches to full voting rights will make extremely difficult for the liberals to change. Last quadrennium they tried an end around to have each national church become their own rule-making organization, but that, too, was defeated.
So, while I readily admit that our seminaries are infected with gross liberalism, I'll also point out that Asbury Seminary, a general Methodist seminary but acceptable to our denomination, has remained biblical, and I'll also point out that a rebellion of sorts has taken place at United Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, and that it has rejected its liberal past and is returning to a more biblical position.
Those who know of these struggles should pray for the conservatives in the United Methodist Church. They are showing progress on some significant fronts.
When did he “teach” them? When they were little and impressionable? Wouldn’t that make him a pedophile?
One of our pastors attended a gay wedding......the wedding of her ex-husband.
That’s two wrongs right there!
Yep. There are some absolute non-Christians in our pulpits.
I won’t grace the door of a church with a female pastor/priest.
She’s a Christian. And her ex-husband is a pastor(not UMC).
I think there is just so much confusion in the world. Jesus says that a person who divorces and remarries is committing adultery. Is marrying someone of the same sex a “worser” form of adultery?
The real problem is that we have started encouraging sin in the church. We are motivating people towards their own self-destruction, because it is easier than trying to help them.
The term is priestess. Neither will I.
We send people into the darkest parts of the world to bring light and you won’t even bring it to a local church with a pastorette. #irony
My mother-in-law was set against woman’s ordination but she was a member of a PCUSA church. She told me “I go where God wants me to go, not where I want to go”.
1 Timothy 2:11-12 - Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
So you have women in the choir? How do they sing if they are silent?
“Frank Schaefer has said he informed his superiors in the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference that he planned to officiate his son’s wedding, and again after the ceremony, which took place at a restaurant near Boston.”
“Sure, son. But we will have to travel out of state, because as everyone knows we have to have the state’s permission and blessing in order to perform this particular facet of our faith—yes, it is a little hypocritical that I think two men may be married to each other, but only if the state they happen to be in agrees with them about it.
Hey, I’m just happy you didn’t want to marry one of your brothers.”
There is no form of acceptable homosexuality in the bible, Old or New Testaments.
Is there an acceptable form of adultery?
In our day, we would consider polygamy to be a form of adultery. The Old Testament was not clear at all on that, and the Apostle Paul is the one who broached Jesus’ “one man one woman” teaching (man shall leave his father and mother...) by directly teaching that a bishop (and deacon) could be the husband of only one wife.
The clear object here is that this church officer intends to make the Church accept his views, rather than to accept the Church's published views and leave the ministry (and one would hope the Church) because of incompatibility of his views.
One wonders why the incident took place in MA, but the trial is taking place in PA. Certainly the MA location is not in the same Conference as the trial. Did the minister officiate under MA law of the time (2007)? Would a Massachusetts Conference or Bishop stepping in be seen as a discriminatory form of "hate speech" where same-sex marriage had then become lawful under MA state law? Was/is this minister's charge located in PA, and is the trial thus in PA where the ban of same-sex marriage is still in effect?
And why has this taken six years to bring the minister to trial? Knowing the Church law being beyond question in this matter, why was this minister's qualifications not suspended immediately? If his dismissal from the Conference to be effected, would he not have a basis for a civil trial against the Church?
I think you see the morass that tolerance in doctrinal practice has brought the UMC to, eh?
Clearly, adultery is condemned as is divorce. But we had to stop condemning the latter because of heat from the world. So it is natural that homosexuality should enter through the open door.
I know a pastor that CHOSE to become a homosexual and he got the thumb from the UMC almost immediately.
Hogwash. I left the UM because it joined the enemy. In Oregon, there are several UM churches with gay ministers. One of them had a small flyer in the pews which said, "We're not here to convert you, but to invite you into a community of friendship."
I do believe our winking at divorce (the American church began to “accept” it in the 60s) began the ball rolling wherein the value of marriage was denigrated.
Now, in this culture, the view of marriage is even more perverted.
It’s not as much a moral issue as much as it represents our dismissal of Scripture. We placed a prohibition on some Scripture.
In the Lessons and Carols, they took out the verse in Genesis that states that the man shall rule over the woman. They had to explicitly remove it.
As a Sunday School teacher, I have taught 1 Tim and Jesus’ words on divorce. When people objected, I simply stated “I didn’t write this. It’s not in my handwriting. Don’t blame me”.
It is to the point where it would be impossible to preach the whole NT from the UMC pulpit. OK maybe you could do in the Holston conference but that’s about it.
Not hogwash that they are written down.
As you have experienced, that does NOT mean that some lame bishop looks the other way when it comes to enforcing them.
Oregon and the entire Pacific Northwest is our most liberal area along with northern Illinois and the northwest. The number of Methodists in those regions is dwarfed by other areas that are more conservative.
You have had to live in one of the worst areas, and I have no problem with your rejection of the denomination that has been presented to you. I wish it would have been different for you, but your decision to reject what you found was actually positive in 2 areas: (1) It is a bold witness that those areas are going the wrong direction and dying, and (2) It lessens the numbers in your region, and that reduces their voting power at denominational meetings.
Nothing will happen to him in a denomination which sees nothing wrong with unbiblically ordaining women.
That might be an exception rather than the rule. Please see the article I just found, looking into this, and have posted:
. . . sadly.
By subscribing to a "social gospel" message and "social justice" program, the Church has committed itself to be guided by the wishes of the kosmos, the world system, rather than by Biblical truths. IMHO
The article you posted is about one of our retired bishops. The denomination is a puzzle to some who haven’t thought about it a lot, but there is no authority over a bishop in our denomination. They are each in charge of their own geographic region (conference), and they do not answer to anyone in the church.
And here we’re talking about a retired bishop, and they simply answer to no one, but at the same time they are now over no one.
Our church governance is responsible for a lot of our problems, but at the same time, to understand the problems one must also understand the governance.
You can no doubt fine that. At the same time, had you been at our humble, rural church yesterday, you'd have heard about Jacob's flight from home after, with his mother's help, he'd deceived his father and cheated his brother. God got his attention in a dream with a stairway to heaven. (Gen 28)
And it is fruitless for the church to come down hard on homosexuality while ignoring adultery. Homosexuality is a minor blip on the Biblical radar compared to adultery.
Remember something about these gay pastors who leave their families. They almost always seek other lovers while still married. Where’s the outrage? It’s covered up by the “tolerance”.
I agree that the bible rejects adultery. However, it also utterly rejects homosexuality. I wouldn't call it just a "blip" and feel comfortable that I'd done the biblical distinctions justice.
No, it utterly rejects adultery. Adultery is the foundation of all sin. Homosexuality is just one of the manifestations. It just comes with its own “Get Out Of Jail” card because it excuses its sin.
I am curious to know whether my pastor would say it is a sin for her ex-husband to have an affair considering he is “married” to another man. Would it be a sin if his “partner” agreed to it?(very common)
We are so focused on his sexuality that we have ignored the fact that he dumped his wife and kids for another lover.
I’ve met a few conservative female pastors. a few mind you.
I think that an abandoning of sin is, as you say, the objective of repentance.
That said, notice Jacob had not submitted. He said, “If You’ll do this that and the other for me, then You’ll be my God.”
That wasn’t a textbook confession by any means in Genesis 28. Yet, God started Jacob on Jacob’s journey toward God, and Jacob did not resist.
I could take it there and probably make a case for it, but I think Satan's sin was pride, a narcissistic placing of self above God.