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Bangert: Shooting at childhood school creates conflicted feelings about guns
Greeley Tribune ^ | 15 Dec 13 | Randy Bangert

Posted on 12/15/2013 4:48:49 AM PST by real saxophonist

Bangert: Shooting at childhood school creates conflicted feelings about guns

So I’m intently watching the TV in our newsroom about the Friday afternoon shooting at my high school, Arapahoe, where I graduated in 1972.

I watch the view from a TV helicopter as students are lined up in rows around the school, to go through police checks. Although I haven’t been back in the school since my sisters’ graduations, memories quickly come to the surface of classes, friends, teachers, athletics and the school newspaper.

I watch as students and families are told to go to the nearby Shepherd of the Hills Lutheran Church, which our family attended for more than three decades. More memories: Sunday school, confirmation classes with Pastor Fingerlin, being an acolyte (the one who lights the altar candles at the start of the service), and my sisters’ weddings.

And then an email pops into my inbox:

“Dear Randy,

“We’re giving away the top quality Colt 6920 AR-15 rifle pictured below!”

The email continues for several more sentences, and it’s signed by Dudley Brown, executive vice president of the National Association for Gun Rights. Brown encourages me to “click here” for my chance to win the rifle. Brown also is director of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners association, the statewide gun rights group based in Windsor. I’m not sure how, but apparently I’m on the RMGO email list.

Once again, I’m confronted with my conflicted feelings — this time, in a more personal way — about gun ownership and the Second Amendment.

I was a gun owner and hunter as a young teen, even before I started attending Arapahoe. I’m still a gun owner and hunter. More memories: Hunting pheasants in eastern Nebraska with my grandpa, dad, uncle and cousin, and more recently hunting in eastern Colorado with my son and friends.

I don’t like the idea of the government taking away my guns, or my ammunition. But Friday’s Arapahoe shooting isn’t the first time I’ve been touched personally by the horrific tragedies associated with guns.

Just a few weeks ago, a co-worker’s 16-year-old son committed suicide with a gun. My son’s best friend throughout his school years also committed suicide with a gun, also at the age of 16.

Working in a newsroom, we hear about many tragedies involving youths and guns, some in our own backyard. We’ve had a couple sad examples in Weld County recently: The younger brother of a gun owner who picked up a gun sitting on the kitchen table and accidentally shot himself in a neighborhood southwest of Greeley two years ago; and the news just last month of a 3-year-old who found a handgun in his parents’ bedroom and accidentally shot and killed himself.

I was glad when District Attorney Ken Buck filed charges earlier this week against the mother of the 3-year-old. Turns out she had left her toddler son alone in the house with the loaded gun. Irresponsible gun ownership needs to be prosecuted and punished, in my view, when it takes the life of a child.

But as time goes on — in the year to the day since Sand Hook Elementary School shooting — I am conflicted more and more about our country’s obsession with gun ownership.

The argument against active shooters and mass shootings is that we need more good guys with guns who are capable of shooting the bad guys. But as Weld County leaders brag in a news release about our 10,000th concealed weapon permit being issued here, complete with a photo of the young woman and the sheriff, I’m still waiting for a good-guy citizen to stop a bad guy. And I’m wondering when gun rights advocates will notice that more and more children are dying, because of their easy access to guns.

A quick search on the web yields some sobering statistics: In the year since Sandy Hook, 173 children under the age of 12 have been killed by guns across America. There have been 23 mass shootings in the United States since Sandy Hook.

I’ll admit I don’t know what the answer is. But I’m troubled by the memories — of high school, of church, of hunting, of gun deaths — and the increasing frequency with which those memories seem to mix.

Randy Bangert is editor of The Tribune. He can be reached by email at rbangert@greeleytribune.com or on the phone at (970) 392-4435.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: banglist; basichumanright; nagr; righttoselfdefense; rmgo

1 posted on 12/15/2013 4:48:49 AM PST by real saxophonist
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To: real saxophonist
I'm on Rocky Mountain Gun Owners' email list, and I didn't get that email. I'd like to win an AR-15.

Well, Randy, I've known five people who were killed in car accidents. One was my best friend from childhood, one was a very beautiful girl with whom I was very much in love.

Somehow, none of that created conflicted feelings about cars.

2 posted on 12/15/2013 4:55:04 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: real saxophonist

As soon as the hoopla died down about this on the national news, I knew it was a lefty involved in the shooting.


3 posted on 12/15/2013 4:57:41 AM PST by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: real saxophonist

Everything in this article is me me me my memory I did this ...

Working in a newsroom, and he claimed ‘.....I’m still waiting for a good-guy citizen to stop a bad guy.’ All the digging he did is to get the statistics about more gun deaths/gun violence. Completely one-sided if you ask me.

He’s waiting for ‘a good guy stop bad guy with gun’ story to drop right into his lap? Sheesh!


4 posted on 12/15/2013 4:58:12 AM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: real saxophonist

5 posted on 12/15/2013 5:05:19 AM PST by maddog55
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To: real saxophonist

“Shooting at school creates conflicted feelings about socialism.”

Socialism is really the axiom to communism, via Stalin’s comment. “It is proof positive that you can break an enormous number of eggs and still not produce an omelet.”

What you are left with is a whole bunch of broken, spoiled eggs, producing vast amounts of stinky hydrogen sulfide.

It is heavier than air, very poisonous, corrosive and extremely unpleasant to smell. Socialism.


6 posted on 12/15/2013 5:08:50 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: real saxophonist

Further investigation probably reveal that this is another proggressive liberal pretending to be a conservative using a false pseudonym. They know that the weaker-minded will fall for it so they’re playing themselves off as “one of us”. Get ready to see images of mothers crying about their babies, children shot in schools (always done by liberals), and spots of rednecks carrying AR-15’s over their shoulders and getting into confrontations with police officers (staged of course).


7 posted on 12/15/2013 5:09:31 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Sir Napsalot; real saxophonist
Everything in this article is me me me my memory I did this ...

Working in a newsroom, and he claimed ‘.....I’m still waiting for a good-guy citizen to stop a bad guy.’

The author needs to hang out on FR. I literally cannot tell you how many threads I've seen that detail bad guys stopped by good guy citizens. I was surprised that someone hadn't jumped on that by now, but it's early yet.

This article is really the same old, same old . . . "I'm a Republican, but this time . . ." or "I'm a gun owner, but this time . . ."

Rush calls these "seminar callers / writers" out all the time.

8 posted on 12/15/2013 5:09:36 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: Sir Napsalot
Well, here's a story of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a knife.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3101710/posts#18

Five years later, I still get free hugs whenever I see her.

9 posted on 12/15/2013 5:13:28 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: real saxophonist
There have been 23 mass shootings in the United States since Sandy Hook.

BS. There's been 1 - the DC Navy Yard. The 23 figure comes from here, the reliably leftist Telegraph.

10 posted on 12/15/2013 5:15:38 AM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Hardastarboard

I’m definitely sending this thread to him and inviting him to visit us.


11 posted on 12/15/2013 5:16:54 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: real saxophonist

Hang on a minute. You might cause him to be “conflicted” with the truth once he presented with it. Seriously? This is the type of clown that doesn’t quite understand that inanimate objects are just that. He also doesn’t get the fact that bad people will do bad things regardless of any rules, regulations or laws that are enacted. Sounds like he needs to load up his SUV and tote his guns down to the local police and do the fine-stein thing. Turn em in before they go on a rampage. Didiot.


12 posted on 12/15/2013 5:22:05 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: real saxophonist
I really think this guy is full of BS.

True down he is a hard core anti spouting the line I was a gun owner.

Thinking this well make his anti gun BS more believable.

He is anti.

13 posted on 12/15/2013 5:36:19 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: real saxophonist

Well, Randy, with your built in bias toward gungrabbing your ‘reason’ will always disappoint you. Plenty of good guys stop badguys everyday. It may not happen in the ‘gun free zones’ that YOU created in the places where children go and where psycho killers may roam unmolested, because well...


14 posted on 12/15/2013 5:42:13 AM PST by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: riverrunner
I’m still waiting for a good-guy citizen to stop a bad guy.

This quote from the article tells me that the journalist isn't paying any attention. This stuff happens all the time -- and has happened at some school shootings.

The guy is 100% anti-gun and is being dishonest about it by claiming to be "conflicted".

15 posted on 12/15/2013 5:42:22 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: real saxophonist

Randy is a 60 year old reporter (and, apparently - narcissist), who can’t figure out how he got on the mailing list of the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Association. Wow!

Frankly, I think he should have more angst about nearing the end of his career at a small town paper that is of the same caliber as its nearby university. Greeley used to be the rape capitol of Colorado. Perhaps there’s a follow up story to that phenomenon that he could write about, and then tie it in to a (perhaps) well armed (or smartly armed) female population.


16 posted on 12/15/2013 6:06:34 AM PST by LittleBillyInfidel (This tagline has been formatted to fit the screen. Some content has been edited.)
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To: Hardastarboard
This article is really the same old, same old . . . "I'm a Republican, but this time . . ." or "I'm a gun owner, but this time . . ."

Rush calls these "seminar callers / writers" out all the time.

The more correct label is either "Fudd" or "Zumbo" where the writer claims being a "hunter" in order to get some moral high ground in his own mind. I notice he makes no reference to the firearm used by the Arapahoe shooter, a shotgun, same as what he has pursued pheasant with in the memories he relates in the article. Tends to erode his contrived "moral high ground," seems to me.

17 posted on 12/15/2013 6:08:32 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Any body that says I pro 2nd amendment and then say but.

Is an anti.

18 posted on 12/15/2013 6:20:49 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: LittleBillyInfidel
I am an alumnus of that university, and they have fixed that problem, by requiring card access at all residence halls.

Makes it a pain in the ass for pizza delivery people, but there have been no rapes since. Nope, none.

Randy's gonna love reading this thread. 8 ~)

19 posted on 12/15/2013 6:25:02 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: real saxophonist

A Sandy Hook liberal...disarming everyone but himself.


20 posted on 12/15/2013 7:11:53 AM PST by Anton.Rutter
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To: ClearCase_guy

There was a story earlier this year about a 14 year old boy in Houston who was home alone with his younger sister.

Two criminals carried out a home invasion of the 14 year old’s residence. One bad guy was breaking in the front door and the other was trying to break down the back door of the family home.

The boy grabbed his father’s AR-15 and killed one criminal and wounded the other. Randy, you gun-grabbing dumba$$, I hope you’re reading this. A good citizen stopped a bad guy.....two of them. There are millions of cases of good people defending themselves against dirtbag criminals every year in America.


21 posted on 12/15/2013 7:34:13 AM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (The Second Amendment makes all the other amendments possible)
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To: real saxophonist

That’s awesome! I went there, too (1986-1989). Had too much fun - and started a fraternity. (Yeah, I don’t want Randy’s feelings hurt...I believe he cares. I just hope he’s happy working for the Trib. Not sure I could live up there and survive that, myself...)


22 posted on 12/15/2013 7:36:10 AM PST by LittleBillyInfidel (This tagline has been formatted to fit the screen. Some content has been edited.)
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To: real saxophonist

Randy,

This latest shooter legally bought this shotgun.

What is it you’d like to do that would stop that?

If you’d like to know what is broken and needs fixing, you might start by looking at the promotion of a Godless culture, promoting a consequence free life, broken homes, and government support for those unwilling to fend for themselves.


23 posted on 12/15/2013 7:38:00 AM PST by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

There are plenty of stories of the good guy stopping the bad guy with a gun.

The problem is that the news doesn’t pay attention since an avoided disaster doesn’t bring the ratings that a real (or faked) disaster brings.

More importantly, such instances are inconsistent with the state run media’s agenda.

Also, there is no way to know how many bad guys choose not to rob someone or burglarize some home for fear of the innocent being armed.

An armed populace has tremendously beneficial consequences that can’t easily be measured. But common sense dictates that such benefits exist.

And at the risk of being offensive, I really dislike any blaming of the gun, especially in cases of suicide. It’s not like one needs a gun to kill himself.

But there are lots of situations where a gun is absolutely needed for defense.

This writer pretends to care about gun rights but his analysis is just plain juvenile.


24 posted on 12/15/2013 7:41:26 AM PST by Clump ( the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: Clump

Well said.


25 posted on 12/15/2013 7:58:21 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: real saxophonist

“OBSESSION” with gun ownership???

Seems to me, we have the GOD-GIVEN right to bear arms and defend ourselves!

THAT is the point being completely ignored by these folks. This was yet ANOTHER gun-free zone, right? Or am I mistaken?


26 posted on 12/15/2013 7:59:38 AM PST by joethedrummer
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To: real saxophonist

While I sympathize with the writer’s conflicted feelings, he still falls into the trap of blaming the tool rather than the tool’s operator. People do horrible things with guns. People also do horrible things with knives, staplers, cleaning supplies, cars, and a whole host of other equally common tools. Some of the worst atrocities in history were committed using nothing but a microphone and/or a pen. None of those things should be banned for being involved in horrible acts. The same holds true for guns.

It is a tragedy whenever a child is killed by someone using a gun, whether it is a case of negligent discharge or a deliberate murder. That’s undeniable. But it is just a much of a tragedy when the child dies because he swallowed bleach, fell out of a tree, got hit by a car... and no one screams for “bleach control” or “tree control” or “car control.” With those things we place the blame where it belongs: a person, or else an accident.

We can’t blame the “gun culture” for people being killed with guns any more than we can blame the “car culture” for auto accidents.


27 posted on 12/15/2013 8:25:29 AM PST by lcms rev
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To: facedown

That definition of “mass shooting” is laughably broad. Most of those involve the commission of other crimes, and several do not happen in the same “spree” style as something like Sandy Hook or the Navy Yard.

And did anyone else catch the inaccuracy in their descriptions of the weapons used? They have 4 categories: handgun, shotgun, semi-automatic, and rifle. Semi-automatic doesn’t describe a class of weapon, it describes a method of reloading and firing a weapon; any of the above could be “semi-automatic.” Of course, the Left thinks anything with a trigger is an Uzi, so...


28 posted on 12/15/2013 8:25:29 AM PST by lcms rev
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To: real saxophonist

Same here. I’ve known a number of people killed by cars but that hasn’t created a knee-jerk reaction to ban cars.


29 posted on 12/15/2013 9:38:05 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: real saxophonist

The source of the author’s conflict is not the struggle between freedom to own guns or grabbing them. No, his conflict is between his already settled intense desire to grab guns and his desire to continue in his line of work.


30 posted on 12/15/2013 9:56:49 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: lcms rev

31 posted on 12/15/2013 11:04:55 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: lcms rev
Of course, the Left thinks anything with a trigger is an Uzi, so...

This is stupid but it makes me laugh every time I see it:


32 posted on 12/15/2013 1:23:53 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: lcms rev; Slings and Arrows

LOL, I just replied directly to your post - didn’t look at the thread. GMTA


33 posted on 12/15/2013 1:25:34 PM PST by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: facedown

Mine’s bigger. ;^)


34 posted on 12/15/2013 1:30:08 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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