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China Scrambles Jets as US and Japan Enter Air Zone
AP via Telegraph ^ | Friday, November 29, 2013

Posted on 11/29/2013 6:22:47 AM PST by kristinn

Chinese state media say China has sent two fighter planes to investigate flights by a dozen U.S. and Japanese planes in its newly established maritime air defence zone over the East China Sea.

It is thought the incident is separate to China's announcement that it would carry out regular patrols in its air zone.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Japan; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: adiz; china; japan; republicofkorea; scramble; waronterror
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We still owe the ChiComs for the EP-3 takedown twelve years ago.
1 posted on 11/29/2013 6:22:47 AM PST by kristinn
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To: kristinn

Note to America.

Bring back American factories, and stop supporting this regime so darn extensively.

Buy American.


2 posted on 11/29/2013 6:28:40 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: kristinn

Free Trade™ the gift that keeps on giving.


3 posted on 11/29/2013 6:33:46 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

RE: Bring back American factories, and stop supporting this regime so darn extensively.

And how exactly do we do that short of outlawing establishing American owned factories overseas?


4 posted on 11/29/2013 6:41:53 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: central_va

What’s wrong with liberty?


5 posted on 11/29/2013 6:43:35 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Are you arguing in favor of force or choice?


6 posted on 11/29/2013 6:43:54 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: SeekAndFind

Fascism?


7 posted on 11/29/2013 6:44:37 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

I am arguing in favor of bringing back American jobs.

How we do that is certainly up to everyone, but we have sold out American businesses.

In the meanwhile we have racked up $17 TRILLION DEBT, and growing. Debt.

Debt. American debt.

We need to make things right here.

Bring back American jobs. Now.


8 posted on 11/29/2013 6:46:29 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Hey Johnny One-Note. Your comments have nothing to do with the subject at hand.


9 posted on 11/29/2013 6:49:53 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is simply not in our national interest to offshore so much technology production—especially to potential adversaries. All thought the Cold War, we had very strict laws about technology export and realized the need for an industrial base. After the Cold War, we got complacent, greedy, and stupid—with emphasis on the stupid.


10 posted on 11/29/2013 6:52:18 AM PST by rbg81
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To: SVTCobra03

Sure they do.

China is becoming a manufacturing powerhouse. A lot of that manufacturing is Chinese exports right back to America.

So China gets stronger, and stronger, and stronger.

America meanwhile is 17 trillion dollars and growing, in debt.

And importing everything. Becoming weaker.

America needs to stop offshoring our industry. It is now about national security.

Build stuff, and buy stuff, from America.


11 posted on 11/29/2013 6:55:03 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: SVTCobra03

He is truly tedious. Don’t feed the trolls.


12 posted on 11/29/2013 6:58:04 AM PST by Teacher317 (Obama is failing faster than I can lower my expectations.)
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To: kristinn
Don't worry, the man who managed the wind down of Iraq and Afghanistan, the revolution in Egypt, the fiasco in Benghazi, the red line in Syria, the man whose signal domestic achievement is Obamacare, has all this under control. There is no need to worry about the world's largest nation, a nuclear nation, the second largest industrial power on earth, America's largest creditor, flexing its muscles in its own backyard which is all the way across the Pacific from America, because Obama is not.

No, there is absolutely no danger that this could spin out of control and erupt into nuclear war.


13 posted on 11/29/2013 7:06:51 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: SeekAndFind

Sure we can boycott China, but that will not bring those jobs back to America.

The manufacturers will merely seek out another third world country that pays it’s workers little or nothing, while avoiding our $11.00 minimum wage and Union demands.

The way to bring back America is to stop paying people for not working. Sure that sounds harsh, but people are simply not going to work if they can sit home and get paid for doing nothing.


14 posted on 11/29/2013 7:20:27 AM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: rbg81

RE: It is simply not in our national interest to offshore so much technology production—especially to potential adversaries.

So, I guess there ought to be a law BANNING the Intels and Microsofts of this country from offshoring their products overseas then... (Microsoft has a HUGE development center in China, it could be that some of the MSFT products you and I use are developed there ).

Look, TSMC ( Taiwan Semicondictor Manufacturing Corp. ) is one of America’s chip making fab source, do we write a law BANNING chip making by American companies in Taiwan? ( Remember, they TRADE with China )


15 posted on 11/29/2013 7:22:12 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Cringing Negativism Network; 1010RD
You are quite right in your analysis and in your remedies.

One caveat, the hollowing out of American manufacturing and many American industries which we might define as "service" industries has proceeded much as Obamacare proceeds, as a method of wealth transfer on a massive scale. What we are doing is impoverishing some parts of America, primarily blue-collar skilled workers by shipping their high paid, value-added jobs to places like China and increasingly to India, while we enrich the stakeholders in multinational companies. They profit because they pay lower wages and receive tax advantages for sending jobs overseas.

Meanwhile, the Fed pumps hundreds of billions into the economy which finds its way primarily into the stock market and inflates the value of the stock held by these stakeholders at a rate faster certainly than inflation.

The impoverished workers do receive cheaper goods from China through Walmart etc. but the game has long played out and is now only being sustained by the Fed and by the fact that the dollar is still the world's reserve currency. That too is coming to an end.

There are, of course, countervailing benefits coming from increased world trade but they are outweighed by the disadvantages America faces in its higher costs due to higher wages, regulations, especially environmental regulations, and it's disincentivized tax system. Our recent experiments with crony capitalism and the extension of the military-industrial complex into the whole of the American economy means that, increasingly, our resources and assets are being diverted into politically correct enterprises rather than those which bring wealth home from a mercantile world.


16 posted on 11/29/2013 7:24:25 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: 1010RD

Running a trade deficit with a Communist country IS THE OPPOSITE OF LIBERTY. It is stupidity.


17 posted on 11/29/2013 7:25:20 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeekAndFind
And how exactly do we do that short of outlawing establishing American owned factories overseas?

Tariffs.

18 posted on 11/29/2013 7:26:00 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SVTCobra03

Being beholding to ChiComs has EVRYTHING to do with the subject.


19 posted on 11/29/2013 7:26:55 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeekAndFind

We should. The sun would still rise in the morning, but a lot of other potential problems would be solved.

The export of our technical and industrial base is kicking us in the a$$ in a thousand ways, but its possible to go through life ignoring it. One day we won’t be able to ignore it any more—probably after we lose our Pacific fleet.


20 posted on 11/29/2013 7:27:25 AM PST by rbg81
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To: rbg81
It is simply not in our national interest to offshore so much technology production—especially to potential adversaries. All thought the Cold War, we had very strict laws about technology export and realized the need for an industrial base. After the Cold War, we got complacent, greedy, and stupid—with emphasis on the stupid.

Agree.

21 posted on 11/29/2013 7:28:16 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: rbg81

RE: We should. The sun would still rise in the morning, but a lot of other potential problems would be solved.

Well, I hope you will be happy paying several times more for the products you use today because that is essentially going to happen when we write a law banning off shoring of American products.


22 posted on 11/29/2013 7:30:18 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: nathanbedford

We are running out of time. At some point the Dragon will throw down. When the fist container ship goes down the Free Trade GloBULL BS ends. I hope I see it - soon. I will be ROTFLOL when the inevitable happens.


23 posted on 11/29/2013 7:33:12 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Again for possible penetration, tariff is not a four letter word.


24 posted on 11/29/2013 7:34:32 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

I agree with you.

People, wake up,


25 posted on 11/29/2013 7:37:15 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Oh, the todays of green molding sand, grit under your nails, "feeds and speeds" - even glass scales on a Bridgeport knee-mill was sexy. Very tearful here.

Moving on to 5-axis (and beyond) machining, that CNC stuff and their cutting speeds around the curves - very smooth as blades through water can easily make bubbles ... very bad.

Just pause, however, and ask "Just where is the workforce, a trained workforce, to populate these "returned" factories? And just who will be training these people?

Just askin' - as the seed corn has been eaten, and as with shipping your backlog, you only get to do that once.

There is no going back.

26 posted on 11/29/2013 7:48:04 AM PST by jamaksin
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To: nathanbedford

Very well said.

This so called “free” trade has also virtually ruined many communities and entire small towns. I’ve seen this myself first hand. We have areas FULL of closed down factories and businesses that stand as monuments to this insane and failed trade policy.

People here that would have otherwise worked are now in the ranks of the FSA(Free Shit Army). ‘Food Stamp’ use has increased by 20-35% since the year 2000 in ours and surrounding counties. Most of the younger people move away immediately after high school. My wife and I would have too, if we hadn’t managed to find good paying jobs here, which are very few. Our ‘social safety net’ has prevented outrage over this by the victims of it as the welfare benefits have masked the pain and reality of it all. If it weren’t for that, we would have had people in the streets with torches and pitchforks demanding a stop to it long ago.


27 posted on 11/29/2013 7:50:23 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: central_va

RE: Again for possible penetration, tariff is not a four letter word.

Been there done that. See here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/642710/posts

About 10 years ago, Bush Jr. Imposed tariffs on IMPORTED STEEL to protect steel making jobs in America ( who found it hard to compete against steel makers overseas ).

According to Prof. Walter Williams, looking in hindsight:

It is estimated that it costs Americans something like $800,000 a year to save a $55,000-a-year job. Does that make any kind of sense whatsoever? It doesn’t. It would be better — I would much rather see Congress enact an Aid to Dependant Steel Workers Act or an Aid to Dependant Textile Workers Act and give them — let’s say in the case of steel people — give them $75,000. Say, “Just go lay out on the beach and enjoy yourself.” That would be cheaper than $800,000 to save one job.

It also disrupted the businesses steel USING companies in the USA making it difficult for THEM to compete. RESULT: They had to pay higher prices for the steel they used ( and had to layoff workers as well ).

Guess what happened in the end? The policy was so disastrous that the tariff was REPEALED after over a year.


28 posted on 11/29/2013 7:51:22 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: kristinn

So far, one comment about the article.
I’d like to hear a little feed back on the scrambled jets.


29 posted on 11/29/2013 8:02:19 AM PST by RS_Rider (I hate Illinois Nazis)
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To: SeekAndFind

Since 90% of manufacturing is done by NON UNION workers, the tariffs mostly protect average Americans that make meager wages. The cost saving of using foreign slave labor is not passed on the consumer. It is a lose-lose situation for the middle and lower economic people in the USA. Every factory that closes creates more socialists and weakens the US and is a tragedy. Free Traitors are worse then the most leftist Commie, more damaging the Reid, Pelosi and Obama. They are backstabbing economic terrorists.


30 posted on 11/29/2013 8:05:39 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: KoRn
Free Traders = Economic terrorists

"Free Trade" has done more damage to the USA than any other enemy.

31 posted on 11/29/2013 8:08:05 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

People as you’re shopping in the coming month:

Randomly pick 5 things to check, when you are in (any) store, in (any) town, shopping for anything.

Pick that item up, turn it over, and look at where it was made.

That the the nation, you are supporting with your purchase.


32 posted on 11/29/2013 8:10:58 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: KoRn
Communities built around small to medium sized manufacturing plants are the heart of wealth creation in American.. Every factory that shuts down devastates that community just as bad as if the Luftwaffe came over and bombed the place....

Granted a lot of manufacturing towns are democrat hotbeds. But there where a lot of republicans mixed in. You go to what's left of a region with no manufacturing supporting them and they are ALL SOCIALSTS now, on the dole. Sad. I hate "Free Trade".

33 posted on 11/29/2013 8:14:33 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: kristinn
Chinese state media say China has sent two fighter planes to investigate flights by a dozen U.S. and Japanese planes in its newly established maritime air defence zone over the East China Sea.

I didn't know the AP was officially charged with recognizing China's claim.

34 posted on 11/29/2013 8:14:48 AM PST by Carry_Okie ("Single payer" is Medicaid for all; they'll pull the sheet over your head, and then take your house.)
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To: SeekAndFind
And how exactly do we do that short of outlawing establishing American owned factories overseas?

Institute a massive layoff in American regulatory agencies.

35 posted on 11/29/2013 8:16:00 AM PST by Carry_Okie ("Single payer" is Medicaid for all; they'll pull the sheet over your head, and then take your house.)
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To: jamaksin
Just pause, however, and ask "Just where is the workforce, a trained workforce, to populate these "returned" factories? And just who will be training these people?

The military is our best labor pool. Factories made to be exported to third world countries can be brought back. It is a matter of willingness.

There is no going back.

There is going forward.

36 posted on 11/29/2013 8:21:14 AM PST by Carry_Okie ("Single payer" is Medicaid for all; they'll pull the sheet over your head, and then take your house.)
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To: Carry_Okie

How exactly does a pair of Chinese fighters scare away 10 Japanese fighters and 2 American surveillance planes?


37 posted on 11/29/2013 8:31:11 AM PST by Tai_Chung
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Get the FedGov out of our way and we’ll be able to compete again.


38 posted on 11/29/2013 8:32:48 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: Tai_Chung
How exactly does a pair of Chinese fighters scare away 10 Japanese fighters and 2 American surveillance planes?

All of these actions are representative of capabilities with a sublayer indicating tactical capabilities. None of that will be transparent.

39 posted on 11/29/2013 9:02:25 AM PST by Carry_Okie ("Single payer" is Medicaid for all; they'll pull the sheet over your head, and then take your house.)
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To: kristinn
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it

40 posted on 11/29/2013 9:04:57 AM PST by Bobalu (White Boy Think A Lot)
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To: y'all
Map from BBC article - credited sources are Chinese Defence Ministry and EIA (U.S. Energy Information Administration). . .

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

BBC article

41 posted on 11/29/2013 9:57:10 AM PST by deks ("This nation is in grave jeopardy." Mark Levin, November 21, 2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I am arguing in favor of bringing back American jobs.

But, you don't state how. I'm looking for areas of agreement here. If you're talking about lowering the regulatory gauntlet and returning America to the pre-Jones & Laughlin Steel, pre-Darby, and pre-Wickard era of Commerce Clause jurisprudence, then I'm with you.

If you're talking about corporatism and crony capitalism via trade restrictions, I'm not.

How we do that is certainly up to everyone, but we have sold out American businesses.

You give me a little hope here, but "up to everyone" sounds like majority rule, not individual liberty. We got where we are by observing majority rule. I like liberty, individual liberty and as much of it as we can get.

In the meanwhile we have racked up $17 TRILLION DEBT, and growing. Debt. Debt. American debt.

I'll lump these statements all together for ease. You're right. Our debt is ours and came to us via majority rule and, in part, by allowing the government to expand on the Commerce Clause, making it an instrument of tyranny. This problem is uniquely American and is a spending, not a free trade problem.

We need to make things right here.

What things? Why things?

Bring back American jobs. Now.

Again this vague platitude carries no meaning. Define: American jobs, "now" and how you will do this. Jingoism isn't thoughtful.

42 posted on 11/29/2013 9:59:09 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: nathanbedford; Cringing Negativism Network

Your caveat, nb, undermines his remedies, which remedy(ies) he doesn’t name.

You correctly cite government as the problem. CNN cites government and more of it as the solution.


43 posted on 11/29/2013 10:01:11 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: central_va

You do realize that a “trade deficit” is an invention and doesn’t ever exist, ever.


44 posted on 11/29/2013 10:01:40 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: kristinn

an earlier story said South Korea also sent planes in


45 posted on 11/29/2013 10:21:18 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: rbg81

It is not in our national interest to tax and regulate and sue companies out of the country. Also “free trade” with countries like China is just stupid.


46 posted on 11/29/2013 10:22:57 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Venturer

replace food stamps with WW2-type ration cards

or even

abolish the whole welfare bureaucracy and just give them cash for showing up with their dependants in tow each month.

lol

either way would save tens of billions


47 posted on 11/29/2013 10:25:17 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: 1010RD

I think it is time for the government, in the following way:

I support an across-the-board 10% tariff.

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying the government should pick and choose. Far from it.

I am saying EVERYTHING brought into America to sell, is assessed a 10% tariff.

I mean everything. Oil. (just imported, no tariff on American oil)

Food. (just imported, no tariff on American food)

And everything manufactured. Everything.

10%.

That is not a lot, but I believe that getting all products lumped into “produced in America” vs. imported, points out an ever more important difference.

America needs to produce/grow/drill out of the ground right here in America, what we use.

Not import it.

For an entire generation we have been selling off America.

Bring it back. Now.


48 posted on 11/29/2013 10:25:57 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: 1010RD
You do realize that a “trade deficit” is an invention and doesn’t ever exist, ever.

There's an element of cargo cultism involved here. Some of the industries being talked about were cutting edge at the time they were based stateside. Shoes. Textiles. Commodity flat-rolled steel. The idea here is that if we merely start making some of these low-tech products stateside again, Arthur Winkler will dust off his leather jacket, and Ron Cunningham and his celluloid high school buddies will leap out from behind TV screens and resurrect the 50's era, when the dollar was king, and the world's factories, outside of the US, were in ruins. If only that were true.

In reality, countries prosper, or not, based on the quality of their human resources and the scope and scale of their natural resources (timber, cultivable land, rainfall, mineral deposits, etc) and technological innovation. We've hit the jackpot on both. From the submarine to the A-bomb, Americans have pioneered and continue to pioneer leading edge technologies. Without these technologies, we'd be Australia, a prosperous First World country, a land of milk and honey. But it's these technologies that make the US a force to be reckoned with on the world scene. Not sunset industries like shoes, textiles and commodity flat-rolled steel. There are natural resource-rich countries with sky-high trade tariffs. Two of these countries are Argentina and Brazil.

49 posted on 11/29/2013 10:28:01 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
From a national sovereignty standpoint I agree with you.

Practically, we have Chinese assembling electronics for pennies on the dollar compared to what an American worker would need to make as a sustainable wage.

We have moms Christmas shopping at Wal-Mart whose only concern is buying the next gadget for their kids, gadgets that might last 1-2 years before being tossed into the landfills. Country of origin is the furthest thing from their thoughts.

We could argue "Patriotism!" but are inevitably met with the stark reality that the America of today commands neither the respect nor passion of the America settled by Puritans and later fought and bled over by true patriots centuries ago.

Compound all of the foregoing with the fact that peoples' mean application of logic lacks the rigor it once did, owing in large part to obessive preoccupation with the very gadgets in question.

50 posted on 11/29/2013 10:45:45 AM PST by Lexinom
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