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How to Win Thanksgiving: A Holiday Guide to Arguing With Right-Wing Relatives
Salon ^ | Thursday, November 28, 2013 | Alex Pareene

Posted on 11/28/2013 8:48:49 AM PST by kristinn

Your guide to dealing with relatives with awful views this long weekend. A special "Obamacare train wreck" edition

Once again, Americans everywhere are spending a wonderful day with their families, being thankful for things, and also probably getting trapped wherever they are for days because of storms and mass nationwide flight delays and cancellations. But while family is a wonderful thing, sometimes people in your family hold very different beliefs than you do about important things like race relations and Islam. Once again, I am here with your guide to arguing intelligently, or at least coherently, with your right-wing relations. (Here are my guides from 2012 and 2011.)

As always, I can’t stress this enough: The first rule of arguing with your family members on holidays is don’t argue with your family members on holidays, because let’s all just try to enjoy one another’s company for once, without screaming and name-calling and so on. Many of your older relatives are lied to and scared by evil people on the radio and television, and that is not their fault. It’s usually best to change the subject, or go outside for some fresh air/cigarettes. But if you must, here are some reasonable things to say.

I have a feeling most of the discussions around the table this year will focus on healthcare, so that is what most of this year’s guide is about.

Obamacare is a disaster

I mean, not really, so far. It is still too early to tell, and most Americans believe that the law hasn’t affected them at all. Many of those Americans could be incorrect, as the law has changed how insurance companies treat all of us, regardless of whether we purchase individual insurance or receive it through an employer, but right now “Obamacare” doesn’t mean much to most people. (If you want to run through the benefits, there’s the insurance for young adults through their parents thing, and the preexisting conditions thing, lots of preventative care things are now “free,” and some prescription drugs are cheaper for people on Medicare.)

But yes, the law has its flaws, in its construction and its execution, but so far those flaws aren’t really hurting very many people.

The broken website proves that Obamacare won’t work

The broken website proves that federal IT contracting is a huge, broken mess, but anyone who has ever read anything about federal IT contracting before this already knew that. (So, like, 10 people knew that.) The broken website makes a fine metaphor, but if it’s up and running soon, it won’t have affected all that many people, or doomed the law. And if it’s not fixed soon, well, then there will be some trouble, possibly major trouble, with the individual insurance marketplace and the mandate, but the goal was always to get some uninsured people insured right away, and all the rest of them insured over the course of a few years, so small initial enrollment numbers probably won’t be the disaster everyone is claiming it will be. Basically, wait for the new year before saying HealthCare.gov killed Obamacare.

Canceled insurance policies prove that Obamacare has already failed

So, yes, Obama lied when he said “you can keep your plan,” or at least he omitted all these caveats that he probably assumed were implied in his statement, but the actual villain here, as always, is insurance companies. (No one likes insurance companies, right? Here you can feel free to agree that a healthcare reform bill that relies so heavily on private insurance companies is inherently flawed, it’s too bad we can’t just have Medicare for everyone!) The insurance companies first sold most of these people crappy plans that covered nothing and would’ve left them open to massive bills had they faced any serious medical problem. The insurance companies then decided that, instead of changing their plans to meet the higher standards of coverage required under the ACA, they would cancel all of them. The companies then sent everyone letters saying that their plans had been canceled, and in those letters they attempted to sell more expensive plans to people, without pointing out that many of those people are now eligible for subsidies or able to choose more affordable (and better) plans through other insurers. These “cancellation letters” are primarily sneaky, misleading sales pitches. Multiple state insurance regulators have criticized and fined insurance companies for sending them.

It’s true that millions of people who had currently been in the individual insurance market now face disruption and change, and everyone hates change, but the vast majority of those people were getting ripped off, and lots and lots of them now qualify for better coverage at an affordable rate. Those stories are less “news-worthy” than stories of people facing “rate shock,” though, and so they are less often mentioned on the news.

It’s sort of moot, though, because now insurance companies will be allowed to continue selling those deeply crappy plans to people, though they will have to send everyone a letter explaining how crappy they are.

Obamacare is a violation of religious liberty because Hobby Lobby has to pay for contraception

OK, well, first things first: Are corporations people? Can private, for-profit corporations be said to have a religious faith? A corporation’s founders, its owners, its board of directors or its shareholders all are welcome to practice any religion they choose without government interference, but how does a corporation worship? The entire point of corporations is that they’re separate legal entities from the individuals who make up the corporations — otherwise, limited liability wouldn’t be a thing — and while corporate “free speech” is at least defensible in the sense that corporations can “speak,” there’s no precedent for saying for-profit corporations practice religion.

SNIP


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: holidaypropaganda; mammonism; obamacare; obamacarepropaganda; salon; thanksgiving
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More at the source link...if you have the stomach for it...or need a belly laugh...
1 posted on 11/28/2013 8:48:49 AM PST by kristinn
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To: kristinn; MestaMachine; onyx; GraceG; MeganC
A Bit of Sarah Palin's Advice mixed with MestaMachine on how to deal with that situation.

“Yes, and if some so-called “progressive” member of the family brings up Obama’s Thanksgiving table talking points, then they should...”

be told to leave and escorted to the door.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3095863/posts

2 posted on 11/28/2013 8:52:03 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: kristinn

I think that the democrats need a 55 gallon drum of lipstick for this pig.


3 posted on 11/28/2013 8:52:21 AM PST by fhayek
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To: kristinn

If I had a lib relative trying to argue Obamacare with me on Thanksgiving, I’d give him a ‘turkey-baster enema’.


4 posted on 11/28/2013 8:53:05 AM PST by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: kristinn

Heard some of this yesterday. Do these asshats really think that folks will be doing this? They are really losing it. I also saw(I think somewhere on FR) that the nannie bloomers MAIGgots also have a guide to persuading your errant relatives to give up their evil guns during your Thanksgiving political discussions. These asshats know no shame.


5 posted on 11/28/2013 8:54:12 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: kristinn
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
6 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:03 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: KC_Lion

I didn’t invite any lefties to our Thanksgiving Dinner. They don’t celebrate the day, when smoking their pot under the bridge, or taking government bribes.


7 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:13 AM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: kristinn
I mean, not really, so far. It is still too early to tell, and most Americans believe that the law hasn’t affected them at all. Many of those Americans could be incorrect, as the law has changed how insurance companies treat all of us, regardless of whether we purchase individual insurance or receive it through an employer, but right now “Obamacare” doesn’t mean much to most people. (If you want to run through the benefits, there’s the insurance for young adults through their parents thing, and the preexisting conditions thing, lots of preventative care things are now “free,” and some prescription drugs are cheaper for people on Medicare.) But yes, the law has its flaws, in its construction and its execution, but so far those flaws aren’t really hurting very many people.

Other than having their insurance cancelled by the millions, being forced into far more expensive plans with worse benefits, not having their preferred doctors available on the new plans, and... Oh, right, and a massive expansion of people sponging off the taxpayers.

8 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:15 AM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: kristinn; All

ask the democrats :

Why do you trust government?

ask them that in front of everyone at the dinner table.

and also :

why is it so cold on Thanksgiving when your news media and your government have been yelling “global warming” for 30 years? still trust gov and the news media?


9 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:24 AM PST by Democrat_media (Obama ordered IRS to rig 2012 election and must resign)
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To: kristinn

This piece could more accurately be entitled “Defending the Indefensible.”


10 posted on 11/28/2013 8:55:49 AM PST by IronJack (=)
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To: kristinn

Salon still publishing?


11 posted on 11/28/2013 8:56:34 AM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: kristinn
I do not argue with anyone on any HOLIDAY,it sure would not be a conservative if I did..I find that the ones that like to argue are the filthy democrats..Like my son-in-law and his NEW AGE FAMILY..the creeps that voted for the Muslim Communist..
12 posted on 11/28/2013 8:56:48 AM PST by PLD
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To: rktman

I read something at the Huffington Post yesterday that said this was a really bad idea.


13 posted on 11/28/2013 8:56:54 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: kristinn

I had a belly laugh just reading the headline. I don’t need to read the article.


14 posted on 11/28/2013 8:57:00 AM PST by Undecided 2012
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To: kristinn

Well, so far, it looks like the responses are “It’s somebody else’s fault” and “It’s really not that bad”. Those are always winning arguments.


15 posted on 11/28/2013 8:57:15 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: kristinn

This is a great example of the Obama Minions trying, in vain, to polish turds.


16 posted on 11/28/2013 8:57:16 AM PST by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.......)
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To: kristinn

Oh man I sure do hope that I encounter someone stupid enough to attempt these stalking points.


17 posted on 11/28/2013 8:57:20 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: kristinn
" So, yes, Obama lied when he said “you can keep your plan,” or at least he omitted all these caveats that he probably assumed were implied in his statement, but the actual villain here, as always, is insurance companies. (No one likes insurance companies, right? Here you can feel free to agree that a healthcare reform bill that relies so heavily on private insurance companies is inherently flawed, it’s too bad we can’t just have Medicare for everyone!) "

Bingo! Single Payer (a nice-sounding name for Government Heath Care) is their dream

18 posted on 11/28/2013 8:58:59 AM PST by Mr. K
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To: kristinn

I do not allow left-wing marxist trash into my home voluntarily under any circumstance...I don’t care who they are.


19 posted on 11/28/2013 8:59:43 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: kristinn

When I finally realized that I had little in common with my liberal relatives I stopped associating with them. Last year when my cousin came out of the closest it was the last straw. No liberals at my Thanksgiving this year.


20 posted on 11/28/2013 8:59:58 AM PST by erod (I'm a Chicagoan till Chicago ends...)
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To: kristinn

The libs can shovel this drivel, while I shovel the mashed potatoes.

Happy Thanksgiving, kristinn.

Time for more White House freeps soon, methinks.


21 posted on 11/28/2013 9:00:12 AM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: kristinn

Is this from the Onion?

I give this a 10 on the honking hoot scale!


22 posted on 11/28/2013 9:01:37 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: kristinn

I told my two liberal relatives that if they start with this Obamacare is the best thing crap.....Stay home! I’d don’t want to spoil the Thanksgiving feast with a fight... Of course they’re coming... Have you ever known a liberal turn down anything free?


23 posted on 11/28/2013 9:03:32 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: exit82

How explain the Left’s love affair with Islam?

IMO they share a common enemy: Christ Jesus.


24 posted on 11/28/2013 9:03:43 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: kristinn

lol

One of the talking points actually says “ YES,OBAMA LIED BUT...”


25 posted on 11/28/2013 9:04:55 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: kristinn

“How to harangue the few remaining people in your life who cherish Liberty.”


26 posted on 11/28/2013 9:06:10 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: elcid1970

They sure do.

Battle of Vienna 1673—340 years ago.

Looks like they are spoiling for another lesson.

Hey, Abdul, here—have a croissant.


27 posted on 11/28/2013 9:06:38 AM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: KC_Lion

“Yes, and if some so-called “progressive” member of the family brings up Obama’s Thanksgiving table talking points, then they should...”
be told to leave and escorted to the door.”

I would add that they should have their teeth knocked out and then be thrown out the door! I have had enough of these people and their BS! Today I have a zero tolerance policy. If they open their mouths, I will shut them and they will be eating through a straw for 3 months! Basta!! Enough!!


28 posted on 11/28/2013 9:07:06 AM PST by Batman11 (Obama is not American.. he has no clue what it is to be American.)
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To: kristinn

It is setting up straw man arguments. Not getting to the real meat of the arguments. Typical liberal thinking.


29 posted on 11/28/2013 9:08:23 AM PST by BRL
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To: kristinn

It will be interesting to see whether there is an uptick in domestic violence today over previous years.


30 posted on 11/28/2013 9:08:31 AM PST by TomGuy (.)
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To: icwhatudo
One of the talking points actually says “ YES,OBAMA LIED BUT...”

Forty years ago, if you said that with Nixon's name, liberal heads around the table would explode.

31 posted on 11/28/2013 9:09:21 AM PST by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: kristinn

Liberalism is a mental disease. Cure the disease in 2014.


32 posted on 11/28/2013 9:10:08 AM PST by ExTexasRedhead
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To: kristinn
Simply tell them that, thanks to Obamacare, it is more likely that their inheritance will now have to be spent on higher premiums and deductibles that your insurance USED to cover.

IOW....if you support Obama......

 photo willy.png

33 posted on 11/28/2013 9:10:09 AM PST by digger48
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To: KC_Lion

only a liberal would start an argument about politics at a family thanksgiving dinner...no class..


34 posted on 11/28/2013 9:11:58 AM PST by goat granny
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To: icwhatudo

I love that one too!

And “everyone hates insurance companies, right?”

Well if they hate insurance companies just wait until they see Government Health Care.


35 posted on 11/28/2013 9:12:31 AM PST by Mr. K
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To: cripplecreek

Ask them how that preventive care is “free”. If I slug Tom and take his cash and give it to Jerry, did Jerry really receive “free” money? Didn’t Tom have to earn that money? When the government takes money from a taxpayer to pay a physician to treat someone else, is that person receiving “free” healthcare? Didn’t the taxpayer have to earn that money? And when they tell a physician that she can only charge $250 for a $500 procedure, didn’t the government just steal $250 from the physician? The procedure still “cost” $500, but the Democrats just stole $250 to buy a vote. There is no such thing as free healthcare or “reduced pricing” healthcare. Healthcare costs what it costs. It’s just a matter of whether the money goes to the healthcare providers or the Democrat party.


36 posted on 11/28/2013 9:12:43 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: kristinn

I am the one who is going to bring up Obamacare today and I’m going to harp on it and proclaim it as DISASTER.
They can kick me out if they want.
Geez folks lets go on offensive. This is a perfect opportunity to wake our liberal family members up!


37 posted on 11/28/2013 9:13:55 AM PST by weston (As far as I'm concerned, it's Christ or nothing!)
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To: kristinn

My family raised us with manners. We never discuss politics or religion at ‘mixed’ family gatherings. Sometimes I discuss politics with them away from the table, but we just respectfully disagree. I can’t believe the people wanting a frikkin’ confrontation at a time of reflection and giving thanks and gratitude for our bountiful blessings.


38 posted on 11/28/2013 9:14:30 AM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: Batman11

I feel the same way. I don’t talk to libs, family or not. I’m happier that way.


39 posted on 11/28/2013 9:14:33 AM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: goat granny

only a liberal would start an argument about politics at a family thanksgiving dinner...no class..
__________________________________________________________

Exactly.


40 posted on 11/28/2013 9:15:18 AM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: kristinn
What a great way to test Obamacare, when the liberal is at the hospital, getting a size 12 boot removed from their lower GI.

/johnny

41 posted on 11/28/2013 9:15:38 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: kristinn

I love how all the libs are tying themselves into intellectual knots declaring Obama didn’t lie about Obamacare. Keep it up guys..it is amusing.


42 posted on 11/28/2013 9:17:31 AM PST by driftless2
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To: cripplecreek

LOL! No doubt. “FOOD FIGHT!!!!”


43 posted on 11/28/2013 9:17:46 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: kristinn

just proves that liberals are losing the argument. they actually need cheat sheets full of half truths and distortions in order to fight for their beliefs. Conservatives just open their eyes and explain the real world.


44 posted on 11/28/2013 9:18:09 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: kristinn
Only a liberal would think about a political argument during a family event.

Clearly, they are afraid.... they still want to pretend their Emperor still has clothes.

45 posted on 11/28/2013 9:19:19 AM PST by Volunteer (Though I know that the hypnotized never lie, do ya? - The Who)
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To: kristinn

Once again, compelling evidence that modern liberalism has a deep immaturity at its core.


46 posted on 11/28/2013 9:20:20 AM PST by Ted Grant
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To: kristinn

I am predicting an uptick in family violence today.


47 posted on 11/28/2013 9:21:55 AM PST by hadaclueonce (Because Brawndo's got electrolytes. Because Ethanol has Big Corn Lobby)
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To: kristinn
Put fingers in your ears while shouting 'Shut up' and "You're stupid!", repeat in the assurance that your lord and godking Brak loves you.
/ snerk
48 posted on 11/28/2013 9:23:15 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: kristinn

My sister-in-law had a framed picture of Obama in her home. She worked on “proofreading” textbooks for Pearson.

She is far, far away.


49 posted on 11/28/2013 9:27:30 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: kristinn
 photo ObamaCareTurkey_zpsa911c192.jpg
50 posted on 11/28/2013 9:28:54 AM PST by HotHunt
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