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The End of Erdogan? (Turkey)
Foreign Policy ^ | DECEMBER 20, 2013 | John Hannah

Posted on 12/22/2013 11:34:46 AM PST by Texas Fossil

There's a very big story developing in Turkey that all foreign policy mavens should be watching closely. Exactly how big remains to be seen, but the stakes are huge. At issue: Will the decade-long domination of Turkish politics by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Islamist-leaning Justice and Development Party (AKP) continue? Or is the Erdogan era about to come crashing down, fatally weakened by scandal, infighting, and authoritarian overreach?

Early Tuesday morning, police in Istanbul and Ankara carried out a wave of stunning arrests that included powerful businessmen, the sons of three cabinet ministers, and the head of an important state-owned financial institution, Halkbank. The operation flowed from a series of corruption-related investigations that have apparently been underway for a year or more. All the key targets swept up in the raids are closely linked to Erdogan's government.

(Excerpt) Read more at foreignpolicy.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; Syria
KEYWORDS: armenia; azerbaijan; bulgaria; cyprus; erdogan; georgia; globaljihad; greece; iran; islamist; kurdistan; lebanon; muslimbrotherhood; muslimworld; romania; russia; syria; turkey
Are there others trying to connect the dots between Libya, Benghazi, Egypt, Turkey. There is a pattern, what are the common foreign influence connections.

This is a well written article about Turkey and it's leadership.

Now the outcome? I am in no position to guess. But what has been happening in Turkey is not representative of it's past. It is not a good pattern. But it is the pattern associated with the Muslim Brotherhood. And with that with BHO, Jr. (aka Obozo)

1 posted on 12/22/2013 11:34:46 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil
But it is the pattern associated with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Associated with them? The MB was just as surprised by events in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt as anyone else. Like Lenin in 1919, the MB just happened to be the first organization to get their poop in a group and reach for power amid the confusion.

2 posted on 12/22/2013 11:41:00 AM PST by SeeSharp
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To: SeeSharp

My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?

That may shed some light on your thesis.


3 posted on 12/22/2013 11:43:45 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

I would suspect that Obama will support Erdogan and do what he can to prop him up. As far as the fight within Turkey, it is between two Muslim power centers; the secular opposition doesn’t seem to be a meaningful player.


4 posted on 12/22/2013 11:56:56 AM PST by Truth29
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To: Texas Fossil
My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?

The day BHO was elected.

5 posted on 12/22/2013 11:57:36 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Texas Fossil

There’s no hope that Turkey will ever become a Democracy. With a majority of Muslims, that simply isn’t possible. But it would be really great if the Generals managed to take the country back while the two Muslim factions fought it out.

But I suppose at this point that’s only a very faint hope.


6 posted on 12/22/2013 12:07:15 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Texas Fossil; SeeSharp

>>My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?

January 20, 2009


7 posted on 12/22/2013 12:08:25 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Truth29
I think you're correct. From early 2012: "US President Barack Obama has listed Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan among the five world leaders who he has the closest personal ties with."
8 posted on 12/22/2013 12:10:47 PM PST by pluvmantelo (...the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Obama.)
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To: Texas Fossil

“My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?”

They came in with Obama-the-Undocumented Tyrant
and were given full power by the docile, drunk, whoring,
and EXEMPT U.S. Congress.


9 posted on 12/22/2013 12:13:42 PM PST by Diogenesis
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To: Diogenesis; FreedomPoster

That reinforced my point. That Obozo has been controlled from the beginning by outside interest and foreign powers.

Non of this happened in a vacuum. All of this subversion and destruction was planned. And it is truly TREASON.


10 posted on 12/22/2013 12:17:04 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Truth29

Surely they saw what happened in Egypt.

The military in Turkey has always been a powerful influence. It seems that is necessary in a Muslim country to prevent extreme excesses by the government.

Turkey has been largely secular for a long time. But the MB has changed all of that.

Turkey was long ago in NATO. But now? What a mess. It has Obozo’s signature all over it. Planned total destruction.


11 posted on 12/22/2013 12:20:53 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

I think there has been a coup, treason is ancillary.


12 posted on 12/22/2013 12:33:49 PM PST by Ray76
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To: berdie

later


13 posted on 12/22/2013 12:37:18 PM PST by berdie
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To: Texas Fossil
Erdogan exhibits many/most of the traits of the early '30s Hitler.

The End of Erdogan?...would be a good thing. Make that a great thing.

And the accession of Turkey to the EU a horrible, horrible thing.

14 posted on 12/22/2013 1:12:59 PM PST by Moltke (Sapere aude!)
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To: Moltke

No argument with your logic.


15 posted on 12/22/2013 1:33:13 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Ray76

If the public recognizes that, there will be a hot war.

Well, at least in some of the states. And those are the states where things are still produced, as opposed to those where most are dependent on the state for survival.


16 posted on 12/22/2013 1:35:32 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...
Early Tuesday morning, police in Istanbul and Ankara carried out a wave of stunning arrests that included powerful businessmen, the sons of three cabinet ministers, and the head of an important state-owned financial institution, Halkbank. The operation flowed from a series of corruption-related investigations that have apparently been underway for a year or more. All the key targets swept up in the raids are closely linked to Erdogan's government.
He's been holding kangaroo courts and show trials to imprison his political adversaries or potential adversaries, so this is probably more of the same. If this is directed toward his allies, it's probably merely an internal struggle within his Islamofascist party. Thanks Texas Fossil.
17 posted on 12/22/2013 4:10:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: FreedomPoster; Texas Fossil; SeeSharp

When did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?

I would say before Obama. It started when Hillary had her best pal there, Huma Abedin. Or maybe even earlier than that when the Bush presidents were cozying up to their pals, the Saudis. Who knows how long this has really been going on?


18 posted on 12/22/2013 8:22:45 PM PST by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Texas Fossil; a_Turk; TigerLikesRooster; nuconvert; Cap Huff; gandalftb

This is a very complex and interesting development with strange ingredients. A lot will be exposed in the struggle between the Service (Hizmet) and Erdogan/AKP.

Part of the background

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-20/turkey-will-either-lose-erdogan-or-democracy.html

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-334668-iranian-businessman-zarrabs-chief-saved-by-the-bell-report-claims.html

BZ just paid a fraction of the money
http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/2224256.html


19 posted on 12/23/2013 7:32:17 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Thanks, will have to digest those links.


20 posted on 12/23/2013 8:45:28 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: AdmSmith

International High Finance.

Game of cat and mouse.


21 posted on 12/23/2013 10:20:01 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

welcome to the world of conundrums.


22 posted on 12/23/2013 12:16:39 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Yep, can of worms. With many facets.


23 posted on 12/23/2013 1:01:34 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil; gandalftb; a_Turk; SunkenCiv
It is difficult to understand what is going on in Turkey, but my general hypothesis is that Islam and democracy do not mix. Turkey deserves a better government, but the road to that is not clear to me. What is the ultimate goal of the Hizmet? What will happen when AKP will split?

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-gulenist-subversion-of-turkey-by-dani-rodrik

http://balyozdavasivegercekler.com/2012/11/05/fethullah-gulen-the-jews-and-hypocrisy/

Spengler on Turkey
http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2013/04/23/david-spengler-goldman-turkeys-ticking-debt-time-bomb/

http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2012/01/09/david-spengler-goldman-recall-notice-for-the-turkish-model/

24 posted on 12/26/2013 1:35:43 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Future of Turkey is unclear.

But it is clear that the connection of the MB & al Qaeda & Obozo’s support are all involved in Libya & Benghazi, Egypt, Turkey and Iran. If this is exposed properly, it is the smoking gun, both in the US and in those countries involved.

I think it is coming.

Now where will the trail lead back to? What group is the actual puppet master that put Obozo in power? This is not some little group. It is a Global Conspiracy. (use that label with caution)


25 posted on 12/26/2013 5:28:19 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: SeeSharp

The Chaos in Turkey, Libya and Egypt is scripted by none other than Obozo and his puppetmasters.

It is not an accident, they are creating the chaos to allow them to grab power.

This will not end well.


26 posted on 12/26/2013 5:40:30 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: AdmSmith
hypothesis is that Islam and democracy do not mix

Well they don't. Islam is a fusion of church (if you call it that) & state. The nature of that religion (term used loosely) is NOT Compatible with Democracy. But I have been told by young Muslims that it is compatible with Communism. (I think that is only a fleeting compatibility)

27 posted on 12/26/2013 5:45:49 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil

Yes, at present they do not mix, the question is if they ever will mix, and my hypothesis is that it is not the case.

No, Islam and Communism are competing ideologies for how a country should be run, so they are not compatible.


28 posted on 12/26/2013 7:11:28 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

I have been told by “young” “chip on shoulder” Muslims that they are, but in reality I agree with you that they are not.

Both think they are entitled to rule the world. Nothing can ever overcome that conflict.


29 posted on 12/26/2013 9:16:29 AM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Texas Fossil; gandalftb; a_Turk; SunkenCiv
Mr. Gulen hinted that his movement—known internally as Hizmet, which means service, and externally as Cemaat, which means congregation—would like to see a challenge to Mr. Erdogan’s Islamist-leaning Justice and Development Party, or AKP.

He didn't rule out members of his flock shifting their support to the opposition Republican People's Party—Mr. Erdogan’s secularist nemesis, which was established by modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Delegations from the two sides met in New York in early December, but no announcements resulted.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304027204579332670740491570

and
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/dani-rodrik-says-that-turkey-s-prime-minister-has-only-himself-to-blame-for-the-country-s-current-political-turmoil

30 posted on 01/21/2014 1:55:28 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: Texas Fossil; gandalftb; a_Turk; SunkenCiv
Islamic scholar Gülen says Turkey's graft scandal can't be covered up
http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=E6A57D194B65555B66BDD81491B8D460?newsId=337707&columnistId=0

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_presidential_election,_2014 later this year (Summer?) will be interesting.

The campaign will reveal a lot of strange issues.

31 posted on 01/28/2014 4:43:13 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Fethulah Gulen = Ayatullah Humeini. His US Greencard sponsor? Graham Fuller (CIA).

“Gulen was a staunch enemy of secularism in Turkey. He pushed for an authoritarian Islamic state. In fact, a Wikileaks wire reveals how Istanbul Chief Rabbi Ishak Haleva tried to warn USA of this man’s activities, saying he is a “radical Islamist” whose moderate message cloaks a more sinister and radical agenda.”

http://www.progressivepress.net/the-tale-of-uncle-tsarnaev-cia-chief-graham-fuller-and-a-turkish-islamist-who-lives-in-usa/


32 posted on 02/06/2014 8:22:45 PM PST by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice)
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To: Texas Fossil; gandalftb; a_Turk; SunkenCiv; nuconvert
My impression is that AKP is at work turning a half-secularist society and a secular state into an entirely Islamic one.

This http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/whose-turkey-is-it.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

is a good article, but it is lacking info about the economic situation and somewhat too positive on Erdogan. It does not give any enlightenment's on Gulen, and I still can not decide what to think of him.

Below are two important comments from the article:

The radicalization of Turkey, its departure from Ataturk's reforms, has been going on for eleven years. The jailing of journalists, changes in school curricula, women back in burka even in Istanbul. It's been a slow process — deliberately slow — and very sure. Erdogan didn't want to attract attention, and because the United States and Europe wanted to think well of him, they let small things slide.

Ergogan’s militant brand of Islam. isn't news. It's just that news organizations chose not to notice.

and:
For the country to move forward, Erdogan must go. He has outlived his usefulness. Erdogan and many AKP members have demostrated their close allegiance to the Muslim Brotherhood and the Jihadis in Syria. Dont’ forget that Erdogan provide free access to Syira for Jihadi, as well as giving them Medical care and training facilties.

Also don't forget that during the war with Iraq Erdogan refused to allow the US to open a 2nd Front going through Turkey - yet he claimed he needed Patriot batteries to protect him for Assad. He is truly a man that no country can trust as an ally.

33 posted on 02/08/2014 9:20:25 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

If Erdogan gets voted out, there *may* be a nice orderly transition, but it’s more likely that within a year or two we’ll look back on this as the good old days.


34 posted on 02/08/2014 1:02:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: SunkenCiv

As this is a Muslim country perhaps it has to be governed by the Military.


35 posted on 02/08/2014 1:16:08 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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International credit rating agency Standard & Poor (S&P) revised Turkey’s credit outlook from stable to negative on Friday, while keeping its credit note as BB+.
A statement from S&P on Friday listed two reasons for Turkey’s credit outlook revision.
“First, we believe that Turkey’s fiscal and monetary policies have exposed the country to a potential hard landing as external conditions tighten. In particular, Turkey’s external and fiscal positions could suffer beyond our base-line forecasts published on Nov. 22, 2013, should GDP performance worsen beyond our current expectations,” the statement said.
“Second, Turkey appears to have suffered an unanticipated erosion of institutional checks and balances and governance standards. For example, we believe that any constraints on the independence and transparency of the Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey (CBRT) pose a risk to an economy that has traditionally relied on significant external financing needs.”

http://www.worldbulletin.net/turkey/128452/sp-revises-turkeys-credit-outlook-to-negative


36 posted on 02/08/2014 1:21:48 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: a_Turk
Gulen chain of U S Charter schools, largest in our nation, has been sending our tax dollars to his cause for years, as he remains holed up in Pennsylvania Pocono mountains.

How much power does he retain and what does he control. Erdogan tried to shut down his schools in Turkey. Gulen says he will work deep in the system until there is enough power to overthrow. Bears watching..

37 posted on 02/08/2014 1:25:01 PM PST by codder too
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To: codder too

The climate in Turkey is again far from normal in the run-up to the March 30 local elections.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/02/turkey-gulenists-power-struggle-opposition-elections.html


38 posted on 02/10/2014 3:36:24 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: Texas Fossil; gandalftb; a_Turk; SunkenCiv; nuconvert; codder too

In the voice recording, published on YouTube late on Monday, Erdogan seems to be warning his son Bilal about cash money stashed in several houses. It was not possible to decipher from conversations how much money is involved and in how many houses this amount of money is stocked, but an introductory note at the beginning of the video says the plan involves at least $1 billion cash stashed in five houses.

The conversation allegedly took place on Dec. 17, when prosecutors ordered police to raid dozens of addresses to collect evidence. Dozens of suspects were arrested, including an Iranian businessman Reza Zarrab and chief of state bank Halkbank, Süleyman Aslan. Some of the suspects were later released.

At the beginning of the phone conversation, the prime minister briefs his son Bilal about the raid and asks him to “zero” the amount stashed at houses of several people.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-340365-turkish-main-opposition-convenes-over-erdogans-voice-recording.html

the recording http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvf4aeRLu0E

more info:
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist/abdullah-bozkurt_340314_money-trail-in-corruption-case.html

It will be difficult for Erdogan to handle this


39 posted on 02/24/2014 3:08:59 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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English translation http://erdogansdollars.blogspot.se/2014/02/how-erdogan-pm-of-turkey-asked-his-son.html


40 posted on 02/24/2014 3:18:33 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks AdmSmith.

While in college, older journalism student (and good buddy) played a cassette tape copy for me; the contents were in some foreign language, and it was purportedly a cabinet meeting of the last Shah of Iran.

The Shah et al was supposedly discussing an idea wherein various covert agencies would stir up trouble with violence directed at both gov’t and against the jihadists who not long after took over (thanks to the de facto collusion of Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and Zbig-boy).

The alleged idea was, the violence would turn the Iranian public (which had been completely disarmed by the Shah’s regime, unable to defend itself) against the jihadist uprising.

My journalist friend suggested that *I* should write the story about it, as he was unable to do it, he couldn’t have any solid connection with the tape. Since I didn’t understand what was being said on the tape, nor did I know its provenance, I wasn’t willing to do it, period.

It occurred to me at the time (and nothing has emerged to make me doubt it) that the tape and the “explanation” was a manifestation of an agitprop campaign against the Shah, orchestrated from outside of Iran.

It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that this purported tape of Erdogan is the same kind of thing.

And the same source is building the meme.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3104397/posts?page=17#17

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3104397/posts?page=34#34


41 posted on 02/24/2014 6:47:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: AdmSmith

Thanks.

I knew he was in difficulty, but did not know it was that bad.

His reactions are revealing of his crime.

Will it bring him down? I sure hope so.

Turkey does not need to go over to the “dark side” (Islamist).

They have always been lack lustre, but solidly controlled by the military.

Turkish POLs are another matter. Like ours.


42 posted on 02/24/2014 6:55:36 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Texas Fossil

I still have no clear understanding of the ultimate objectives of Gülen. From a critical article:

The Gülen movement has two sides: One that faces the world and another that hides from it. Its finances are particularly murky. Rich businessmen donate millions, but civil servants and skilled manual workers also contribute to the financing of Gülen projects. Fethullahcis donate an average of 10 percent of their income to the community, with some giving up to 70 percent.

Gülen likes to portray himself as a modest preacher akin to a Muslim Gandhi. One of his mantras is: “Build schools instead of mosques.”

But before he moved to the United States, Gülen treated the West as the enemy. “Until the day of judgment,” he wrote in his book “Cag ve Nesil” (This Era and the Young Generation), “Westerners will exhibit no human behavior.” Gülen condemned Turks who embraced Europe as “freeloaders,” “parasites” and “leukemia.” http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/guelen-movement-accused-of-being-a-sect-a-848763.html

A 45 min video:
http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/15012014


43 posted on 02/25/2014 2:35:19 AM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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To: AdmSmith

Turks have some really bad choices.

In practice democracy in this type of society is at best, very difficult to make work.

Our founders understood only a moral people could make our
Constitution work. It is argued that we are no longer that, and the effects show.


44 posted on 02/25/2014 5:03:50 AM PST by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: reg45

Likely well before that. Clinton, Bush and Bush are all FOSAs - Friends of Saudi Arabia (or at least their money).


45 posted on 02/25/2014 5:26:01 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: codder too

Gulen = bad guy

Erdogan = bad guy

This is an enemy of my enemy situation and a failure of EU leadership. PC is the cause.


46 posted on 02/25/2014 5:30:03 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: AdmSmith

Gulen is a bad guy. The schools exist as part of a long term plan, not much different than the propaganda fed to students in government schools. It’s mind control with political control as the purpose. Gulen is a cancer in American and the world.


47 posted on 02/25/2014 5:33:14 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; Moltke; SunkenCiv; Texas Fossil; a_Turk; nuconvert

The destruction of Turkey:

My cousin has been a physics teacher for twenty years. During the last five years she was made to hand over her physics classes to a member of an Islamic tariqat [order]. She was told to remain at the teacher’s common room during her class periods, so that it looked as if physics was being taught at that hour as stated in the curriculum. For five years those pupils learned nothing about physics - and all about jihad. She felt incapable of changing the situation and therefore she resigned.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/safak-pavey/rise-of-political-islam-in-turkey-how-west-got-it-wrong

and here is how he is financing it
http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2014/09/24/erdogans-flying-carpet-unravels/

It will soon crash.


48 posted on 11/04/2014 3:10:54 PM PST by AdmSmith (GCTGATATGTCTATGATTACTCAT)
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