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Initial Police Response In Sandy Hook Shooting Scrutinized
The Courant ^ | November 22, 2013 | Dave Altimari

Posted on 12/06/2013 5:09:25 AM PST by Uncle Chip

Officers stopped well short of school, approached by foot

State police investigating the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting have focused some of their efforts on the police response, interviewing local officers to iron out inconsistencies in their versions of events ....

"We know that our response will be heavily scrutinized as it should be and I am confident that our officers acted aggressively and appropriately in response to a chaotic scene,'' police union President Scott Ruszczyk said. "I think it's pretty tough to second-guess the guys who were there responding to a chaotic scene."

Among the aspects of the response under scrutiny was a decision by the first responding Newtown officer to park nearly a quarter-mile away on the street to the school and wait for other officers to arrive. Those officers moved to the school on foot along the tree line....

Dispatch records show that the first 911 call came in just before 9:36 a.m. and that the first officer arrived at the school about 9:37:30. The dispatch tapes indicate that there were officers in the school at 9:44 a.m., but don't make clear exactly when the first officer entered....

Sedensky told them during the meeting that state police and Newtown officers entered the building simultaneously....

"There was a thought that there was a second shooter. They had a man running around the outside of the school,'' Ruszczyk said. "My guys don't believe they did anything wrong that day."...

Kehoe has told The Courant that the department's active shooter policy, last updated in 2002, is clear that officers should enter a building in which there is a shooter and find the threat as quickly as possible. They are not to wait for command staff or SWAT officers to arrive.

(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: newtown; sandyhook
Then what were they waiting for, chief???

Your cavalry were certainly in no hurry to enter that building to rescue those children.

Please explain what they were doing for 6 minutes and why when they finally did enter the building they did so from the back of the building -- as far away from the shooter as possible.

1 posted on 12/06/2013 5:09:25 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
"I think it's pretty tough to second-guess the guys who were there responding to a chaotic scene."

Ummm, no it's not. Kids, school, active shooter. Turn in your badge and get a job tending flowers.

2 posted on 12/06/2013 5:17:54 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (Play the 'Knockout Game' with someone owning a 9mm and you get what you deserve)
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To: Uncle Chip

Wow. Dial 911 and die.


3 posted on 12/06/2013 5:21:52 AM PST by FrdmLvr ("WE ARE ALL OSAMA, 0BAMA!" al-Qaeda terrorists who breached the American compound in Benghazi)
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To: Uncle Chip

I expect they spent the first few minutes coordinating with each other to avoid fratricide and ensure complete coverage to prevent the shooter from escaping and slaughtering defenseless civilians outside of the facility, since several police departments were involved. 7 minutes seems eminently reasonable, especially since every incident location has a different layout.


4 posted on 12/06/2013 5:28:12 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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First Responder to Sandy Hook Slaughter Parked 1/4 Mile from School and Waited for Backup

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3094511/posts

Apparently they were waiting for him to commit suicide before they went in as well but he didn’t oblige them.


5 posted on 12/06/2013 5:29:23 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

What we are running into here are protocols.

There are established protocols that stop emergency responders, and they work a bit like zero tolerance, break the protocols and you are in trouble.

An example An ambulance responds to an overdose, The protocol is to wait for the arrival of police to secure the scene before ambulance personnel are allowed to proceed. So the ambulance sits at a staging area and waits for the police while someone who took too many pills is inside. without treatment.

The protocols are set up for the protection of the responder, but do not have clauses to provide for different situations.
I feel that the first police on the scene were doing what their protocols called for, they waited for backup and for the scene to be made as secure as possible. In the meantime people are inside dying, and one brave officer could have saved many lives. I am not totally against protocols, but like all plans they do not provide for circumstances.

But what the heck everyone who arrived went home safe.

Protocols save responders lives I suppose, but when you take a job as Firefighter or police officer you have to realize that sometimes you have to place your life in danger to protect those you are sworn to protect. You have to assess the situation on your own and do what is necessary. Zero tolerance protocols be damned.


6 posted on 12/06/2013 5:33:02 AM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Zhang Fei

It appears that it wasn’t reasonable in their minds because they are trying to justify their slow response by claiming that shortly after they all arrived on the scene the shooter committed suicide — when in truth they know that he was still firing in there and didn’t fire the final shot until about 11 minutes later.

They admit that he didn’t kill himself until they began to close in on him and they didn’t begin to do that for atleast 6 minutes.


7 posted on 12/06/2013 5:38:00 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

They all went home safe for their families.

/s


8 posted on 12/06/2013 5:51:34 AM PST by hadaclueonce (Because Brawndo's got electrolytes. Because Ethanol has Big Corn Lobby)
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To: Uncle Chip

The cops I know would not have stood idly by while children were slaughtered. Protocols be damned, the guys I know would have stormed inside and engaged the target without hesitation.

Against protocol? Probably. But someone killing children should activate circuitry inside you that overcomes “protocol”.


9 posted on 12/06/2013 5:54:29 AM PST by VideoPaul
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To: Uncle Chip

Taxpayers pay an ever increasing amount of money to law enforcement to “protect and serve”. We also pay our soldiers to protect our liberties.

The soldier is willing and able to put themselves into the field of fire to save others or win the battle. Law enforcement stays back in staging area until the violence has subsided.

The soldiers’ bodies are beaten and broken with the constant demands of training. They deploy frequently. They return home with PTSD, healed fractures, battered backs. They fight through injury, adverse conditions, bad weather, and people shooting at them.

Law enforcement gets fat. They seldom train for conflict. If they get a little injury they go on disability.

They both get to retire typically after 20 years. The soldier gets half his base pay average over the past 3 years (no special pays or anything counts). Law enforcement typically gets about 80% of their total earnings over the last 3 years.

Go figure...


10 posted on 12/06/2013 5:57:22 AM PST by msrngtp2002 (Just my opinion.)
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To: Venturer
Protocols save responders lives I suppose, but when you take a job as Firefighter or police officer you have to realize that sometimes you have to place your life in danger to protect those you are sworn to protect. You have to assess the situation on your own and do what is necessary. Zero tolerance protocols be damned.

You risk your life. Then you end your chances of promotion because you violated protocol. It's a nice thought, but it's clear why people don't break the rules. It's that stupid McCain idea that we'll make waterboarding illegal, but intrepid agents will waterboard at their discretion, and we'll decide after the fact if we'll end their careers or imprison them for decades. Nobody's gonna take that risk for someone who isn't a blood relative or a close friend.

11 posted on 12/06/2013 5:58:53 AM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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Here is an interview with one of two mothers who witnessed the 8 to 10 kids running down to the firehouse [obviously Soto’s kids] as they drove up to the school and stood for a few minutes by the broken plate glass window at the front of the school holding a conversation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptbd6qRY358

There were no law enforcement present at the front door at that time. Where were they??? More than likely they were all in the school at this point. So this is after 9:46 when they all apparently went in.

And then after a few minutes what do they hear — gunshots ring out. So obviously he was still alive even after 9:46.

Question:

Did the investigators even bother to interview these women before they invented the claim that he committed suicide a minute and a half after they arrived and before they entered the school???

How long does it take a first grader to run a quarter mile from the school to the firehouse???


12 posted on 12/06/2013 6:05:39 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Zhang Fei

Check the timeline, boys and girls.
The ONLY solution that would minimize carnage would be armed folks IN POSTION, AT THE SCHOOL.

That would be guns/in school/ with the kiddy-poos.

Can’t have that now, can we Sarah Brady?

So, we double-down on stupid, AGAIN.


13 posted on 12/06/2013 6:09:55 AM PST by Flintlock ( islam is a lie, mohammed was a criminal, shira is poison)
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To: Venturer
There are established protocols that stop emergency responders

But how can that be???

"Kehoe told The Courant that the department's active shooter policy, last updated in 2002, is clear that officers should enter a building in which there is a shooter and find the threat as quickly as possible. They are not to wait for command staff or SWAT officers to arrive."

Are there secret protocols that override police department policies -- Protocols of the Elders of Newtown perhaps???

14 posted on 12/06/2013 6:17:48 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

I don’t know their protocols, but I suspect this guy is lying.

If he isn’t he just called the first officers to arrive on the scene a pack of cowards, because they did just the opposite of what he said was the present rule.


15 posted on 12/06/2013 6:27:18 AM PST by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Uncle Chip

1st officer parked a 1/4 mile from school to await orders? That is a cowardly disgrace! Once the report of shooting in the school came in it was incumbent on the police to enter the school. Real cops are trained for this....the bottom line is how teachers and children were slaughtered while the cops set up a perimeter, donned their riot gear and walked to the school.


16 posted on 12/06/2013 6:40:24 AM PST by kenmcg
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To: Venturer

It’s all irrelevant anyway according to the Connecticut Police Chiefs Association Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting report:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/189695580/CPCA-Newtown-Report-Final

Since the shooter is believed to have committed suicide at 09:40:03 hours, Newtown Officers were on scene a total of 1 minute and 10 seconds before the shooter committed suicide.....

[So the first responders here didn’t have the time or the necessity to actually go in and stop him because they heard him commit suicide right after they got there — they are trained to identify a final shot when they hear one and can discern a suicide shot from a homicide shot]

Ohhh but wait —

At 09:41:07 hours, the patrol sergeant reported that the last shots heard came from the front of the building.

At 09:42:27 hours, the sergeant repeated that shots were heard at the front of the building, possibly the roof

[So according to the police chiefs the shooter killed himself at 9:40 but was still shooting 2 minutes later after he had committed suicide]

Isn’t it nice to be a final responder.


17 posted on 12/06/2013 6:50:45 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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Ohhh the state police aren’t going to like this from the report:

“At 09:46:23 hours, the first state troopers arrived on the scene, followed by a stream of other officers and troopers responding to Newtown’s call for assistance.”

That’s two minutes after the Chiefs say the Newtown police had entered the building.

According to the state troopers they all went in together — simultaneously — at the same time.


18 posted on 12/06/2013 7:42:31 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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The Report:

At 09:44:50 hours, 5 minutes and 57 seconds after the first unit arrived at the rear of the school, an entry team consisting of a Newtown sergeant and two officers make an entry at the south-east side of the school.

Soon after the entry, this team was joined by the Newtown Chief.

A simultaneous entry was made by a Newtown lieutenant, sergeant, and an officer, who found an unlocked door leading into a boiler room at the north-west corner of the school.

At 09:46:23 hours, the first state troopers arrived on the scene, followed by a stream of other officers and troopers responding to Newtown’s call for assistance.

[the state guys aren’t going to like this]


19 posted on 12/06/2013 7:57:15 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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Experts divided over Sandy Hook response

http://www.newcanaannewsonline.com/local/article/Experts-divided-over-Sandy-Hook-response-5034599.php

If police had arrived at the shattered front entrance of Sandy Hook Elementary School with their sirens blaring —Adam Lanza might have ended his rampage and committed suicide sooner.

But experts are divided over whether police should have immediately gone into the school and confronted Lanza, or waited — as they did — outside for six minutes.

In the bloody last seconds of the murder spree, investigators said Newtown police cars arrived and parked more than a football field away.

The long-awaited release Wednesday of recorded calls for assistance and the background sounds of rifle shots that killed 20 children and six adults may provoke more questions than provide answers on the important issue of the police response.

During the 47 seconds in which Lanza fired at least nine shots from his semi-automatic Bushmaster XM-15 assault-style rifle and a Glock 10mm handgun, first responders were setting up outside the school on Dickenson Drive.

“Since Columbine, the message is go after the shooter as quickly as possible,” said Brookfield Police Chief Robin Montgomery, speaking on the evolution of tactics in active-shooter incidents.


20 posted on 12/06/2013 11:14:24 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
The long-awaited release Wednesday of recorded calls for assistance and the background sounds of rifle shots that killed 20 children and six adults may provoke more questions than provide answers on the important issue of the police response.

While I understand that the families of the children were sensitive about the release of the 911 calls, they really are public domain information. Public funds paid for the emergency response infrastructure, the responding officers, their equipment and training.

Given that we all may encounter such a situation, and that these incidents are being used to destroy a fundamental right of self defense, we have every right to know what happened.

21 posted on 12/06/2013 11:51:35 AM PST by Hardastarboard (Temporary tag line - RIP Paul Walker)
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Here are the 911 calls with time stamps:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Full-transcript-of-the-Sandy-Hook-911-calls-5036086.php#page-3

CALL 1, 9:35:39, 24 seconds

CALL 2 released on the recording is a duplicate of Call 1.

CALL 3, 9:36:13 a.m., Rick Thorne, acting head custodian, 3 minutes & 52 seconds

CALL 4, 9:37:06, 42 seconds

CALL 5, 9:40:02 a.m., 5 minutes & 22 seconds

CALL 6, at 9:40:20, Rick Thorne, 3 minutes & 24 seconds

CALL 7, 9:43:55 a.m., Rick Thorne, 4 minutes & 10 seconds

Part way through CALL 7 Rick Thorne hears and then sees the officers coming in — which indicate that the Newtown Police entered the building at about 9:45 apparently from the back of the school. A little later entry was made from the front

The Newtown police and their report say they went in first but the state police and their Sandy Hook report say they all went in together when the state police got there at 9:46. Police chiefs report says it was later than 9:46 when they got there.

There is tension between these two agencies trying to take credit but then there is this from the 911 tapes:

Here is the police dispatch to compare to the 911 calls:

http://nhregister.com/articles/2012/12/14/news/doc50cc0897adc1a203744261.txt?viewmode=default


22 posted on 12/07/2013 7:34:12 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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1] Interview with one of two mothers who witnessed the 8 to 10 kids running down to the firehouse, the Lanza’s Honda with black sweatshirts strewn on the ground, the broken plate glass window at the front door, no police around,
the unusual quiet, then gunshots ring out from inside the school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptbd6qRY358

2] Marilyn Gudsnuk — sees kids running from the school in front of the firehouse, 7 or 8 police cars were going in opposite direction, and then gunshots ring out — probably the same ones that the two other women heard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sem3eN_z5nY

Toward the end of Call #3 7 gunshots can be heard. These aren’t the ones the women heard but the shots probably fired in Soto’s room after which the kids made their break for the firehouse.

CALL 3 began at 9:36:13 a.m. with Rick Thorne, acting head custodian, and lasted 3 minutes & 52 seconds meaning that those shots were taking place right at 9:40. Those are the shots after which the 10 kids made their escape.

How long does it take 10 first graders to run a quarter mile???

The next set of gunshots are the ones reported at around 9:46 as LE are entering the school. The 911 calls particularly those of Rick Thorne released thus far all ended before 9:46 — thus those shots are not recorded..


23 posted on 12/07/2013 6:21:31 PM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Have you seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQVRlEe2A94


24 posted on 12/13/2013 11:05:54 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill

The guy is a moron and so is anyone who buys what he is selling.

A facial recognition expert he is not.

He’s saying that these kids aged 5 years in 2 months???

10 kids ran from that first grade classroom and are alive today.

How come they didn’t age 5 years in 2 months???


25 posted on 12/13/2013 11:18:07 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Yeah, and one of those girls is over a foot taller than she was 2mos ago, when she was killed. I tried to make facial/feature comparisons, and I can’t match-up anything concrete. He is a moron. Did you read the comments on that page? Absolutely stunning people can’t see thru the BS! I thought I was missing something key there, but I’m glad you agree. There’s no way to pull off something like that.


26 posted on 12/13/2013 11:36:12 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill

I recognize this guy’s voice and he has been putting these things out for almost a year now.

I wish he would step out from behind the curtain and tell us his real name so he can receive the proper laughter.


27 posted on 12/13/2013 11:48:58 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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