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24,000-Year-Old Body Is Kin to Both Europeans and American Indians
The New York Times ^ | 20 Nov 2013 | NICHOLAS WADE

Posted on 11/20/2013 2:33:43 PM PST by mandaladon

The genome of a young boy buried at Mal’ta near Lake Baikal in eastern Siberia some 24,000 years ago has turned out to hold two surprises for anthropologists. The first is that the boy’s DNA matches that of Western Europeans, showing that during the last Ice Age people from Europe had reached farther east across Eurasia than previously supposed. Though none of the Mal’ta boy’s skin or hair survive, his genes suggest he would have had brown hair, brown eyes and freckled skin.

The second surprise is that his DNA also matches a large proportion — some 25 percent — of the DNA of living Native Americans. The first people to arrive in the Americas have long been assumed to have descended from Siberian populations related to East Asians. It now seems that they may be a mixture between the Western Europeans who had reached Siberia and an East Asian population.

The Mal’ta boy was aged 3 to 4 and was buried under a stone slab wearing an ivory diadem, a bead necklace and a bird-shaped pendant. Elsewhere at the same site some 30 Venus figurines were found of the kind produced by the Upper Paleolithic cultures of Europe. The remains were excavated by Russian archaeologists over a 20-year period ending in 1958 and stored in museums in St. Petersburg.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; nativeamericans
This story just highlights the point that there is really no such thing as a "native" American. Some people arrived early, some later.
1 posted on 11/20/2013 2:33:43 PM PST by mandaladon
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To: mandaladon
“We estimate that 14 to 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population,” he and colleagues wrote in an article published Wednesday in the journal Nature.............Euro/American/Natives???
2 posted on 11/20/2013 2:36:37 PM PST by mandaladon (The truth about Benghazi is all I want)
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To: mandaladon

Yeah, but we were the first to put up fences! Hooray us!!!


3 posted on 11/20/2013 2:36:49 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: mandaladon

So Elizabeth Warren is a Native American!


4 posted on 11/20/2013 2:38:50 PM PST by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: mandaladon

No one is native to anyting. People aren’t crops. You only own the land you can defend. EVER!


5 posted on 11/20/2013 2:41:16 PM PST by The Toll
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To: mojito

Well since the cradle of humanity started in the fertile crescent which was located in Africa we’re all African-Americans.


6 posted on 11/20/2013 2:48:15 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: mandaladon
24,000-Year-Old Body Is Kin to Both Europeans and American Indians

Good Lord, leave Helen Thomas out of this!

7 posted on 11/20/2013 2:48:55 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: SkyDancer
Well since the cradle of humanity started in the fertile crescent which was located in Africa we’re all African-Americans.

Well then, Where's My Reparations?

8 posted on 11/20/2013 2:49:14 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp.)
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To: mandaladon

Next thing you know, it’ll turn out they were Republicans.


9 posted on 11/20/2013 2:52:16 PM PST by MUDDOG
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

stuff you two would be interested in...


10 posted on 11/20/2013 2:56:02 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: dfwgator

Has to apply for them. A guy I know says he a Lesbian. And it’s true. His folks were in the government and he was born there (alternate name is Mytilini). He can claim he’s a lesbian and prove it. Great conversation starter.


11 posted on 11/20/2013 2:56:51 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: mandaladon
.
...the boy’s DNA matches that of Western Europeans, showing that during the last Ice Age people from Europe had reached farther east across Eurasia than previously supposed.

Oh? People from eastern Asia couldn't have populated Europe?

I suspect it's more likely people from Europe traveled eastward to what's now Siberia, but have to wonder how sure we actually are Homo sapiens originated in Africa and reached Europe before various parts of Asia. Just because the oldest pre-hominid fossils we've found thus far were in Africa doesn't mean that's where we actually originated.

Does that sound too far-fetched? How much of what we believe we know today would have seemed equally ore more far-fetched 100 years ago?

12 posted on 11/20/2013 2:58:44 PM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: SkyDancer

I’ve always felt I was a lesbian, trapped in a man’s body..........


13 posted on 11/20/2013 3:02:49 PM PST by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: mandaladon

read


14 posted on 11/20/2013 3:03:03 PM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
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To: mandaladon

“This story just highlights the point that there is really no such thing as a “native” American.”

And that, LOL, some of them are descended from white imperialists. I mean, what was a Western European man doing in Asia anyway. Probably exploiting people of color, especially women. Oh the ignominy.


15 posted on 11/20/2013 3:29:43 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: SkyDancer

Cartman: “You guys, you know what? My grandma was Dutch-Irish, and my grandpa was lesbian, that makes me quarter lesbian!”

Stan Marsh: I can’t wait for Miss Ellen to see what a raging lesbian I am!
Cartman: I’m a bigger lesbian than you!
Stan Marsh: No, you’re a fatter lesbian than me!
Kyle Broflovski: Screw you, guys, I am King lesbian!


16 posted on 11/20/2013 3:38:29 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp.)
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To: dfwgator

Never heard/saw the show. But funny routine.


17 posted on 11/20/2013 3:41:49 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

TO #7; Thought they were talking about Larry King. Remember, King had the first interview with Moses. It was transcribed onto stone tablets near Mt. Sinai.

In the alternative, King isn’t really dead. He just looks that way.

Re Helen Thomas. She is the inspiration for the show “The Walking Dead”. Also, “Freddy Krueger” of “Friday the 13th”; the “Thing” in “The Thing”, and Dracula.

Helen Thomas in Romanian translates into “that which is dead, walks or flies at night, and sucks your blood, all the while screaming, “the Joosz, the Joosz”.

This woman is a one-source Sci-Fi show idea factory. Just imagine if they put her face on all those sharks in “Sharkanado”? Wouldn’t have needed much makeup, would they?


18 posted on 11/20/2013 4:09:57 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: mandaladon

Hey, I’m a Native Creepy-@$$ Cracker! (More free stuff, please.)


19 posted on 11/20/2013 4:12:20 PM PST by twister881
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To: Kevmo; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

Thanks Kevmo.

20 posted on 11/20/2013 4:16:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv; Religion Moderator; reaganaut

this should have been posted under “religion” and THEN “news/activism”

LOL

spit


21 posted on 11/20/2013 4:22:15 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Religion Moderator

it is just me but any witness to JESUS CHRIST is undeniable

because i am not the judge

LOL


22 posted on 11/20/2013 4:24:56 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: mandaladon

another study of the genome of “native Americans” I read recently suggests some of the migrations from Asia to the Americans were migrations of people (now long forgotten) who were of mixed East-Asian and European ancestry, as well as such people (mixed) who inter-married with people of east-Asian ancestry, in Asia and/or after migrating from Asia.


23 posted on 11/20/2013 4:49:31 PM PST by Wuli
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To: mandaladon
So, Europeans arrived in North America at precisely the same time as the "Native Americans." Oh, wait, they were the "Native Americans." lol

How, brother.

We walked, that's how.

24 posted on 11/20/2013 4:52:26 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: mandaladon

“This story just highlights the point that there is really no such thing as a “native” American. Some people arrived early, some later.”

Yeah, the Europeans wanted it, and they had better technology and a huge population, so they took it—as has always been done, throughout human history.

This time, though, the advent of the concept that taking people’s land is not good was nigh, so the Europeans allow the Indians to guilt trip and intimidate the snot out of them.

Never mind that the Indians were the same way; when we do it it’s baaaaaaad.

Manifest Destiny will rise again.


25 posted on 11/20/2013 5:32:10 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Wuli

“mixed East-Asian and European ancestry, as well as such people (mixed) who inter-married with people of east-Asian ancestry, in Asia and/or after migrating from Asia.”

The legendary hottitide of Asian chicks plays a role in the history of humanity. I bow my head.


26 posted on 11/20/2013 5:36:19 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Kevmo; TigersEye
"A European contribution to Native American ancestry could explain two longstanding puzzles about the people’s origins. One is that many ancient Native American skulls, including that of the well-known Kennewick man, look very different from those of the present day population. Another is that one of the five mitochondrial DNA lineages found in Native Americans, the lineage known as X, also occurs in Europeans. One explanation is that Europeans managed to cross the Atlantic in small boats some 20,000 years ago and joined the Native Americans from Siberia."

Vintage Skulls

"Paleoindian specialist Kenneth Tankersley believes archaeology is only beginning to scratch the surface of the debate. "Variation in the languages and DNA of American Indians not only suggests there were multiple migrations from a number of different homelands, but they imply that the first wave of people arrived in the Americas more than 30,000 years ago. This suggests archaeologists should be looking in older geological strata." "

27 posted on 11/20/2013 5:47:33 PM PST by blam
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To: SkyDancer
The fertile crescent consists of Mesopotamia, the Levant, and the Nile river drainage. Not really African.
28 posted on 11/20/2013 5:49:38 PM PST by kitchen (Even the walls have ears.)
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To: dsc

“The legendary hottitide of Asian chicks plays a role in the history of humanity. I bow my head.”

more likely it’s simply what happens when some generations of “migrants” settle in an area for a time, and an area that already has some folks who arrived at a different time, and by means both peaceful and otherwise “mixed marriages” occur, and some generations later some of THOSE folks are migrating somewhere else;

other than the more obvious physical differences between 100% “European” and 100% “East Asian” -

(a) the inter-marrying of “mixed people” over time was no different in Asia, particularly central Asia and northern East Asia than it was in Europe (what does it mean to be “French” - it means to be possibly part “native to Gaul”, part Roman, part Celt, part German (the “Franks from Frankfurt), part Scandanavian-Germanic (the Norse/Normans) as well as maybe some part “native” ‘Iberian’ and who knows what else;

and

(b) in Central Asia, north to south of it, you find tons of people - not just individuals but whole groups - where they clearly represent a mixture of European and Asian ancestry, and some of that mixing goes back farther than what history of it our historians know.


29 posted on 11/20/2013 5:52:10 PM PST by Wuli
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To: blam

DNA is going to reveal it all eventually. We’ll have interactive maps of human migration for at least the past 40,000 years. Kind of exciting and amazing.


30 posted on 11/20/2013 5:56:22 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: kitchen

If you look at a map of Africa you’ll see that it’s all part of Africa.


31 posted on 11/20/2013 5:57:43 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: SkyDancer

That part of the world is a s close to Asia as it is to Africa. It has never—to my knowledge—been considered part of Africa. Please correct me if I’m wrong.


32 posted on 11/20/2013 6:23:56 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: SkyDancer
Most is considered part of Asia.


33 posted on 11/20/2013 6:26:38 PM PST by kitchen (Even the walls have ears.)
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To: Pharmboy
"The Fertile Crescent is a crescent-shaped region containing the comparatively moist and fertile land of otherwise arid and semi-arid Western Asia, and the Nile Valley and Nile Delta of northeast Africa. The term was popularized by University of Chicago archaeologist James Henry Breasted. Having originated in the study of ancient history, the concept soon developed and today retains meanings in international geopolitics and diplomatic relations."

In current usage, the Fertile Crescent has a minimum extent and a maximum extent. All definitions include Mesopotamia, the land in and around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The modern-day countries with significant territory within the Fertile Crescent are Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, and Occupied Palestinian territories, besides the southeastern fringe of Turkey and the western fringe of Iran.

You'll notice that these countries are part of Africa. Egypt and the Nile are in the northern part of Africa. Hence .......

34 posted on 11/20/2013 6:31:12 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: kitchen

If you’ll back out from that close-in image and look at where those countries are located you’ll see that they’re in Africa, esp. Egypt.


35 posted on 11/20/2013 6:33:05 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: TigersEye
"DNA is going to reveal it all eventually. We’ll have interactive maps of human migration for at least the past 40,000 years. Kind of exciting and amazing."

Yes. Very much so.

Did you kinow about the new humans that were found in Siberia?

Denisovians

"Denisova hominins /dəˈniːsəvə/, or Denisovans, are Paleolithic-era members of a species of Homo or subspecies of Homo sapiens. In March 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a finger bone fragment of a juvenile female who lived about 41,000 years ago, found in the remote Denisova Cave in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, a cave which has also been inhabited by Neanderthals and modern humans.[1][2][3] Two teeth and a toe bone belonging to different members of the same population have since been reported.

Analysis of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of the finger bone showed it to be genetically distinct from the mtDNAs of Neanderthals and modern humans.[4] Subsequent study of the nuclear genome from this specimen suggests that this group shares a common origin with Neanderthals, that they ranged from Siberia to Southeast Asia, and that they lived among and interbred with the ancestors of some present-day modern humans, with up to 6% of the DNA of Melanesians and Australian Aborigines deriving from Denisovans.[5][6]
A comparison with the genome of a Neanderthal from the same cave revealed significant local interbreeding, with local Neanderthal DNA representing 17% of the Denisovan genome, while evidence was also detected of interbreeding with an as yet unidentified ancient human lineage.[7] Similar analysis of a toe bone discovered in 2011 is underway,[8] while analysis of DNA from two teeth found in different layers than the finger bone revealed an unexpected degree of mtDNA divergence among Denisovans.[

36 posted on 11/20/2013 6:43:22 PM PST by blam
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To: Wuli

“more likely it’s simply what happens”

Maybe, but...that’s not funny.


37 posted on 11/20/2013 7:09:56 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: SkyDancer
It has been revised. What had always (until recently, it appears) been referred to as "The Fertile Crescent," was Mesopotamia through Lebanon and Northern Israel. The addition of the Nile Valley of course brings it into Egypt.

But that is not the way it was taught when I was in school.

38 posted on 11/20/2013 7:20:20 PM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: blam
I think I did see a thread about that not long ago. Thanks for reminding me and posting the details again. I see yet another line discovered there in the statement "evidence was also detected of interbreeding with an as yet unidentified ancient human lineage."

Perhaps 40k years past was a conservative estimate of the detail we'll have in the future.

39 posted on 11/20/2013 8:28:37 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Pharmboy

Well no matter. It’s a fun thing to bring up every now and then. :)


40 posted on 11/20/2013 9:12:25 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: DannyTN

Right; the Predecessors just stuck to wiping out the Others...except rapable women. And vice-versa.

Personally, I prefer fences.


41 posted on 11/20/2013 9:23:11 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: dsc; SunkenCiv
Never mind that the Indians were the same way; when we do it it’s baaaaaaad.

Here's a map of where the tribes were in 1650. A hundred years later, the Cheyenne were in Arikara & Apache territory; the Sioux had moved into the Cheyenne territory. Plenty of other stirring around had taken place.

In another 50 years, the Sioux were finally successful in driving the Cheyenne out of the Sioux's "sacred Black Hills".

I had another map, with migration arrows & dates, showing the routes & timeline, but it disappeared; but this one will do to illustrate the point. Tribe migrations photo 1650tribesmap_zps4a2ce265.png

The Commanche had one hell of a deserved reputation for nastiness in the Texas-Mexico border region. Considering they had been forced out of the Powder River/Wind River area and systematically driven to that area over a 200 year period, one might understand why they decided to not be pushed any more. There mistake was trying to push back against Texans.

42 posted on 11/20/2013 9:47:14 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: mandaladon

If Mungo Man reached Australia by 40,000 BP, there is no reason that modern humans were moving eastwards and westwards out of Europe, Asia and Africa far earlier than previously expected.

I believe Northern American Indians had a genetic component provided by Solutrean European Clovis people, Euro-Asians from Siberia like this child, and far eastern Asians.

Further, I think it not improbable that South American Indians may have had an Africa and Polynesian component.


43 posted on 11/21/2013 12:46:28 AM PST by ZULU (Impeach that Bastard Barrack Hussein Obama)
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To: mandaladon

I had my DNA traced and the results included Persian (12%), from the Fertile Crescent, in addition to Northern European and Mediterranean.

Since I am from Massachusetts and my Senator is Elizabeth Warren, I now proclaim myself NATIVE AMERICAN! Where’s my restitution?


44 posted on 11/21/2013 4:30:22 AM PST by Makana (Old soldiers never die. They just read Free Republic.)
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To: ApplegateRanch
The Commanche had one hell of a deserved reputation for nastiness in the Texas-Mexico border region.

I had a Commanche girlfriend and can confirm their disposition when their ire is spurred. I've never seen anything like it before or since.

45 posted on 11/21/2013 7:34:06 AM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
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To: ApplegateRanch; bigheadfred

Thanks AGR. A tribesman here in Michigan told me a tribal story about the “rice wars” — his ancestors had lived in (I think it was) upstate NY, before it was NY. Some shaman had a vision or dream about what we know as “wild rice”, and got the whole tribe to move toward where he thought it would be found. Naturally there were already people living there, so there was a protracted, multi-generational war over the area, which was somewhere n of The Bridge.


46 posted on 11/22/2013 2:52:22 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: ApplegateRanch

“Their mistake was trying to push back against Texans.”

The Comanche were the reason that there were Texans to begin with. The Mexicans imported Americans as a buffer between the Comanches and themselves. Gave them land for free if they married a Mexican gal and converted to Catholicism (Nota bene, these were secular rules, not Church rules.)

Even so, the Texans were no match for the Comanche until after the Civil War, when they had repeating rifles and a big enough population. Quanah Parker was never defeated; they got him to surrender by rounding up the women and children and holding them prisoner in what is now Lawton, Oklahoma.

When I was a boy, I lived two doors down from one of Quanah’s grandsons.


47 posted on 11/22/2013 12:27:13 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

Interesting map. Thank you.


48 posted on 11/22/2013 12:28:13 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Standing Wolf; SunkenCiv; All

Just finished reading two books about Atilla the Hun (400s AD). Populations ranged back and forth across the great Eurasian plains over the centuries and millenia, depending on weather conditions and population growth among other things. My son had his 6 wisdom teeth removed and the dentist asked if he had Esquimo blood. His father was 1/16th Cree Indian (a Canadian tribe) The rest was northern European from Scotland, Prussia, and Wales. I think his father had visible traces of Neanderthal blood as well.


49 posted on 11/29/2013 3:44:48 PM PST by gleeaikin
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