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Southern Discomfort: U.S. Army seeks removal of Lee, ‘Stonewall’ Jackson honors
The Washington Times ^ | 12/17/13 | Rowan Scarborough

Posted on 12/18/2013 8:24:58 PM PST by Bringbackthedraft

The U.S. Army War College, which molds future field generals, has begun discussing whether it should remove its portraits of Confederate generals

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: dixie; museum; purge; usmilitary
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Looks like PC has taken over our History.
1 posted on 12/18/2013 8:24:58 PM PST by Bringbackthedraft
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Are all of the portraits of American generals, or are there any from other countries?


2 posted on 12/18/2013 8:27:45 PM PST by henkster (Communists never negotiate.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Let me guess. General Sherman’s picture with all the atrocities his army committed can stay?


3 posted on 12/18/2013 8:30:49 PM PST by The Iceman Cometh (Proud Teabagging Barbarian Terrorist Hobbit Crazy Cracker Son-of-a-Bitch!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
When this happens, the Army will abandon some of the greatest generals ever to serve in the U.S. Army. "The North had the resources and the South had the generals."

You only need to look at the Peninsular Campaign and the Seven Days Before Richmond to know that Lee out-generaled everyone the North threw against him. One of our greatest, and most honorable generals!

I guess he doesn't fit in with what today's Army is looking for in an officer.



America demands Justice for the Fallen of Benghazi!

O stranger, tell the Lacedaemonians that we lie here, obedient to their command.

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

4 posted on 12/18/2013 8:32:11 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

I would imagine they need to make room for some fag portraits.


5 posted on 12/18/2013 8:35:04 PM PST by JoeDetweiler
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To: Bringbackthedraft

well they’ve re-written the History about practically everything else, so why not?

I swear it’s getting to the point where I don’t even want to read anything anymore I’m so darn disgusted.


6 posted on 12/18/2013 8:35:24 PM PST by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

How can you study US Military history without including these guys? Sheesh.


7 posted on 12/18/2013 8:35:51 PM PST by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

How can you study US Military history without including these guys? Sheesh.


8 posted on 12/18/2013 8:35:54 PM PST by flying Elvis ("In...War, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are the worst" Clausewitz.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

This is utterly ridiculous and will not happen.

(People are beginning to wake up and see how un-American [and unprofessional] this group in DC is.)


9 posted on 12/18/2013 8:36:57 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Is this the same place holding homo weddings?

I mean, really. Homos are normal and OK out in the open in real life today, but a regular long-dead American soldier is not.


10 posted on 12/18/2013 8:37:23 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Sure, hell, replace them with Che, Stalin, Castro, Nero......whatever the hell strokes their fancy. We have been prostituting everything else in America. Oh, and don’t forget a Gay/Lesbian so and so..............NUTS!!


11 posted on 12/18/2013 8:38:51 PM PST by Dapper 26
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To: Bringbackthedraft

These where men of Honor. They didn’t plant hidden explosives in ice cream shops and blow civilians up in order to terrorize them. They didn’t bring down planes and passengers and then hid in the shadows claiming responsibility.

They stood toe to toe and faced musket and cannon and took the huge risk of life and limb for what they believed was the only means to fight the creeping Federalism. Hence the name ‘Confederate’.

I doubt many in today’s military could stand up to the vigor that those men did. Those where the day’s where Generals and Colonels where routinely killed in action. Not getting purple hearts for butt sores like today’s officers.


12 posted on 12/18/2013 8:39:52 PM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Before I delve into what the great Wolseley wrote about General Lee, let me first tell you about Sir Garnet Wolseley and establish with you his credibility both for greatness in his own right and as an individual who could recognize greatness in others from the lofty perch of his own character and accomplishments.

Let me begin by saying that Wolseley is generally given credit for the transformation of the British army from a gentleman’s army to a modern fighting force. He was the one who prepared the Brits to play a key role in the winning of the First World War.

He was attracted to the military at an early age and followed in the footsteps of his military father. From the beginning he was destined for greatness. His first action was in the Crimean War where he was elevated to the rank of captain at age 21. Because of his youth there was opposition to his holding this rank. When he threatened resignation if the rank were taken away, his superior officers recognized greatness and allowed him to maintain the rank. Just three years later he became the youngest lieutenant colonel in the British army.

Wolseley served in India and China before being sent to Canada in 1861 to help plan for possible war against the Union forces of the United States after northern forces had illegally removed two Confederate diplomats from a British ship.This was the famous Trent Affair. He traveled in secret to Virginia to study the organization and effectiveness of the Confederate army since it was primarily a volunteer army. He spent much time with generals Lee, Jackson and Longstreet and was highly impressed by all three. It was Robert E. Lee, however, who most impressed Wolseley.

Based on this time with the Confederates he wrote “A Month’s Visit to the Confederate Headquarters” which was published in Blackwood’s magazine and is still well-known today.

Garnet Wolseley later served in Cyprus as the first high commissioner of that island after it came into the empire and as governor and commanding general in South Africa Natal Province. In 1880 he returned to England and was made adjutant general which gave him authority over military training. In 1882 he was sent to Egypt to quell a nationalist uprising where his brilliant tactics led to suppression of the revolt. To show the gratitude of the British government, Wolseley was made a baron and paid a reward of 30,000 pounds. In 1884 he was made viscount and in1894 was made field marshall. In 1895 he was promoted to commander-in-chief of the British army.

Viscount Wolseley also found time to author THE LIFE OF MARLBOROUGH, THE DECLINE AND FALL OF NAPOLEON and SOLDIERS POCKET BOOK FOR FIELD SERVICE, the bible of the British army.

This is only a brief portrait of the brilliant Wolseley - a man of great honor, accomplishment and intelligence. How would a man of his stature describe Robert E. Lee? Let me list just a few direct quotes from the pen of this great man:

” I desire to make known to the reader not only the renowned
soldier, whom I believe to have been the greatest of his age,
but to give some insight into the character of one whom I
have always considered the most perfect man I ever met.”
Wolseley on Lee


” He was opposed to secession, and to prevent it he would
willingly sacrifice everything except honor and duty, which
forbid him to desert his State... Nothing would induce him
to have any part in the invasion of his own State, much as
he abhorred the war into which he felt she was rushing. His
love of country (Virginia), his unselfish patriotism, caused
him to relinquish home, fortune, a certain future, in fact
everything for her sake.”
Wolseley on Lee turning down the offer
of command of the Union army to side
with Virginia and the Confederacy

” He spoke bitterly of none - a remarkable fact, as at that
time men on both sides were wont to heap the most
violent terms of abuse upon their respective enemies.”
Wolseley on the character and
Christian nature of Lee

” Where else in history is a great man to be found whose
whole life was one such blameless record of duty nobly
done? ... The most perfect gentleman of a State long
celebrated for its chivalry, he was just, gentle, and
generous, and child-like in the simplicity of his
character.”
Wolseley on the character of Lee

” I have met many of the great men of my time, but Lee
alone impressed me with the feeling that I was in the
presence of a man who was cast in a grander mould,
and made of different and of finer metal than all other
men. He is stamped upon my memory as a being apart
and superior to all others in every way: a man with whom
none I ever knew, and very few of whom I have read, are
worthy to be classed.”
Wolseley on the greatness of Lee

” When all the angry feelings roused by Secession are
buried with those which existed when the Declaration of
Independence was written, when Americans can review
the history of their last great rebellion with calm impartiality,
I believe that all will admit that General Lee towered
far above all men on either side of that struggle: I believe
he will be regarded not only as the most prominent figure
of the Confederacy, but as the great American of the
nineteenth century, whose statue is well worthy to stand
on an equal pedestal with that of Washington, and whose
memory is worthy to be enshrined in the hearts of all his
countrymen.”
Wolseley on Lee’s rightful place in history


13 posted on 12/18/2013 8:44:40 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Last week my wife and I drove through Carlisle and saw sign for the US Army War College. We will be back that way again and will make time to see the area. Removing the pictures of Lee and Jackson would be a shame on those who order it and those who carry out the order.
A few months ago a column in the NY Times that questioned why Southern Forts and Bases were named after Confederate Generals and other heroes of the South. My reply to him is WTF? Should we rename Fort Stewart Fort Sherman? This PC Bullshit has got my blood pressure up, my guns all loaded and I'm looking for any excuse to take some PC A’holes to the dark regions of HE double hockey sticks!
14 posted on 12/18/2013 8:50:08 PM PST by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: yarddog

Thank you for your wonderful information and insight!


15 posted on 12/18/2013 8:50:32 PM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: yarddog

Thanks for posting that, yarddog.


16 posted on 12/18/2013 8:50:53 PM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: yarddog

That is beautiful, and wonderful to read, especially considering the source. I concur, from everything I’ve ever read about Robert E Lee.


17 posted on 12/18/2013 8:52:39 PM PST by mrsmel (One Who Can See)
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To: yarddog

Very interesting and enlightening. Thank you.


18 posted on 12/18/2013 8:54:01 PM PST by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

These people must be ashamed of their own American history.


19 posted on 12/18/2013 8:58:28 PM PST by plainshame
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To: yarddog

Read about Col. Joshua Chamberlain, who was a hero at Gettysburg, and was appointed to preside over the Confederates final surrender. He honored the surrendering soldiers by having the troops present arms as the defeated army passed. This was class. Removing Gens Lee and Jackson’s paintings from ANY wall in America is classless!
AMEN.


20 posted on 12/18/2013 9:01:21 PM PST by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

From a post on GlockTalk:

THIS IS UNTRUE. I just heard form a close friend who retired as an O-5 and was an instructor at the AWC. He made the necessary calls and just told me that “Major General Cucolo has no intention of removing portraits of Lee or other CSA generals. This was ONE professor and some inartful statements by Kerr, the PAO woman.”

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20846007&postcount=19

Makes perfect sense but is worth checking into...


21 posted on 12/18/2013 9:02:17 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft; central_va; lentulusgracchus
Next these leftists will be calling for Fort Hood here in Texas to be renamed. By the way, it wouldn't surprise me to also have the usual cabal of anti-Southern FReepers on board as well. But...but...but...General Hood was a Democrat...coming in 3-2.1.


22 posted on 12/18/2013 9:02:59 PM PST by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: BatGuano
A few months ago a column in the NY Times that questioned why Southern Forts and Bases were named after Confederate Generals and other heroes of the South. My reply to him is WTF? Should we rename Fort Stewart Fort Sherman? This PC Bullshit has got my blood pressure up...

The libs were all ga-ga about South Africa's Truth & Reconciliation Commission, whereby each side was supposed to forgive each other and live in peace forever after.

The fact of the matter is that the USA showed how Truth & Reconciliation and Forgiveness really worked by pretty much leaving each other alone after Reconstruction.

As a consequence, neither the North nor the South dwelt upon the outcome of the Civil War -- we went on about our business of building one country.

Now, the libs have decided to pick scabs off of old wounds. They won't maintain Reconciliation that way...

23 posted on 12/18/2013 9:05:48 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

IN DEFENSE OF GENERAL LEE

By Edward C. Smith
Saturday, August 21, 1999
© Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company

Let me begin on a personal note. I am a 56-year-old, third-generation, African American Washingtonian who is a graduate of the D.C. public schools and who happens also to be a great admirer of Robert E. Lee’s.

Today, Lee, who surrendered his troops to Gen. Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox Court House 134 years ago, is under attack by people — black and white — who have incorrectly characterized him as a traitorous, slaveholding racist. He was recently besieged in Richmond by those opposed to having his portrait displayed prominently in a new park.

My first visit to Lee’s former home, now Arlington National Cemetery, came when I was 12 years old, and it had a profound and lasting effect on me. Since then I have visited the cemetery hundreds of times searching for grave sites and conducting study tours for the Smithsonian Institution and various other groups interested in learning more about Lee and his family as well as many others buried at Arlington.

Lee’s life story is in some ways the story of early America. He was born in 1807 to a loving mother, whom he adored. His relationship with his father, Henry “Light Horse Harry” Lee, (who was George Washington’s chief of staff during the Revolutionary War) was strained at best. Thus, as he matured in years, Lee adopted Washington (who had died in 1799) as a father figure and patterned his life after him. Two of Lee’s ancestors signed the Declaration of Independence, and his wife, Mary Custis, was George Washington’s foster great-granddaughter.

Lee was a top-of-the-class graduate of West Point, a Mexican War hero and superintendent of West Point. I can think of no family for which the Union meant as much as it did for his.

The rest here: http://vaudc.org/lee-defense.html


24 posted on 12/18/2013 9:09:00 PM PST by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: re_nortex

Hood was a fighter but a terrible general.

After the Battle of Nashville, Nathan Bedford Foresst said he would have killed Hood if he knew Hood was being allowed to command the Army. I think a huge number of Confederate officers were killed in numerous attacks on fortified lines by soldiers without shoes, dying of illness, starving nearly to death.

The only way such soldiers could have been used was in holding positions.


25 posted on 12/18/2013 9:11:00 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: yarddog

Outstanding post, yarddog. Thanks...


26 posted on 12/18/2013 9:19:53 PM PST by Always A Marine
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To: Bringbackthedraft

If you don’t know the family of the military or law enforcement that come for you, they may as well be from Russia. They will kill you so they can get back to lunch on time.

The economy is winding down fast, the end is nigh.


27 posted on 12/18/2013 9:28:01 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: Bringbackthedraft

For effs sakes! can we let history be history?


28 posted on 12/18/2013 9:28:51 PM PST by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: JoeDetweiler

Heh!


29 posted on 12/18/2013 9:30:04 PM PST by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: okie01

It ain’t just libs

There are some serious turdblossom agitators here who crap on Dixie day day out

Their own usually skin in the game literally prejudice towards white southerners who won’t suck up

Kinda like the homosexual jacobins


30 posted on 12/18/2013 9:38:07 PM PST by wardaddy (choctaw bingo)
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To: wardaddy

Very true.


31 posted on 12/18/2013 9:48:22 PM PST by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: plainshame

These people must be ashamed of their own American history.

_____________________________________

They do not know American history!


32 posted on 12/18/2013 9:51:37 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: wardaddy
It ain’t just libs

There are some serious turdblossom agitators here who crap on Dixie day day out

Then, they're libs, too.

Conservatives are savvy enough in military matters to honor a defeated opponent who himself acted honorably.

Washington showed it at Yorktown. And do we still hold a grudge against the British?

Grant showed it at Appomattox. And, for over 100 years, the North and South held their peace.

The U.S. showed it in WW II. The defeated opponents were treated with honor, only their dishonorable leadership was held accountable, and they are two of our staunchest allies today. Indeed, you might say that our strongest allies are all ex-enemies -- Great Britain, Germany and Japan.

Liberals don't know how to do treat opponents with honor. Conservatives win wars. Liberals lose the peace.

33 posted on 12/18/2013 9:52:21 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Portrait of an ObamaCare Foot Soldier
34 posted on 12/18/2013 9:59:13 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: yarddog

the wrong side won in 1865


35 posted on 12/18/2013 10:51:02 PM PST by LeoWindhorse
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To: The Iceman Cometh

After the clean-up campaign (to take years), there might be five pictures remaining on the walls (George Washington owned slaves....so he has to be taken down...same with Jackson and most of the early 1800s Generals).


36 posted on 12/18/2013 10:56:12 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: LeoWindhorse
the wrong side won in 1865

I'm not sure the Yankees actually won in the long run. Their fetid cities are bankrupt, both financially and -- even more significantly -- morally. And, as this map vividly illustrates, the Solid South is the land of true freedom and liberty. The north (with a few outliers, probably due to Southern migration during WWII) is where the slavery of unionism prevails.

Furthermore the north continues to lose population since abortion is widespread up there. The South, derided as the Bible Belt by liberal Yankee snobs, honors God and the real American values of the Founding Fathers.

37 posted on 12/18/2013 11:27:36 PM PST by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

This is the face of repression. It is rampant with the left. Children repressed to the point that when they go off, it’s by way of multiple murder rather than a 60 second fist fight.

Adults are acting out the same way. They feel shut out, ignored, with no self-worth due to long-term unemployment.

Control of every aspect of life, work, recreation, diet, transportation, housing, doctors, interpersonal relationships, everything.

These are just the early results of dystopian socialism.

Prepare.


38 posted on 12/18/2013 11:33:57 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn...)
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To: re_nortex

” The South, derided as the Bible Belt by liberal Yankee snobs, honors God and the real American values of the Founding Fathers. “

Right on ! So true


39 posted on 12/18/2013 11:40:48 PM PST by LeoWindhorse
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To: BatGuano

I hear you bro. I was in the Air Force for 20 years, but in the very least, I told my son I would knock him out if he even remotely showed any desire to go in the military. PC has become so entrenched in society, I am not sure it can ever be rooted out. I am also disgusted, knowing I spent 20 years of my life, protecting this country from communism, only to see it triumph without a shot being fired.


40 posted on 12/19/2013 12:02:45 AM PST by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Veteran, 70-71)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

Lee was not only top of his class at West Point, he has the highest graduating G.P.A in the history of the U.S. Military Academy. The 2nd is General Douglas MacArthur.


41 posted on 12/19/2013 3:14:17 AM PST by castlegreyskull
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To: yarddog

Hood was a disaster in the defense of Atlanta too although Sherman was a very tough opponent. “As we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea, while we were marching through Georgia”.


42 posted on 12/19/2013 3:14:33 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: BatGuano

Do you think they will chisel off the carving off the side of Stone Mountain of Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and Jeff Davis?


43 posted on 12/19/2013 3:16:09 AM PST by castlegreyskull
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To: Bringbackthedraft

Won’t happen.


44 posted on 12/19/2013 3:18:21 AM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" ~ Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Usagi_yo

They don’t make them like that anymore. The war of northern aggression was the start of the downward slide of the U.S. in my opinion.


45 posted on 12/19/2013 4:20:31 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: The Iceman Cometh
They will Pull Shermans Portrait down as well because he didn't like Blacks.
All will be replaced by pictures of Wesley Clark and Colon Powell.
46 posted on 12/19/2013 4:21:21 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
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To: castlegreyskull

If I’m not mistaken Lee graduated from four years at WP without a single demerit.


47 posted on 12/19/2013 4:33:40 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: yarddog
The only way such soldiers could have been used was in holding positions.

The problem is that when you use your army in this way the very best you can hope for is to delay the inevitable.

During the Atlanta campaign Johnston fought very skillful delaying/holding actions all the way from Chattanooga to Atlanta. But he still wound up with Atlanta beseiged.

So Hood was put in command and instructed to fight. Which he did, and promptly lost as many men in a few days as Johnston had over some months.

But the relevant point is that defensive strategy cannot win unless the enemy gives up in frustration.

The South could NOT win a long war of attrition. Lee's strategy of knocking the Union out of the war by crushing its armies on northern soil was the ONLY one that had a chance of success. As it turned out, he was able to implement the invading part but not the crushing part. But it was a very near thing. Just finished another book about Gettysburg. Everybody's heard about Pickett's Charge, but I had been unaware how many times on Day 2 Lee came within a whisker of breaking Meade. It was something like half a dozen. Sheer luck, more than anything else, stymied him.

I think there is no question Lee had deduced the only strategy that MIGHT have worked.

I do have on caveat. Had European countries, notably UK, come in on the CSA side, it would have been an entirely different war.

48 posted on 12/19/2013 4:45:30 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: flying Elvis

They can put up pictures of Snowden alongside them. I mean, if we are honoring traitors, let’s go full hog.


49 posted on 12/19/2013 5:02:37 AM PST by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: yarddog

T’anks—yarddog—I think if they remove Lee they will remove Eisenhower as well. I remember what “Ike” said when some idiot questioned his portrait of Lee.— Yours is a more excellent reply....T’anks


50 posted on 12/19/2013 5:11:54 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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