Skip to comments.Nelson Mandela, anti-apartheid icon and father of modern South Africa, dies
Posted on 12/05/2013 2:11:15 PM PST by Red Badger
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More than a little. This Barack Obama is a maniacal nut, and the Surgeon General needs to put him in a rubber room.
Fools&tools who do not know ANC’s history will stay forever enchanted by his quest.
Those who died at the behest of the ANC are silent at the news of his death.
When an idol goes kerflooie, worship has to go somewhere else. It could go to another idol or it could go to God, but I doubt the evangelization has been good enough there for it to go to God this time around. Maybe they’ll all end up hailing Barack Obama, which he would love. Then we could ask him to quit and become the new president of South Africa and they would all deserve one another.
This was what I posted to Facebook when Maggie Thatcher died.
A few people in her may be able to relate:
What has happened to decency? I am totally disgusted with the national pastime of dancing on the graves of people you politically disagree with.
When a person dies, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the classy response is to be gracious and allow other people to honor them. There are very few Hitler, Stalin, Rios Montt and Torquemada types who were EVIL. Their names, as Proverbs says, will rot, and rightly so. Most people are instead a mixed bag. What is so horrible about granting them a little respect and kindness?
This business of being gleeful at the death of Ted Kennedy (as Breitbart did) or then celebrating the death of Breitbart and using the justification that “he did it to Kennedy” is despicable, childish, peevish, classless and hate filled.
.... let me say to any of my “progressive” friends who have said the most despicable things about Margaret Thatcher: Don’t hand me your crap about love and tolerance and joy and all the faux moralisms of the left while you engage in this kind of petty and hateful stuff. The woman is dead. At the WORST, she caused the gap between rich and poor to increase and engaged in a needless short military conflict with Argentina, and furthered the rise of corporatism. These are contested opinions, as well (two of which I agree with) She did not leave piles of bodies, she did not preside over multitudes plunged into penury. If you are so wedded to your political ideology that you cannot distinguish between the incendiary rhetoric of the political left and reality, then you really have nothing intelligent to say and should stop embarrassing yourself, and just shut up. You CERTAINLY have nothing to say about the crap I hear about “love” and “tolerance” and “acceptance.”
If your response to this is “well, the bible bangers do it!” I will say “yes, that does happen. That is,in fact the point, isn’t it. You are both mirror images of the ones you say you hate. I know how it is, btw. It is a delicious evil to chomp into a misery sandwich of celebration of the death of someone you REALLY did not like. It is there in me,as well as in you. It is a celebration of the evil you say you dislike in the other person.
RIP Margaret Thatcher.
“Mandela could have been gracious and turned the glory to God... which would have been a segue to racial harmony... “
Nonsense. After all those years in prison, he chose to have De Clerk as a deputy in his administration. They managed to maintain a market economy despite the fact that three hard left wing organizations make up the core of the ANC. They’re the only decent economy in subsaharan africa. They didn’t drive the whites farmers out or confiscate all of their lands, they let them stick around and simply levied taxes on them. Any fair comparison between SA and Zimbabwe shows people what could have been. If he’d come out of prison mean and vindictive(as he arguably had every right to be) he could have rounded up and slaughtered a bunch of people and destroyed their economy at the same time.
The Mandela situation is a lot like the MLK Jr. situation. People want to focus on their ideology rather than the pragmatism of their decisionmaking and their ability to navigate through without provoking wide spread physical conflict. It would have been so easy for either the US or the SA situations in the sixties to have devolved into bitter long term partisan violence.
I don’t see why it’s so hard for people to just tip their hat and move on. People can call him a terrorist, but I doubt there are more than a handful of freepers that wouldn’t have their guns at the ready if our government tried to treat us that way. He’s a man with flaws who handled things pretty well, all things considered. I think people don’t realize how bad things in SA could get if the racist populist types like his ex wife or Julius Malema ever truly gain control in the country. The same types of political idiots who’ve run Zimbabwe into the ground make up a sizeable chunk of the ANC. The fact that SA has maintained a favorable business climate over the last few decades is remarkable, all things considered, and it’s mostly stems from his decision to set a more moderate tone despite the fact that ANC had the power to do anything they liked.
Good point. White rule and apartheid South Africa weren't going to last forever. Their end could have been a lot more violent and destructive without Mandela and de Klerk.
Also, scapegoating a mortal figure, even a prominent one, doesn’t further the battle of good against evil. It only distracts us. Did Mandela do anything good at all, well we should try not to stop that. Did Mandela fail, and yield to sin or leave good things undone. Well we should try to remedy that. And God is whom we should be looking to in order to get it done.
"Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people."Mandela's adulation of Castro and Cuba almost outshines that of his own admirers. In May of 1990 Mandela, visiting America, went on record, referring to Cuba:
There's one thing where that country stands out head and shoulders above the rest. That is in its love for human rights and liberty.A week later in Libya, he lauded Qaddafi's:
Committment to the fight for peace and human rights in the world.While in America Mandela also made public statements that amounted to support for violence and terrorism in the furtherance of political aims. In a speech in Harlem, referring to four Puerto Rican terrorists who shot and wounded five US Congressmen in 1954, he said:
We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer to.Suitable "comrades" for Mandela indeed. He was himself originally incarcerated, not for his political views, but for involvement in 23 different acts of sabotage and conspiring to overthrow the government. He and his fellow conspirators of the ANC and the South African Communist Party were caught by the police while in the possession of 48,000 Soviet-made anti-personnel mines and 210,000 hand-grenades!* It is also interesting to note that in later years Mandela was offered his freedom by none other than the South African President Botha if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism, but Mandela refused to do this. Winnie Mandela has been equally fulsome in her praise of Communism and violence. In 1986 she was reported in Moscow's communist party newspaper Pravda as saying:
The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction.and again at Munsieville, on April 13, 1986, she said:
With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.referring here to her own specific brand of democratic political activity whereby anyone who opposed her would be bound hand and foot and then burned to death by means of a tyre filled with gasoline being placed around the neck and set on fire.
Has Mandela since changed his tune in any way?
In September, 2002, Mandela gave an interview to "Newsweek" and the following summary gives his views on the situation with regard to the Iraq crisis:
You will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace . It (war against Iraq) is clearly a decision that is motivated by George W. Bushs desire to please the arms and oil industries in the United States of America When there were white (UN) secretary generals you didnt find this question of the United States and Britain going out of the United Nations. But now that youve had black secretary generals like Boutros Boutros Ghali, like Kofi Annan, they do not respect the United Nations. They have contempt for it It is the men around him (Cheney and Rumsfeld) who are dinosaurs, who do not want him (President Bush) to belong to the modern age The only man, the only person who wants to help Bush move to the modern era is Gen. Colin Powell.No-one will deny Mandela the right to hold views opposed to a war on Iraq, but he is here revealing his own racist attitude to world politics - only white leaders are a threat to peace, and especially so when there are black secretary generals of the U.N. And in case we don't get the message he singles out the black member of the US administration, Colin Powell, as the only exception! (And, one could add, when it suits Mandela's argument, the Egyptian Boutros Ghali, suddenly qualifies as a "black" man...) The race card is one that is always brought out by Africans when they lack valid arguments, and it has always been a standard ploy of Communist rhetoric. To Mandela's way of thinking, it is capitalist greed that is preventing a one-world U.N. Government - in February 2003 he was reported as saying:
"if there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America...Iraq produces 64 percent of the oil in the world. What Bush wants is to get hold of that oil."Apart from displaying his Communist sentiments, Mandela here also reveals his ignorance of world economics - Iraq produces only 5% of world oil exports, not 64%. He also makes no mention of the huge debts of money that Iraq owes France, Germany and Russia, and that it is just possible that they are opposed to the war because they would like those debts paid. If Mandela's opposition to the United States comes as a surprise to some, or are dismissed as an expression of particularly strong feelings about the Iraq crisis, we should note that Mandela is nothing if not consistent. His views are always anti-American and pro-Communist, and always have been. In his book "The Struggle is My Life", a collection of his writings, we read in a piece dated 1958:
...the people of Asia and Africa have seen through the slanderous campaign conducted by the U.S.A. against the Socialist countries. They know that their independence is threatened not by any of the countries in the Socialist camp but by the U.S.A., who has surrounded their continent with military bases. The Communist bogey is an American stunt to distract the attention of the people of Africa from the real issue facing them, namely, American imperialism. (pp 76)
One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.
One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and
Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:
1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in: (a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosivesfor the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explo- sives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder); (b) the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic; (ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);
(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;
(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;
(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:
- (a) the health or safety of the public;
- (b) the maintenance of law and order;
- (c) the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;
- (d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;
- (e) the free movement of traffic on land; and
- (f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.
They still need to answer for the Vuvuzela.
Well now that Mandela has passed off the scene, what will happen next. I hope it isn’t just riots. That’s the trouble with a small-s savior who makes himself an idol instead of pointing to God. Once he’s off the mortal coil... vacuum city.
Oh that horn is such an abomination isn’t it.
RIP Nelson Mandela - I hope all h*ll doesn’t break out in the wake of your death. (Ha, no pun intended.)
God is not nonsense, and to flout God is nonsense and foolish. We of course should be glad that God did not let the situation fail as bad as Zimbabwe had. Nonetheless to deify Mandela is wrong too. That kind of allegiance only belongs to God. With Mandela’s being gone, comes the acid test of his legacy. If it fails, it’s at least in part because he did not emphasize God enough.
I cannot find the article I saw just last month from a British source (BBC? Guardian?) that had Tutu criticizing the ANC and Mandela.
I do offer up this:
Troubled South Africa Debates Impact of White Rule
AP ^ | April 12, 2013 | CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
Few South Africans have the moral stature of retired archbishop Desmond Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who campaigned against apartheid and now laments the crime and inequality that plague the nation two decades after it cast off racist white rule.
“We can’t pretend we have remained at the same heights and that’s why I say please, for goodness’ sake, recover the spirit that made us great,” Tutu said. “Very simply, we are aware we’ve become one of the most violent societies. It’s not what we were, even under apartheid.”
We are being overrun with a bunch of revisionist history on the web today to establish a new Camelot. Mythical. “EVERYBODY” loved each other. Bury their disputes. Bury their atrocities. Bury their hypocrisy.
We are being overrun with a bunch of revisionist history on the web today to establish a new Camelot. Mythical.
Best post I’ve seen in quite some time. Spot on!
South Africa, with America moving up from behind, has been turned into a dump.
60% of the populace (those that can read and write, that is) have stated they wished a return to the minority government.
With the exception of the Zulus, most of those living in and around J’burg are illegal aliens.
South Africa is another Zimbabwe. The current president, Zuma, is a dyed-in-the-wool communist.
Don’t you know Ian Smith was the George Washington of Rhodesia ?
Certainly has thrived after his departure.....
Was that the rubber tire version? He was a murderer and so was Winnie. No sadness here at the ranch.
He almost singlehandedly destroyed a prosperous nation and early went to prison for using terrorism to overthrow an elected government.
In America, we do not condone the actions of commie terrorists.
Uh-uh... nope... not so good when genuine belief in a genuine God is reduced to being regarded as “ideology.”
Ideology, if you must call it that, matters. Do pay attention to who the “man behind the curtain” is. He’s what is dominating your show, and if he seems okay today, will he be okay tomorrow?
Mark Levin has been interviewing Joe Pollack on his radio show.
RIP Nelson...How many streets in SA will be named Nelson Mandela Ave?
Now that paints a pretty picture uh ? !
That is probably closer than they will miss him
Ten days. This crap is going to go on for ten days.
It will be wall to wall. Worse than the Kennedy crap.
AND watch how much of his “history” starts in 1960. You will hear/see nothing of the ANC or the SACP from the time he joined them in 1944.
He may have been the man they are saying he was. But he was also a lot more.
It seems that “stability” is not all to be said about the picture. Relative strength matters too. We can and should thank God of course that SA wasn’t even worse than it was. But we shouldn’t be satisfied until factors (such as socialism) that drag men down are superseded by a God of freedom (and I don’t mean a “theocracy” which is a caricature of that).
Unfortunately, in America “commie terrorists” are now being condoned big time.
What I just found interesting is a bunch of conservatives on facebook have no qualms about calling Nelson Mandela a "communist terrorist" (in spite of the media image of him as a saintly heroic figure who ended apartheid in South Africa), yet those SAME conservatives have no problem of embracing the FANTASY image of JFK because "we have to convince today's RATs that their party has left them".
Nelson was no doubt a leftist and the ANC is a pretty strongly socialist political party (though not outright communist as some claim), but at least Nelson accomplished something in fighting apartheid and did the right thing by naming deClerk as Vice President during the transition and allowing allow legitimate multi-party elections (though again, it quickly became a one-party system due to the lack of a credible opposition party in SA). What did the saintly JFK EVER accomplish? I guess we're supposed to love him because he managed to NOT get us into World War III or something.
Worse than Mandela, IMO, is the media's other sainted figure from South Africa, Desmond Tutu. Now THERE'S a guy whose lovefest makes absolutely no sense. I think the media just loves him because he's an ultra-left wing "religious" figure, even if his "religious" title carried almost no weight in his country (I think Episcopalians are like 8% of the population in South Africa or something)
True enough... nothing should be worshiped except God. Any mortal icon will disappoint.
Facebook is a weird place (JFK of all people a conservative champion?), but it reflects a weird world.
Not worth a shit! But you knew that.A South African once told me it was SHIT!,real SHIT.He was right on. Another good communist.
Pollock comes across as an apologist,, Mandela was moderate in his eyes. At best he was a mixed bag, Like his friends in his early and later years,, Castro, Arafat, yaknow, the choice of the choice icons that screwed their own people for years and were worshipped by the lamebrain media as piece bringers and freedom fighters.
I had to tune it out.
So now we have a two week lovefest with Mandela by the MSM and cover for Obama, then Christmas and . . be still my heart. .
So when did Mandala throw the whites out of South Africa?
Tutu’s presence managed to keep at least some sort of connection to God in the picture. As diluted as he was, I don’t think he dipped to the depths of a Jeremiah Wright.
Modern south Africa ?
By chronology only.
He was a terrorist leader who during his years in prison figured out that he could better achieve his goals if he were the kindly, cooperative, just want to get along face of his movement. He let his POS former wife, family and followers be the enforcers and up front terrorists while remaining “apart” from all of that activity. He was a terrorist just the same and not deserving of the long life he led.
I imagine Barry is going to want the U.S. flags at half mast.
Mandela was OK by me. A socialist no doubt, a partisan for black South Africans, an insurgent at best, a terrorist at worst. But for an anti-colonial African leader who came to power in what was basically a revolution he was OK.
Look, we are talking about the continent that gave us Idi Amin, Omar Al-Bashir, and Robert Mugabe. He didn’t declare himself dictator for life, he did not steal every drop of money in the country, he did not have the entire white populace impaled on stakes first day in office. About as good as you are going to get in that area of the world. Most white Africans were probably praying that he would live to be 120... They should get out of there, like NOW.
"Crime is a prominent issue in South Africa. South Africa has a very high rate of murders, assaults, rapes (adult, child and infant), and other crimes compared to most countries. Most emigrants from South Africa state that crime was a big factor in their decision to leave."
More crime stats Here.
Was sitting on the plane next to a lady from Capetown last year. She obviously was well healed, said things were okay in her neighborhood in Capetown but that the crime rate and general quality of life had deteriorated since Mandela and especially after the guy who took over from him. Said there were roving gangs with AK's in the hinterlands, but not in Capetown. I got the definite impression from her that things weren't like they used to be. .
My take on Mandela is that he was an early communist, but like Clinton, became a moderate once in office. Mandela could have become Mao or really gone to the dark side in one way or another. He did back a South African constitution.
Joel Pollack's article at Breibart Here.
Obama didn't go to Margaret Thatcher's funeral. If he goes to Mandela's funeral . .
Another figment of the liberal mind
I thought he was good in “Se7en” and “The Shawshank Redemption”
Oh lord let the love fest begin....
My understand is that Mandela started out as an anti-Communist, until he realized who buttered the ANC’s bread.
You do realize that whites are being raped and murdered at very high levels in SA?
me too. They show their true colors when they lionize a fraud.
Congrats, idiotic post of the day!!
He never renounced terrorism. He never renounced coups in other countries like Nigeria, he never stopped being an ally of Gadhaffi.
BTW- The Daily Telegraph blogs have closed comments on all their posts, loving of course, about Mandela.
So what exactly is the cutoff for “things getting bad”? How many people dead constitutes “bad” in your book?
He was a stinking terrorist, jailed for possession of a huge stack of weapons and explosives, and 193 acts of terrorism. He was invited to negotiate numerous times, with only one condition, that he swears off violence, and he steadfastly refused.
Apartheid ended not because of him or the ANC, but despite them. They just happened to intimidate their way into power afterwards.