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Tory grandee smears Nelson Mandela and claims apartheid was harder for WHITE South African leader
mirror.co.uk ^ | December 09, 2013 | Jason Beattie

Posted on 12/09/2013 2:27:10 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

Tory grandee Sir Malcolm Rifkind stunned MPs by saying ending apartheid was more difficult for the white South African leader FW de Klerk than for Nelson Mandela.

The former Foreign Secretary also said Mr Mandela was “not a saint” who believed in armed struggle.

His comments drew gasps from Labour MPs and jarred with the cross-party tributes paid to the former South African leader in a special session of the Commons.

Sir Malcolm said: “Nelson Mandela was not a saint, as we have heard. He was a politician to his fingertips. He actually believed in the armed struggle in the earlier part of his career and perhaps to some degree for the rest of his career.”

He added: “There was not just Nelson Mandela, who undoubtedly deserves the vast bulk of the credit, but there was also the South African president FW de Klerk. And without both of them it would not have been a peaceful resolution.

“And in some ways it was more difficult for de Klerk than Mandela.”

Peter Hain turned on Conservatives for their “complicity” in the Apartheid movement which imprisoned Nelson Mandela.

Mr Hain said he disagreed with Sir Malcolm’s characterisation of Mr Mandela and that over most of his life he was a believer in “non-violent, legal peaceful change”.

He went on: “By force of circumstance - the suppression of his African National Congress’s non-violent campaign for over 60 years - he had to become a freedom fighter and to lead an underground campaign of guerrilla activity similar to the French resistance against the Nazis.”

The Labour MP, one of the leading figures in the anti-apartheid campaign, accused the Tories of trying to rewrite the history of the fight for equality in South Africa when they had actually shown a “craven indulgence” towards the apartheid regime.

He praised Tories such as the Speaker John Bercow who had admitted they had been on the wrong side of the struggle in the 1980s.

“And if Nelson Mandela can forgive his oppressors without forgetting their crimes, who am I not to do the same to our opponents in the long decades of the anti-apartheid struggle,” he said.

But he went on: “It really does stick in the craw when Lord Tebbit, Charles Moore and others similar tried over recent days to claim that their complicity with apartheid - and that’s what I think it was - somehow brought about its end.

“Even, to my utter incredulity, when Lord Tebbit told BBC World, in a debate with me, that they had brought about Mandela’s freedom. I know for a fact that Nelson Mandela did not think so.”

In a powerful speech, Mr Hain also reminded MPs of the “evil presence” of the apartheid regime which forced blacks to use separate buses, sit on separate benches and made to walk on the street, not the pavement.

David Cameron led the tributes by hailing Mr Mandela as “towering figure” in world history.

“The most important monument to Mandela must be the lessons that he has taught us. That there is dignity and worth in every human being, that an ounce of humility is worth more than a tonne of might, that lasting long-term change needs patience - even the patience of a lifetime - but that change can come with determination and sacrifice.

“So it’s with sadness we meet here today to remember Nelson Mandela. But it’s with gladness that we can say this - it was a long walk to freedom but the walk is over, freedom was won and for that Nelson Mandela has the deepest respect of this House and his enduring place in history,” the PM said.

In a rare Commons appearance, former PM Gordon Brown said the former South African president was the “greatest man of his generation.”

“Winston Churchill said that courage was the greatest human virtue of all, because upon courage everything else depended.

“And Nelson Mandela had eloquence, determination, commitment, passion, wit and charm, but it was his courage that brought all these things to life.

“We sometimes think of courage as being daring bravado, as taking risks and recklessness, and it is all these things that Mandela had in admirable qualities,” Mr Brown said.

Mr Brown and his predecessors as PM, Tony Blair and Sir John Major will attend the memorial service in South Africa tomorrow along with David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband.

In a pitch-perfect tribute, Mr Miliband praised Mr Mandela as an “enduring and unique symbol of courage, hope and the fight against injustice. “

The Labour leader continued: “He teaches us the power of forgiveness, showing no bitterness towards his captors. Just the love of a country that could be so much better if all of its people could be free.

“And he demonstrates even to the most sceptical, the power of people and politics to change our world.”

Mr Clegg said Mr Mandela’s lasting legacy was to show that peace is always possible with hope and courage.

“To champion the defenders of human rights today and to know that wherever there is conflict and injustice, with hope and courage, peace is always possible,” he said.


TOPICS: United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: nelsonmandela; southafrica; uk

1 posted on 12/09/2013 2:27:10 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
In a pitch-perfect tribute, Mr Miliband praised Mr Mandela as an “enduring and unique symbol of courage, hope and the fight against injustice. “

No biased there. lol

2 posted on 12/09/2013 2:29:18 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The UK press is all disgracing itself over Mandela


3 posted on 12/09/2013 2:29:41 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Tory grandee Sir Malcolm Rifkind stunned MPs by saying ending apartheid was more difficult for the white South African leader FW de Klerk than for Nelson Mandela.

The headline says something very different from the first sentence. The former is obviously false, whereas the latter is obviously true.

4 posted on 12/09/2013 2:30:20 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

How dare he!


5 posted on 12/09/2013 2:30:27 PM PST by Defiant (GOPe Strategy: We have to fund Obamacare in order to see how bad it is. Good idea, guys!)
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To: Defiant

has he been tarred and feathered and necklaced yet?


6 posted on 12/09/2013 2:31:28 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Zhang Fei

“The headline says something very different from the first sentence.”


Yep! The headline is very deceiving.


7 posted on 12/09/2013 2:37:17 PM PST by Mears (Y)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

A communist and a terrorist who’s organization killed people, he was only called a saint by the nice liberals.


8 posted on 12/09/2013 2:37:57 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: GeronL
Unionist Allister hits out at BBC 'uncritical Nelson Mandela coverage' - December 09, 2013 - NELSON Mandela "left a trail of victims" and backed a terrorist campaign overseen by the ANC, the leader of the TUV has said.

The former South African president who fought apartheid "had the luxury of living to an old age and dying of natural causes, the victims of the terrorist acts at the hands of the ANC were not given such privilege," Jim Allister said.

As the world mourns South Africa's first black president, Mr Allister has criticised media coverage of the late statesman's death.

"I think the uncritical hysteria following the death is verging on propaganda," he said.

After the 1960 Sharpeville massacre, the ANC switched from passive protest to sabotage, targeting government institutions like power plants.

"I was particularly struck by the uncritical coverage by the BBC, ignoring part of the story which they clearly do not want to be seen," said Mr Allister.

"They've fallen over themselves to see the positivity, with one view, but not highlighting the pursuit and endorsement of terrorism which left a trail of victims."

Posting on his Facebook page on Friday, Mr Allister voiced his concerns by comparing the footage to that of Margaret Thatcher's death.

"When Baroness Thatcher died the BBC fell over itself to show balance; Mandela dies and BBC eschews anything approaching balance. And we've another week of this to go!"


9 posted on 12/09/2013 2:42:58 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

bump


10 posted on 12/09/2013 2:44:35 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Blah blah blah.
In the immortal words of John Wayne:
“They talk too much.”
Mandela was a mutt.


11 posted on 12/09/2013 2:46:53 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Blah blah blah.
In the immortal words of John Wayne:
“They talk too much.”
Mandela was a mutt.


12 posted on 12/09/2013 2:46:54 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: tumblindice

And more blah!


13 posted on 12/09/2013 2:47:34 PM PST by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: GeronL
BBC News chief defends Mandela coverage - December 09, 2013 - BBC News director James Harding has defended the extensive reporting on Nelson Mandela's death after the BBC received nearly 1,000 complaints. BBC One interrupted programming to bring viewers the news and extended the News at Ten. Many of the complaints were from those who felt the coverage was excessive given the worst storm surge in 60 years had hit the UK's east coast.

Mr Harding told the BBC's Newswatch programme: "Firstly, I'm sorry if there are people who felt as though we didn't inform them fully of what was happening in the weather.

"But we are probably talking about the most significant statesman of the last 100 years and a man who has defined freedom, justice, reconciliation, forgiveness."


14 posted on 12/09/2013 2:50:01 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: GeronL
At one time I dated a woman from South Africa. I don't think she had the same view that the many overwhelmed fools have on the demise of Mandela have shown. I'm very curious as to what Alan Keyes, one of my favorite diplomats and federal office-seekers, would have had. From Wikipedia:

=========

During his time at the United States Department of State, Keyes defended the Reagan policy of not imposing economic sanctions on South Africa as punishment for apartheid.[28] Stated Keyes, "I see the black people in South Africa as the most critical positive factor for eliminating apartheid and building the future of that country ... And that is not something you do with rhetoric, slogans and noninvolvement. It's not something you will achieve through disinvestment."

=========

At that time, the black peoples were not (and as it is seen are not yet) fit for government. To me, Keyes has been one of the highest-self-motivated conservatives I have met.

15 posted on 12/09/2013 2:51:37 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"But we are probably talking about the most significant statesman of the last 100 years and a man who has defined freedom, justice, reconciliation, forgiveness.

VOMIT, there is no honesty at all left.

16 posted on 12/09/2013 2:58:53 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: imardmd1

I agree.


17 posted on 12/09/2013 2:59:12 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

This man is absolutely correct and has more moral courage than most politicians. To be a critic of Mandela during all this fawning new coverage, takes a lot of spine. Even Ted Cruz fell for all this propaganda.


18 posted on 12/09/2013 3:05:54 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Oh my to say something against the soon to be sainted Mandela? Goodness, how could he?


19 posted on 12/09/2013 3:10:08 PM PST by Farnsworth (Now playing in America: "Stupid is the new normal")
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Everybody is trying to get in the act of kissing Mandela’s old dead terrorist ass. Even Ted Cruz and Newt Gingrich.


20 posted on 12/09/2013 3:50:27 PM PST by Venturer (Half Staff the Flag of the US for Terrorists.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

One conversation that is missing is WHY was apartheid implemented in the first place? The answer no one wants to discuss is the fact that there was uncontrolled illegal immigration into South Africa.


21 posted on 12/09/2013 3:52:54 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

Actually, the controversy in the 1948 election was the government permitting legal immigration of English speakers. The Boers were worried that if enough English speakers immigrated they would out-vote the Boers. The Boers loved their low-cost black labor, who couldn’t vote anyway.


22 posted on 12/09/2013 4:43:34 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: GeronL

Yes, it is.

And there has been a huge public backlash.


23 posted on 12/13/2013 11:29:55 AM PST by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

The MSM has all tried to rewrite history on this. Everyone who knows the truth must be pretty stunned at the lack of facts and balance in this coverage


24 posted on 12/13/2013 11:31:37 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
I don't know the answer to this....Did Nelson Mandala do all that he could to protect the white population of South Africa during the end of apartheid? Does South Africa protect their interests now?

If not, the praise to Mandala and his followers is not justified.

25 posted on 12/13/2013 11:33:41 AM PST by grania
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To: GeronL

So, was their country better off after Mandela -
poverty, crime, class mobility, etc?

I don’t think anyone could make an honest case for this.


26 posted on 12/13/2013 11:35:50 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: the scotsman

any MSM coverage of that?


27 posted on 12/13/2013 11:36:07 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: MrB

There is nothing honest about the veneration of a terrorist


28 posted on 12/13/2013 11:36:53 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
One day, hopefully not, but one day Patriots here may be called upon to take back our country. And it won't be pretty. So, assuming that their goals are reached, will the next generation demonize the men who brought liberty back to our Nation?

Mandela was no saint. Very few of us are. He waged a war against injustice. War is a dirty business. He also was the only man who could have governed after the end of apartheid without the country disintegrating.

I'm no Mandela fan. Really don't give a squat. Just some thoughts....

29 posted on 12/13/2013 11:45:15 AM PST by saleman
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