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Secondhand Smoke Gets in Your Rights
Townhall.com ^ | November 19, 2013 | Debra J. Saunders

Posted on 11/19/2013 1:19:52 PM PST by Kaslin

Berkeley, Calif., City Councilman Jesse Arreguin has recommended that the city ban smoking in single-family homes. Councilwoman Susan Wengraf, who supports an ordinance to ban smoking in multiunit dwellings, is appalled.

"The whole point is to protect people who live in multiunit buildings from secondhand smoke," Wengraf said. Locals have told her they find the notion of a ban in single-family homes scary. "I hope he wakes up and pulls it," she said.

Actually, I think Wengraf should want Arreguin's recommendation to stick around. After all, his proposal makes the multiunit ordinance seem reasonable.

Arreguin aide Anthony Sanchez tells me that the recommendation is really just a "footnote," "a non-actionable topic of future consideration."

Or call it the next logical step. Berkeley already has banned smoking outdoors -- in commercial districts, in parks and at bus stops, where nonsmokers are free to walk away from smokers or ask them to move. With that ordinance on top of California laws banning smoking in the workplace, at restaurants and in bars, have advocates of nonsmokers' rights determined that their work is done? Never!

The job is never done in the nanny state. Hence the Berkeley proposal, hardly the first in the Bay Area, to ban smoking in multiunit dwellings. Wengraf tells me that smoke can get into ventilation systems and spread through a building.

But what if it doesn't? What if you live in a building where secondhand smoke doesn't leach? There is no burden of proof that your smoke bothers others. If you smoke in an apartment, you're guilty.

Enter Arreguin, who fears that the multiunit ordinance would fall "disproportionately and unfairly on the backs of tenants." It's not fair. So if the city is going to tell renters what they can do in their own lodgings, he writes, it should pass a ban "in any dwelling (including single-family dwellings)." In deference to the secondhand smoke rationale, Arreguin suggests that the ban apply if a minor lives in the home, "a non-smoking elder (62 or older) is present" or any other "non-smoking lodger is present."

Walter Olson of the libertarian Cato Institute compares the Berkeley nanny ordinance to secondhand smoke itself: "They are seeping under our doors now to get into places where they're not wanted."

He faults "ever more ambitious smoking bans" that rework the definition of private space. "Now they're really just saying it doesn't matter if you have the consent of everyone in the room." Olson savored Arreguin's suggestion that 62-year-olds cannot consent to being near a smoker.

When I asked Cynthia Hallett of the Berkeley-based Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights whether she supports the Arreguin recommendation, she answered, "Right now, the policy trend is really for multiunit housing."

The left always likes to say that the government shouldn't tell people what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms. Yet here is progressive Berkeley about to pass a law that tells people they cannot smoke in their own bedrooms.

Of course, there is an exemption for medical marijuana. City Hall wouldn't dare to tell pot smokers not to exhale. After all, they have rights.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: California
KEYWORDS: antitobaccoscam; followthemoney; pufflist; scam; smokingiscool
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1 posted on 11/19/2013 1:19:52 PM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Busy-body a-holes.


2 posted on 11/19/2013 1:21:40 PM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Kaslin

I’m not a smoker, but if I lived in one of these apartments, I would be tempted to get a tobacco scented candle just to rile things up.


3 posted on 11/19/2013 1:22:35 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Kaslin
What about medicinal marijuana?


4 posted on 11/19/2013 1:24:40 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Dr. Sivana; Revolting cat!
I’m not a smoker, but if I lived in one of these apartments, I would be tempted to get a tobacco scented candle just to rile things up.

Opt for the bust of Winston Churchill that burns cigar scented incense...

5 posted on 11/19/2013 1:25:59 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Kaslin

Any new ordinance for more items to tax when the tobacco taxes fall even more?


6 posted on 11/19/2013 1:27:20 PM PST by Mark (DONATE to FR Now!)
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To: Kaslin

This is what it inevitably comes to in a Marxist State - the politburo considers it has the right to tell you what you can and cannot do in your own home.

Expect to see more and more of this sort of Liberal Fascism in the coming years.


7 posted on 11/19/2013 1:28:26 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: Kaslin

The Bay Area - where you can smoke a pole to your heart’s content, but don’t even THINK of lighting up a Marlboro!


8 posted on 11/19/2013 1:29:12 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I'm not anti-government, government's anti-me.)
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To: Kaslin

I would say “poison yourself” by way of cigarettes, if you want to - but don’t try poisoning me and trampling on my rights to NOT BE POISONED by some crazy or nutty smoker (or even a “sane smoker” - but that’s questionable if they exist, considering what they’re doing).


9 posted on 11/19/2013 1:30:02 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Kaslin

It’s not just in kooky California. My apartment community is trying to make us sign an addendem to our lease dealing with “second hand smoke”. I asked them, “okay, are you going to get rid of the charcoal grills scattered around for our use because of global warming?”

Our management team has no sense of humor. All a bunch of lib women. And in middle Tenn! Go figure.

My lawyer is looking into it because I don’t think they have the legal authority to stop a smoker in the leased unit from smoking. Many folks go on their porch or balcony and they say that’s not allowed either.

So they are trying to make the entire property smoke-free. I bet they don’t advertise that.

I’m going to use the internet sites that review these places to rake them over the coals.


10 posted on 11/19/2013 1:30:03 PM PST by Fledermaus (If we here in TN can't get rid of the worthless Lamar, it's over.)
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To: gundog

“Busy-body a-holes.”

I’ll second that and I don’t smoke.

I’ll add...Busy-body “LIBERAL” a-holes.


11 posted on 11/19/2013 1:30:38 PM PST by alice_in_bubbaland (When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes mandatory ... Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Star Traveler

The smoker has a right to, as you put it, “poison himself.” Your right as a nonsmoker is to either stand elsewhere or politely ask the smoker to do so.

It seems the nanny state has done the same thing to common courtesy that it has done to common sense.


12 posted on 11/19/2013 1:35:00 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I'm not anti-government, government's anti-me.)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

I quit 20+ years ago, but I’d fire up a Camel to blow smoke in these clowns’ faces.


13 posted on 11/19/2013 1:39:49 PM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Star Traveler

“but that’s questionable if they exist, considering what they’re doing).”

LOL-—the old broad brush painting.Looks like you bought the entire anti-smoking hysteria scenario.

There are still quite a few old smokers around,including me.

.


14 posted on 11/19/2013 1:41:28 PM PST by Mears
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To: Fledermaus

“My lawyer is looking into it because I don’t think they have the legal authority to stop a smoker in the leased unit from smoking.”

They have had the authority in other cases,even in the case of owners being prohibited from smoking in their units.

They use the health issue as a reason.

.


15 posted on 11/19/2013 1:45:52 PM PST by Mears
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To: Fledermaus

I have no problem with making a multi-unit residential building a no-smoking building inside and out.

But only if it starts out that way from the beginning and people know that up front when they buy/rent the unit.

Otherwise, it should take a 100% buy-in from all the condo owners to change the rules.

If a building is owned by ONE individual, the Owner should be able to make the call. It’s his/her property.


16 posted on 11/19/2013 1:48:10 PM PST by Lorianne (fedgov, taxporkmoney)
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To: Mears

Well, I don’t consider it sane to continually poison oneself - however, I don’t have any problem with that kind of insanity, as long as it’s kept to themselves.

When it involves others who don’t want to be poisoned, including me - then those smokers are trampling on my rights. It’s that simple.

My bottom line is to “Keep it to yourself and don’t involve me against my will in any way, shape or form.”


17 posted on 11/19/2013 1:53:29 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: ZirconEncrustedTweezers

It’s my right to stand exactly where I’m standing and tell the smoker to get his poisonous smoke out of my proximity. That smoker has exactly ZERO RIGHTS to have his poisonous fumes around me.


18 posted on 11/19/2013 1:57:35 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Lawdy, what moss covered bridge did you climb out from under?

Long time no see....

19 posted on 11/19/2013 1:58:22 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism" Vladimir Lenin)
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To: Star Traveler
When it involves others who don’t want to be poisoned, including me - then those smokers are trampling on my rights. It’s that simple.

Then don't drive your carbon-monoxide spewing car on my planet. Also, don't BBQ anything, or use toxic chemicals (paints, cleansers, etc.) anywhere on my planet. Don't use electricity unless you're generating it yourself with solar or wind (just don't kill my birds if you're using wind).

20 posted on 11/19/2013 2:00:04 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Cementjungle
Also, don't BBQ anything

Oh man, you are really asking for it now.

21 posted on 11/19/2013 2:02:38 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism" Vladimir Lenin)
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To: Kaslin

does this also mean marijuana?


22 posted on 11/19/2013 2:03:11 PM PST by bravo whiskey (We should not fear our government. Our government should fear us.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

LOL ... I’ve been here ... Just not posting a lot (doing other things, doncha know).


23 posted on 11/19/2013 2:03:42 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Cementjungle

Sorry ... I’m not an environmentalist. Kill the birds for all I care.

I just don’t want to be poisoned right in front of my face. If that smoker stands off about a hundred yards, then it will sufficiently dissipate before it gets to me.


24 posted on 11/19/2013 2:07:31 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
LOL....my favorite nemesis.

No hard feelings, doncha know....

25 posted on 11/19/2013 2:07:54 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism" Vladimir Lenin)
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To: Kaslin

but what about all the ‘medicinal marijuana’ users?

Buzzerkely, there ya go again..


26 posted on 11/19/2013 2:08:48 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

We all have fun on Free Republic ... :-)


27 posted on 11/19/2013 2:09:03 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: a fool in paradise

I think I’d want to go downscale, Phillies or Muniemakers, something old school, American and cheap.


28 posted on 11/19/2013 2:11:39 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: Las Vegas Ron

Oh ... As an addendum to my precious answer, I should say I’ve managed to squeeze out some extra time to post now and again because I got an iPad (which goes with me everywhere). Now any “down time” I have, I can just go to the iPad ... :-)


29 posted on 11/19/2013 2:13:33 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
If that smoker stands off about a hundred yards, then it will sufficiently dissipate before it gets to me.

A hundred yards?! Seriously... you have been completely brainwashed.

30 posted on 11/19/2013 2:17:05 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Cementjungle

You can do a scientific study - if you want - on the distance required to dissipate it sufficiently. But since it’s my face I’m talking about, I’m saying a hundred yards.


31 posted on 11/19/2013 2:23:32 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
But since it’s my face I’m talking about, I’m saying a hundred yards.

Six to ten inches would be sufficient. Less if there's a breeze. It's proven science, and the deniers and haters need to just suck it up and deal with it.

32 posted on 11/19/2013 2:30:46 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Star Traveler
I would say “poison yourself” by way of cigarettes, if you want to - but don’t try poisoning me and trampling on my rights to NOT BE POISONED by some crazy or nutty smoker

I would say the same thing about your choice of deodorant, or lack of, because both have as much deliterious effects on one's health as second hand smoke.......

But then once again, it's all about YOU..........

As a side note, your carbon producing vehicle offends me and makes me cough.

Your consumption of hamburgers will lead to your premature death and I'm going to have to help pay for your healthcare.

Your consumption of alcohol, if not you, the rest of the alcohol drinkers pose more of a threat to both you and I than all the second hand smoke would ever product........But then again, alcohol is still an acceptable product isn't it?

Finally, just about everything you say or do offends me so I want laws passed to protect myself against YOU........

33 posted on 11/19/2013 2:36:22 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (I don't call "911", in my house, I AM '911"....)
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To: Hot Tabasco

There ARE LAWS to protect people in the instances of harming people. For instance - another person drinking alcohol does not impact me directly. But if that person drinks and then is incapable of driving his vehicle and harms me or my property in an accident caused by him — you will find laws AGAINST that.

And as far as the car is concerned - I’ve already said that I’m not an environmentalist, so I don’t care if everyone on the planet decides to drive a car. I don’t say that this action of driving a car tramples on my rights one bit. Now, if you get drunk and mishandle that car, and damage me or my property - then you’ve got a problem.

As far as eating hamburgers, I don’t care who eats hamburgers. Even if it ends up costing more in medical payouts. All I’ll do, if I think I’m being adversely affected (monetarily speaking) - I’ll just go with an insurance company who excludes hamburger eaters or who makes them pay a higher premium.

However since I doubt the affect of hamburgers on the health insurance system - I think that’s just something where you’re grasping at straws.

AND THEN ... the issue is not about who is offended. It’s specifically not wanting to be directly poisoned against my will. Another person’s rights stop exactly where it tramples on another person’s rights.

“Not being offended” is not one of those rights. In fact, in the US Constitution, in the area of speech, there is NO RIGHT, to “not be offended”. In fact, the US Constitution protects OFFENSIVE SPEECH.

SO ... you’re barking up the wrong tree, if you’re insisting on “not being offended”.


34 posted on 11/19/2013 3:00:10 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Cementjungle

I would like to see those studies that say six to ten inches is sufficient. If that’s the case, then those medical facilities that have signs about not smoking next to their building - should not be able to enforce that if the person is ten inches away from the building ... LOL ...


35 posted on 11/19/2013 3:04:28 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

and your a conservative?


36 posted on 11/19/2013 3:23:38 PM PST by estrogen (voter fraud was huge)
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To: estrogen

Yep, a conservative who believes your rights stop right where mine begin.


37 posted on 11/19/2013 3:31:51 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
But if that person drinks and then is incapable of driving his vehicle and harms me or my property in an accident caused by him — you will find laws AGAINST that.

AFTER THE FACT!

There is absolutely no evidence of second hand smoke causing any health concerns for non smokers......NONE!

It’s specifically not wanting to be directly poisoned against my will.

I will repeat myself: There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that second hand smoke cause deadly health concerns to non smokers......NONE!

You're the one barking up the wrong tree dog!

But I digress, alcohol consumption has caused more deaths, more family break ups, more spousal abuse, more child abuse and more highway tragedies and more murders in a single year than second hand smoke has done in it's lifetime..........

I would suggest you take your own self righteousness and direct it towards a legitimate societal concern than focus on the smokers who have done everything in their power, suffered every indignity you pius bastards have thrown at us in order to not offend you.....

If you're so concerned about health and safety, then I would suggest you get your priorities straight bro........but then again, you like your beer and/or wine don't you? No sense in goring that oxen is there?


38 posted on 11/19/2013 3:32:37 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (I don't call "911", in my house, I AM '911"....)
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To: Kaslin; All
The Second-Hand Smoke Charade (1998)

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade

39 posted on 11/19/2013 4:42:13 PM PST by oxcart (Journalism [sic])
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To: Kaslin

I have found that the anti-smoking Nazis are most uncompromising when it comes to letting others smoke. They’re like the woman who protested a neighbor smoking in his own house 300 yards away because she could smell second hand smoke from inside her house. Either the woman has a nose better than a bloodhound or she suffers from some mental illness. I’m betting on the latter case. If I smoke in my own home or vehicle, it’s none of your damn business! Screw you nanny anti-smoking fascists.


40 posted on 11/19/2013 4:56:48 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Star Traveler

(or even a “sane smoker” - but that’s questionable if they exist, considering what they’re doing).

...based on your nastiness in your post, I take it you travel among the stars securely perched on a broomstick...


41 posted on 11/19/2013 6:05:14 PM PST by IrishBrigade
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To: IrishBrigade

Sorry ... wrong costume. On Halloween I dressed up as one of the Duck Dynasty ...


42 posted on 11/20/2013 5:13:16 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Yep, a conservative who believes your rights stop right where mine begin.

Too bad there are two sides to that equation. Your math is unbalanced.

43 posted on 11/20/2013 12:04:38 PM PST by MortMan (We've gone from ‘failure is not an option’ to ‘failure is not an obstacle’.)
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To: Star Traveler
AND THEN ... the issue is not about who is offended. It’s specifically not wanting to be directly poisoned against my will.

That's also what the Chemtrail people say!

44 posted on 11/20/2013 12:10:33 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Star Traveler

Poisoned? Did you ride the Drama Llama here?


45 posted on 11/20/2013 12:14:50 PM PST by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: Star Traveler; ZirconEncrustedTweezers; Tolerance Sucks Rocks
That smoker has exactly ZERO RIGHTS to have his poisonous fumes around me.

Oh lookie here - another nanny state loving cretin!

I hate to burst your simple minded bubble, but unless you own the property on which you are standing, our rights are exactly the same as anyone else's - except the owner. If you own it, you have the right to make the rules, if you don't own it, you only have the right to LEAVE.

46 posted on 11/20/2013 12:20:41 PM PST by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: Gabz

State or no-state — no one has any self-proclaimed rights, when those faux-rights trample all over my rights.

They can poison themselves all they want, but they don’t get to poison me.


47 posted on 11/20/2013 1:07:57 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: MortMan

No one’s rights gets to trump and/or erase another person’s rights - as individuals. Someone may say they have a right to swing their arms - but when the swinging of their arms ends up on my nose - then they can’t claim “privilege” because it’s “their right”.


48 posted on 11/20/2013 1:12:03 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

I would suggest that they develop the science behind that to bolster their case with the public and legislatively ... then ... :-)


49 posted on 11/20/2013 1:14:05 PM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
They've already done as much "science" as the second-hand smoke morons.

But I can sense your feeling of kinship, maybe you can be their Marshall Applewhite!

50 posted on 11/20/2013 1:16:32 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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