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Members of Congress: Abolish IRS
World Net Daily ^ | 19 November, 2013 | Bob Unruh

Posted on 11/19/2013 8:24:49 AM PST by Errant

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To: i_robot73

Agree - NO INCOME TAXES AT ALL. Tariffs and a NRST plus shrinking FedGov™.


51 posted on 11/19/2013 10:34:14 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: teeman8r; canuck_conservative

“what we have now started as a flat tax...

abolish it and institute the fair tax, where the states collect the revenue and the feds have to petition for a percentage”

A flat tax is still an income tax, and would leave the IRS in place.

It punishes productivity, and fails to capture any revenue from the illegal aliens and illegal activities like drugs and prostitution because most of them don’t report their income, but they buy stuff, so with the Fair Tax, they would start paying their share.

The IRS tried to take out the Tea Party, it would be sweet vengeance for the Tea Party to take out the IRS.

Rep Mike Kelly did a good job in one of the hearings, of explaining how the IRS terrorizes Americans with the threat and expense of an audit.

Say no to terrorism - abolish the IRS.

And now we are supposed to trust this monstrous agency with our lives and health?

Every discussion should point out that now is the time for the Fair Tax!!

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer


52 posted on 11/19/2013 10:35:35 AM PST by redinIllinois (Pro-life, accountant, gun-totin' grandma - multi issue voter)
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To: knarf

Hey,
Japan and Germany have done fine while using us to be their protectors,


53 posted on 11/19/2013 11:08:07 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) ( Hey Rubio, eat pooh pal))
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To: canuck_conservative

You MUST still allow the government to examine all your financial records to prove that you don’t have any hidden income. What part of SLAVERY don’t you understand?


54 posted on 11/19/2013 12:03:20 PM PST by Scarlet Pimpernel (And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?)
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To: redinIllinois
"A flat tax is still an income tax, and would leave the IRS in place."

It matters not if the source of funding is the current income tax, a flat tax, a sales tax, tariffs or some other revenue source....there will ALWAYS be (and ALWAYS has been)an "IRS". It has been called different things at different times, but some federal agency will always exist to collect the revenues due to the federal government.

Saying "abolish the IRS" is simply ludicrous, and will accomplish nothing.

55 posted on 11/19/2013 12:28:51 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Errant

I would be far easier to do it that way. Congress could abolish or more likely radically reduce the tax code and the IRS, and do it with simple majorities, not blocked by any 2/3rds votes, since the constitution is clear that tax law is strictly majority vote.

To start with, packing the House Ways and Means committee, that writes tax law, with conservatives. At the same time, its counterpart, the Senate Finance Committee, would take the ball from the House. They could even do some extra cutting and adjustments in the conference committee, before an up or down vote in both houses and off to the president.

This is a whole lot easier than changing the constitution.


56 posted on 11/19/2013 1:09:34 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (War on Terror news at rantburg.com)
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To: Wonder Warthog; All

THE FAIR TAX WOULD BE THE BIGGEST TRANSFER OF POWER FROM DC BACK TO THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY’S HISTORY.

The FairTax is replacement, not reform. It replaces federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes.

The FairTax brings jobs back to America by allowing companies to operate on our soil tax free rather than paying the current corporate income tax of 35 percent. Under the FairTax, various economists have predicted higher economic growth ranging from 7 to 14 percent over the current system, more jobs, and higher wages.

With the penalty for working harder and producing more removed, Americans are free to keep every dollar they earn, and a new era of economic growth and job creation is unleashed. Hidden taxes are history, Americans are able to save more, and businesses invest more. Capital formation, the real source of job creation and innovation, is facilitated. Gross domestic product (GDP) increases by an estimated 10.5 percent in the first year alone. The FairTax as proposed raises the economy’s capital stock by 42 percent, its labor supply by 4 percent, its output by 12 percent, and its real wage rate by 8 percent.

As U.S. companies and individuals repatriate, on a tax-free basis, income generated overseas, huge amounts of new capital flood into the United States. With such a huge capital supply, real interest rates remain low. Additionally, other international investors will seek to invest here to avoid taxes on income in their own countries, thereby further spurring the growth of our own economy.


57 posted on 11/19/2013 1:19:18 PM PST by redinIllinois (Pro-life, accountant, gun-totin' grandma - multi issue voter)
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To: redinIllinois
"The FairTax is replacement, not reform. It replaces federal income taxes including personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes."

Doesn't matter if it is "replacement" or "reform". No matter what vessel is used to generate revenue for the fedgov is there will be the equivalent of the IRS to oversee the collection of such revenue.

I'm actually quite in favor of the FairTax as a possibility, but it won't get rid of the IRS.

58 posted on 11/19/2013 2:17:05 PM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: canuck_conservative

Nope. No flat tax either. Watch the film Freedom to Facism by the late Aaron Russo.
Eliminate the income tax and the economy might start hopping and jumping.


59 posted on 11/19/2013 4:59:36 PM PST by SisterK (its a spiritual war)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The only fair tax is sales tax as it is consumer based. Property tax is not fair. Any form of income tax is not fair. Don’t nurture parasites.


60 posted on 11/19/2013 5:09:26 PM PST by SisterK (its a spiritual war)
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To: Errant; Man50D; Taxman; Principled; EternalVigilance; phil_will1; kevkrom; Bigun; PeteB570; FBD; ...

Sounds like a plan to me!

Repeal the 16th Amendment!

Replace the income tax with the FairTax!

Abolish the IRS!

http://www.fairtax.org


61 posted on 11/19/2013 9:16:02 PM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: central_va
Agree - NO INCOME TAXES AT ALL. Tariffs and a NRST plus shrinking FedGov™.

What is the difference between having a Federal Sales Tax and a Federal Income tax?

As far as I can see, there is no substantial difference between the two taxes. The only substantial difference that I can see between the two taxes is that one taxes you 10% of your income when you get paid and one taxes you `0% of your income when you spend it. Thus a flat 10% sales tax and a flat 10% income tax on everything would take exactly the same amount of money from you, but at different times.

Isn't that, right?

I suppose that the theoretical details of such a proposal would be important too, like what would taxed under a national sales tax. (For example, would food be exempt from the tax. That could be a big deal for many low-income people)

Beware though, the regressive nature of a national sales tax which would disproportionately harm low-income individuals as opposed to a progressive income tax which disproportionately takes from the rich would be very unpopular.

62 posted on 11/19/2013 9:46:32 PM PST by old republic
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To: Errant
Remember what I've said is wrong with our income tax system:

1. 30,000 tax lobbyists--HALF the lobbyists in Washington, DC--fighting for every scrap of a tax loophole. And you get political corruption on a huge scale over this.
2. The result is a tax code over 70,000 pages long so complex that it makes James Joyce's Finnegans Wake almost easy to read in comparison. Even the IRS can't figure out much of the tax code!
3. The sheer complexity means exorbitant yearly compliance costs, estimated by some economists to soon approach US$500 BILLION per year (and climbing fast in each subsequent year, especially with the imposition of Obamacare mandates through the tax code).
4. It also encourages the outsourcing of millions of jobs, thousands of factories, and hundreds of corporate headquarters for tax avoidance reasons. Care to explain why Apple manufactures its products in China, and why Google has to used that highly-complex and expensive Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich accounting scheme to lower its tax bill?
5. It results in (by some estimates) around US$15 TRILLION in American-owned liquid assets sitting in offshore financial centers and other foreign banks for tax avoidance reasons (care to explain all those "banks" in the Cayman Islands, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands, and so on? Or why Apple has 70% of its US$147 billion liquid asset reserve outside the USA?).
6. Government uses the tax code as a political instrument to favor or punish political constituencies as little as ONE taxpaying entity. The recent scandal using the IRS to target conservative 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) groups is clear proof of this.
7. Because the IRS needs to know intimate details of personal and business financial records in tax return filings, there are potentially serious issues with invasion of privacy. Care to explain why former Presidential candidate Mitt Romney's private tax returns ended up in the offices of Senator Harry Reid (D-NV)?
8. The IRS assumes you're guilty of tax evasion, and you end up having less rights than most common criminals!

Complete political and economic insanity. May the tax overhaul I mentioned in my tagline needs to be seriously considered.

63 posted on 11/19/2013 11:44:30 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: Errant

b to the friggin’ t!


64 posted on 11/20/2013 3:16:08 AM PST by Principled
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To: old republic
What is the difference between having a Federal Sales Tax and a Federal Income tax?

No offense but that is a really ignorant question. If my earnings are tax free I can invest, pay off personal debt, gamble do what ever tax free. Most of all I can save tax free in an account that is not controlled by Uncle Sam. Do you see the difference now? It's called freedom.

Now if you are retired you are probably against it, but the economic war and the youth of America needs to stop.

Plus tariffs promote domestic industry and job growth.

65 posted on 11/20/2013 4:03:31 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Taxman

I suggest that once a year the federal government send out exactly 50 bills. (One to each state). The size of the bill should be based on the latest census.

Let the states figure out how to collect it. Eventually, the most compassionate and economically ways to collect the tax would emerge.

Abolish the IRS.


66 posted on 11/20/2013 4:29:08 AM PST by wintertime
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To: central_va

What is NRST?


67 posted on 11/20/2013 4:41:28 AM PST by wintertime
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To: Taxman

That should be “the most compassionate and business friendly ways to collect it, would emerge.”


68 posted on 11/20/2013 4:48:48 AM PST by wintertime
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To: unixfox

“In other words, we need to build more prisons!”

VERY TRUE!!!


69 posted on 11/20/2013 5:31:57 AM PST by PLD
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To: wintertime

“What is NRST?”

The National Retail Sales Tax, or Fair Tax, is a way to take power back from the politicians and lobbyists by doing away with all the federal income taxes (personal, estate, gift, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes)

Take it from an accountant, most people can’t even imagine how monstrous and oppressive the IRS is, and how much the current tax code strangles our economy.

You said in another thread that you have homeschooled children and grandchildren - one of the biggest things you could do to help them grow up in a free and prosperous America is get rid of the income tax.

Herman Cain had a pick a tax plan, and the Fairtax won :)

Here’s a link to his page:

http://www.pickataxplanusa.org/


70 posted on 11/20/2013 9:43:25 AM PST by redinIllinois (Pro-life, accountant, gun-totin' grandma - multi issue voter)
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To: Taxman

Good idea, but somebody will be along to trash the fair tax saying that it will “take more IRS than ever to shut down black markets” etc.

They’re full of garbage and seem to like the idea of the Feds having access to every cent you make...


71 posted on 11/20/2013 2:20:01 PM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Little Ray

The only people who support the income tax and the IRS are statists, who do not believe in FReedom.

Their arguments against the FairTax are specious, and without merit.


72 posted on 11/21/2013 7:27:46 AM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: wintertime

Intriguing concept, but you’ll probably have difficulty selling the idea.


73 posted on 11/21/2013 7:35:39 AM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: central_va
No offense but that is a really ignorant question.

First, all questions are ignorant that's why they are asked. (Unless it's a rhetorical question.) Second, your argument relies on several assumptions that are not part of the original discussion. You assume that the sales tax law will allow you to do all of the things that you say, but until the provisions of the law actually exist. We don't know if you can do any of the things that you claim. You also won't get any tax break or write-offs so your sales tax could be worse than the current system. Less write-offs could result in less money for the taxpayer and thus less freedom. Your sales tax is only a better thing than your theoretical sales tax if your assumptions about it are true.

Secondly, a National Sales Tax may be unconstitutional, since it is a direct tax not based on the enumeration of the census. The 16th amendment arguably only allows the income tax to be levied without having to be based on the enumeration of the census.

74 posted on 11/21/2013 11:23:27 AM PST by old republic
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To: old republic

Only progressives defend the income tax at this point, so are you progressive?


75 posted on 11/21/2013 11:28:37 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
No offense but that is a really ignorant question. If my earnings are tax free I can invest, pay off personal debt, gamble do what ever tax free. Most of all I can save tax free in an account that is not controlled by Uncle Sam. Do you see the difference now? It's called freedom.

By the way, I just wanted to say thanks for the perspective. It was very informative. That's why I asked the question.

76 posted on 11/21/2013 11:31:00 AM PST by old republic
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To: Taxman

Bump to Dump
the IRS!


77 posted on 11/21/2013 9:43:59 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Sun

Backatcha!

http://www.fairtax.org


78 posted on 11/22/2013 2:33:16 PM PST by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: central_va
Only progressives defend the income tax at this point, so are you progressive?

No, but that is a straw man argument. Just because a person argues against a national sales tax doesn't mean that they support the Income Tax. What kind of a conservative supports a massive new sales Tax increase? How is THAT conservative?

At this point, I don't support either the income tax or the national sales Tax. Americans pay enough taxes already, don't they? The government needs to reduce its size and live within its means.

79 posted on 12/18/2013 10:17:49 AM PST by old republic
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To: old republic

There are only a few ways for the Feds to raise money: income tax, sales taxes and import duties. So If you are going to abolish sales and income taxes that leaves tariffs. We are in agreement


80 posted on 12/18/2013 1:52:52 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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