Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Shades of Vietnam: Spike in U.S. troop deaths tied to stricter rules of engagement
The Washington Times ^ | December 5, 2013 | Rowan Scarborough

Posted on 12/06/2013 8:01:56 AM PST by huldah1776

The number of U.S. battlefield fatalities exceeded the rate at which troop strength surged in 2009 and 2010, prompting national security analysts to assert that coinciding stricter rules of engagement led to more deaths.

A connection between the sharp increase in American deaths and restrictive rules of engagement is difficult to confirm. More deaths surely stemmed from ramped-up counterterrorism raids and the Taliban’s response with more homemade bombs, the No. 1 killer of NATO forces in Afghanistan.

But it is clear that the rules of engagement, which restrain troops from firing in order to spare civilian casualties, cut back on airstrikes and artillery strikes — the types of support that protect troops during raids and ambushes.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; enemy; military; obama; obamasfault; roe; vietnam
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-56 next last
The ROE are not in place to win the war against jihad. Plain and simple.
1 posted on 12/06/2013 8:01:56 AM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
'Lectric'ly they keep a baseball score ....

... and the beat goes on ...

2 posted on 12/06/2013 8:03:36 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

The ROE are never in place to win any war.


3 posted on 12/06/2013 8:04:12 AM PST by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Cowardly politicians and officers killing American heroes. Hate them.


4 posted on 12/06/2013 8:06:35 AM PST by vpintheak (Thankful to be God blessed & chosen!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
Spike in U.S. troop deaths tied to stricter rules of engagement

It's called "giving aid and comfort to the enemy."

5 posted on 12/06/2013 8:09:19 AM PST by Carl Vehse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776; vpintheak; zot; 2ndDivisionVet; NYer; Mouton; knarf

And by increasing the ROE, we end up increasing the number of our folks who will be killed and wounded because of it. Thus, instead of decreasing US casualties, it will guarantee an increase in casualties. Look what has been happening the last 4 years in Afghanistan, everytime the ROE are ‘strengthened’ in hopes of decreasing causalties, US casualties go UP>


6 posted on 12/06/2013 8:09:36 AM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Don’t shoot until shot at. And by then, it’s ususally too late.


7 posted on 12/06/2013 8:10:00 AM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
Jake Tapper's book The Outpost gives a good account of what our guys had to put up with in Afghanistan back during W's administration.

What they must be enduring under the Kenyan Klown's ROE is almost unimaginable.

8 posted on 12/06/2013 8:10:19 AM PST by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
DUH!!

9 posted on 12/06/2013 8:10:49 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty (Be the Enemy Within the Enemy Within...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

They might as well resurrect MacNamara’s old ROE. They managed to kill a lot of our troops needlessly too. Maybe they could get Fonda to go to Afghanistan and sit on a gun.


10 posted on 12/06/2013 8:15:56 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

I imagine that thoughts today are going through the minds of our remaining troops in Afghanistan and their families back home of “No one wants to be the last soldier to die in Afghanistan when Obama withdraws all of the troops.” And will he and the thousands of dead troops who served before him be forgotten by most people here in the U.S?

Linden mother of last U.S. soldier killed in Vietnam meets granddaughter for first time

A meeting 40 years in the making

Tia McConnell stands with her grandmother, Mae Rucker, at the Veterans’ Memorial on the courthouse square.

Posted: Sunday, August 5, 2012 4:00 am | Updated: 7:02 am, Sun Aug 5, 2012.

By Angela Guillory aguillory@news-journal.com

LINDEN — Almost 40 years after the death of her son — the last American soldier killed in Vietnam — an East Texas woman finally met her granddaughter this past week.

Tia McConnell, the Asian-born daughter of John O’Neal Rucker, tracked down her father’s family through DNA testing, driving across the country with her husband and children to meet them.

She said it was an emotional experience visiting Rucker’s gravesite and placing a flag at the courthouse where a monument recognizes him as the last U.S. soldier killed in Vietnam.

Born March 17, 1951, in Kilgore, Rucker was raised in Linden. He was assigned to the 366 Combat Support Group, 366th Tactical Fighter Wing, at Da Nang Air Base, Republic of Vietnam.

On Jan. 27, 1973, at the age of 22, Rucker was killed in a rocket attack just hours before the signing of the Paris Peace Accords that ended the Vietnam War.

His daughter was born an orphan in Da Nang. She was evacuated before the fall of Saigon and adopted and raised by Jack and Karen Whittier of Colorado.

But McConnell said she has always yearned to know her father and his family.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/local/linden-mother-of-last-u-s-soldier-killed-in-vietnam/article_e8df847e-4e21-5e20-a763-79b38e2cef12.html


11 posted on 12/06/2013 8:17:27 AM PST by KeyLargo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don Corleone

From the mind of the guy who spent three months in ‘Nam and came home with three purple hearts...


12 posted on 12/06/2013 8:18:08 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Sickening if even ONE American dies because a bunch of attorneys set the rules of combat. Just sickening.


13 posted on 12/06/2013 8:19:29 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

ROE should be:

See enemy, kill enemy.

Next question please.


14 posted on 12/06/2013 8:21:45 AM PST by ealgeone (obama, border)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Empowering the enemy, destroying the US military, demoralizing the troops,while all the while not winning the hearts and minds of the foreign peoples and causing them to hate and disrespect us - one American soldiers life at a time.


15 posted on 12/06/2013 8:26:54 AM PST by rdcbn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Anyone joining the military must know that the CIC does NOT have their back! He & Valjar couldn’t care less.


16 posted on 12/06/2013 8:27:46 AM PST by Thom Pain (U.S. Constitution is a CONTRACT! : $70 TRILLION unfunded...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

War casualties as of December 2013

http://www.defense.gov/news/casualty.pdf


17 posted on 12/06/2013 8:34:30 AM PST by KeyLargo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
Hello from Afghanistan!!!!!

Why don't we talk about the sanctuary in Pakistan the Taliban and Haqqanis have? Google Chaman and Quetta. Go talk to your neighbor who just came back. Maybe he is uniform, maybe he's a contractor. The story is the same: we should have won this years ago.

If families that lost loved ones over here challenged their elected representatives, maybe we'd get some where.

18 posted on 12/06/2013 8:35:32 AM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Germans and Japanese citizens should be irate over this. We killed them in droves, but I guess since they are white and Asian and not camel concubines they don’t count.


19 posted on 12/06/2013 8:36:38 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Save


20 posted on 12/06/2013 8:42:43 AM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Fight to win or get out. Fight to win, or else it’s just endless cruelty. And I mean cruelty to our Soldiers and their families.


21 posted on 12/06/2013 9:17:06 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Believe it or not, the latest addition to rules of engagement in Afghanistan is that our guys cannot shoot at ANYONE inside a building.

The only exception is serious, absolutely imminent death.

And this is not true if you can walk away and avoid the situation.


22 posted on 12/06/2013 9:20:59 AM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

My rules of engagement would be:
If you even think you detect the enemy shoot them.
If they move or twitch after being shot, then shoot them again.
If it turns out that they were civilian, then call them an enemy sympathizer.


23 posted on 12/06/2013 10:14:20 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Democrats believe in a two-party system—the masters and the slaves.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Obamaganda must have some of LBJ’s dna in his gene pool.

LBJ loved to created deadly ROE’s for those who served under him.


24 posted on 12/06/2013 10:16:09 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Obamaganda is starting to fail 24/7. Soon Obamaganda will fail 24/365!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BuffaloJack

My ROE is:

1. Kill the enemy.
2. Break their things.


25 posted on 12/06/2013 10:16:46 AM PST by dfwgator (Fire Muschamp. Go Michigan State!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: GreyFriar
Look what has been happening the last 4 years in Afghanistan, everytime the ROE are ‘strengthened’ in hopes of decreasing causalties, US casualties go UP>

This is the standard solution for Democrats! People get killed in a combat zone, make it harder for our guys to defend themselves and BAM! MORE people are killed.

A left-wing, liberal nutjob goes on a shooting spree, demand laws which make it HARDER for people to defend themselves from the next left-wing, liberal nutjob!

This is their M-O! It is designed to guide people into the "loving," "caring" and CONTROLING arms of the Government!
26 posted on 12/06/2013 10:24:30 AM PST by ExTxMarine (PRAYER: It's the only HOPE for real CHANGE in America!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: GreyFriar

The reason for keeping our troops in Afghanistan is to bleed the American military.


27 posted on 12/06/2013 10:26:52 AM PST by zot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

King Barry’s ROE are in place for the purpose of ridding America of its true patriots. I think about the nearly 20 SEALs aboard that one Chinook helicopter (on 08/06/11) almost every day.


28 posted on 12/06/2013 10:35:03 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (If Americans were as concerned for their country as Egyptians are, Obama would be ousted!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Troop death increases are also because the enemy feels emboldened and empowered knowing America’s president shares their goals.


29 posted on 12/06/2013 10:37:35 AM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (If Americans were as concerned for their country as Egyptians are, Obama would be ousted!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Telepathic Intruder

Don’t shoot until you have been shot. Why do you think we hand out that body armor soldier?


30 posted on 12/06/2013 10:39:02 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Our ROEs in Nam were no way near as ridiculous as those in Afghanistan. Additionally, we were not subjected to the scrutiny now endured by our troops on the ground. We spent weeks at a time without REMFs around and we definitely did not have an attorney for every rifleman as they appear do have now. We see them, we shoot them and blow up their tunnels and gear. They shoot at us from the bushes, we blow up the bushes. They ambush us, we ambush them. If there were no civilians or water buffaloes in the fields as we traveled on the roadways, it was safeties “off”.


31 posted on 12/06/2013 10:59:42 AM PST by Dapper 26
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Georgia Girl 2

Body armor is actually a trade-off between protection and mobility. Sometimes moving faster is more important. In any case, you can’t completely cover yourself with ceramic plates. The biggest problem is the current anti-military administration that are practically tying their hands as target practice for the nice moose limbs.


32 posted on 12/06/2013 11:02:08 AM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
This has been going on for years, even under Bush. Seems like it become much worse under Obama. Giving the battle advantage to...(surprise!)

the Islamic enemy.

33 posted on 12/06/2013 12:51:09 PM PST by 444Flyer (How long O LORD?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KeyLargo

What a blessing!


34 posted on 12/06/2013 1:44:04 PM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Salvavida

Hello in Aghanistan! If you find a lighter with the USMC logo on it, let me know. My son lost his in Hell-on-man province. :)


35 posted on 12/06/2013 1:46:06 PM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I heard about the new restrictions that Karzai wanted and is still not agreeing to. I think of it as Beirut II.


36 posted on 12/06/2013 1:48:15 PM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Dapper 26

helmet cams are absurd.


37 posted on 12/06/2013 1:53:07 PM PST by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Imagine that .. REMFs and gutless political pussies got guys killed/maimed !


38 posted on 12/06/2013 2:11:16 PM PST by tomkat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Afghanistan was Vietnam and Korea from the beginning under W Bush and got worse with Obama with limits on what our forces could do to interdict the Taliban supply line from Pakistan.

The Pakistani government intelligence agency created the Taliban that took over Afghanistan and gave Bin Laden his base of operations.

This is an absurd international police action with American forces under the ISAF umbrella. The supply lines for both sides run through the same country-Pakistan.

I would pull out or do what it takes to win.

Pakistan has nukes so neither Republicans or Democrats would fight an all out war to defeat the Taliban just like fear of Soviet nukes drove the Vietnam “war effort” involving no victory.


39 posted on 12/06/2013 2:11:49 PM PST by Nextrush (A BALANCED BUDGET NOW AND PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mouton

Dittos.

This has been another international police action-limited war in the Korea-Vietnam tradition from the beginning.

Since WWII America does not fight wars to win anymore.....


40 posted on 12/06/2013 2:12:52 PM PST by Nextrush (A BALANCED BUDGET NOW AND PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
[Art.] ... prompting national security analysts to assert that coinciding stricter rules of engagement led to more deaths.

Brother Barack's gift of piety to his brother jihadis: American dead.

41 posted on 12/06/2013 9:47:35 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mouton
The ROE are never in place to win any war.

That's because the winners are the ones smart enough to make up the ROE as they go along, and impose them on the adversary.

"Adapt. Improvise. Overcome."

42 posted on 12/06/2013 9:49:28 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
LBJ loved to created deadly ROE’s for those who served under him.

IMHO LBJ was a sneaking coward who secretly hated better men and sought private vengeances against them.

43 posted on 12/06/2013 9:52:51 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
Could someone explain what the ROE were during WWII, the Korean War and in Vietnam? So then under Bush, the ROE began to change to protect the muzzies, because Bush had a connection to them? And what was that connection? And now the ROE today favor the muzzies because obama is a muzzie sympathizer, which to me says he's consorting WITH the enemy against his own military and citizens of the US.
44 posted on 12/06/2013 11:32:50 PM PST by itssme
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

MIA: The MSM
KIA: The Truth


45 posted on 12/07/2013 12:12:27 AM PST by Rodney Dangerfield (Paul Ryan shreds Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1yTY2MciOk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Mouton

Either give the troops a free hand or bring them home. Don’t let them be bullet stoppers with little ability to fight back.


46 posted on 12/07/2013 3:56:44 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Maybe when the day comes that the military is expected to be the president’s bully boys, they’ll remember how much of a $hit he took on them after sending them to fight for his re-election campaign.


47 posted on 12/07/2013 4:47:37 AM PST by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be earned and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Let’s give the Secret Service the same ROE, allow DC folks to carry RPG’s, and see if anybody in DC wakes the heck up.


48 posted on 12/07/2013 7:03:14 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus

“IMHO LBJ was a sneaking coward who secretly hated better men and sought private vengeances against them.”

You are correct.

Look at all the good men serving in Nam who suffered from what this evil bastard did to them.

Ask the survivors of the Pueblo and Liberty, how they feel about LBJ.

How many CIA operatives and MIL intel and specop guys were sent on a mission and abandoned?


49 posted on 12/07/2013 9:03:21 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Obamaganda is starting to fail 24/7. Soon Obamaganda will fail 24/365!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

They did it to us in Nam. Right before I was wounded, we went out on our final mission, before the 4th Infantry Division was to come home in December 1970, we were TOLD that on this final mission, we were NOT to shoot at anyone, nobody, unless we FIRST CHECKED THEIR ID CARDS!!! EVEN if they were in their nice little black PJ’s AND carrying an AK-47, we WERE NOT TO ENGAGE them unless we first check their &#^&@@*^ ID cards!!! Our platoon sergeant told us if anyone did not shoot everyone of them, he would shoot us!!! He said to shoot every stinking one of them, and THEN we would check their stinking ID cards. By the way, we were all wondering, WHO THE HECK ISSUED ID CARDS TO A BUNCH OF STINKING VC out in the wilderness?????


50 posted on 12/07/2013 2:00:13 PM PST by RetiredArmy (I am proud to be a Christian and follower of my Lord Jesus Christ. Time is short for U to know Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-56 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson