Skip to comments.Why Soviets Were No Fans Of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Posted on 11/26/2013 7:40:01 AM PST by cunning_fish
MOSCOW AND BOSTON Lee Harvey Oswalds Russian was still shaky in 1961, when he was working as a factory metalworker in the provincial Soviet city of Minsk. It fell to a young student engineer named Stanislav Shushkevich to help him out.
"He was a simple martinet, and I found nothing in common with him. His Russian at that point was passable. We had about a dozen lessons in all, after that we had no contacts, Mr.Shushkevich told the Monitor in an interview. My main concern later on was that he would be given the task of fabricating equipment I had designed, because he was such a terrible metalworker.
"When I learned later on about Kennedy's murder, and that Oswald was involved, I was thunderstruck. I even wondered How could I have lost interest in this person? Maybe I don't understand people at all? " said Shushkevich, who later became the first president of independent Belarus.
As the US revisits that breathtaking moment on Nov. 22, 1963, attention is again turning to Oswalds time in the Soviet Union a 30-month period that ended a year before President John F. Kennedys assassination, a journey that left him with a Russian wife but disillusioned about socialism.
Although any evidence of panic in the Kremlin remains buried in classified Politburo archives, historians say there seems little doubt that Soviet leaders must have scrambled for explanations after Oswald was named as Kennedy's killer. The Kennedy assassination struck like a bolt from the blue, it shook up both sides, says Valery Garbuzov, deputy director of the official Institute of USA-Canada Studies in Moscow. We felt more than regret. We began a long process of dialogue, meetings, and negotiations. Things were not the same after th..
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
He was a loser who was a decent shot with a rifle...and that was all it took to change history.
The story that I got is that Oswald was a vagrant drunk who the cops in Minsk rolled up on a regular basis. I am pretty sure no one liked him in Minsk!
If the Russians were involved, would they admit it? LBJ was quoted as saying that they had gotten a free hit, and in the interests of avoiding nuclear war, he’d overlook that transgression.
Is an 88-yard shot with a rifle such a big deal?
A thought: as between LBJ and Oswald, which one exhibited more pathological behavior that would make him likely to kill JFK?
Seems to me, personally, to be a stretch to pin it on Oswald.
It seems to me not at all to be a stretch to pit in on LBJ. In fact...knowing what we do about LBJ (Caro’s biographies though deficient are excellent in this respect...), it is almost inconceivable that he DIDN’T kill Kennedy.
Once you make the logical jump that LBJ set the whole thing in motion and that he orchestrated the cover up, all of a sudden, the evidence/hearsay/disinformation all starts to make a lot more sense.
That’s my experience anyway.
Oswald comes off as your typical clueless liberal/commie. If you sent any of todays idealistic left-wingers to experience their socialist utopia firsthand, they would very quickly tire of it. This is why that silly "Occupy" movement so quickly lost steam from a few years back. Once these pampered youngsters learned what it was like to live in tents and have to share everything, they very quickly opted to go back to occupying the warm basements of their bourgeois parents.
Maybe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK but it didn't come from the Russians. Most likely it happened from within as Kennedy had many domestic enemies.
As for the Oswald killing, I don't see any conspiracy there at all. That was all Jack Ruby's personal initiative in my opinion. Ruby was always somewhat insecure and fantasized about being a famous hero. As he was familiar with most of the Dallas law enforcement (by way of his nightclub business) and on first name basis with the detective that was escorting Oswald to the armored car, it is not terribly surprising that Ruby was able to gain easy access to where Oswald was being transported. Of course, the Dallas PD was embarrassed over the incident and tried to make it seem like Ruby sneaked his way down there but it's easy to imagine that Ruby got a lot of "How ya doing Jacks!" as he made his way down to the basement that day.
He had the means (the rifle).
Information, the route of the motorcade was published days ahead of time showing it passing by his workplace.
Opportunity, had the 6th floor to himself and set up his sniper nest with time to spare.
Circumstance, Kennedy vetoed having the bullet proof bubble put up and was unable to move out of the way of the 3rd shot because of his back brace.
Of course not; give me a WW2 surplus bolt-action with a cheap scope on it, and I could duplicate that shot all day, as could millions of other Americans.
Try telling that to the conspiracy theorists, though...
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Great post. Especially impressed with your comment about the back brace. You’ve clearly done your research as not many people know about how that really contributed to the murder. Bravo.
I had a chance to look through Oswald’s book depository building window at his line of fire before they cordoned it off. It did NOT seem to be a difficult shot.
LBJ was a real character, but he was not a killer. His lack of killer instinct was what led to the indecisive back and forth in Vietnam. He crippled our air units and cost us thousands of aircraft losses by requiring visual ID to shoot down Vietnamese aircraft. Rolling Thunder was stupid, and the diametric opposite of the sustained obliteration of North Vietnamese facilities that would have caused them to sue for peace. LBJ was a talker, not a killer.
I toured Dealey Plaza in summer 2012, and spent about an hour sitting at Oswald’s (now glass enclosed) sniper perch. Yeah, he started shooting when Kennedy was just past him, and it was incredibly close. I believe that the final “kill shot” was made at just 88 yards, with the rifle zeroed in at 100 yards.
No one ever trusts a traitor.
Leftists cannot accept the fact that a Commie acted alone.
No. Especially not at a man sized target in a slow moving motorcade. Now, if it had been a running ground squirrel and the rifle had open sights, I'd be impressed.
I’m a skeptic and have had doubts about who and why. I’ve always suspected lbj could have been behind it as I believe he is a typical democrat, socialist, communist, fascist and would be capable of anything to gain power, much like the kennedys. There is a book out, “The Man Who Killed Kennedy” by Roger Stone. I’ve not read the book but have read excerpts and a revue, apprently Mr. Stone believes lbj had kennedy killed and makes a case for it and provides motive.I will read the book.
I have been on the sixth floor of the TSBD also, and the first thing that popped into my mind as I looked through the window is that it would not have been a difficult shot at all. And Oswald had a 4x scope! I believe that a person experienced with that type of rifle could have made the shot simply using the iron sights.
Yeah, when Oswald took his first shot (the one that was deflected by the tree branch in the way), he was looking almost straight down into Kennedy’s limo. It was literally a big fish in a small barrel.
A former business colleague of mine, who was extremely well-traveled and had lived in several different countries, once posited that wherever you go on this globe, “an a-hole is an a-hole is an a-hole”.
“If a guy is an a-hole here, that same type of guy is going to be an a-hole in Russia, in China, in India, anyplace you go. Certain basic things about people are the same the world over.”
So, he fit in well in Soviet society, is what you're saying...
Yes, indeed. I am reading that exact book, though I am generally familiar with Stone’s rendering, and am inclined to agree.
And I also agree, LBJ is just a flip side of the Kennedys themselves, and all of the mafiosos they consorted with. The killing of JFK was just one mobster taking out another. RFK’s Justice Department was just an offically organized crime unit, cutting out the competition. All of these individuals are sick, and corrupt.
And I bet there was a large one after the Reagan shooting.
Wherever you got that story from, I wouldn’t put much trust in it. LHO didn’t drink.
You know, that is an interesting thought.
Here is what I would say.
LBJ was in fact a coward. In the Caro biography, Means of Ascent, he details an anecdote of LBJ on a plane during WWII during something resembling a battle and LBJ was scared out of his wits. OF course later in his rendering of his heroics on the stump, he tells a rather different verison as you would expect. And...many have pointed out that it appears from photographic evidence that LBJ was hunkering down in his limo as soon as it hit Elm Street, ie, before the shooting began. I tend to believe that. Extreme brazenness and cowardice sort of go hand in hand.
So I do think that on one hand, you are on to something when you say that LBJ didn’t have the killer instinct. He was definitely at his core, a coward. Just a basic school yard bully. He was also a control freak (arguably a form of cowardice...) as you note. (He also had other reasons related to the JFK assassination to prolong the war incidentally).
So I think it is entirely possible to accept your points, while still accepting that LBJ is at the top of the org chart that killed Kennedy. It is also entirely possible that he didn’t exactly “give the order” beforehand, but, gave a wink and a nudge to the right people to set it in motion. Then when it happened, he went into control freak mode and micromanaged the cover up which took place in Texas (where he had long controlled) and in DC (which he controlled as of 12;31 on 11-22).
With regards to the idea that he had NEVER been a killer, well, maybe he hadn’t. But google a little on Mac Wallace and see what you think....
We got to the driveway and saw Hubert Humphrey and his wife Muriel who stopped and shook our hands. Another 10 yards and I stood right behind a gentleman who was being interviewed live by Mike Wallace. the gentleman was Governor Ronald Reagan. I continued up the driveway until I was stopped by SS agent. I figured we were caught out. He asked step to the curb.
Then the presidential limo that was to take Nixon to parade was moved in front of me 1 foot away and I had a good look inside. Then moved to the entrance of the Capital building and was told the entire inaugural party be coming out the door shortly. A pushy TV reporter tried to jostle me out of the way (Sam Donaldson) but I held my ground.
Has it happened it finally occurred to security that we weren't supposed to be there and they just pointed us down the driveway. Ten minutes Nixon drove by and gave us a big wave.
Point is at no time were we checked for weapons before or after we were discovered.
I've visited twice and the very first impression was "This wasn't as difficult as I had been led to believe".
Was your friend’s name Forrest Gump?
How Oswald shot him from behind, when the bullet obviously went through the front of his head is amazing. It is astounding that people believe he killed JFK when he was behind him.
JFK’s head was turned slightly to the left and around the curved road at the time of the final head shot? Why is it so hard to conjure that the exit wound would be right sided. Didn’t they find all the shell casings too up there on the 6th floor sniper nest?
Oswald was a Commie and a loser. He couldn’t make it in the real world so he did everything he could to injure it.
As a single shot, it isn't much.
For multiple shots, with the rifle he used, it becomes trickier.
So Oswald was a disillusioned socialist. So is Obama. So is Hillary. Those kind of people can be really dangerous.
He was the only employee to leave the building before his time was finished. Officer J D Tippit was then told to apprehend a man who was 160 pounds weight and about 5 foot 9 inches tall. He was white and about 30 years old. Tippit was then shot down as he drew his police car up to talk to a man, generally identified as Oswald.
The police vehicles then drove up fast with lights flashing and sirens blowing. Oswald had gone into a shoe store. The manager said he footled about, looking at shoes. He peered out of the shop window at the cars going by. Oswald then walked into a movie theatre and did not pay. He was observed and police informed.
It is very hard to understand Oswald's actions. Did he think there was some chance of bluffing his way out of the situation? These actions of Oswald do not seem to be the actions of the average Joe, who would be only too anxious to hear what was going on.
I was in Dallas some years ago, and went to Dealy Plaza, and the book depository, what surprized me the most, was what a small area that is. from noll, to building, less than a hundred yards.
Only for those who believe that being shot in the head in reality resembles what it looks like in the Movies.
What is seen in the Zapruder Film in 'front' of the President's head is the blood and brain matter coming out. If the bullet had been shot from the front, the blood and matter would have come out the back. Anyone who has any experience with shooting a gun knows that when a bullet strikes a soft material like the human body, it makes a small hole going in, and material is propelled out by the bullet when (and if) it exits.
But... those in his way are dead meat. Even his own mother.
So.... Holder modeled his DOJ after RFK's ?
but at least RFK’s justice department actually put away some actual bad guys. they did it because of RFK’s corruption, but, undeniably, they put away some bad guys.
holder is just a ghetto thug.
It’s refreshing seeing someone talking sense on this emotional issue.
And a noob! Welcome to FR.
The KGB considered Oswald to be an “imbecile”.
Not according to the locals in Minsk I talked to! I automatically assumed it was cheap vodka, but who knows?
The autopsy and many tests of that rifle and it's ammo lead to the conclusion that the wounds all came from behind and hit exactly where pictured and exited in the normal path with the expected type of damage one would expected from those shots. Whether Oswald worked for the CIA is still open, but he definitely did the shooting.
Well, I suspect they were pulling your chain, because Oswald was a well known teetotaler.