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But we have to define our terms:

•By “socialism,” we must understand “theft.” A socialist government uses brute force, backed up by guns, to steal property from some people to give it to others.Pope Francis reflects the wish that governments might better organize society. But governments cannot do that apart from the threat of violence to enforce their schemes. Would Jesus endorse the violence needed for government intervention?

•By capitalism, we mean individual initiative under freedom, with the right to use what people own and to reap the fruits of one’s labor and initiative. Capitalist business must necessarily benefit society, because private businesses have no power to force anyone to buy their products or services. The consumer is king. Consumers won’t buy unless the purchase benefits them. To reinforce that central pillar of capitalism, laws against lying and fraud are proper and necessary. The consumer must be able to know and understand what he is buying and what it truly costs. The same applies to employment.

•We reject crony capitalism and monopolies. That is what the Vatican obviously believes capitalism means. When corrupt governments are entangled with businesses, then transactions are no longer voluntary. Crony capitalism is what most people experience in Francis’ native Argentina, throughout Latin America and much of the Third World. The benefit to society is absent without informed consent.

We know that Jesus condemns crony capitalism. That’s partly what the incident at the temple was all about in Matthew 21, when Jesus overturned the tables of money-changers. Some think money-changers were bankers. Actually they exchanged one currency for another. The temple priests required that special temple coins had to be used to give mandatory tithes. So worshipers had to exchange their secular money. But the money-changers were defrauding people with a dishonest exchange rate.

1 posted on 12/01/2013 3:27:58 PM PST by Moseley
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To: Moseley

Jesus knew that mankind requires perfect freedom in order to love God. Love is not love which is forced. That’s why we’re free, and subject to the forces of the world.


2 posted on 12/01/2013 3:33:11 PM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (If you liked the website, you'll LOVE the healthcare!)
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To: Moseley

The word capitalism does not even appear in the Apostolic Exhortation entitled The Joy of the Gospel. In fact, there is nothing new in what Francis says about economics in this document at all. These insights are a part of the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church and have been for a very long time.


3 posted on 12/01/2013 3:34:47 PM PST by Ge0ffrey
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To: Moseley

In a way, you are right. The only way for salvation was through Christ. In his words, deny yourself, pick up my cross, and follow Jesus.


4 posted on 12/01/2013 3:36:10 PM PST by DownInFlames
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To: Moseley

Somehow Jesus never preached that Caesar and Herod should be the arbitrators of social justice or that they should have the means of production and distribution.


5 posted on 12/01/2013 3:44:57 PM PST by allendale
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To: Moseley
That’s partly what the incident at the temple was all about in Matthew 21, when Jesus overturned the tables of money-changers. Some think money-changers were bankers.

I thought it was because Jesus didn't want the sanctity of the temple violated by commerce.
Thus the first separation of church and state.

7 posted on 12/01/2013 3:46:02 PM PST by oldbrowser ("From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" .....Marx)
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To: Moseley

Jesus was in favour of some redistribution of wealth - done through each and every individual. Even the widow’s small amount was wealth redistribution, but done by the widow.

Even when the tithe is given, to keep the storehouse full, it was done individually, voluntarily, to help others, and in obedience to God.

Jesus was not, imho, a socialist. Socialism is tyranny. It gives power to the power-hungry.


8 posted on 12/01/2013 3:49:29 PM PST by JudyinCanada
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To: Moseley

Jesus said in his own words:

Matt. 20: 15

“Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?”

I`ll follow Jesus any day of the week, thank you Sir!


9 posted on 12/01/2013 3:50:10 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Moseley

No more can we claim Jesus a capitalist as they can a socialist. Jesus was indeed for personal freedom and also personal responsibility. He also told his disciples to pay the tax to Caesar and would have been well acquainted with tithing and gleaning which were God ordered ways of a) Taking care of temple/kingly/governmental needs and of taking care of the poor.

Mel


10 posted on 12/01/2013 3:51:15 PM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: Moseley
Let me run something by you---and I don't expect everyone to agree, but . . .

Jesus did not ask His followers to ever do ANYTHING that He didn't do. If He said lay down your life, He did that. Therefore, I think it reasonable to think that He gave money away, regularly and generously, or He could not justly tell us to do so. ("He was tempted in all ways as are we, yet without sin.") I believe He had money from the kings who visited Joseph's HOUSE (not the manger!!) as a "young child" and gave Him gold, frankensense and myrrh. But I think it was more than three (no mention of "three kings" is ever made) and I think most brought gold---only one guy forgot his gift and stopped at Speedway for an air freshener, a Zippo lighter, frankensense, and myrrh :) Anyway, I believe (and have some evidence if you want me to share) that He and the disciples had on them cash at all times; that He was in the habit of giving it away anonymously, at night (see the comment on Judas at the Last Supper that he was going to "give something to the poor" . . . HUH? At midnight? Unless that's what he did all the time as per Jesus's orders).

So I believe that Jesus set an example of giving for His disciples and therefore can command us to give and it shall be given unto us because He gave.

11 posted on 12/01/2013 3:52:27 PM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: Moseley
"Pope Francis errs."

Well, what else is new?

12 posted on 12/01/2013 3:59:21 PM PST by Wyrd bi ful ard (Gone Galt, 11/07/12----No king but Christ! Don't tread on me!)
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To: Moseley
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:10

Hardly a ringing endorsement for EBT cards or the Marxist food stamp program. Christianity is not collectivist in any way, shape or form.

13 posted on 12/01/2013 4:00:12 PM PST by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: Moseley

Jesus died in what, 33AD? The word ‘capitalism’ was invented by Marx in the 19th century. But then you’re right, Jesus being God knew in 30AD that Marx would invent the word 1,900 years later. Never mind.


14 posted on 12/01/2013 4:01:09 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Moseley

Bump


15 posted on 12/01/2013 4:01:34 PM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: Moseley

Yes, everyone knows Jesus came to Earth and died for free markets.


17 posted on 12/01/2013 4:15:18 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: Moseley

IMO Pope Francis is a very nice but Naïve man who has no idea about the world economy.

Like everyone even we Freepers it hurts him to see poor people, People who are struggling, but he has no conception of the people who refuse to help themselves and he has no conception that their ranks are growing and instead of their finding work or wanting work they are perfectly willing to let others support them.

WE see people—Christians -—in Syria and Africa dying by the hands of Muslims, but we do not see the Pope raising a hue and cry for them. Yet he raises an alarm about the economic system. Where is his compassion for the Dying and persecuted Christians in the Middle East.


19 posted on 12/01/2013 4:16:59 PM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Moseley

And another view on the translation problem:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/11/29/Has-Pope-Francis-Message-Been-Lost-in-Translation


20 posted on 12/01/2013 4:18:00 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Moseley
One truth shines out from the Bible: Jesus spoke to the individual, never to government or government policy. Jesus was a capitalist, preaching personal responsibility, not a socialist. Pope Francis condemned capitalism. Some argue that Francis’ Spanish-language Apostolic Exhortation was mistranslated. But Francis is not among those disputing that translation. Moreover, corrected translations are no better. Francis argues for dependence upon government to redistribute wealth. And con artists in the U.S. are seizing on the opportunity to spread the misery of socialism. Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin this week called Pope Francis on his mangling of economics. Then author Reza Aslan struck back in the Washington Post, claiming that Jesus was a socialist.

Ping for later

21 posted on 12/01/2013 4:18:49 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Moseley

Huh?

You mean he can walk on water and make sense too?

Miracles never end with this guy.

Thank you Jesus.


22 posted on 12/01/2013 4:23:11 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Moseley

I am catholic, but I don’t believe in updating the religion to please unbelievers.


24 posted on 12/01/2013 4:29:03 PM PST by dila813
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To: Moseley

It can be said that Socialism could be considered a multifaceted promotion of sin. First, it is theft. Second it promotes coveting others’ property. Third and the most insidious, is it creates a barrier to spreading the Word by injecting a secular government in the place of the Christian duty to minister to the poor and needy.


26 posted on 12/01/2013 4:37:31 PM PST by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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