Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The college-for-all model isn't working
The Los Angeles Times ^ | December 3, 2013 | Tamar Jacoby

Posted on 12/04/2013 9:03:38 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Instead of going through Congress and making the initiative bipartisan, President Obama acted alone in mid-November, promising $100 million in grants to specialized high schools — such as New York City's Pathways in Technology Early College High School — that prepare students for technical careers. The president's on the right track, but why make it partisan? Schools like P-TECH are an idea whose time has come — one that can be adopted by both parties and by business as well as government.

Vocational education fell from favor decades ago because it was seen as an inferior track for less able students. More Americans attend college today than ever before: this year, 42% of young people 18 to 24 years old. Even among high school students in the bottom quarter of their class, 90% expect to go to college. And there's no question that, for many Americans, college is a ticket to the middle class.

But there's also mounting evidence that the college-for-all model isn't working......

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: academia; college; education; obama; vocationaleducation

1 posted on 12/04/2013 9:03:39 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

No kidding. We need polytechnics like they have in Europe — basically trade schools with a little more academic oomph. This would benefit the people who go to them and their future employers and, actually, our colleges and universities — folks who want job training wouldn’t be cluttering them up, and we’d only need to deal with folks who actually want an education.

2 posted on 12/04/2013 9:10:21 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The_Reader_David

I like that proposal.

3 posted on 12/04/2013 9:13:00 PM PST by Dysart (Obamacare: "We are losing money on every subscriber-- but we will make it up in volume!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Vo-tech schools should be built all over the place. But I guess we don’t need them since Mexicans will do all the jobs that we don’t want to do. Like building houses, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, mechanics, etc.

4 posted on 12/04/2013 9:13:12 PM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Give the Los Angeles Times the Captain Obvious award. We need to downsize the colleges and get rid of worthless degrees. we need more vocational education centers where trainees can do hands-on training. Nah, that's too easy to work.
5 posted on 12/04/2013 9:26:20 PM PST by MasterGunner01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

6 posted on 12/04/2013 9:29:13 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I taught Advanced Precision Measuring Equipment Laboratory Technician training to Navy and Air Force active duty (also civilians and foreign military). Many “college grads” wouldn’t be able to get through the courses.

General Dynamics (and many other companies) know which MOS’s, AFSC’s, Navy NEC’s etc. will have the skills and knowledge they are looking for.

7 posted on 12/04/2013 9:38:40 PM PST by CPO retired
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Everyone has the same potential.


8 posted on 12/04/2013 10:01:21 PM PST by Born to Conserve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CPO retired

I have a friend whose MOS is Patriot MD—would that be among those you reference?

9 posted on 12/04/2013 10:11:28 PM PST by milagro (There is no peace in appeasement!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01

I see from your post #5 that you condemn “worthless degrees.” To some extent you are correct, degrees in “African studies” do strike me as non-academic and frivolous. But you probably also see degrees in, say, history as worthless, too.

More than likely you do not understand what a truly good education confers on someone, i.e., an understanding of the world we live in. IOW, you see education as job training. Too bad.

10 posted on 12/05/2013 4:56:12 AM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: CPO retired


Millennials Abandon Obama and Obamacare
A majority of America’s youngest adults would vote to recall the president.

Take this test to determine you are a Millennial:
My score was: “Your Millennial score is 0”

How Millennial Are You?

Take our 14 item quiz and we’ll tell you how “Millennial” you are, on a scale from 0 to 100, by comparing your answers with those of respondents to a scientific nationwide survey. You can also find out how you stack up against others your age.

11 posted on 12/05/2013 6:55:06 AM PST by KeyLargo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: VerySadAmerican

***plumbing, electrical, HVAC, mechanics, etc.***

THAT is where the real money is, along with welding, fit up, machinists, pipeline work.

Unfortunately such jobs require you to sweat in the summer and get cold in the winter, and come home diry, something today’s kids hate!

12 posted on 12/05/2013 6:57:52 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Born to Conserve

ten years ago I was at a gathering that included a bunch of public school teachers...

you should have seen the looks of shock and outrage when I said something to the effect of “college isn’t for everyone”.

13 posted on 12/05/2013 7:00:26 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator
... the world needs ditch diggers too.

Today they are called heavy equipment operators and they make a pretty good living. ;~))

14 posted on 12/05/2013 8:43:09 AM PST by Ditto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
The city I grew up in had two vocational high schools years ago -- both closed now. Back then kids could graduate from HS and be ready for work as electricians, bricklayers, carpenters, mechanics, HVAC, draftsmen, and a number of other trades.

Putting everyone on an academic track and downplaying vocational education was a big mistake.

15 posted on 12/05/2013 8:47:39 AM PST by Ditto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ditto

See, Judge Smails was a genius.

16 posted on 12/05/2013 8:47:50 AM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: OldPossum

As a young lad years ago I decided I wanted to be a mining engineer and go to exotic SA. I sweated working in a bakery all summer so that I could make enough money for the first semester at a highly rated JC. On the first day at orientation I was introduced to the idea that just being enrolled put me in the elite of the young people. What a joke especially when I got the impression that the girls could expect to meet some exceptional young men. WWII cut into my thoughts for rumba and samba for two years. When I got back to college after WWII I found a much different college atmosphere. The colleges and universities had found there was a lot of government money being tossed around and decided to cash in with a bunch of meaningless, as to real professional societal needs,to make money and student curriculums. That their were societal vultures just waiting for such opportunities to pillage the system didn’t help matters. I did graduate from one of worlds best universities in a tech field with help from the G.I. Bill but my eyes and thoughts were opened to a belief the Nation had created a wasteland as to real academic and societal needs.

17 posted on 12/05/2013 8:49:25 AM PST by noinfringers2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: OldPossum
Then you have misunderstood. Some courses in college translate into good jobs afterward [example: any engineering degree]. Others are good for knowledge, but do not lend themselves to a job [example: history] other than a narrow field such as teaching. Other degrees are totally worthless [example: any degree ending in “studies”].

There is a difference between teach critical thinking and indoctrination. Most people could save a lot of money by going to vocational schools or junior colleges and getting useful skills and not paying for a gold plated “education” that's worthless.

18 posted on 12/05/2013 11:16:50 AM PST by MasterGunner01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MasterGunner01

I would expect anyone with the screen name of MasterGunner01 to not understand the purpose of higher education. You are fixated on college as job training and there’s no way to penetrate that barrier. And I’m not about to try.

19 posted on 12/05/2013 1:57:43 PM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: OldPossum
We push our kids that are just out of high school into four year colleges. It has been my experience that a 17 or 18 year old has absolutely no idea what they want to do as a course of study, much less a career. I have advised graduates to go to the local junior college tho see if they can map out a coherent path of study. The benefit of the local junior college is the student gets to stay at home and not run up thousands of dollars in debt from the four year schools.

There is always a huge attrition rate among freshmen and it makes more sense to get one’s academic identity established close to home than far away. Likewise, if one must go to a four year institution, then go to a state university because of in-state tuition benefits.

College or university work is very expensive and I believe it is important for a student to understand what he or she is signing up to do, its pros and cons, and the cost of that decision.

Rather than automatically send your kids off to college, maybe you need to have a long discussion about what they want to do for a living and what their goals in life are. There are alternatives to college that provide training in many different disciplines that can lead to rewarding jobs.

I'm retired and I can tell you that what I learned in college was great for my general knowledge base, but it did not factor in the job I got. The job that T pursued for 30 years was technical writing for aviation systems. In effect, I had to translate the engineer's jargon into instructions for maintenance technicians to follow. That is not an easy task.

[If you think this is a no brainer, then sit down and write a step by step procedure to turn on, sign in, and open various programs on your computer for someone who is completely ignorant of computers and their associated jargon. Bonus points: write up the closing of programs and step by step shutdown procedures for your computer. Then, have someone follow those directions to see how well you did.]

20 posted on 12/05/2013 6:34:31 PM PST by MasterGunner01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson