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Protesters in Kiev Topple Lenin Statue as Rallies Grow
The New York Times ^ | 12/8/2013 | DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ANDREW E. KRAMER

Posted on 12/08/2013 4:04:54 PM PST by Beave Meister

KIEV, Ukraine — Protesters in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, toppled the city’s main statue of Lenin on Sunday and then pounded it into chips with a sledgehammer as a crowd chanted and cheered. The destruction of the statue was a cathartic moment in the biggest day of demonstrations so far against President Viktor F. Yanukovich’s turn away from Europe.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians filled the streets of Kiev on Sunday, first to hear speeches and music and then to fan out and erect barricades in the district where government institutions have their headquarters.

Carrying blue-and-yellow Ukrainian and European Union flags, the teeming crowd filled Independence Square, where protests have steadily gained momentum since Mr. Yanukovich refused on Nov. 21 to sign trade and political agreements with the European Union. The square has been transformed by a vast and growing tent encampment, and demonstrators have occupied City Hall and other public buildings nearby. Thousands more people gathered in other cities across the country.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhorussia; commies; communist; corruption; eu; europe; kiev; lenin; liberals; obama; protesters; statue; ukraine; yanukovich
Coming to a theater near you.....
1 posted on 12/08/2013 4:04:54 PM PST by Beave Meister
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To: Beave Meister
Carrying blue-and-yellow Ukrainian and European Union flags

So why beat up on Lenin if they really want the same thing?
2 posted on 12/08/2013 4:10:05 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Beave Meister
I am in dire need of my own cathartic moment.

Has The Won erected any monuments to himself yet? If so I am there.

3 posted on 12/08/2013 4:10:43 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Beave Meister

Ironic, really - they could have shipped the statue to Washington DC and Obama would have paid good money for it and erected it on the Mall.


4 posted on 12/08/2013 4:14:23 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: cripplecreek

Becaise it’s cool to protest, even if you have no idea what you are protesting.

Meanwhile, there’s a 16-foot bronze statue of Lenin in Seattle, WA.
http://fremont.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/3739626257_e9888fd184_b.jpg


5 posted on 12/08/2013 4:16:37 PM PST by definitelynotaliberal (Go, Cruz! Go!)
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To: cripplecreek
The biggest difference is that the protestors want to form the trade pact with the EU, versus being forced by Putin, et al., into the Russian version.

I can't make it any more simple . . . and if you don't see the difference (no worries, other FReepers don't, either), then I can't help.

6 posted on 12/08/2013 4:16:51 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Beave Meister
IT'S A LONG WAY FROM THERE

TO HERE:



LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THE ROOSKIES FINALLY GOT SMART!
7 posted on 12/08/2013 4:18:09 PM PST by jimsin
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To: definitelynotaliberal

“No idea,” huh? Then I suppose everything that MSNBC has said about the Tea Party is true.


8 posted on 12/08/2013 4:18:17 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Beave Meister

Evidently, there are hundreds monuments to this murderer throughout the Ukraine.


9 posted on 12/08/2013 4:19:50 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Beave Meister
Feb 15, 2010 - Authorities remove a statue of Barack Obama from a park in the Indonesian capital due to a public backlash and move it to a nearby elementary ...


10 posted on 12/08/2013 4:20:16 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Jack Hammer

There’s a huge sculpture of Lenin’s head and a smaller Mao with a balancing bar on top of Linen’s head, made of chrome in Los Angeles at the corner of 3rd St. and La Brea.


11 posted on 12/08/2013 4:22:29 PM PST by Beave Meister (Die Hard Cubs Fan.....if it takes forever.)
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To: Beave Meister

I’m sure they can sell it to Obama. He’d love to display it next to a statue of himself.


12 posted on 12/08/2013 4:25:04 PM PST by Organic Panic
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To: Beave Meister

Great, now our white house is going to start a war with the Ukrainians in defense of communism there.


13 posted on 12/08/2013 4:26:22 PM PST by lurk
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To: skeeter

It’s called Obamacare and erected in every single fiber of American being.


14 posted on 12/08/2013 4:26:31 PM PST by Organic Panic
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To: Jack Hammer
they could have shipped the statue to Washington DC and Obama would have paid good money for it and erected it on the Mall.

(our good money)

As it is, he'll probably order the flags be flown at half staff in honor of his hero.

15 posted on 12/08/2013 4:29:19 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Beave Meister

This guy (responding poster) perfectly capsulizes the response of the protestors:

“Roman
Malanke

NYT Pick..

Thank you very much for such an objective account of the events. I live here in Kyiv and I was taking a part in today’s demonstration with my family and friends. This articles conveys very well the peaceful and intelligent nature of the protests of Ukrainian people. This has been called here “a revolution of dignity” and “a revolution of common sense”. Also I envy all who unlike myself can’t understand Russian language, because the way Russian national TV described the events of today was so disgracefully distorted. The peaceful gathering of a million of people was called “a crowd of a few hundred aggressive nationalists”. But thanks to the social media, the world will know the truth. The good will beat the evil, and do so lovingly and with human respect. Ukraine not only “will be Europe”. Ukraine IS Europe. Hello from Kyiv to all readership of NY Times.


WELCOME to your version of the Tea Party, my friend (and our version of your “Pravda”).


16 posted on 12/08/2013 4:30:40 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Gamecock; Larry Lucido

They could grind the head all the way down, stick a pumpkin under its arm, and call it ‘Ichabod Crane’.

You’ve all been great; I’m outta here.


17 posted on 12/08/2013 4:36:34 PM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Jack Hammer

Well the statue of Lenin could replace the bust of Churchill that was removed from the White House.


18 posted on 12/08/2013 4:42:01 PM PST by Maine Mariner
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To: Beave Meister

Bye bye, V. I.!


19 posted on 12/08/2013 4:44:55 PM PST by lump in the melting pot (Half-brother is Watching You!)
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To: Beave Meister

Obongo will leave THESE ones out TOO, to twist in the wind when the jackboots come in.


20 posted on 12/08/2013 4:45:39 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Kim Jong Un won't have a single "bad underwear day" unless/until we've a patriot in the White House)
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To: Jack Hammer

Sad but true. I’m still happy for the Ukrainians. It’s rare to read good news anymore.


21 posted on 12/08/2013 4:46:29 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: JSDude1

What do the people in the east say? There is a cultural and linguistic divide in Ukraine. Some want to be closer to Russia and others want to be closer to the West.

Of course if the eastern half of the country was absorbed by Russia, a rump Ukraine could survive in the EU. Otherwise there’s no short-term fix to the current crisis.


22 posted on 12/08/2013 5:22:06 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Beave Meister
There is Lenin's statue in the Fremont district of Seattle. Looking forward to it coming down in the future.


23 posted on 12/08/2013 5:32:58 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

You weren’t kidding were you. They even dress it in drag for gay pride week.....................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle)


24 posted on 12/08/2013 5:49:01 PM PST by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: goldstategop

The best answer is obvious. In the last 100 years, Ukraine was the brutalized and destroyed by BOTH the Russian soviets, and by the Germans and their allies.

Now the Russians want to control them, and so does the EU. The EU is just Germany 2.0. Neither side is interested in Ukraine except as a way to control gas pipelines.
The EU is not offering full EU membership, with open borders like the rest of the EU has. And the Russians do not want to give the EU control of those routes, and military position at their doorstep.
The Russians have good reason not to want NATO forces moved up to within 250 miles from Moscow, and to have NATO navies taking over their port in Sevastopol.

The answer is clearly for Ukraine to be a special case. After being brutally raped as a nation and mass murdered by both Germans and Russians, they deserve better than being centered in this new tug of war. Let them simultaneously be given EU and Russian Federation free trade status. And there should be a complete prohibition of the introduction of NATO status, or any expansion of the Russian navy base in Sevastopol.
You could sit back and watch. Ukraine would have no reason or need to split or riot.
They would become a hub of trade in that part of the world with a free trade zone status because businesses could trade freely between Russian and the EU only by going through Ukraine. As such a middleman, it would become a new Hong Kong or Switzerland, with the added joy of the hottest women on earth.

But of course, neither the new EU Reich, nor the Russians will permit this. They simply have no interest in what might be good for Ukraine.


25 posted on 12/08/2013 5:50:34 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Beave Meister

Is it possible to entice some of the organizers to come over here and help out? We don’t seem to have enough cajones to do what is necessary to save our own republic.


26 posted on 12/08/2013 5:57:31 PM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: PeterPrinciple

I don’t joke about mass murderers like Lenin and his ilk.


27 posted on 12/08/2013 6:00:35 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: DesertRhino

Exactly. Viktor Yanukovych has no good reason to sign a deal with the EU.

Western Ukrainians would never vote for him and he cannot afford to lose his core supporters in his power base in the country’s Russian-speaking east that would result if Ukraine acceded to an EU partnership.

No politician is going to inflict pain on his constituents a year ahead of elections. And Ukraine has presidential elections due in 2015. Yanukovych and his supporters in the governing Party Of Regions figure they can ride out the current storm.

What they cannot do is be seen as weak before their own backers and in front of the western Ukraine opposition that largely hates their guts. I don’t see Ukraine joining the EU in the foreseeable future. My guess is Yanukovych will try to get a better deal from Moscow to prop up the Ukrainian economy enough to get re-elected in 2015. And his pro-Russia supporters will then express gratitude for dodging a bullet.


28 posted on 12/08/2013 6:05:39 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: cripplecreek
As someone who was there in the Ukrain and Kiev for the entire Orange Revolution, this event is an earth shattering, cathartic moment for the people of the Ukraine. This statue is centrally located in down town Kiev, right off of Krishatic street, the main thoroughfare in the capital. They destroyed this statue and pulvarized it into dust because it was one of the last remaining symbols and vestiges of RUSSIAN/Soviet oppression. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want no part of Russia: the government that systematically brutalized them and starved MILLIONS of their citizens to death on purpose.

The Ukrainians do not want to be a puppet state of Russia (which they are under the "leadership" of Yanakovich, the twice convicted felon, Russian mafia "president" of the Ukraine), the Ukrainians want to be FREE. Free of Russia's control and free to associate with the West. This isthe last thing Russia and Yanakovich want.

It is important to remember that the reason why there are so many Russians presently living in the Ukraine is because Stalin. "Uncle Joe" uprooted and exiled multitudes of native Ukrainians to Siberia and other frozen Russian he'll holes and transplanted Soviet Russians in their place in order to consolidate his power and choice land holdings and they have been there ever since.

The Ukrainians want to be free from Russian dominance and control! THAT is why they finally tore down that disputable statue of the tyrant Lenin in Kiev.

29 posted on 12/08/2013 8:24:24 PM PST by Jmouse007 (Deliver us from this evil, in Jesus name, amen.)
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To: Jmouse007

>>>As someone who was there in the Ukrain and Kiev for the entire Orange Revolution, this event is an earth shattering, cathartic moment for the people of the Ukraine. This statue is centrally located in down town Kiev, right off of Krishatic street, the main thoroughfare in the capital. They destroyed this statue and pulvarized it into dust because it was one of the last remaining symbols and vestiges of RUSSIAN/Soviet oppression. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians want no part of Russia: the government that systematically brutalized them and starved MILLIONS of their citizens to death on purpose.

The Ukrainians do not want to be a puppet state of Russia (which they are under the “leadership” of Yanakovich, the twice convicted felon, Russian mafia “president” of the Ukraine), the Ukrainians want to be FREE. Free of Russia’s control and free to associate with the West. This isthe last thing Russia and Yanakovich want.

It is important to remember that the reason why there are so many Russians presently living in the Ukraine is because Stalin. “Uncle Joe” uprooted and exiled multitudes of native Ukrainians to Siberia and other frozen Russian he’ll holes and transplanted Soviet Russians in their place in order to consolidate his power and choice land holdings and they have been there ever since.

The Ukrainians want to be free from Russian dominance and control! THAT is why they finally tore down that disputable statue of the tyrant Lenin in Kiev.<<<

It is clear that you have listened only one side there.

Most of the Russians aren’t in the Ukraine “because of Stalin”. They are there because of a Soviet premier Khruschev (an ethnic Ukrainian) who incorporated a portion of Russian territories making East and South of Ukraine back to 1954. Needles to say these territories were populated by Russians and it is not surprising if they don’t want to disappear there. To make things worse, Western or historic Ukrainian part of Ukraine is a black hole in terms of economy. 4 is 5 dollars are made in the East by Russian-associated labor and enterprise. At the same time 4 in 5 of their hard earned dollars are spent in the West but in hasn’t generated any growth there, just more hunger from Western Ukrainians for freebies and mansions in Florida for their leaders. That is why you won’t see many ‘Ossies’ protesting in Kiev. They are busy working to support their families, political class in Kiev and Western Ukrainians who prefer rioting to hard working to get what they want.


30 posted on 12/08/2013 9:17:03 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Beave Meister

Hecky Durn.


31 posted on 12/08/2013 9:32:27 PM PST by RedHeeler
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To: cunning_fish

Yup. Ethnic Ukrainians who speak Russian are looked down upon by Western Ukrainians as country bumpkins and they resent the notion they are less loyal to the country because their mother tongue is Russian.

All they see are slights and resentment of them from the west Ukraine and the gulf between Lvov and Donetsk is wide and the demonstrations show only one side of the picture. The west wants to cut them off from their Russian market and that’s a deal-breaker for them. I don’t see the EU partnership going anywhere for that reason.

And would the West compensate Ukraine if it made a clean break with Russia? Every one knows that’s not going to happen and the Russian east would bear the brunt of EU imposed economic policies the hardest. Where is the incentive for them to oust the current government? It isn’t there and there’s been no love lost between the two sides of Ukraine since it became independent in 1991.


32 posted on 12/08/2013 9:38:07 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

IMO, both Russian and EU alliance has their pros and cons for Ukraine.
EU deals has it’s political benefits but hurts the economy, Russian deal hurts Ukrainian political position but useful for economy.
It is a question of priorities.
The most immediate result of the EU deal will be a drain in workforce leaving for the Europe and a flood of European products to Ukrainian market - a flood domestic businesses won’t survive. I guess national leadership knows it full well and for that reason they’ve opted for Russians.


33 posted on 12/08/2013 9:47:46 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: goldstategop

You are pushing a meme that does not exist any longer if it ever did

Ukrainians have self identified as Ukrainians and Re on a nationalist track. They don’t like Russians not least because of the Holodomor. They want a trade agreement with the EU not to join


34 posted on 12/09/2013 1:14:25 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Seattle Lenin commie bump


35 posted on 12/09/2013 6:02:28 AM PST by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

You are both right. You have probably never interacted with groups goldstategop talking about.
Indeed, Ukrainians has their self identity for sure, but it doesn’t mean that about half of them aren’t leaning towards Russia.
Also the majority of whose who want their trade agreement with EU are actually hoping for easing of traveling regime with EU to leave for Germany.


36 posted on 12/09/2013 6:58:28 PM PST by cunning_fish
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