Skip to comments.The End of Erdogan? (Turkey)
Posted on 12/22/2013 11:34:46 AM PST by Texas Fossil
There's a very big story developing in Turkey that all foreign policy mavens should be watching closely. Exactly how big remains to be seen, but the stakes are huge. At issue: Will the decade-long domination of Turkish politics by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Islamist-leaning Justice and Development Party (AKP) continue? Or is the Erdogan era about to come crashing down, fatally weakened by scandal, infighting, and authoritarian overreach?
Early Tuesday morning, police in Istanbul and Ankara carried out a wave of stunning arrests that included powerful businessmen, the sons of three cabinet ministers, and the head of an important state-owned financial institution, Halkbank. The operation flowed from a series of corruption-related investigations that have apparently been underway for a year or more. All the key targets swept up in the raids are closely linked to Erdogan's government.
(Excerpt) Read more at foreignpolicy.com ...
This is a well written article about Turkey and it's leadership.
Now the outcome? I am in no position to guess. But what has been happening in Turkey is not representative of it's past. It is not a good pattern. But it is the pattern associated with the Muslim Brotherhood. And with that with BHO, Jr. (aka Obozo)
Associated with them? The MB was just as surprised by events in Tunisia, Libya, and Egypt as anyone else. Like Lenin in 1919, the MB just happened to be the first organization to get their poop in a group and reach for power amid the confusion.
My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?
That may shed some light on your thesis.
I would suspect that Obama will support Erdogan and do what he can to prop him up. As far as the fight within Turkey, it is between two Muslim power centers; the secular opposition doesn’t seem to be a meaningful player.
The day BHO was elected.
There’s no hope that Turkey will ever become a Democracy. With a majority of Muslims, that simply isn’t possible. But it would be really great if the Generals managed to take the country back while the two Muslim factions fought it out.
But I suppose at this point that’s only a very faint hope.
>>My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?
January 20, 2009
“My question, at what point did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?”
They came in with Obama-the-Undocumented Tyrant
and were given full power by the docile, drunk, whoring,
and EXEMPT U.S. Congress.
That reinforced my point. That Obozo has been controlled from the beginning by outside interest and foreign powers.
Non of this happened in a vacuum. All of this subversion and destruction was planned. And it is truly TREASON.
Surely they saw what happened in Egypt.
The military in Turkey has always been a powerful influence. It seems that is necessary in a Muslim country to prevent extreme excesses by the government.
Turkey has been largely secular for a long time. But the MB has changed all of that.
Turkey was long ago in NATO. But now? What a mess. It has Obozo’s signature all over it. Planned total destruction.
I think there has been a coup, treason is ancillary.
The End of Erdogan?...would be a good thing. Make that a great thing.
And the accession of Turkey to the EU a horrible, horrible thing.
No argument with your logic.
If the public recognizes that, there will be a hot war.
Well, at least in some of the states. And those are the states where things are still produced, as opposed to those where most are dependent on the state for survival.
Early Tuesday morning, police in Istanbul and Ankara carried out a wave of stunning arrests that included powerful businessmen, the sons of three cabinet ministers, and the head of an important state-owned financial institution, Halkbank. The operation flowed from a series of corruption-related investigations that have apparently been underway for a year or more. All the key targets swept up in the raids are closely linked to Erdogan's government.He's been holding kangaroo courts and show trials to imprison his political adversaries or potential adversaries, so this is probably more of the same. If this is directed toward his allies, it's probably merely an internal struggle within his Islamofascist party. Thanks Texas Fossil.
When did the MB infiltrate the White Hut?
I would say before Obama. It started when Hillary had her best pal there, Huma Abedin. Or maybe even earlier than that when the Bush presidents were cozying up to their pals, the Saudis. Who knows how long this has really been going on?
This is a very complex and interesting development with strange ingredients. A lot will be exposed in the struggle between the Service (Hizmet) and Erdogan/AKP.
Part of the background
BZ just paid a fraction of the money
Thanks, will have to digest those links.
International High Finance.
Game of cat and mouse.
welcome to the world of conundrums.
Yep, can of worms. With many facets.
Future of Turkey is unclear.
But it is clear that the connection of the MB & al Qaeda & Obozo’s support are all involved in Libya & Benghazi, Egypt, Turkey and Iran. If this is exposed properly, it is the smoking gun, both in the US and in those countries involved.
I think it is coming.
Now where will the trail lead back to? What group is the actual puppet master that put Obozo in power? This is not some little group. It is a Global Conspiracy. (use that label with caution)
The Chaos in Turkey, Libya and Egypt is scripted by none other than Obozo and his puppetmasters.
It is not an accident, they are creating the chaos to allow them to grab power.
This will not end well.
Well they don't. Islam is a fusion of church (if you call it that) & state. The nature of that religion (term used loosely) is NOT Compatible with Democracy. But I have been told by young Muslims that it is compatible with Communism. (I think that is only a fleeting compatibility)
Yes, at present they do not mix, the question is if they ever will mix, and my hypothesis is that it is not the case.
No, Islam and Communism are competing ideologies for how a country should be run, so they are not compatible.
I have been told by “young” “chip on shoulder” Muslims that they are, but in reality I agree with you that they are not.
Both think they are entitled to rule the world. Nothing can ever overcome that conflict.
He didn't rule out members of his flock shifting their support to the opposition Republican People's PartyMr. Erdogan’s secularist nemesis, which was established by modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Delegations from the two sides met in New York in early December, but no announcements resulted.
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_presidential_election,_2014 later this year (Summer?) will be interesting.
The campaign will reveal a lot of strange issues.
Fethulah Gulen = Ayatullah Humeini. His US Greencard sponsor? Graham Fuller (CIA).
“Gulen was a staunch enemy of secularism in Turkey. He pushed for an authoritarian Islamic state. In fact, a Wikileaks wire reveals how Istanbul Chief Rabbi Ishak Haleva tried to warn USA of this mans activities, saying he is a radical Islamist whose moderate message cloaks a more sinister and radical agenda.”
is a good article, but it is lacking info about the economic situation and somewhat too positive on Erdogan. It does not give any enlightenment's on Gulen, and I still can not decide what to think of him.
Below are two important comments from the article:
The radicalization of Turkey, its departure from Ataturk's reforms, has been going on for eleven years. The jailing of journalists, changes in school curricula, women back in burka even in Istanbul. It's been a slow process — deliberately slow — and very sure. Erdogan didn't want to attract attention, and because the United States and Europe wanted to think well of him, they let small things slide.
Ergogan’s militant brand of Islam. isn't news. It's just that news organizations chose not to notice.
For the country to move forward, Erdogan must go. He has outlived his usefulness. Erdogan and many AKP members have demostrated their close allegiance to the Muslim Brotherhood and the Jihadis in Syria. Dont’ forget that Erdogan provide free access to Syira for Jihadi, as well as giving them Medical care and training facilties.
Also don't forget that during the war with Iraq Erdogan refused to allow the US to open a 2nd Front going through Turkey - yet he claimed he needed Patriot batteries to protect him for Assad. He is truly a man that no country can trust as an ally.
If Erdogan gets voted out, there *may* be a nice orderly transition, but it’s more likely that within a year or two we’ll look back on this as the good old days.
As this is a Muslim country perhaps it has to be governed by the Military.
International credit rating agency Standard & Poor (S&P) revised Turkeys credit outlook from stable to negative on Friday, while keeping its credit note as BB+.
A statement from S&P on Friday listed two reasons for Turkeys credit outlook revision.
“First, we believe that Turkey’s fiscal and monetary policies have exposed the country to a potential hard landing as external conditions tighten. In particular, Turkey’s external and fiscal positions could suffer beyond our base-line forecasts published on Nov. 22, 2013, should GDP performance worsen beyond our current expectations, the statement said.
“Second, Turkey appears to have suffered an unanticipated erosion of institutional checks and balances and governance standards. For example, we believe that any constraints on the independence and transparency of the Central Bank of the Republic of Turkey (CBRT) pose a risk to an economy that has traditionally relied on significant external financing needs.
How much power does he retain and what does he control. Erdogan tried to shut down his schools in Turkey. Gulen says he will work deep in the system until there is enough power to overthrow. Bears watching..
The climate in Turkey is again far from normal in the run-up to the March 30 local elections.
In the voice recording, published on YouTube late on Monday, Erdogan seems to be warning his son Bilal about cash money stashed in several houses. It was not possible to decipher from conversations how much money is involved and in how many houses this amount of money is stocked, but an introductory note at the beginning of the video says the plan involves at least $1 billion cash stashed in five houses.
The conversation allegedly took place on Dec. 17, when prosecutors ordered police to raid dozens of addresses to collect evidence. Dozens of suspects were arrested, including an Iranian businessman Reza Zarrab and chief of state bank Halkbank, Süleyman Aslan. Some of the suspects were later released.
At the beginning of the phone conversation, the prime minister briefs his son Bilal about the raid and asks him to zero the amount stashed at houses of several people.
the recording http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvf4aeRLu0E
It will be difficult for Erdogan to handle this
While in college, older journalism student (and good buddy) played a cassette tape copy for me; the contents were in some foreign language, and it was purportedly a cabinet meeting of the last Shah of Iran.
The Shah et al was supposedly discussing an idea wherein various covert agencies would stir up trouble with violence directed at both gov’t and against the jihadists who not long after took over (thanks to the de facto collusion of Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and Zbig-boy).
The alleged idea was, the violence would turn the Iranian public (which had been completely disarmed by the Shah’s regime, unable to defend itself) against the jihadist uprising.
My journalist friend suggested that *I* should write the story about it, as he was unable to do it, he couldn’t have any solid connection with the tape. Since I didn’t understand what was being said on the tape, nor did I know its provenance, I wasn’t willing to do it, period.
It occurred to me at the time (and nothing has emerged to make me doubt it) that the tape and the “explanation” was a manifestation of an agitprop campaign against the Shah, orchestrated from outside of Iran.
It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that this purported tape of Erdogan is the same kind of thing.
And the same source is building the meme.
I knew he was in difficulty, but did not know it was that bad.
His reactions are revealing of his crime.
Will it bring him down? I sure hope so.
Turkey does not need to go over to the “dark side” (Islamist).
They have always been lack lustre, but solidly controlled by the military.
Turkish POLs are another matter. Like ours.
I still have no clear understanding of the ultimate objectives of Gülen. From a critical article:
The Gülen movement has two sides: One that faces the world and another that hides from it. Its finances are particularly murky. Rich businessmen donate millions, but civil servants and skilled manual workers also contribute to the financing of Gülen projects. Fethullahcis donate an average of 10 percent of their income to the community, with some giving up to 70 percent.
Gülen likes to portray himself as a modest preacher akin to a Muslim Gandhi. One of his mantras is: “Build schools instead of mosques.”
But before he moved to the United States, Gülen treated the West as the enemy. “Until the day of judgment,” he wrote in his book “Cag ve Nesil” (This Era and the Young Generation), “Westerners will exhibit no human behavior.” Gülen condemned Turks who embraced Europe as “freeloaders,” “parasites” and “leukemia.” http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/guelen-movement-accused-of-being-a-sect-a-848763.html
A 45 min video:
Turks have some really bad choices.
In practice democracy in this type of society is at best, very difficult to make work.
Our founders understood only a moral people could make our
Constitution work. It is argued that we are no longer that, and the effects show.
Likely well before that. Clinton, Bush and Bush are all FOSAs - Friends of Saudi Arabia (or at least their money).
Gulen = bad guy
Erdogan = bad guy
This is an enemy of my enemy situation and a failure of EU leadership. PC is the cause.
Gulen is a bad guy. The schools exist as part of a long term plan, not much different than the propaganda fed to students in government schools. It’s mind control with political control as the purpose. Gulen is a cancer in American and the world.
The destruction of Turkey:
My cousin has been a physics teacher for twenty years. During the last five years she was made to hand over her physics classes to a member of an Islamic tariqat [order]. She was told to remain at the teachers common room during her class periods, so that it looked as if physics was being taught at that hour as stated in the curriculum. For five years those pupils learned nothing about physics - and all about jihad. She felt incapable of changing the situation and therefore she resigned.
and here is how he is financing it
It will soon crash.
David Goldman aka Spengler on Turkey: The sick man of Europe, once again
Turkeys political crisis stems from profound economic weaknesses, demographic imbalances and confessional, social and ethnic fractures. Whatever emerges from the coup attempt, it will take a great deal more than a change at the top to cure the sick man of Europe.
and another article about Hizmet (Gulen Movement) by Bayram Balci
but still I have no definite idea on what to think about Hizmet.
Sounds like a cult