Posted on 11/23/2013 7:26:11 PM PST by 11th_VA
York, PA ping.
There are Lutherans, and there are “Lutherans” (LINO).
You guys have stayed pretty serious about Christ.
The more serious a congregation of Christians, the less they dwell on denominational-specific stuff (and the more they live and preach a core gospel). This is seen across denominations. C. S. Lewis saw it. I see it today. Your sermons don’t look sectarian at all. They’d fly just fine in, say, Methodist or Baptist churches.
Folks like you in America are losing members because America itself is getting lukewarm about Christ. More evangelization is needed in general, and it’s going to be harder to sell a denomination versus a core gospel. I see my own role, like C. S. Lewis, as in selling a “mere Christianity.” Once someone is a believer, then he or she can look for a suitable congregation to worship at.
Not the doctrines, exactly, but the change of hymnals, Apostles’ Creed, the New “Bible”. Psalms have butchered ( take note of the 23rd Psalm and the 100th Psalm. Now we believe that Jesus was conceived by the Power of the Holy Ghost whoops, Holy Spirit, Originally Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost and Mary. We are all conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I don't know which "new hymnal" you're referring to. But in my opinion, as a conservative, confessional LCMS pastor, Lutheran Service Book (LSB, 2006) is the best hymnal we've had, and I grew up with TLH (1941) and have used LW (1982). LSB has way more good hymns to choose from, sound theologically and good musically, than we've ever had in English before.
Now I don't know how the hymns or liturgies are being chosen or introduced at your congregation, but that can make a difference in the way the hymnal is received. Most of the reports I hear from around the Synod is that LSB has been very well received, far better than how LW was received. LSB was well received at my parish, and we were old-line TLH.
Now when it comes to so-called "contemporary services," that's a different matter. By and large I think they stink.
I would not describe my LCMS as "moderate." I would say the conservative/confessional alliance (where I would fall) outnumbers the moderate/church growth alliance.
This isn’t just a Lutheran issue. The Baptist church where I currently go has similar issues. Now Baptists aren’t as liturgy driven as Lutherans (to state the glaringly obvious) but there are still traditions that see resistance to being changed. The old hymns versus the new hymns. Should there be a special music before or after the offering? How often do you do communion? Are overhead projectors a blasphemy? Etc. It makes God groan, I figure. The pastor jokes that people hate two things: to change and to stay the same.
Anyhow. If Christ is behind the changes (and adaptations are sometimes necessary for best ministry to changing populations) then they are good. Same goes for the traditions.
I don’t have the source documents so can’t comment on specifics. Similar things happen in other churches when, say, they switch from King James to something more modern. The people who fell in love with the old language are now tripped up and feel it’s unfair. People who are following what the words mean rather than exactly how they are put on paper, are not as offended. There is no easy answer. It should all be done in the spirit of Christ which is also a spirit of charity. And yes, I agree that we are all born again through the Holy Spirit. That is a universal acknowledgment with all serious Christians.
While it wouldn’t be technically untrue, it also sounds like making room for some weaseling down the line. For example, oh it was a natural conception but it had Holy Spirit power in it.
Nope, that won’t fly. The biblical gospel has Christ conceived by the Holy Spirit. Stick close by the bible and you do fine.
If you see posts of interest to Pennsylvanians, please ping me.
Thanks!
Thanks lightman for the heads up
As a pastor who has led services from TLH, LW, and LSB, I can tell you that congregations struggle mightily trying to read aloud the psalms in the KJV English of TLH. The 23rd Psalm would be the lone exception; all the rest come out muddled in congregational reading. It doesn’t work well. People have trouble getting the archaic words and phrasings off their tongue. On the other hand, the ESV English of LSB seems to work quite well for congregational reading.
“There are Lutherans, and there are “Lutherans” (LINO).
It puzzles me that some conservatives let the liberals of a group define that group when it is plain to see that there are also conservatives who claim the group. I mean, it shouldn’t really be this hard. It’s obvious there are conservative Lutherans and lib psuedo Lutherans. I know which ones I take my cues from concerning who are real Lutherans and what Lutherans believe.
Freegards
Ours does—It is supposed to be LCMS but you would never know. That is the way of the Lutheran Worship. I prefer the Service Book. It got rid of most of the objections people had to Lutheran Worship. Our church,Fairlawn Lutheran Church, in Ohio prints “with the power of” in their bulletin..which we read from. We are looking for another LCMS church that is more conservative and not an hour’s drive lol. Our original church, Grace Lutheran had to close (lousy pastor). We are in the English District which is liberal, also. Wish you could recommend some church we could join.
Ours does—It is supposed to be LCMS but you would never know. That is the way of the Lutheran Worship. I prefer the Service Book. It got rid of most of the objections people had to Lutheran Worship. Our church,Fairlawn Lutheran Church, in Ohio prints “with the power of” in their bulletin..which we read from. We are looking for another LCMS church that is more conservative and not an hour’s drive lol. Our original church, Grace Lutheran had to close (lousy pastor). We are in the English District which is liberal, also. Wish you could recommend some church we could join.
Find a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, (WELS). I cannot speak for others but we are Bible based and growing, albeit slowly.
City churches have been dying for decades. Most of these churches were built before widespread auto usage. When people got those wheels, they moved out of the city, leaving the city to those without reason to move and poor people who needed cheap housing and access to services. People who live in the suburbs do not want to drive into the city for church activities, especially in the evening.
New churches were built in the “burbs” and those have been the ones to prosper in the last 50 years.
But even most suburban churches are on the decline now.
Younger adults, even if they were brought up in the church, do not attend church in the numbers that older folks do.
Tomes have been written attempting to explain this and offering possible solutions.
A major sign this is happening is when they start installing women pastors and taking up the liberal causes and normalize and excuse sin (such as homosexuality). The works of man never last, so these secular dominated institutions masquerading as Christ's Church don't either.
You will note the vast majority of failing churches are liberal and have departed from the Word of God to the service of man. They have left their First Love (Jesus) and have adopted another (man, and the Devil's world).
This whole situation makes me SO very sad. I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran and I can NOT find a good, Old Fashioned Church in that denomination, anymore. Libs have driven me out of more than one church in my quest for finding a home.
Sorry. I do NOT believe that the Bible is a ‘living, breathing document’ open to interpretation. It’s God’s Word and HE has the last say in things, IMHO.
My Mom is now a Methodist, but frankly, the goof around too much in her church. I can’t stand all the glad-handing, children’s sermons (isn’t that what Sunday School is for? I used to teach!) and just general goofing around - I’m there to HEAR THE WORD, ask for forgiveness and try to keep it together from week to week! Yeesh! She knows this and doesn’t pester me to go to church with her anymore.
My Dad is a Biblical scholar who loves nothing more than the Jehova’s Witnesses showing up at his door to give them a run for their money, LOL!
(Sorry. This little rant has been long in coming!) :)
+1
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