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(New Mexico) State officer in minivan shooting is fired
Santa Fe New Mexican ^ | Dec 7, 2013 | Uriel J. Garcia

Posted on 12/07/2013 10:15:41 AM PST by fifedom

An officer who shot at a minivan full of children following a traffic stop near Taos has been fired, a New Mexico State Police spokesman said Friday. The Oct. 28 incident, in which the officer fired a handgun toward the fleeing vehicle, gathered national attention after a video from a dashboard camera was released.

(Excerpt) Read more at santafenewmexican.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Society
KEYWORDS: fourthamendment; newmexico; policestate
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FreeRepublic thread on the original incident
1 posted on 12/07/2013 10:15:41 AM PST by fifedom
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To: fifedom

Adult supervision of police is sorely needed from coast to coast. It’s good to see some showing up in New Mexico.


2 posted on 12/07/2013 10:19:01 AM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: fifedom

I wonder what would happen if I “shot at a minivan full of children”? I respect police but I hate abuse of power and the overuse of something that the rest of us are increasingly not even allowed to have.


3 posted on 12/07/2013 10:20:03 AM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: fifedom
"DeTavis wrote in a police report about the incident that Montoya “later bought the entire family McDonald’s during the booking process.”

The man creates a slip hazard wherever he goes from the milk of human kindness oozing from his every pore.

4 posted on 12/07/2013 10:20:30 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: fifedom

The idiot driver is no hero either.


5 posted on 12/07/2013 10:22:18 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: fifedom

What about the jack-booted thug that was pounding on the van, with children inside, smashing the windows out. He should be fired, too. What a poor example of “we protect and defend”.


6 posted on 12/07/2013 10:25:01 AM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: Telepathic Intruder
I wonder what would happen if I “shot at a minivan full of children”?

I can answer that.

You'd be hunted down and killed, or thrown in a cage for life.

7 posted on 12/07/2013 10:31:15 AM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Standing Wolf
Even in the dashcam video you can see the other two troopers having a WTF reaction to the third shooting at the vehicle.

The family will get paid off, and the 14 year old will get a slap on the wrist if anything for assaulting the first trooper. Rest assured he will be making additional appearances in court rooms in the future.

8 posted on 12/07/2013 10:32:10 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Maybe you missed the part of the video when the son, was committing an assault against the trooper.


9 posted on 12/07/2013 10:34:10 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: goodwithagun

Everyone already knows the driver was/is an idiot. However, the driver didn’t pull out a semi-auto and start shooting into his cruiser.
The fact is, the officer used brute force, above and beyond what was prudent and necessary. Cops are held to a much higher standard, whether you like it or not. They carry arsenals above what most citizens do and should be very careful how they use that lethal power. Far from just being fired, this cop should spend time in a prison cell, in the general population. No special priviledges and no special protection. He should now and forever more be just another of the great unwashed.


10 posted on 12/07/2013 10:37:08 AM PST by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: USNBandit

So? Assault or no assault, there was no excuse for using deadly force against all of the occupants of the vehicle, which is exactly what he did.

If what this now-former cop did was enough to get him fired, then it should be enough to get him arrested.


11 posted on 12/07/2013 10:38:11 AM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: USNBandit

Just LOOKING at a cop can be grounds for ‘’assault’’.


12 posted on 12/07/2013 10:39:17 AM PST by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: Standing Wolf

Good to hear. I hope she sues the pants off of him


13 posted on 12/07/2013 10:39:55 AM PST by Chickensoup (we didn't love freedom enough... Solzhenitsyn.)
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To: Standing Wolf
I don't understand why this same thing did not happen to the police who fired randomly at the crazy lady who drove into the capital. If you watch the video you see ten police just firing into the crowd across the street at the fleeing car. They could have hit anybody. The police posed more danger to the public than the lady did. And the lady had a kid in the back seat.
14 posted on 12/07/2013 10:41:52 AM PST by poinq
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To: fifedom

Fired ONLY because it was on video.


15 posted on 12/07/2013 10:41:57 AM PST by subterfuge (CBS NBC ABC FOX AP-- all no different than Pravda.)
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To: Thumper1960

Absolutely.


16 posted on 12/07/2013 10:47:46 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: fifedom

Shooting at fleeing autos is really smart. And if you happen to hit the driver, what do you have? A 3000 lb unmanned, uncontrolled missile.


17 posted on 12/07/2013 10:49:31 AM PST by capt B
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To: USNBandit
So what? He's a teenager protecting his mother. You can't expect much from him, other than a juvinal response.

But a highly trained uLEO? We can expect much, much more that violently smashing out windows and shooting at a van full of kids.

Throw both of these thugs off the uLEO payroll, fine them $100,000 for contemptuous and dangerous behavior and throw them into prison.

What part of "to serve and protect" do these (self-proclaimed) "heroes" not understand?

18 posted on 12/07/2013 10:49:46 AM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

These officers should be given a chance to explain their actions.


19 posted on 12/07/2013 10:59:54 AM PST by The_Media_never_lie (Actually, they lie when it suits them! The crooked MS media must be defeated any way it can be done!)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
These officers should be given a chance to explain their actions.

If you read the news article, the officer was put on paid administrative leave sometime in October and there was a hearing.

In this or a separate story there were reports of demonstrations to support this guy from the LaRaza bunch and that the police union are getting involved.

We have not heard the last of this. If I had to bet I think this guy will get reinstated after the publicity blows over. And then he will get another hearing the next time when he actually kills somebody.
20 posted on 12/07/2013 11:06:59 AM PST by fifedom
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To: dragnet2

Suffice to say I wouldn’t be seen again for a very long time. But police are entrusted with greater responsibility than myself, so I can understand why a slip-up (if that’s what is was) might be treated with more leniency.


21 posted on 12/07/2013 11:11:23 AM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: fifedom

I remember this case. I honestly think the officer who opened fire was going for a “shoot out the tires” moment. Given that the suspect had fled once, and an officer had been assaulted by the driver’s teenaged son, he probably thought he had to stop the matter from going further.

All that said, it was the wrong call to make, IMHO. In tv shows the cops can shoot out a tire without consequence, but in real life, nobody’s aim is perfect and bullets can go a lot of other places. The minivan had a family in it, and the police were on a crowded freeway with a lot of other vehicles speeding by. There could have been any number of passers-by and bystanders put at risk when he began shooting.

Now, I’m not excusing the behavior of the driver of the mini-van. She needs to do some serious jail time for her antics. And I think the other officers all acted appropriately - including the one with the baton who broke out a window to get the doors opened. But the officer who fired his weapon acted recklessly, and his firing seems to be the appropriate action here.

All IMHO and civilian opinion, of course.


22 posted on 12/07/2013 11:21:07 AM PST by DemforBush (A Repo Man is *always* intense.)
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To: DemforBush

You are correct.


23 posted on 12/07/2013 11:24:30 AM PST by Safetgiver ( Islam makes barbarism look genteel.)
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To: USNBandit
Maybe you missed the part of the video when the son, was committing an assault against the trooper.

Maybe I missed something. I saw the boy approach the officer while he was wrestling with the mother. The officer backed him off. I didn't see an assault unless that part of the video was cut.

24 posted on 12/07/2013 11:44:24 AM PST by marron
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To: fifedom

IIRC a Border Patrol agent went to prison for shooting at an escaping SUV that had an illegal hidden in the back.


25 posted on 12/07/2013 11:49:44 AM PST by Vinnie
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To: fifedom

I’m not sure I understand what the mother was doing, but I remember something that happened years ago. Where we are from, it was (then, probably not now) customary when pulled over by a cop to get out and meet him at the back of the car. It was considered courteous.

On a trip to California, my brother was pulled over, and he got out like he normally would. The cop got frantic and started shouting at him to get down on the curb. My brother refused, and the cop started to get twitchy. I thought there was going to be a really bad outcome. The more my brother refused to get down, the twitchier and more frantic the cop became. Finally my brother went and stood on the curb, and the cop accepted that and calmed down. In the end he got a warning, no ticket. But I thought he almost got shot.

She got out of the van (which these days you should never do). The cop ordered her up against the van, which she didn’t want, she thought he was going to cuff her, so she went to get back in the van. He freaked out at that point and tried to pull her from the van, and it all went downhill from there.

These days cops have a habit of cuffing people who are not under arrest “for both of our protection”. If you are an ordinary citizen, not under arrest, that seems like an abuse of power. But it is becoming common procedure.


26 posted on 12/07/2013 11:53:56 AM PST by marron
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To: fifedom

No matter how you look at it, the cop should not have fired at the tires of the escaping van. Bullets do ricochet.

A kid could have been hit. The gas tank could have been ruptured. Other traffic could have been hit. The driver could have been incapacitated and collided head on with another vehicle.

The driver, the kid and the cop all need to be held accountable.

Would any of this had happened if our race-baiter-in-charge and his willing accomplices Al, Jesse and the MSM had not worsened race relations?


27 posted on 12/07/2013 11:57:58 AM PST by redfreedom (All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing - that's how the left took over.)
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To: Telepathic Intruder

“I respect police but I hate abuse of power and the overuse of something that the rest of us are increasingly not even allowed to have.”

That’s ok. We’ve been trained from childhood in Dewey’s Prussian inspired school system to respect authority unquestioningly, especially authority figures in uniform.


28 posted on 12/07/2013 12:04:31 PM PST by dljordan (WhoVoltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.")
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To: redfreedom
Now what would be the situation if the woman and children were Moslems in that van?

Which cop would be lynched? The baton boy or deputy doright? Now, does the mom and son get into trouble?

29 posted on 12/07/2013 12:08:10 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: fifedom

Holy cow. Before watching the video, having just read the article, I thought that the officer should be fired. Now, I feel differently.


30 posted on 12/07/2013 12:15:21 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: DemforBush
He is probably being fired because there is likely a specific prohibition in the agency use of force policy for disabling fire on a vehicle.

I am guessing that he and his lawyer came up with this defense after reviewing the tape and seeing nothing that came even close to meeting Garner v. Tennessee criteria for deadly force. He knows he is going to get fired, but is hoping to avoid a civil rights charge and instead accept a civil lawsuit. He is still going to get crushed financially, but he doesn't want to go to jail.

31 posted on 12/07/2013 12:19:28 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: marron
There are multiple reasons police want you to stay in the vehicle. One is for your safety. Another is that if you are a bad guy, it limits your maneuverability. The most common reason people jump out of the car is that there is something in the car they want to hide. In the New Mexico case the mother didn't want the trooper to see the drug paraphernalia in the center console.

Here is another incident that happened right around the same time up in Oregon. Starts with a routine stop for speeding through a marked construction zone.

http://youtu.be/q1gYEG1TzBk

32 posted on 12/07/2013 12:29:02 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: trisham
The mother and the son both committed felonies in connection with what should have been a normal traffic stop. Driving off from the traffic stop, eluding, resisting arrest, assault on a police officer, obstruction of justice, and some charges for use of drugs around children.

That does not excuse the poor judgement and use of a firearm outside of policy and legal criteria. He still needs to be fired.

33 posted on 12/07/2013 12:35:38 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

I would have been tempted to shoot her after the first five minutes.


34 posted on 12/07/2013 12:39:04 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

Now assuming everyone should be treated equally, Muslims included, I’d say there should be no difference, the cop firing at the tires, the lady escaping, and the kid assaulting the cop should have consequences to pay.

But given the fact that Muslims are attaining a higher status in the US, and especially Europe, boy, it would sure be a toss up as to who would get preferential treatment.

One thing I’ve thought of, is what is in that cop’s rule book regarding firing of a weapon? IMO common sense says do not fire in such a situation, but what do the rules he is expected to follow say? I’m not trying to defend the cop, but if he was authorized to fire in such a situation then should the folks in charge of the cop be more accountable?

All I know is I would not want to sit in on a jury for a civil suit or charges against the cop or the lady. This Travon thing has politicized just about anything to do with race relations now days.


35 posted on 12/07/2013 12:42:30 PM PST by redfreedom (All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing - that's how the left took over.)
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To: USNBandit

Good points. I honestly hadn’t considered any of that.


36 posted on 12/07/2013 12:49:23 PM PST by DemforBush (A Repo Man is *always* intense.)
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To: USNBandit
There are multiple reasons police want you to stay in the vehicle. One is for your safety. Another is that if you are a bad guy, it limits your maneuverability.

I know that is true. I would never get out now.

But years ago, back before things got weird, it was considered courtesy. And a meeting of equals. Now its much more an adversarial thing; the cop doesn't know if you're the one who is going to pull a piece on him. You keep your hands where he can see them. You wait til asked to go fishing in the glove box for something. Its different now.

37 posted on 12/07/2013 12:50:49 PM PST by marron
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To: DemforBush

A 9mm(or most common handgun rounds) hitting the steel tread area of a tire will not penetrate. Even if he managed to hit the sidewall there is not an explosion like on TV. The tire just deflates relatively slowly.


38 posted on 12/07/2013 12:51:50 PM PST by mad_as_he$$
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To: trisham
Still not legal. Deadly force criteria is set by SCOTUS case precedence in Garner v. Tennessee. In that case a burglar ran out the back of a Tennessee home with a stolen purse. Burglary is a felony and the Tennessee laws at the time allowed shooting at fleeing suspects when they have been warned of a pending arrest. The result was that 15 year old Edward Garner took a bullet to the back of the head over a purse with $10 in it.

The 1985 SCOTUS decision changed the deadly force criteria to be only used when an officer feels lives or serious injury to others would occur without its use. These days you do see plenty of police shootings into cars, but those are usually where the driver has hit or attempted to hit people with the car. This woman hadn't done that.

39 posted on 12/07/2013 12:58:06 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

Well, my sympathies are still with the police officer.


40 posted on 12/07/2013 1:00:00 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Plus, it’s not legal. Shooting outside of Garner criteria is grounds for civil rights charges for violating the 4th amendment rights of the target.


41 posted on 12/07/2013 1:03:59 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: fifedom

The state trooper may have mistaken one of the children for a family dog.


42 posted on 12/07/2013 1:21:35 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: poinq

And let’s not forget the LAPD cops who were firing at two Mexican woman in an SUV when they were searching for a bald-headed black guy (Christopher Dornier) in a different make and model vehicle.

Plus the surfer guy who was fired upon in Huntington Beach while he was driving a Honda Ridgeline.


43 posted on 12/07/2013 1:22:39 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (The Second Amendment makes all the other amendments possible)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: Starstruck

That was one of the crudest posts that I have ever seen here.


45 posted on 12/07/2013 1:39:54 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

Tell the moderator.


46 posted on 12/07/2013 1:45:00 PM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi

>> What a poor example of “we protect and defend”.

More like “we enforce”. That said, A lot of good cops die or get seriously injured in the line of duty in pursuit of real criminals. But of course that’s not to excuse the out-of-control psycho cops.


47 posted on 12/07/2013 1:52:14 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Starstruck

I’m starstruck with your post. Well stated.


48 posted on 12/07/2013 1:54:01 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: Gene Eric
But of course that’s not to excuse the out-of-control psycho cops.

Not excuse, but prosecute when justified, as certainly is the case here. I'd also like to see Baton Boy get some major 'time out'.

49 posted on 12/07/2013 1:57:25 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: trisham
Well, my sympathies are still with the police officer.

My respect is for the authorities who fired this 'roid ragin' loser.

50 posted on 12/07/2013 1:58:32 PM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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