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Japan Answers China’s Warnings Over Islands’ Airspace
NYT ^ | 11/25/2013 | Martin Fackler

Posted on 11/25/2013 8:54:46 AM PST by mojito

TOKYO — Matching China’s stern rhetoric with warnings of his own, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan vowed on Monday to defend his nation’s airspace after China declared an air defense zone over a disputed group of islands in the East China Sea.

Speaking in Parliament, Mr. Abe called China’s move an unacceptable effort to change the status quo with threats of force. He described it as a dangerous ratcheting up of tensions in the standoff over the uninhabited islands, which are administered by Japan but also claimed by China.

“We are determined to defend our country’s air and sea space,” Mr. Abe said. “The measures by the Chinese side have no validity whatsoever for Japan.”

China and Japan have been locked in an escalating war of words and nerves over the islands for more than a year. China’s declaration on Saturday that it would identify and possibly take military action against aircraft flying near the islands follows a long period of frequent dispatches of Chinese coast guard ships and aircraft to the area to challenge Japan’s control.

Mr. Abe’s effort to draw a line in the sand reflects his promises to lead his nation in standing up to China....

Japan has repeatedly signaled to China since Saturday that it has no intention of yielding control of airspace over the islands, known as the Senkaku in Japan and the Diaoyu in China. On Monday, the Japanese vice foreign minister, Akitaka Saiki, summoned China’s ambassador to Japan, Cheng Yonghua, to demand that China repeal the air defense zone, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Japan
KEYWORDS: abe; china; chinajapan; diaoyuislands; disputedislands; eastchinasea; senkakuislands; usally
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Little island, big crisis.
1 posted on 11/25/2013 8:54:47 AM PST by mojito
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To: mojito

Just great. A modern-day dogfight over the islands.

Sounds like China is trying to make it happen.

Oy.


2 posted on 11/25/2013 8:57:28 AM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle

Japan wants our troops off but our protective cover on.
Can’t have it both ways, unless we station at Guam.


3 posted on 11/25/2013 9:00:00 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Japan likes our troops. Okinwawans do not.


4 posted on 11/25/2013 9:02:41 AM PST by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: MeganC

The American footprint on the main islands has been reduced by more than half in the past 20-30 years.
I was there in the 50s and early 60s...


5 posted on 11/25/2013 9:13:51 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Japan wants our troops off but our protective cover on."

Well I think that Japan has just realized that Uncle Sam will not be there to protect then. Now, like Israel, Japan is on its own.

6 posted on 11/25/2013 9:19:39 AM PST by buckalfa (Tilting at Windmills)
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To: F15Eagle

In the previous Sino-Japanese War, the Chinese had no combat aircraft to speak of except for the Flying Tigers.

This time it will be different.


7 posted on 11/25/2013 9:28:31 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

True. But in the intervening years Japan has taken up their own defense and they’ve got a blue water navy again to make sure they can protect their interests in the SCS. Still, they need us just as a counterweight to China. And China’s increasing aggression signals that Beijing recognizes that Obama is not the least bit committed to the security of America’s allies.


8 posted on 11/25/2013 9:50:33 AM PST by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: mojito

The dumbest thing we’ve done in Asia was to insist that Japan stay an militarily impotent nation far too long after it made sense.


9 posted on 11/25/2013 9:51:57 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: mojito

Japan isn’t exactly an unarmed country.

141 ship navy and an air force with at least 350 fighter planes


10 posted on 11/25/2013 9:53:57 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: buckalfa
Japan will go nuc now that Obamo showed is hand re:Iran
This S4!t will get out of hand quickly, and it will be world wide.
Elections have consequences after all .....
God help us all.....
11 posted on 11/25/2013 9:57:47 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: MeganC

Every cent of the cost of our “umbrella” is paid for by the Japanese government. Now they also pay for their own...


12 posted on 11/25/2013 10:00:33 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: mojito

They almost destroyed china once... we will not stop them if there is another chance.


13 posted on 11/25/2013 11:25:02 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: Robe

An unleashed Japan would make mince meat out of China. I assume the free Republic China trade and leardership rino appologists will side with China.


14 posted on 11/25/2013 11:27:12 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: lavaroise

Japan’s Abe needs to tell China one word.

Nanking.


15 posted on 11/25/2013 2:22:15 PM PST by Texas resident
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To: LibLieSlayer
They almost destroyed china once... we will not stop them if there is another chance.

Actually that would be twice in modern history. Japan defeated China in the 1894 war, but the western powers intervened on China's behalf and kept Japan from swallowing up China. There have been at least a dozen wars or skirmishes between the two going back hundreds of years. Japan could probably beat China for the time being, but probably not in another 15 years or so.

16 posted on 11/25/2013 4:20:06 PM PST by roadcat
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To: GeronL
.


Moreover, the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy) successfully won it's "platinum" battle stars against the Russians in 1904 ...

and gave the U.S. Navy quite a run for it's money in the 1940s ...



A great read is Neptune's Inferno ... about the seesaw battle for the Solomon Islands ...

and the devastating accuracy of the IJN "Long Lance" torpedo ...



The ChiComs would last about two-three weeks in a naval engagement against Japan.



.
17 posted on 11/25/2013 4:48:38 PM PST by Patton@Bastogne (Swine Piss be upon the Sodmite Obama, and his Child-Rapist False Prophet Mohammed)
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To: lavaroise

China has nukes. One mushrooming fireball and ballgame over.


18 posted on 11/25/2013 4:50:27 PM PST by USAF80
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To: mojito

If the Japanese and National Chinese on Taiwan, ROC are smart (Taiwan president, Mark, are you reading this?), they should form a joint air defense system over this air space and the islands (which each also claim.

In case you didn’t know, Taiwan president Mark Ma (his English name), was a leader of the student protests against Japanese claims on the Taiu Tao Islands (the Chinese name for them). He was also a classmate of mine.

The Red Chinese Air Force is much larger than that of Japan and Taiwan, but together they could form a formidable force. Time to call Red China’s bluff before they obtain absolute air superiority, as well as ocean superiority (including anti-aircraft missiles on ships).

The US Navy is led by a coward, Secy of Navy Mabus (should change his name to “Maybe”) so Japan and Taiwan shouldn’t count on us to do anything other then surrender. Remember who our President and Secy of State are (The Neville Chamberlain twins of 2013).

Time for both countries to go “Nuclear” esp. in anti-aircraft/anti-missile systems, both ship and land-based. Red China is only a spit away from Quemoy Island so fast nuclear-armed missiles launched from there would hit the mainland in seconds, or a minute or two at the most. Now that is a deterrent, not sending out Lurch to say surrender.

If Japan and Taiwan get the Philippines to join them in a mutual air defense system, and open seas naval force, Red China will be facing opponents in three different places at the same time. Not a good option to have to deal with.

Add in Indonesia, Malaysia, and perhaps Australia, in a new SW Pacific alliance, and you have more balancing forces to offset those of Red China.

If we get a new administration in 2016, or even just a Republican Senate in 2014, then we will have a game-changer in Asia, and Red China knows it.

The problem is, Obama and Kerry just sold out the people of Iran and that region by putting forth an Neville Chamberlain appeasement policy in spades. Hezbullah loves it. Hamas loves it. The Moslem Brotherhood loves it. What is not to “love” if you’re an enemy of America?

Time for our one-time allies to do some shopping at “Nukes R Us”. Buy or develop two, get one free.


19 posted on 11/25/2013 4:54:42 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: elcid1970

To #7> The Republic of China DID have an air force during WW2. While it was small in comparison to that of the US and Japan, it was still a worthy fighting force.

They had the P-40’s of the Flying Tigers (which were largely flown by Americans), P-38 Lightnings (I knew a National General who flew them in combat), medium bombers (believe it was the B-25), cargo planes, etc.

I see references to them in WW2 documents at the National Archives all the time. Many of their pilots were trained in the US.

If anyone knows of a book on this topic, please post it here. Our allies fought bravely with what little they had, and the Chinese armies did well against a much superior Japanese military.

Also, Chinese civilians, at great risk to their lives, acted bravely to save downed American fliers and get them back to our lines, acted as plane spotters for oncoming Japanese air raids, and as target intelligence gatherers.

We should never forget the sacrifices that the Chinese people (and the Philippine civilians) made in the fight against Japanese imperialism (to the tune of several million deaths). I know that they have never forgotten the sacrifices that Americans and British/ANZAC troops made for them.


20 posted on 11/25/2013 5:03:06 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Patton@Bastogne
and gave the U.S. Navy quite a run for it's money in the 1940s ...

even though their top admirals knew it was a losing effort from the start if it wasn't a crippling blow on Dec 7

21 posted on 11/25/2013 5:11:09 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: USAF80

The Japanes can build overnight a nuke force the way the Saudis are contemplating it. And their missiles are much more precise. They also have a vast civil defense underground tunnel complex. They can rebuild in no time.


22 posted on 11/25/2013 5:33:48 PM PST by lavaroise
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To: lavaroise

The Japanese have all the components they need. They have a mature space program and can easily build the missiles they need for nukes. They have more than enough fissile material to build plenty of nukes, and probably are just waiting for a go-ahead to assemble already manufactured bomb components.

The one thing they’re short of is manpower, what with an aging population that is a fraction of the size of Chinas. They make up for that with scientific expertise and a robust self-defense capability (they don’t buy antique ships from former USSR states).


23 posted on 11/25/2013 6:04:23 PM PST by roadcat
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To: roadcat

I hope something happens to stop china because IMHO they are still a warlord society.


24 posted on 11/25/2013 6:20:42 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: lavaroise

I dunno about you, but the only China I’ll side with is the RoC.


25 posted on 11/25/2013 6:54:13 PM PST by 2CAVTrooper (Impeach 0bama)
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To: mojito

Ancient enemies, with deep, long-held animosities, and modern weapons. Never a good combination.


26 posted on 11/26/2013 9:06:01 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: roadcat; LibLieSlayer

They defeated them a few times through history.

Kublai Khan sent an invasion force from China against the Japanese as well, twice - in 1274 and 1281.

Typhoons - the “Kamikaze” Divine Wind destroyed much of the fleets both times, and those Mongol troops that did manage to land on the islands Tsushima and Iki butchered the Japanese who lived there.

There’s certainly no love between these two, for sure... Two ancient cultures with long memories, and even longer grudges.


27 posted on 11/26/2013 9:19:06 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

... but won’t it tip over?


28 posted on 11/26/2013 12:20:07 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Jet Jaguar; AmericanInTokyo; TigerLikesRooster; All

OH BOy why I get the feeling they going call in certain Big Lizard


29 posted on 11/26/2013 2:35:14 PM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: mojito

I bet Japan is feeling real good after watching Pres Homo abandon Israel.


30 posted on 11/26/2013 2:43:45 PM PST by my small voice (A biased media and an uneducated populace is the biggest threat to our nation.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

........lived there two years during my military service. I will never forget the so called snake lines where hundreds of Japanese would form 5-10 abreast and arm in arm in columns hundreds of feet long and just snake back and forth across the street sweeping anybody out of their way.

Unfortunately for them, in front of this American Naval Base, there were always many times more Japanese Riot Police than demonstrators and they were fun to watch because they were so well trained and equipped.

The majority of Japanese though by far supported the US presence and indeed the US generally. We had many GOOD Japanese friends there who we stayed in touch with for decades.


31 posted on 11/26/2013 2:51:16 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Cen-Tejas
In 1956 or 57, the “Zengakuran Students Federation” a Communist front organization, snaked danced past our house, across the street from the base at Yokohama. They spotted by dad's Packard, closed in on it and got it flipped over on its top. It was then set on fire.
As a parting gift, they painted a hammer and sickle on our front door.

Been there...

32 posted on 11/26/2013 3:25:36 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

We can’t station more troops on Guam, the island is dangerously close to capsizing.


33 posted on 11/26/2013 3:28:47 PM PST by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

You were a dozen odd years ahead of me. I was in Sasebo at Fleet Activities Base attached to ComServGru3.

I don’t remember any violence connected to the snake lines in Sasebo. My recollections are that these young Japanese were just having fun more than anything.


34 posted on 11/26/2013 3:44:01 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Cen-Tejas
My folks and I were in Japan 1951-1961.
I made 6 trips across the Pacific via MSTS (the Army's Navy.)

We lived in Sagamihara and Yokohama, returning stateside when I was 13 years old.

35 posted on 11/26/2013 4:35:35 PM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: lavaroise

My thoughts are they already have a few nukes. They have the brain power and the raw materials.

There is a book written by an Army intelligence officer right after WW2. He claims that the Japanese were closer than the Germans to developing a working nuke. (the reason we nuked them so fast) He says the lab was in Tokyo but moved to Korea out of reach of US bombers towards the end of the war.

They found evidence of a dismantled lab with traces of radiation where they thought it was. The scientist disappeared after the war and the story is they along with all the lab work was taken by the Russians. (reason why the Russian nuke program happened so quickly)

The Japanese confirmed that the scientists disappeared. They have been moot about the nuke development efforts though. The Russians never confirmed nor denied what was in the book.


36 posted on 11/26/2013 5:56:41 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Two tours at Yokota.


37 posted on 11/26/2013 5:57:52 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Cen-Tejas

One of my buddies lives in Yokohama. He says relations between the Japanese and the GIs are strained now. They are even thinking about a country wide curfew like the one in place in Korea. The GIs are the ones causing problems.


38 posted on 11/26/2013 6:04:12 PM PST by USAF80
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To: mojito

Akio Morita, founder of Sony and the iconic Walkman.

He was an engineer for the Navy during the war.

His task? The Japanese effort for a NUCLEAR BOMB.

My belief is they already have a few nukes and they’re probably lookin very seriously in secret about air to air refueling etc.

I think the also need to accelerate efforts for an official carrier and more subs, which can be more heavily automated.


39 posted on 11/26/2013 6:10:59 PM PST by gaijin
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To: gaijin

No secret about air to air refueling. They have been doing it for years. The have four 767 tankers in their inventory and prior to those they used to refuel off our tankers.


40 posted on 11/26/2013 6:19:14 PM PST by USAF80
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To: Texas resident

“Nanking.”

I think China very much remembers Nanking and invoking that could very well backfire on the Japanese.


41 posted on 11/26/2013 6:37:06 PM PST by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: USAF80

wow, in 69-71, we went anywhere and did anything and nothing ever happened that I can recall involving Japanese on American. The other way around FOR SURE!


42 posted on 11/26/2013 7:45:50 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: SevenofNine

43 posted on 11/26/2013 7:58:41 PM PST by JediJones (The #1 Must-see Filibuster of the Year: TEXAS TED AND THE CONSERVATIVE CRUZ-ADE)
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To: NFHale

Exactly my friend. The chicoms will not have a cake walk. We will fight the chicoms one day because they will see to it.


44 posted on 11/27/2013 3:12:38 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: USAF80

10 years an Army Brat.


45 posted on 11/27/2013 5:46:26 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: JediJones; Jet Jaguar; LUV W; SandRat; All

Now that funny LOL!


46 posted on 11/27/2013 9:49:45 AM PST by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: JediJones

Nice!


47 posted on 11/27/2013 11:05:36 AM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
If Japan and Taiwan get the Philippines to join them in a mutual air defense system, and open seas naval force, Red China will be facing opponents in three different places at the same time. Not a good option to have to deal with.

Add in Indonesia, Malaysia, and perhaps Australia, in a new SW Pacific alliance, and you have more balancing forces to offset those of Red China.

If this sort of alliance were likely, it would have happened decades ago when the US had a President like Ronald Reagan.

Memories of WWII are very long, and I believe in any conflict between China and Japan, most of Asia will stay neutral - but will secretly be hoping the Chinese put the hammer down on a nation they still don't like or trust.

48 posted on 11/27/2013 11:19:04 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: NFHale
There’s certainly no love between these two, for sure... Two ancient cultures with long memories, and even longer grudges.

During a couple of Chinese invasions of Japan, they took kidnapped Japanese women, tortured them, and tied them to the outside of Chinese ships to put fear into the Japanese during attacks on the Japanese islands. These conflicts easily go back almost fifteen hundred years, with all the nightmarish pain that war can inflict on people. Then there is the story of the Koreans, caught in the middle between the two warring nations. The Koreans were torn to pieces between them. The U.S.A. Is a really young nation, with no concept of animosity that goes back many centuries.

49 posted on 11/27/2013 12:00:16 PM PST by roadcat
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To: roadcat

“...The U.S.A. Is a really young nation, with no concept of animosity that goes back many centuries. ...”

We have enough animosity right here in our country with all of the hostile minority “cultures” clamoring for a piece of Whitey...

“...During a couple of Chinese invasions of Japan, they took kidnapped Japanese women, tortured them, ...”

Yes, and the Japs repaid that with Nanking... they were absolute animals in what they did in that city.

War brings out the repressed psychotic in some folks... and does it in spades.


50 posted on 11/27/2013 3:12:24 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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