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Pope Francis takes veiled swipe at ‘progressive’ Democrats
The Washington Times ^ | 11-26-13 | Cheryl K. Chumley

Posted on 11/26/2013 11:22:48 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic

Pope Francis said Tuesday in his first apostolic exhortation that no matter how progressive-minded the world turns, the Catholic Church can never compromise on its “no abortion” rule — it’s a matter of human dignity.

“I want to be completely honest in this regard,” he said, Catholic News Service reported. “This is not something subject to alleged reforms or ‘modernizations.’ It is not ‘progressive’ to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life.”

The statement comes in sharp contrast to some in the political world, of mostly liberal and left-of-center progressive mind, who claim loyalty to the Catholic faith, yet refuse to denounce abortion as a matter of policy. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, one of the most visible examples of such politicos, has advocated for years for the rights of women to abort — to the point of even raising the hackles of one Catholic cardinal in September, who said the Democrat should quit taking Communion.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholic; francis; pelosi; pope; popefrancis; vatican
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1 posted on 11/26/2013 11:22:48 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: afraidfortherepublic; NYer; Salvation; narses

Ping


3 posted on 11/26/2013 11:23:52 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

veiled? sounds pretty direct to me.


4 posted on 11/26/2013 11:25:24 AM PST by jaydubya2
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To: afraidfortherepublic

The Pope nails one out of the park!


5 posted on 11/26/2013 11:29:32 AM PST by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

God Bless Pope Francis!


6 posted on 11/26/2013 11:32:52 AM PST by Gerish (Feed your faith and your doubts will starve to death.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Pope John Paul II asserts in Evangelium Vitae (#62), “No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.”
7 posted on 11/26/2013 11:33:44 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Catholic ping!


8 posted on 11/26/2013 11:57:21 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Unfortunately, he also rails against the "tyranny" of markets and unbridled capitalism. Would that be considered a "thinly veiled swipe" at conservative Republicans?
9 posted on 11/26/2013 12:05:11 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment. [Ludwig Von Mises])
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Jesus revealed the nature of human dignity.

Abortion (and all that leads up to it, I venture) is against human dignity.

Simple.


10 posted on 11/26/2013 12:08:59 PM PST by stanne
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To: BfloGuy

Considering the well known malfeasance of the leftists in Big Media ... that may very well be a “manufactured swipe” at conservative Republicans.

I think I’ll read what the man wrote; that should be more interesting that what a bunch of mediots wrote about what he wrote.


11 posted on 11/26/2013 12:13:59 PM PST by NorthMountain
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To: BfloGuy

No.

Unbridled capitalism is not capitalism. It’s capitalism with no morals.

The Church is not political and it does not operate in sound bites and headlines. It presumes that people will use judgment.

the preceding pope wrote Veritas in Caritas, a letter, Truth in Charity, wherein he explains the Church’s teaching on capitalism - that it is neither inherently good nor evil, but that it depends on moral behavior.

Surely you are not for cheating, lying and or stealing that some out of control business people partake in


12 posted on 11/26/2013 12:14:02 PM PST by stanne
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To: stanne

Thank you for correcting the misconception that many will be operating under.


13 posted on 11/26/2013 12:19:20 PM PST by verga (The devil is in the details)
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To: MeganC
The Pope nails one out of the park!

Metaphor mix of the week!

14 posted on 11/26/2013 12:20:52 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Amen!

Nor is it "progressive" to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America from a place of individual freedom into one where imperfect persons in government rule over "the People," whose Constitution is "the People's law to restrain those very "transformers."

In fact, that "fundamental transformation" puts the U. S. back into the same or worse "old world" philosophy from which its brave Founders had escaped!

So-called "progressives" have turned upside down the philosophy of America's Declaration of Independence and Constitution, documents whose unique idea was a revolutionary governmental arrangement of Creator over People over Government--a concept which changed the world and resulted in a place where oppressed people from all the world sought refuge and opportunity.

Deliberately, and over decades totaling more than a Century, so-called "progressives," substituting their own arrogance for wisdom, are now turning the great American experiment into a Government over People, substituting themselves for the "Creator," and leaving what the Declaration of Independence called "Divine Providence" and "the Supreme judge of the world" out of the picture entirely.

Now, America can return to the heap of failed civilizations who did the same.

15 posted on 11/26/2013 12:25:30 PM PST by loveliberty2
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To: BfloGuy

Unbridled capitalism is a liberal project. Which side are you on — and do you even know?


16 posted on 11/26/2013 12:35:00 PM PST by Romulus
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Maybe the new Pope IS still Catholic.


17 posted on 11/26/2013 12:36:00 PM PST by polymuser
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To: BfloGuy
In response to your question in No. 9, perhaps the words of Solzhenitsyn might amplify the Pope's meaning:

In the course of his research for "Solzhenitsyn: A Soul in Exile" (Harper Collins), Joseph Pearch traveled to Moscow to interview the writer. The excerpt below is from that interview:

Solzhenitsyn: "In different places over the years I have had to prove that socialism, which to many western thinkers is a sort of kingdom of justice, was in fact full of coercion, of bureaucratic greed and corruption and avarice, and consistent within itself that socialism cannot be implemented without the aid of coercion. Communist propaganda would sometimes include statements such as "we include almost all the commandments of the Gospel in our ideology". The difference is that the Gospel asks all this to be achieved through love, through self-limitation, but socialism only uses coercion. This is one point.

"Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."

Given the beliefs of America's Founders and the freedom of individual enterprise philosophy of their founding documents, the resulting society, in their view, would enjoy "ordered liberty"--not unrestrained by a sense of virtue and morality among the people, as is documented in their writings and speeches.

Just a thought. . . .

18 posted on 11/26/2013 12:37:08 PM PST by loveliberty2
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To: BfloGuy

The pope is a fiscal liberal and a social conservative. Same as a blue dog democrat.

Such a mix always results in more socialism.


19 posted on 11/26/2013 12:42:17 PM PST by what's up
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To: Revolting cat!

The Pope hits one out of the woods?


20 posted on 11/26/2013 12:44:01 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: stanne

If the church is not political why did the US bishops lobby for universal healthcare.


21 posted on 11/26/2013 12:44:42 PM PST by what's up
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To: MrB
>> The Pope hits one out of the woods?

What was he doing in the woods? Determining what the bear was up to?

22 posted on 11/26/2013 12:46:59 PM PST by NorthMountain
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To: MrB

The Pope hits one from under the bus!


23 posted on 11/26/2013 12:48:05 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: NorthMountain

And there was a sister following him with a bad habit.


24 posted on 11/26/2013 12:49:37 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Romulus
Pope Freancis:

“This defense of unborn life is closely linked to the defense of each and every other human right. It involves the conviction that a human being is always sacred and inviolable, in any situation and at every stage of development. Human beings are ends in themselves and never a means of resolving other problems. Once this conviction disappears, so do solid and lasting foundations for the defense of human rights, which would always be subject to the passing whims of the powers that be.”

Concerning capitalism, it is a Marxist word and construct, that we have incorrectly fallen into using, just like 'progressive' and 'liberal'. The Catholic Church has also succumbed to socialism's linguistic blitzkrieg. Only Marxists want to 'bridle' 'capitalism'. What they decry as capitalism is merely the natural order of things to the rest of us.

25 posted on 11/26/2013 12:50:50 PM PST by Praxeologue
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To: what's up
The pope is a fiscal liberal and a social conservative. Same as a blue dog democrat. Such a mix always results in more socialism.

Yep.

26 posted on 11/26/2013 12:51:27 PM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: what's up

And Amnesty.

Short answer: they are not acting within the rules of the Church when they do so.

Because the USCCB allows themselves to act politically.

I have actually written to them on occasion requesting that they read the Catechism and other documents of the Church, and to quit acting outside of what the Church teaches.

They don’t listen to me.

They are the first to say they can’t preach from the pulpit on matters of politics, whom to vote for, and no anti abortion talk, certainly no anti birth control rhetoric.

So they pick and choose.

and they’ll have to answer for it.

Same as McConnell will have to explain why he didn’t protect and defend the Constitution, working to preserve this country for God, after swearing on a Bible to God that he WOULD do so.


27 posted on 11/26/2013 12:56:52 PM PST by stanne
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To: what's up

The pope is a fiscal liberal?

From what source do you get your information?

It sounds like from a variation of school bus philosophy mixed with generational ignorant hatred.

Crack a book on the subject if you wish to opine.


28 posted on 11/26/2013 1:00:29 PM PST by stanne
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To: Partisan Gunslinger

pure bigotry, I assume.

Try stating a source for the information on the pope’s economic ideas, in his own words.

“Caritas in veritate” - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html


29 posted on 11/26/2013 1:04:05 PM PST by stanne
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To: MrB

Some traditional habits are very bad if you’re out in the woods trying to find a bear ... or avoid one ... or avoid what he left behind.


30 posted on 11/26/2013 1:05:00 PM PST by NorthMountain
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To: Kennard

Well, you are mistaken. The classical definition of liberal economics always included minimal regulation of free markets. This was understood as a more progressive, efficient, and scientific approach. The traditional conservative view was that established economic interests should be protected, to promote social stability. Most people calling themselves economic conservatives today would have found themselves solidly in the liberal camp 100 years ago. If heavily regulated markets seem unamerican, it’s mostly because America has always been a liberal project, with rare exceptions.


31 posted on 11/26/2013 1:12:58 PM PST by Romulus
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To: Romulus
The classical definition of liberal economics always included minimal regulation of free markets. This was understood as a more progressive, efficient, and scientific approach. The traditional conservative view was that established economic interests should be protected, to promote social stability. Most people calling themselves economic conservatives today would have found themselves solidly in the liberal camp 100 years ago. If heavily regulated markets seem unamerican, it’s mostly because America has always been a liberal project, with rare exceptions.

I agree. My observation was that the term "capitalist" is a Marxist concept. Classic liberals did not consider themselves "capitalists". Yes, today we would call classic liberals conservatives. Socialists stole the words "progressive" prior to WWI and "liberal" in the thirties as aphoristic fig leaves for their base intentions. When the Catholic church refers to "unbridled capitalism", "unfettered capitalism" and "progressivism", they demonstrate their need for a history lesson.

From Wikipedia:

The term capitalism, in its modern sense, is often attributed to Karl Marx. In his magnum opus Capital, Marx wrote of the "capitalist mode of production" and revealed its laws of functioning using a method of understanding today known as Marxism. However, Marx rarely used the term "capitalism", although it was used twice in the more political interpretations of his work, which were primarily authored by his collaborator Friedrich Engels.

32 posted on 11/26/2013 1:37:40 PM PST by Praxeologue
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To: stanne
Crack a book on the subject if you wish to opine

I crack lots of books and I'll opine when I want to, thanks.

The pope is a fiscal liberal? From what source do you get your information?

The source is his own mouth. He called for guaranteed health care...a socialist position.

He also railed against the "autonomy of the markets". Our markets are highly regulated and NOT automonous. If the Pope really cared for the poor, he would be calling for more capitalism, not less.

33 posted on 11/26/2013 2:04:30 PM PST by what's up
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To: Kennard

The Catholic Church has seen ideologies come and go. She doesn’t need history lessons from Whigs and neocons.


34 posted on 11/26/2013 2:21:40 PM PST by Romulus
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To: what's up
The pope is a fiscal liberal and a social conservative

Parochialism. Applying American MSM invented categories and euphemisms to the Pope is, besides playing the MSM's propaganda game, like applying the same buzzwords to some Amazonian tribe.

35 posted on 11/26/2013 2:24:26 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: stanne
Try stating a source for the information on the pope’s economic ideas, in his own words.

Sure:

Pope Francis:

“Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world,” he wrote. “This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.”

He's speaking of Reaganesque lower tax rates. I see lower tax rates as bringing greater justice, the alternative is slavery. The pope doesn't see it that way. He has the liberal view on it.

36 posted on 11/26/2013 2:34:04 PM PST by Partisan Gunslinger
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To: Revolting cat!
Applying American MSM invented categories and euphemisms to the Pope is

I read the Pope's own words. He often mentions capitalism in a negative sense.

His recent statement did it again; he mentioned "the absolute autonomy of markets" as a cause for poverty.

Well, the markets are today highly regulated by socialist governments. They are in no way "autonomous" as the Pope claims. Why not decry the burdensome regulation as something which is blocking help for the poor? That would be a big help for those who are struggling.

37 posted on 11/26/2013 2:41:45 PM PST by what's up
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To: Partisan Gunslinger
I hadn't read the "trickle down" comment.

Man, that is so blatant.

38 posted on 11/26/2013 2:46:31 PM PST by what's up
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To: Partisan Gunslinger

will inevitably bring about justice... outside of the US, as being too much to hope for.

That makes him economically liberal?

No.


39 posted on 11/26/2013 2:55:05 PM PST by stanne
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To: what's up

“He called for guaranteed health care...a socialist position.

He also railed against the “autonomy of the markets”. Our markets are highly regulated and NOT automonous. If the Pope really cared for the poor, he would be calling for more capitalism, not less.”

Where?, When?


40 posted on 11/26/2013 2:56:29 PM PST by stanne
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To: Partisan Gunslinger

Any chance we could get a source and date on that?


41 posted on 11/26/2013 2:59:40 PM PST by stanne
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To: what's up

Any chance we could get a source and date on that?


42 posted on 11/26/2013 2:59:55 PM PST by stanne
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To: stanne
"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems or, for that matter, to any problems," he wrote.
43 posted on 11/26/2013 3:10:57 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up

This explains nothing regarding your claim.

It certainly doesn’t answer my request for citation.


44 posted on 11/26/2013 3:21:55 PM PST by stanne
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To: stanne
It shows that the Pope believes our over regulated, socialist controlled markets are "autonomous".

He chooses to decry "autonomy" rather than the heavy hand of Gov't which is what is blocking prosperity for the poor.

The quote is from the newly released Papal statement, the same one in which he bashes "trickle down" economics.

45 posted on 11/26/2013 3:30:58 PM PST by what's up
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To: loveliberty2
"Untouched by the breath of God, unrestricted by human conscience, both capitalism and socialism are repulsive."

Religion is not necessary for capitalism and that's not a slam at religion which I respect deeply. Socialism is a system designed by man. Capitalism is not -- it is simply that which exists when free men meet each other to make mutually beneficial exchanges of their property.

Nothing more; nothing less. The esteemed Solzhenitsyn notwithstanding.

46 posted on 11/26/2013 3:33:43 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment. [Ludwig Von Mises])
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To: what's up

It shows nothing without a citation.


47 posted on 11/26/2013 3:33:52 PM PST by stanne
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To: Romulus
Unbridled capitalism is a liberal project.

What is "unbridled" capitalism and which liberals do you speak of -- the classical liberals or the modern-day socialists who call themselves liberals?

If it's the latter, I should love to hear your reasoning.

Which side are you on — and do you even know?

Well, I do know that markets are not tyrannical. If they are true markets, they can't be.

48 posted on 11/26/2013 3:40:23 PM PST by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment. [Ludwig Von Mises])
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To: stanne
without a citation.

What are you talking about.

I cited the source which is what you asked for.

49 posted on 11/26/2013 3:49:23 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up

The newly released papal statement? What is the name of it. I what publication is it found in its entirety, in context?


50 posted on 11/26/2013 4:17:44 PM PST by stanne
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