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Itís time to delist all wolves
Capital Press ^ | November 14. 2013

Posted on 12/03/2013 12:44:44 PM PST by george76

Past experience in Idaho, northeastern Oregon and Washington state illustrate that it's time to take gray wolves completely off the federal list of endangered species.

The West’s wolf problem started in 1995 and 1996. That’s when 66 wolves from Canada were reintroduced in Idaho and Yellowstone National Park.

Those wolves multiplied and spread into Wyoming, Utah and Oregon. They also took up residence in Washington state and Montana, where other wolves from Canada already lived. Today at least 1,674 wolves live in 321 packs within the region, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. That’s in addition to the 65,000 wolves living in Canada and Alaska.

One does not have to be a wildlife biologist to see the gray wolf is not an endangered species in any sense of the word.

The rapid spread and population growth of the gray wolf is proof that it is here to stay. Across the West, the wolf has established itself as a top predator. Where once there were no packs, hundreds now thrive. That’s in addition to a thriving wolf population across the upper Midwest.

...

it is ranchers who need protection, not wolves.

(Excerpt) Read more at capitalpress.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Canada; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; US: Alaska; US: Arizona; US: Idaho; US: Minnesota; US: Montana; US: New Mexico; US: North Dakota; US: Oregon; US: South Dakota; US: Washington; US: Wisconsin; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: agenda21; animalrights; ar; farming; graywolf; mexicanwolf; ranching; un21; wolf; wolves
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1 posted on 12/03/2013 12:44:44 PM PST by george76
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To: george76

Delist them? Hell, we should pay bounty on them.


2 posted on 12/03/2013 12:45:43 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: george76

There is a reason, a very valid and prudent reason, that our forefathers eradicated wolves in most of the CONUS in the 19th Century.


3 posted on 12/03/2013 12:46:00 PM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: george76

Couldn’t agree more. Thanks for posting this.


4 posted on 12/03/2013 12:46:47 PM PST by bigfootbob
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To: george76

YES...It’s way past time to delist wolves.


5 posted on 12/03/2013 12:51:05 PM PST by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: george76

Pigs in the south, wolves in the north, raptors all over. A bunch of critters are getting a little too populous.


6 posted on 12/03/2013 12:51:55 PM PST by lurk
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To: bigfootbob; jazusamo; Flycatcher; girlangler; LucyT; Brown Deer; MestaMachine; justiceseeker93; ...

Federal officials say reintroduction programs for the gray wolf have been a success and the animal no longer needs Endangered Species Act protections.

Written comments on the proposed delisting will be accepted through Dec. 17.

http://www.capitalpress.com/article/20131125/ARTICLE/131129949


7 posted on 12/03/2013 12:58:38 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: lurk

It’s time to de-list bureaucrats.


8 posted on 12/03/2013 1:03:17 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: george76

I’m sort of in favor of wiping out any predatory species that is prone to killing humans in areas where humans live, except for humans themselves of course. I mean, it’s either all of them or a few of us. And I think a few of us are worth more than all of them.


9 posted on 12/03/2013 1:07:48 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: Hieronymus

And politicians.


10 posted on 12/03/2013 1:16:50 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: george76

The California Fish and Game Commission voted to list the white shark—also called the man-eater shark—as an endangered species. However, the Federal Government has apparently refrained from taking this step.


11 posted on 12/03/2013 1:20:46 PM PST by Fiji Hill (Fight on!!)
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To: george76

Thanks.


12 posted on 12/03/2013 1:21:46 PM PST by jazusamo ([Obama] A Truly Great Phony -- Thomas Sowell http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3058949/posts)
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To: george76

We have a wolf season in Michigan now.


13 posted on 12/03/2013 1:33:49 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Hieronymus

I envision a Hunger Games type scenario where we drop unarmed bureaucrats into the middle of wolf pack infested areas and watch the fun.


14 posted on 12/03/2013 1:33:56 PM PST by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: SJackson

*outdoors ping*


15 posted on 12/03/2013 1:35:17 PM PST by randita
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To: Rebelbase

Isle Royale in Lake Superior looks like a good location.


16 posted on 12/03/2013 1:37:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: TigersEye

Like my tag line?


17 posted on 12/03/2013 1:41:01 PM PST by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Hieronymus

Indeed!


18 posted on 12/03/2013 1:52:54 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: TigersEye

Don’t forget the PACK OF WOLVES in Washington DC


19 posted on 12/03/2013 2:00:29 PM PST by spawn44 (MOO)
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To: spawn44

That’s who I had in mind.


20 posted on 12/03/2013 2:02:24 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: lurk

Congresscritters top the list.............


21 posted on 12/03/2013 2:10:12 PM PST by Osage Orange (I have strong feelings about gun control. If there's a gun around, I want to be controlling it.)
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To: cripplecreek

Crip, the wolves will just travel across the ice to Copper Harbor. Don’t tell the wolves about that whole new “we shoot wolves, don’t we!” rule. No need for them to know that!


22 posted on 12/03/2013 2:16:04 PM PST by blu
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To: TigersEye
All of the meetings those idiots are having and not one in the area suffering the Wolf Losses. Put a bounty of $ 150 per wolf and they will disappear pronto. Shoot Shovel and shut up. any caliber above a 243 will stop them...
23 posted on 12/03/2013 2:17:49 PM PST by BooBoo1000 (Dont give up, even Moses was a basket case at one time or other.)
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To: george76

The ancestor of the dog.

Canis lupus familiaris


24 posted on 12/03/2013 3:08:59 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: george76

Send them here to the Eastern Shore of MD; the deer eat everything and need to be thinned out.


25 posted on 12/03/2013 3:35:08 PM PST by Bigg Red (Let me hear what God the LORD will speak. -Ps85)
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To: Rebelbase

I envision a Hunger Games type scenario where we drop unarmed bureaucrats into the middle of wolf pack infested areas and watch the fun.
++++++++
As long as they’re chained to a bowling ball....or better.


26 posted on 12/03/2013 5:04:49 PM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
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To: Bigg Red

Hunting is good.

Food on the family table and ...


27 posted on 12/03/2013 5:18:12 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76; Alaska Wolf

Even Alaska ones???


28 posted on 12/03/2013 6:11:42 PM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: Vigilanteman; george76

I spent more time in the hills hunting this fall than I ever have.

The elk herds in this area (not to mention the moose, which are all but eliminated, as well as the mountain goats and bighorn sheep, whose numbers are way down) are diminished, broken up, fleeing, with the remnants acting as they never have before.

The remaining elk seem to be herding up in as big a numbers as they can, and many, many of them are heading to privately held land and simply hunkering down there.

On the big private ranches they are granted a bit of safety, in that ranchers watch for wolves and of course usually allow very few hunters in.

On public ground no one is vigilant around the clock and if the elk spend time up there they will be slaughtered. What has happened to the ordinary meat hunter, like myself, is that we have to hunt higher and deeper and more frequently just in hopes of bumping into a scattered group of elk.

The wealthy-—and I bear them no grudge-—can purchase a hunting vacation on the big ranches, around five grand for four or five days, and can usually score a big bull.

The upshot of the introduction of the gray wolf is that the numbers of elk are way down, as are other big game animal populations; the remaining big game is perpetually nervous, milling, moving, not breeding or producing calves like it used to; and the hunting privileges have shifted to the very rich (and the very poor, who will poach for the food of necessity, the law be damned), while the typical wildlife-supporting hunter is increasingly deciding just to stay the hell home.

Here’s a quick story: while I was way up high last week I ran into a younger hunter, a really skilled outdoorsman, who spends far more time than I in the mountains. He said that last year he was hunting way up, when he glassed a big bull lying on a neighboring ridge, maybe a half mile away.

As he set about figuring out a sneak, he noticed movement coming down that ridge toward the elk—wolves, eight or ten of them. They cover the ground fast, and they were closing on the big bull.

My friend thought, Surely the big boy will get up and start to move. Even if he can’t outrun them. But he will move.

As he watched, the wolves almost on the elk, the bull finally stood. Then my friend understood the situation. The big bull had been attacked by the wolves earlier, and his hindquarters were mostly eaten off him: a red bloody maw back there. For some reason—maybe to pursue and attack more of the herd—the wolves had left him.

Now they were returning to finish the job, which at length they did.

There you have the fruits of environmentalism.


29 posted on 12/03/2013 6:54:32 PM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: Fightin Whitey

Sad story and confirms what I’ve heard from others who spend far more time outdoors than I do. Too bad your young hunter friend was too far away to shoot a couple of the wolves.


30 posted on 12/03/2013 7:51:18 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: george76

My husband is not a hunter, but I totally agree.


31 posted on 12/04/2013 4:40:04 AM PST by Bigg Red (Let me hear what God the LORD will speak. -Ps85)
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To: lurk

There are wolves in NM. I just SSS.


32 posted on 12/04/2013 8:45:48 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: george76

No mention of wolves and hydatid disease due to Echinococcosis granulosus tape worms. Two thirds of wolves examined now contain this pest. The eggs last 25 years in soil and can be inhaled in dust.


33 posted on 12/04/2013 9:05:45 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: BooBoo1000
Put a bounty of $ 150 per wolf and they will disappear pronto.

Hunting is an ineffective means of wolf eradication. One can kill 70% of the wolf population every year and it will remain stable. When eradication was accomplished in the past, it was with poison bait.

34 posted on 12/04/2013 9:07:49 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Fightin Whitey
There you have the fruits of environmentalism.

Wolves prefer two types of elk: yearling calves and pregnant females, not the old and the sick as was touted by environmentalists.

As long as wolves can subsist off cattle, they will be able to extirpate other species and survive. Look for moose, caribou, elk, and mountain goats and sheep to be on the death watch. Deer will be harder to take down, but will be scarce. Vegetation will run amok and contribute to our already overburdened fuel loads. This is an environmental disaster.

35 posted on 12/04/2013 9:13:38 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Carry_Okie

You are absolutely right.

Even the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has been forced to recognize (although not admit publicly) that the birthrate for elk is fast approaching zero.

When possible the wolves, much like leftists in general, will simply take the fetus and move on.


36 posted on 12/04/2013 9:38:37 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: lurk
Pigs in the south,

They're spreading throughout Michigan now.......

37 posted on 12/04/2013 9:41:34 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Miss Muffit suffered from arachnophobia.....)
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To: Fightin Whitey
Even the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks has been forced to recognize (although not admit publicly) that the birthrate for elk is fast approaching zero.

They had been told. Cliff White had already run the numbers up in Banff National Park.

38 posted on 12/04/2013 9:45:21 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Glad to encounter someone so well-informed as you.

As you probably know even on FR one can run into posters who just love the natural beauty and majesty of the non-native wolves.

I’ll be eager to ping you, if you don’t mind, when I find myself in a battle with that gang.

As I say, very pleased to make your acquaintance.


39 posted on 12/04/2013 10:16:05 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: Fightin Whitey
I’ll be eager to ping you, if you don’t mind, when I find myself in a battle with that gang.

Not a problem. If you need source references, George Dovel is by far the best collector of reliable information on the wolf reintroduction.

BTW, it truly is a reintroduction as North American Holocene wolves came over the Bering land bridge, probably chasing bison herds driven by people (as there sure as hell wasn't enough forage to attract them). By that time, the Indians had already killed off Canis Dirus and the endemic North American bison (if there truly was one). Wolves, as we know them, are an introduced species.

40 posted on 12/04/2013 10:25:37 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: george76

This looks like an employment program for wildlife biologists. Too many have these degrees and they want to keep these wolves endangered. Or they are out of a job.


41 posted on 12/04/2013 10:28:46 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw
Same for the planned ESA expansion for the sage grouse. Job security for the lazy bureaucrats.

They could breed the sage grouse, etc. in farms if they wanted more birds

42 posted on 12/04/2013 10:47:55 AM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Fightin Whitey

LOL, I can’t believe people feel that way.

What in the hell do we need wolfs running around all over the place for?

I mean, this isn’t some diorama, this is real life.

People are so, so ignorant.

Get rid of ‘em all and throw down a bunch of poison bait all over the place. I never understood why people get upset at “extinction.” I mean, it happens, let the dam things go.

Would you want a bunch of those Dinosaur era monsters running wild all over the place killing us left and right and eating every fish in the sea?


43 posted on 12/04/2013 1:54:04 PM PST by Individual Rights in NJ (I don't even know what to say anymore...)
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To: dennisw
This looks like an employment program for wildlife biologists.

Those would be "wild lie biologists."

Too many have these degrees and they want to keep these wolves endangered. Or they are out of a job.

They are the white slaves of the 21st Century.

44 posted on 12/04/2013 5:33:35 PM PST by Carry_Okie (0Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head, then take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Carry_Okie

It’s a living! A Gov’t job is a good job! Sometimes the only job around. Look at all the climate scientists on the Federale Gov’t tit. We have a surplus of such scientists and they need jobs and grants. Grants keep their budding climatologist grad students in the green


45 posted on 12/05/2013 10:01:41 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw
Grants keep their budding climatologist grad students in the green.

It also keeps the universities pumping out more of them.

46 posted on 12/05/2013 10:14:10 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0-Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head and take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Carry_Okie

You know a lot more than I do.

But the longtime locals here call it the “introduction” of the recent wolves, as they are not the same species as the wolves native to the area.

The native wolves, Northern Rocky Mountain Timber wolves (Canis Lupus Irremotus, so say the locals) were smaller and tended to hunt singly or in pairs.

The transplanted wolves, Canadian Grays (Canis Lupus Occidentalis) are big beasts, as you know, and like to hunt—or shall we say slaughter—in packs.

All this, at least, is my understanding.


47 posted on 12/05/2013 11:01:51 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: Fightin Whitey; forester
But the longtime locals here call it the “introduction” of the recent wolves, as they are not the same species as the wolves native to the area.

Actually, they may be wrong there, although I am sympathetic with the argument ecologically, but do not agree genetically. A "species" is defined by all that is capable of producing viable hybrids. Hence, horses and donkeys are separate species because mules are sterile. On the other hand, dogs and wolves may not be because they do interbreed and bear viable progeny capable of reproducing (which really crashes the greenie "endangered species" argument, BTW). Look at the differences among domestic dogs. That is but one species; i.e., they can interbreed. Hence, they are not different species although they do possess heritable differences.

The Canadian wolf and the US domestic variety are functionally different in that the larger size of the former is far more capable of taking down their prey in this system, which they have done. Yet they are not genetically different. They may be epigenetically different, in that their habitat has impressed upon them tendency toward larger size because of the larger prey they have up there. In fact, depending upon food, a canid such as the American wolf can scale upwards to twice its size in but five generations under sufficiently favorable conditions.

I know that throws a monkey wrench into the argument, but truth does come first. The point as far as I am concerned is that if elk were overpopulated (which they were) the states should have issued more cow tags instead of bringing in wolves.

48 posted on 12/05/2013 11:38:51 AM PST by Carry_Okie (0-Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head and take everything you own to pay for it.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Are you in Oklahoma?

You sound like you live just down the road in Montana.

I have seen your case made before, and find it reasonable. Pro-wolf people will claim they are actually the same species while people on the ground here say “maybe so strictly speaking but these animals are way bigger and act differently.”

I am certainly willing to accept your point.

You are right about the cow tags and so on. There are any number of courses our Fish, Wildlife & Parks Department might have followed, but they are so horridly politicized...it’s just unbelievable now, I have friends, one a really decent human being, who have risen to top positions and now stand before microphones lying without scruple.

You can tell by the wear and tear on them but if they buck the system-—if they even hint at the truth-—they will effectively end their careers.

Personally I can’t imagine having to do it, or doing it even if I “had to”...makes me think of the (paraphrased) Clint Eastwood line:

Josey: Why do you do it?

Bounty Hunter: It’s a living.

Josey: Lying ain’t much of a living, boy.

Ha!


49 posted on 12/05/2013 11:59:52 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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To: Fightin Whitey
Are you in Oklahoma?

No. I'm a native Californian.

You sound like you live just down the road in Montana.

lol

I have friends, one a really decent human being, who have risen to top positions and now stand before microphones lying without scruple.

Yup. It sucks all right. I call them "wild-lie biologists, the white slaves of the 21st Century." 'But I'd lose my retirement!!!' hardly stacks against "our lives, our fortunes, and our Sacred honor," does it?

From the agency perspective, a lot of it is about the cost of being sued. The greenies have truckloads of foundation money, whose owners have big financial stakes (steaks?) in this game: absolute control of food, water, and energy, all for fun and profit while they screw up the planet they purport to save.

50 posted on 12/05/2013 12:13:09 PM PST by Carry_Okie (0-Care IS Medicaid; they'll pull a sheet over your head and take everything you own to pay for it.)
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