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In a flap over flags: If Scotland goes it alone, what flag does the rest of the UK wave?
Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 5th December 2013 | Jim Norton

Posted on 12/05/2013 2:49:25 PM PST by naturalman1975

After nearly 400 years of symbolising four nations united in one flag, what would the Union Flag look like without the blue and white of the Saltire?

The question is being posed by flag experts after a poll found nearly 65 per cent were in favour of changing the flag if Scotland votes Yes to independence.

The vexillologists, as they are known, have come up with designs that could replace the familiar red, white and blue flag.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: flag; flags; scotland; unitedkingdom
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If Scotland does choose to leave the United Kingdom (and I hope they don't), it would seem to me only sensible to remove the St Andrew's flag from the Union Flag.

I actually think the first design in the article is appropriate in that situation - while the St David's flag is a fairly recent invention, the association of gold and black with St David is much older, and the incorporation (finally) of Welsh symbolism alongside that of England and Ireland would seem to me appropriate - and a deliberate decision of a design that incorporates the patron Saints of England, Wales, and Ireland, would be an reassertion of Britain's historically Christian identity at a time when this identity is fading.

From an aesthetic point of view, I don't like the design much, but there's more important issues than the aesthetics.

1 posted on 12/05/2013 2:49:25 PM PST by naturalman1975
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To: naturalman1975
the UK allows Scotland to vote for independence

I demand the socialist USA grant us in Louisiana the vote for independence

2 posted on 12/05/2013 2:52:46 PM PST by Democrat_media (Obama ordered IRS to rig 2012 election and must resign)
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To: naturalman1975

Of course I like the really girly one, with the circle and the flowers and all, but honestly if those are the choices I’d stick with what they have.


3 posted on 12/05/2013 2:53:17 PM PST by jocon307
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To: naturalman1975

well I guess the cross of St Andrew will be removed from the Union Jack..

Leaving the red and white of St George and the other one...used to know it...


4 posted on 12/05/2013 2:55:30 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

St Patrick’s - symbolising Northern Ireland.


5 posted on 12/05/2013 2:56:34 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: Democrat_media

They aren’t thinking far enough ahead....they may as well add a star and crescent now.


6 posted on 12/05/2013 2:57:28 PM PST by JoeDetweiler
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To: naturalman1975

I’d say the Red Cross of St. George on White Field as the Kingdom did before the Union, but that would be too Christian and the Brits are not really a Christian nation anymore.


7 posted on 12/05/2013 2:58:28 PM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Democrat_media

Same here for Texas.
If we want it we will have to claim it the old fashioned way though.
A vote won’t do, as the regime needs our money and resources far too badly to allow us actual self government.


8 posted on 12/05/2013 2:59:38 PM PST by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: naturalman1975
Cute: Why America Must Say No to Scotland’s Independence From Great Britain


9 posted on 12/05/2013 2:59:51 PM PST by Theoria (Obama lied. My health care died.)
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To: naturalman1975

Sad in a way. Hundreds of years of history, and the Empire goes down to the EU.


10 posted on 12/05/2013 3:00:19 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: naturalman1975
Assuming England would still have the Welsh to kick around looks extremely arrogant, and very ... well ... British.

If Scotland becomes independent, why wouldn't Wales follow suit?

11 posted on 12/05/2013 3:01:28 PM PST by x
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To: Democrat_media
the UK allows Scotland to vote for independence
I demand the socialist USA grant us in Louisiana the vote for independence


Let's make it a Luoisiana “unpurchase” and we'll join you!
12 posted on 12/05/2013 3:02:18 PM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (Ride for the Brand. Joshua 24:15)
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To: jocon307
Of course I like the really girly one, with the circle and the flowers and all, but honestly if those are the choices I’d stick with what they have.

But is that appropriate?

That's the nub of the problem. The white Saltire Cross on a blue field is the symbol of the Patron Saint of Scotland, and was added to the red cross on white St George flag of England specifically to signify the Union of the two nations in 1707 (the union had occurred in 1701). In 1801, the red saltire cross of St Patrick was added to signify Ireland being incorporated into the Union.

If Scotland leaves the union, leaving the symbol of Scotland on the flag would go against its previous history.

They could go to a flag that simply removed the blue field, but any change creates an opportunity to acknowledge Wales as well - currently suggestions to do so have tended to be dismissed as making the flag look too complex.

13 posted on 12/05/2013 3:03:05 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975

My vote goes for the one that looks most like the Union Jack, with just the blue replaced by black.


14 posted on 12/05/2013 3:04:56 PM PST by expat2
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To: naturalman1975

Should we not consult Scottish law for the answer to this one?


15 posted on 12/05/2013 3:06:58 PM PST by fhayek
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To: x

Wales has as much right to independence as Scotland - but at the moment, shows little sign of wanting independence at the moment. It’s a voluntary union nowadays - and incorporating Welsh symbolism into the Union Flag would symbolise that it is an equal part of that voluntary union.


16 posted on 12/05/2013 3:09:03 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: fhayek

No, because the question would be a question for the Parliament of the United Kingdom of England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Scots law would not be relevant.

Courtesy might suggest some degree of consultation, but there’s no relevant legal issue.


17 posted on 12/05/2013 3:11:30 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: expat2

That would work as well - again, replacing the recognition of Scotland, with symbolism drawn from Wales.


18 posted on 12/05/2013 3:12:54 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: JoeDetweiler


19 posted on 12/05/2013 3:13:20 PM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: naturalman1975
Scots law would not be relevant.

Arlen Sphincter would be rolling over in his grave.

20 posted on 12/05/2013 3:13:48 PM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
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