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Nelson Mandela, anti-apartheid icon and father of modern South Africa, dies
CNN ^ | 12-05-2013 | By Faith Karimi

Posted on 12/05/2013 2:11:15 PM PST by Red Badger

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To: Ben Hecks

More than a little. This Barack Obama is a maniacal nut, and the Surgeon General needs to put him in a rubber room.


101 posted on 12/05/2013 2:56:01 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: a fool in paradise

Fools&tools who do not know ANC’s history will stay forever enchanted by his quest.

Those who died at the behest of the ANC are silent at the news of his death.


102 posted on 12/05/2013 2:56:19 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: JimSEA

When an idol goes kerflooie, worship has to go somewhere else. It could go to another idol or it could go to God, but I doubt the evangelization has been good enough there for it to go to God this time around. Maybe they’ll all end up hailing Barack Obama, which he would love. Then we could ask him to quit and become the new president of South Africa and they would all deserve one another.


103 posted on 12/05/2013 2:57:59 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Red Badger

This was what I posted to Facebook when Maggie Thatcher died.

A few people in her may be able to relate:

What has happened to decency? I am totally disgusted with the national pastime of dancing on the graves of people you politically disagree with.

When a person dies, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the classy response is to be gracious and allow other people to honor them. There are very few Hitler, Stalin, Rios Montt and Torquemada types who were EVIL. Their names, as Proverbs says, will rot, and rightly so. Most people are instead a mixed bag. What is so horrible about granting them a little respect and kindness?

This business of being gleeful at the death of Ted Kennedy (as Breitbart did) or then celebrating the death of Breitbart and using the justification that “he did it to Kennedy” is despicable, childish, peevish, classless and hate filled.

.... let me say to any of my “progressive” friends who have said the most despicable things about Margaret Thatcher: Don’t hand me your crap about love and tolerance and joy and all the faux moralisms of the left while you engage in this kind of petty and hateful stuff. The woman is dead. At the WORST, she caused the gap between rich and poor to increase and engaged in a needless short military conflict with Argentina, and furthered the rise of corporatism. These are contested opinions, as well (two of which I agree with) She did not leave piles of bodies, she did not preside over multitudes plunged into penury. If you are so wedded to your political ideology that you cannot distinguish between the incendiary rhetoric of the political left and reality, then you really have nothing intelligent to say and should stop embarrassing yourself, and just shut up. You CERTAINLY have nothing to say about the crap I hear about “love” and “tolerance” and “acceptance.”

If your response to this is “well, the bible bangers do it!” I will say “yes, that does happen. That is,in fact the point, isn’t it. You are both mirror images of the ones you say you hate. I know how it is, btw. It is a delicious evil to chomp into a misery sandwich of celebration of the death of someone you REALLY did not like. It is there in me,as well as in you. It is a celebration of the evil you say you dislike in the other person.

Mirror, anyone?

RIP Margaret Thatcher.


104 posted on 12/05/2013 3:11:26 PM PST by AK_47_7.62x39 (There are many moderate Muslims, but there is no such thing as a moderate Islam. -- Geert Wilders)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Mandela could have been gracious and turned the glory to God... which would have been a segue to racial harmony... “

Nonsense. After all those years in prison, he chose to have De Clerk as a deputy in his administration. They managed to maintain a market economy despite the fact that three hard left wing organizations make up the core of the ANC. They’re the only decent economy in subsaharan africa. They didn’t drive the whites farmers out or confiscate all of their lands, they let them stick around and simply levied taxes on them. Any fair comparison between SA and Zimbabwe shows people what could have been. If he’d come out of prison mean and vindictive(as he arguably had every right to be) he could have rounded up and slaughtered a bunch of people and destroyed their economy at the same time.

The Mandela situation is a lot like the MLK Jr. situation. People want to focus on their ideology rather than the pragmatism of their decisionmaking and their ability to navigate through without provoking wide spread physical conflict. It would have been so easy for either the US or the SA situations in the sixties to have devolved into bitter long term partisan violence.

I don’t see why it’s so hard for people to just tip their hat and move on. People can call him a terrorist, but I doubt there are more than a handful of freepers that wouldn’t have their guns at the ready if our government tried to treat us that way. He’s a man with flaws who handled things pretty well, all things considered. I think people don’t realize how bad things in SA could get if the racist populist types like his ex wife or Julius Malema ever truly gain control in the country. The same types of political idiots who’ve run Zimbabwe into the ground make up a sizeable chunk of the ANC. The fact that SA has maintained a favorable business climate over the last few decades is remarkable, all things considered, and it’s mostly stems from his decision to set a more moderate tone despite the fact that ANC had the power to do anything they liked.


105 posted on 12/05/2013 3:14:02 PM PST by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war alwaysmeans failure.")
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To: AK_47_7.62x39

Good post.


106 posted on 12/05/2013 3:14:07 PM PST by x
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To: Red Badger

http://www.censorbugbear.org/black-racism/terrorism/nelson-mandela-the-bombing-record


107 posted on 12/05/2013 3:14:30 PM PST by Ironfocus
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To: Blackyce
The Mandela situation is a lot like the MLK Jr. situation. People want to focus on their ideology rather than the pragmatism of their decisionmaking and their ability to navigate through without provoking wide spread physical conflict. It would have been so easy for either the US or the SA situations in the sixties to have devolved into bitter long term partisan violence.

Good point. White rule and apartheid South Africa weren't going to last forever. Their end could have been a lot more violent and destructive without Mandela and de Klerk.

108 posted on 12/05/2013 3:16:21 PM PST by x
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To: AK_47_7.62x39

Also, scapegoating a mortal figure, even a prominent one, doesn’t further the battle of good against evil. It only distracts us. Did Mandela do anything good at all, well we should try not to stop that. Did Mandela fail, and yield to sin or leave good things undone. Well we should try to remedy that. And God is whom we should be looking to in order to get it done.


109 posted on 12/05/2013 3:16:56 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Red Badger

Mandela - The "Great Statesman"

Mandela with SACP boss, Joe Slovo

"Nelson Mandela is a symbol, an icon, one of the world's most famous statesmen, recognised and revered by all. He dines with royalty, associates with the world's great leaders and his opinion is sought and valued on all weighty matters. He has achieved an almost divine status in the world, equal to that of the Pope or the late Princess Diana." Most people on the left of the political spectrum would agree wholeheartedly with the above quote. But they run into an unexpected problem when someone asks "why is he considered such a great statesman?" The problem is that Mandela, apart from having a likeable personality, has achieved next to nothing in his relatively short political career which saw South Africa rapidly decline to the status of the world's most violent and crime-ridden country, and, to add to the confusion, his greatest friends are communists and dictators like Fidel Castro, Moammar Qaddafi, Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein. His ex-wife Winnie Mandela, whom he quickly jettisoned when it became clear she was a considerable embarassment to his political career, is a self-confessed advocate of terrorism and violence and has even committed murder. In his public statements and speeches Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the remaining communist dictatorships of the world. He condemns mistakes and controversial policies of the west, but refuses to publicly condemn the genocides and brutal repression of current or former communist countries; he is supposedly a "champion of freedom and democracy", the "hero of oppressed people everywhere" but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice... Perhaps this is what makes Mandela such a revered statesman - chameleon-like he can advocate democracy and freedom as the highest ideals one day and hold up Cuba or Libya as shining examples for the world to follow the next day. And his admirers do not even notice the contradiction, or worse, they agree with him... Many of his apologists optimistically claim that Mandela may well have had "communist leanings" in his past, but that he has since put all that behind him and become a moderate in his political beliefs. They are perhaps unaware of his fulsome praise of a communist dictatorship as late as 1991 when he and Winnie went to what they called their "second home" - Cuba - to celebrate the communist revolution with Fidel Castro. In his speech Mandela said:
"Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people."
Mandela's adulation of Castro and Cuba almost outshines that of his own admirers. In May of 1990 Mandela, visiting America, went on record, referring to Cuba:
There's one thing where that country stands out head and shoulders above the rest. That is in its love for human rights and liberty.
A week later in Libya, he lauded Qaddafi's:
Committment to the fight for peace and human rights in the world.
While in America Mandela also made public statements that amounted to support for violence and terrorism in the furtherance of political aims. In a speech in Harlem, referring to four Puerto Rican terrorists who shot and wounded five US Congressmen in 1954, he said:
We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer to.
Suitable "comrades" for Mandela indeed. He was himself originally incarcerated, not for his political views, but for involvement in 23 different acts of sabotage and conspiring to overthrow the government. He and his fellow conspirators of the ANC and the South African Communist Party were caught by the police while in the possession of 48,000 Soviet-made anti-personnel mines and 210,000 hand-grenades!* It is also interesting to note that in later years Mandela was offered his freedom by none other than the South African President Botha if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism, but Mandela refused to do this. Winnie Mandela has been equally fulsome in her praise of Communism and violence. In 1986 she was reported in Moscow's communist party newspaper Pravda as saying:
The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction.
and again at Munsieville, on April 13, 1986, she said:
With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.
referring here to her own specific brand of democratic political activity whereby anyone who opposed her would be bound hand and foot and then burned to death by means of a tyre filled with gasoline being placed around the neck and set on fire.

Has Mandela since changed his tune in any way?

In September, 2002, Mandela gave an interview to "Newsweek" and the following summary gives his views on the situation with regard to the Iraq crisis:

You will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace…. It (war against Iraq) is clearly a decision that is motivated by George W. Bush’s desire to please the arms and oil industries in the United States of America…When there were white (UN) secretary generals you didn’t find this question of the United States and Britain going out of the United Nations. But now that you’ve had black secretary generals like Boutros Boutros Ghali, like Kofi Annan, they do not respect the United Nations. They have contempt for it… It is the men around him (Cheney and Rumsfeld) who are dinosaurs, who do not want him (President Bush) to belong to the modern age… The only man, the only person who wants to help Bush move to the modern era is Gen. Colin Powell.
No-one will deny Mandela the right to hold views opposed to a war on Iraq, but he is here revealing his own racist attitude to world politics - only white leaders are a threat to peace, and especially so when there are black secretary generals of the U.N. And in case we don't get the message he singles out the black member of the US administration, Colin Powell, as the only exception! (And, one could add, when it suits Mandela's argument, the Egyptian Boutros Ghali, suddenly qualifies as a "black" man...) The race card is one that is always brought out by Africans when they lack valid arguments, and it has always been a standard ploy of Communist rhetoric. To Mandela's way of thinking, it is capitalist greed that is preventing a one-world U.N. Government - in February 2003 he was reported as saying:
"if there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America...Iraq produces 64 percent of the oil in the world. What Bush wants is to get hold of that oil."
Apart from displaying his Communist sentiments, Mandela here also reveals his ignorance of world economics - Iraq produces only 5% of world oil exports, not 64%. He also makes no mention of the huge debts of money that Iraq owes France, Germany and Russia, and that it is just possible that they are opposed to the war because they would like those debts paid. If Mandela's opposition to the United States comes as a surprise to some, or are dismissed as an expression of particularly strong feelings about the Iraq crisis, we should note that Mandela is nothing if not consistent. His views are always anti-American and pro-Communist, and always have been. In his book "The Struggle is My Life", a collection of his writings, we read in a piece dated 1958:
...the people of Asia and Africa have seen through the slanderous campaign conducted by the U.S.A. against the Socialist countries. They know that their independence is threatened not by any of the countries in the Socialist camp but by the U.S.A., who has surrounded their continent with military bases. The Communist bogey is an American stunt to distract the attention of the people of Africa from the real issue facing them, namely, American imperialism. (pp 76)

* The full list of munitions and charges read as follows:
• One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;
• One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and
• Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:
1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in: (a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explo- sives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder); (b) the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic; (ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);
(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;
(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;
(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered:
  • (a) the health or safety of the public;
  • (b) the maintenance of law and order;
  • (c) the supply and distribution of light, power or fuel;
  • (d) postal, telephone or telegraph installations;
  • (e) the free movement of traffic on land; and
  • (f) the property, movable or immovable, of other persons or of the state.
Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

 

 MORE


110 posted on 12/05/2013 3:16:59 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have entered an invalid birthday)
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To: Blackyce
The fact that SA has maintained a favorable business climate over the last few decades is remarkable, all things considered, and it’s mostly stems from his decision to set a more moderate tone despite the fact that ANC had the power to do anything they liked.

They still need to answer for the Vuvuzela.


111 posted on 12/05/2013 3:17:26 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
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To: x

Well now that Mandela has passed off the scene, what will happen next. I hope it isn’t just riots. That’s the trouble with a small-s savior who makes himself an idol instead of pointing to God. Once he’s off the mortal coil... vacuum city.


112 posted on 12/05/2013 3:18:37 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: dfwgator; Blackyce

Oh that horn is such an abomination isn’t it.


113 posted on 12/05/2013 3:19:32 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Red Badger

RIP Nelson Mandela - I hope all h*ll doesn’t break out in the wake of your death. (Ha, no pun intended.)


114 posted on 12/05/2013 3:20:43 PM PST by jocon307
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To: Blackyce

God is not nonsense, and to flout God is nonsense and foolish. We of course should be glad that God did not let the situation fail as bad as Zimbabwe had. Nonetheless to deify Mandela is wrong too. That kind of allegiance only belongs to God. With Mandela’s being gone, comes the acid test of his legacy. If it fails, it’s at least in part because he did not emphasize God enough.


115 posted on 12/05/2013 3:23:43 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: MacNaughton

I cannot find the article I saw just last month from a British source (BBC? Guardian?) that had Tutu criticizing the ANC and Mandela.

I do offer up this:

Troubled South Africa Debates Impact of White Rule
AP ^ | April 12, 2013 | CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3007539/posts
Few South Africans have the moral stature of retired archbishop Desmond Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who campaigned against apartheid and now laments the crime and inequality that plague the nation two decades after it cast off racist white rule.

“We can’t pretend we have remained at the same heights and that’s why I say please, for goodness’ sake, recover the spirit that made us great,” Tutu said. “Very simply, we are aware we’ve become one of the most violent societies. It’s not what we were, even under apartheid.”



We are being overrun with a bunch of revisionist history on the web today to establish a new Camelot. Mythical. “EVERYBODY” loved each other. Bury their disputes. Bury their atrocities. Bury their hypocrisy.



We are being overrun with a bunch of revisionist history on the web today to establish a new Camelot. Mythical.


116 posted on 12/05/2013 3:28:03 PM PST by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: Blackyce

Best post I’ve seen in quite some time. Spot on!


117 posted on 12/05/2013 3:28:36 PM PST by Cousin Eddie
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To: Red Badger

South Africa, with America moving up from behind, has been turned into a dump.

60% of the populace (those that can read and write, that is) have stated they wished a return to the minority government.

With the exception of the Zulus, most of those living in and around J’burg are illegal aliens.

South Africa is another Zimbabwe. The current president, Zuma, is a dyed-in-the-wool communist.


118 posted on 12/05/2013 3:29:57 PM PST by IbJensen (Liberals are like Slinkies, good for nothing, but you smile as you push them down the stairs.)
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To: mort56

Now mort56
Don’t you know Ian Smith was the George Washington of Rhodesia ?
Certainly has thrived after his departure.....
Jus sayin


119 posted on 12/05/2013 3:30:05 PM PST by aumrl (let's keep it real Conservatives)
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To: Calvin Locke

Was that the rubber tire version? He was a murderer and so was Winnie. No sadness here at the ranch.


120 posted on 12/05/2013 3:30:42 PM PST by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: Blackyce

He almost singlehandedly destroyed a prosperous nation and early went to prison for using terrorism to overthrow an elected government.

In America, we do not condone the actions of commie terrorists.


121 posted on 12/05/2013 3:31:05 PM PST by Oliviaforever
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To: Cousin Eddie; Blackyce

Uh-uh... nope... not so good when genuine belief in a genuine God is reduced to being regarded as “ideology.”

Ideology, if you must call it that, matters. Do pay attention to who the “man behind the curtain” is. He’s what is dominating your show, and if he seems okay today, will he be okay tomorrow?


122 posted on 12/05/2013 3:31:28 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Cousin Eddie

Mark Levin has been interviewing Joe Pollack on his radio show.


123 posted on 12/05/2013 3:31:38 PM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Red Badger

RIP Nelson...How many streets in SA will be named Nelson Mandela Ave?


124 posted on 12/05/2013 3:32:33 PM PST by ExCTCitizen (Ben Carson/Rand Paul or Sara/Nikki in 2016)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Now that paints a pretty picture uh ? !


125 posted on 12/05/2013 3:32:53 PM PST by snooter55 (People may doubt what you say, but they will always believe what you do)
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To: Red Badger

That is probably closer than they will miss him


126 posted on 12/05/2013 3:37:31 PM PST by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
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To: GOPsterinMA

Ten days. This crap is going to go on for ten days.

It will be wall to wall. Worse than the Kennedy crap.

AND watch how much of his “history” starts in 1960. You will hear/see nothing of the ANC or the SACP from the time he joined them in 1944.

He may have been the man they are saying he was. But he was also a lot more.


127 posted on 12/05/2013 3:37:53 PM PST by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Oliviaforever

It seems that “stability” is not all to be said about the picture. Relative strength matters too. We can and should thank God of course that SA wasn’t even worse than it was. But we shouldn’t be satisfied until factors (such as socialism) that drag men down are superseded by a God of freedom (and I don’t mean a “theocracy” which is a caricature of that).

Unfortunately, in America “commie terrorists” are now being condoned big time.


128 posted on 12/05/2013 3:39:52 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Impy
>> We are being overrun with a bunch of revisionist history on the web today to establish a new Camelot. <<

What I just found interesting is a bunch of conservatives on facebook have no qualms about calling Nelson Mandela a "communist terrorist" (in spite of the media image of him as a saintly heroic figure who ended apartheid in South Africa), yet those SAME conservatives have no problem of embracing the FANTASY image of JFK because "we have to convince today's RATs that their party has left them".

Nelson was no doubt a leftist and the ANC is a pretty strongly socialist political party (though not outright communist as some claim), but at least Nelson accomplished something in fighting apartheid and did the right thing by naming deClerk as Vice President during the transition and allowing allow legitimate multi-party elections (though again, it quickly became a one-party system due to the lack of a credible opposition party in SA). What did the saintly JFK EVER accomplish? I guess we're supposed to love him because he managed to NOT get us into World War III or something.

Worse than Mandela, IMO, is the media's other sainted figure from South Africa, Desmond Tutu. Now THERE'S a guy whose lovefest makes absolutely no sense. I think the media just loves him because he's an ultra-left wing "religious" figure, even if his "religious" title carried almost no weight in his country (I think Episcopalians are like 8% of the population in South Africa or something)

129 posted on 12/05/2013 3:40:29 PM PST by BillyBoy (Liz Cheney's family supports gay marriage. Do you?)
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To: BillyBoy

True enough... nothing should be worshiped except God. Any mortal icon will disappoint.

Facebook is a weird place (JFK of all people a conservative champion?), but it reflects a weird world.


130 posted on 12/05/2013 3:42:47 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: billyboy15

Not worth a shit! But you knew that.A South African once told me it was SHIT!,real SHIT.He was right on. Another good communist.


131 posted on 12/05/2013 3:44:08 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: Biggirl

Pollock comes across as an apologist,, Mandela was moderate in his eyes. At best he was a mixed bag, Like his friends in his early and later years,, Castro, Arafat, yaknow, the choice of the choice icons that screwed their own people for years and were worshipped by the lamebrain media as piece bringers and freedom fighters.

I had to tune it out.


132 posted on 12/05/2013 3:44:31 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: Red Badger
"Saint" Mandela? Not So Fast! -- He's a Communist, Terrorist, and a Liar.

Mandela communist photos.

So now we have a two week lovefest with Mandela by the MSM and cover for Obama, then Christmas and . . be still my heart. .

133 posted on 12/05/2013 3:44:59 PM PST by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only Hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: billyboy15
So then, since Mandela had the whites thrown out of SA, how have things gone for the blacks?

So when did Mandala throw the whites out of South Africa?

134 posted on 12/05/2013 3:45:41 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: BillyBoy

Tutu’s presence managed to keep at least some sort of connection to God in the picture. As diluted as he was, I don’t think he dipped to the depths of a Jeremiah Wright.


135 posted on 12/05/2013 3:47:56 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Red Badger

Modern south Africa ?
By chronology only.


136 posted on 12/05/2013 3:54:46 PM PST by Recompennation (Constitutional protection for all not just selectively for Democrats.)
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To: GeronL

He was a terrorist leader who during his years in prison figured out that he could better achieve his goals if he were the kindly, cooperative, just want to get along face of his movement. He let his POS former wife, family and followers be the enforcers and up front terrorists while remaining “apart” from all of that activity. He was a terrorist just the same and not deserving of the long life he led.


137 posted on 12/05/2013 4:02:02 PM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Red Badger

I imagine Barry is going to want the U.S. flags at half mast.


138 posted on 12/05/2013 4:15:06 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (If you think signing up for ObamaCare was fun, wait until you try to use it.)
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To: Red Badger

Mandela was OK by me. A socialist no doubt, a partisan for black South Africans, an insurgent at best, a terrorist at worst. But for an anti-colonial African leader who came to power in what was basically a revolution he was OK.

Look, we are talking about the continent that gave us Idi Amin, Omar Al-Bashir, and Robert Mugabe. He didn’t declare himself dictator for life, he did not steal every drop of money in the country, he did not have the entire white populace impaled on stakes first day in office. About as good as you are going to get in that area of the world. Most white Africans were probably praying that he would live to be 120... They should get out of there, like NOW.


139 posted on 12/05/2013 4:17:03 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: Biggirl
Joel Pollack on Levin stating things have deteriorated in South Africa with higher crime rate. He also just said, "Social justice means they (SA) redistribute to themselves."

"Crime is a prominent issue in South Africa. South Africa has a very high rate of murders, assaults, rapes (adult, child and infant), and other crimes compared to most countries. Most emigrants from South Africa state that crime was a big factor in their decision to leave."

More crime stats Here.

Was sitting on the plane next to a lady from Capetown last year. She obviously was well healed, said things were okay in her neighborhood in Capetown but that the crime rate and general quality of life had deteriorated since Mandela and especially after the guy who took over from him. Said there were roving gangs with AK's in the hinterlands, but not in Capetown. I got the definite impression from her that things weren't like they used to be. .

My take on Mandela is that he was an early communist, but like Clinton, became a moderate once in office. Mandela could have become Mao or really gone to the dark side in one way or another. He did back a South African constitution.

Joel Pollack's article at Breibart Here.

Obama didn't go to Margaret Thatcher's funeral. If he goes to Mandela's funeral . .

140 posted on 12/05/2013 4:22:54 PM PST by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only Hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: Red Badger

Another figment of the liberal mind


141 posted on 12/05/2013 4:22:59 PM PST by Altura Ct.
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To: Red Badger

I thought he was good in “Se7en” and “The Shawshank Redemption”


142 posted on 12/05/2013 4:24:58 PM PST by IChing
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To: tumblindice

Oh lord let the love fest begin....


143 posted on 12/05/2013 4:25:53 PM PST by wardaddy (choctaw bingo)
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To: Red Badger

             

144 posted on 12/05/2013 4:33:12 PM PST by tomkat
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To: BurningOak

My understand is that Mandela started out as an anti-Communist, until he realized who buttered the ANC’s bread.


145 posted on 12/05/2013 4:35:56 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
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To: Blackyce

You do realize that whites are being raped and murdered at very high levels in SA?


146 posted on 12/05/2013 4:36:46 PM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: NormsRevenge

me too. They show their true colors when they lionize a fraud.


147 posted on 12/05/2013 4:38:59 PM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Blackyce
They didn’t drive the whites farmers out or confiscate all of their lands, they let them stick around and simply levied taxes on them.

Congrats, idiotic post of the day!!

148 posted on 12/05/2013 4:41:40 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism" Vladimir Lenin)
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To: RJS1950

He never renounced terrorism. He never renounced coups in other countries like Nigeria, he never stopped being an ally of Gadhaffi.

BTW- The Daily Telegraph blogs have closed comments on all their posts, loving of course, about Mandela.


149 posted on 12/05/2013 4:46:17 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Blackyce

So what exactly is the cutoff for “things getting bad”? How many people dead constitutes “bad” in your book?

He was a stinking terrorist, jailed for possession of a huge stack of weapons and explosives, and 193 acts of terrorism. He was invited to negotiate numerous times, with only one condition, that he swears off violence, and he steadfastly refused.

Apartheid ended not because of him or the ANC, but despite them. They just happened to intimidate their way into power afterwards.


150 posted on 12/05/2013 4:51:46 PM PST by Ironfocus
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