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'GREEN BULLETS' OVERTAKING LEAD THANKS TO EPA, STATE REGS, MILITARY
breitbart ^ | december 19, 2013 | awr hawkins

Posted on 12/22/2013 9:22:03 PM PST by lowbridge

As Breitbart News reported on December 1, EPA regulations led to the closing of the Herculaneam lead smelter in Herculaneum, Missouri, which is expected to push up prices for traditional lead ammo.

On top of this are regulations like the recent statewide lead ammo ban in California. Signed by Governor Jerry Brown (D) on October 11, this ban forces hunters to seek out nontraditional alternatives for their ammunition. In this way, the ban mandates "green bullets" by default.

Moreover, as Fox News reports, the military has set 2018 as its target date to have troops operating lead-ammo-free. "Green bullets" have been under testing at Picatinny Arsenal since 2010, and the Army plans to issue "a lead-free version of the 7.62 mm rounds fired from M-14 rifles... in 2014." The Army already switched to a greener 5.56 mm "enhanced performance round" in 2010.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ammunition; banglist; environuts; envirowackos; epa; guns; hysterics; obama; obamaepa

1 posted on 12/22/2013 9:22:03 PM PST by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge

So how much for copper bullets?


2 posted on 12/22/2013 9:25:07 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: lowbridge

One should always keep the “environment” in mind while killing his enemies.


3 posted on 12/22/2013 9:25:21 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Merry Christmas to all my fellow Americans. "Whatever" to everybody else!)
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To: Red Steel

That’s what I thought also.
Copper bullets.


4 posted on 12/22/2013 9:28:48 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Kill them with kindness.
Give them some hot coco.


5 posted on 12/22/2013 9:30:17 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: lowbridge
The Army already switched to a greener 5.56 mm "enhanced performance round" in 2010.

So thanks to the envirowackos, the military now has a more lethal bullet? Awesome!

6 posted on 12/22/2013 9:32:34 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Merry Christmas to all my fellow Americans. "Whatever" to everybody else!)
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To: lowbridge

I read an obscure article somewhere with someone in management at an ammo producer, and they said the smelter in question only processed raw lead ore, but that most ammo producers get their lead from recyclers, so the actual price of ammo was not likely to be impacted at all.


7 posted on 12/22/2013 9:34:01 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

I think that since we’re already burning corn in our fighting machines, asparagus tips would make some pretty nifty, “environment friendly” bullets.


8 posted on 12/22/2013 9:37:21 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Merry Christmas to all my fellow Americans. "Whatever" to everybody else!)
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To: Red Steel

red Steel wrote:
“So how much for copper bullets?”

I’m not sure if this is a caliber you have something in, to chamber this stuff:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/459887/cor-bon-thunder-ranch-dpx-defensive-ammunition-38-special-p-110-grain-barnes-tac-xp-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

30 bucks a box for 20!!

Me? I’m going ‘further old school’. I already shoot just plain wadcutters and semi-wadcutters in my .38’s. No plus-p, or super-duper catridges, just 148 wc’s and 158 swc’s, no HP’s, either. Once I’m done with that, I’m getting what Winchester 130 FMJ’s I can. Used to work for me, when I wore a Model 15 on airbase security detail. They are flat nose, and not round nosed. I don’t figure to be shooting at folks wearing ak-rifle magazine pouch vests, so they do work fine. I’m on a budget, so 30 for 20 doesn’t work for me.


9 posted on 12/22/2013 9:42:04 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Got a lot of green tip on hand for kevlar-hided varmints.


10 posted on 12/22/2013 9:42:20 PM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: lowbridge

Enhanced performance my foot. If they were better, they would have switched to them before the EPA made them switch.


11 posted on 12/22/2013 9:42:25 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: lowbridge

tungsten-steel core all the way baby!


12 posted on 12/22/2013 9:43:53 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: lowbridge

How many kgs of Pb are used for battery production vs ammo?


13 posted on 12/22/2013 9:44:31 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: lowbridge
Getting tired of my 30-06 anyways.

Going spear next deer season.

14 posted on 12/22/2013 9:49:18 PM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: onona
And while I posted that to be pithy and douchy, I actually could have bagged three this year with a spear !

Bastiges ran right by where I was sitting. three feet away and didn't even know I was there.

15 posted on 12/22/2013 9:51:47 PM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: lowbridge

And yet many FReepers said the EPA closing down a lead smelter would have no impact. Enjoy shooting your bio-degradable bullets...


16 posted on 12/22/2013 9:52:53 PM PST by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
I think that since we’re already burning corn in our fighting machines, asparagus tips would make some pretty nifty, “environment friendly” bullets.

Aw, heck yes, but don't forget the cherry pit .30 caliber rounds or the peach pit 12-bore slugs. They're still available for invisible plastic Glock AK-47 sniper assault fully automatic weapons of war and mass destruction, complete with invisible high capacity magazines that hold nineteen jillion rounds of cop killer asparagus tips, cherry pits, and peach pits brought to you by the born again Christian right wing gun lobby militia.

(I hope I didn't leave anything out.)

17 posted on 12/22/2013 10:03:00 PM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: Red Steel
So how much for copper bullets?

a penny a piece if you make them yourself?

18 posted on 12/22/2013 10:06:55 PM PST by oldbrowser (Obamacare is a microcosm of his presidency, and the entire marxist fantasy.)
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To: Standing Wolf

It’s obvious that these ying yangs have never been on a battlefield. I’m just guessing here but it would seem to me that lead bullets would be the least of the “environmental” problems.


19 posted on 12/22/2013 10:10:04 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (Merry Christmas to all my fellow Americans. "Whatever" to everybody else!)
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To: Little Pig

This is true. This panic is fanned by the same kind of morons that left the market in 2008 and secured their losses, tin foil hats, etc, etc.


20 posted on 12/22/2013 10:21:57 PM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: oldbrowser

That’s not a bad idea. I wonder, how long until someone introduces a reasonably priced copper bullet lathe capable of “turning out” large volumes of solid copper ultra high ballistic coefficient projectiles? that’s the future right there. Such projectiles would be much more accurate and much more deadly than what they would be replacing. A shooting club could even chip in for the machine and share the costs and benefits of ownership until the price comes down.


21 posted on 12/22/2013 10:32:03 PM PST by RC one
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

save your pennies, boyos.


22 posted on 12/22/2013 10:38:19 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: lowbridge

Look up the properties of the depleted uranium in tank rounds and I have a hard time convincing myself that taking lead out of bullets is necessary.

Poisonous, pyrophoric (bursts in flame on contact with air) and radioactive, it is stuff from hell.


23 posted on 12/22/2013 10:41:33 PM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Red Steel

Solid copper bullets chew up rifle barrels.


24 posted on 12/22/2013 11:21:51 PM PST by fini
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To: Terry L Smith
Talking about old school, I have enough of the old Comblock 7.62x54R to last several lifetimes. Say what you will about Commies, but they used to understand what kind of round a main battle rifle should shoot.


Polish light ball from 1953.

25 posted on 12/22/2013 11:23:20 PM PST by atomic_dog
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To: Red Steel
So how much for copper bullets?

I believe the ATF nipped that in the bud by classifying solid copper bullets as armor piercing.

26 posted on 12/22/2013 11:46:30 PM PST by fso301
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To: Little Pig

The lead to be recycled had to come from somewhere. All copper bullet? Expensive and possibly hard on the barrel. This will affect supply and price. Hardest hit will be the bullet casters, the ones that know how to make bullets when the SHTF. Very hard time finding wheel weights now which are great for casting...of so I’ve heard...not that I do anything like that.


27 posted on 12/22/2013 11:54:10 PM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: lowbridge

Because Depleted Uranium is sooo much better than lead....


28 posted on 12/23/2013 12:49:05 AM PST by GraceG
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

Gold Bullets....

When the feds come to take your gold like FDR did back in the 30’s give it back to them as quickly as you can... at 1200+ FPS....


29 posted on 12/23/2013 12:50:12 AM PST by GraceG
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To: CurlyDave

[ Look up the properties of the depleted uranium in tank rounds and I have a hard time convincing myself that taking lead out of bullets is necessary.

Poisonous, pyrophoric (bursts in flame on contact with air) and radioactive, it is stuff from hell. ]

Chemically Uranium is quite toxic by itself never mind the radioactivity which is far higher than most isotopes of lead...

Most all heavy metals are toxic, save: Gold, Silver, and, Bismuth...

No one wants to spend the money on Gold and Silver... and Bismuth is not as malleable for bullets as lead...


30 posted on 12/23/2013 12:53:04 AM PST by GraceG
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To: oldbrowser

So how much for copper bullets?
a penny a piece if you make them yourself?

Only if they are 1982 or older. Otherwise you’re shooting 95% zinc.


31 posted on 12/23/2013 1:17:22 AM PST by Hugin
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To: fso301

Wrong. Barnes X are great bullets and made out of copper. Lots of others coming out now too.


32 posted on 12/23/2013 1:19:22 AM PST by Hugin
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To: GraceG

Silver bullets? Good for werewolves too.


33 posted on 12/23/2013 1:20:23 AM PST by Hugin
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To: Terry L Smith

“I’m going ‘further old school’. I already shoot just plain wadcutters and semi-wadcutters in my .38’s. No plus-p, or super-duper catridges, just 148 wc’s and 158 swc’s, no HP’s, either. Once I’m done with that, I’m getting what Winchester 130 FMJ’s I can. Used to work for me, when I wore a Model 15 on airbase security detail. They are flat nose, and not round nosed. I don’t figure to be shooting at folks wearing ak-rifle magazine pouch vests, so they do work fine. I’m on a budget, so 30 for 20 doesn’t work for me.”...

I used to do that before the boat sank with all my firearms AND ammo. It was a sad day indeed!


34 posted on 12/23/2013 2:50:31 AM PST by DaveA37
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To: lowbridge

Well, Okay. Where can I get some depleted uranium?


35 posted on 12/23/2013 3:23:44 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: fso301

Armor piercing bullets are not illegal.


36 posted on 12/23/2013 3:26:41 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: lowbridge

Maybe hollow points will literally mushroom on contact. Or broccoli head.


37 posted on 12/23/2013 4:18:23 AM PST by Old Yeller
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To: onona

Tell us more about spear hunting deer. I am seriously interested!


38 posted on 12/23/2013 5:00:09 AM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: Hugin; Gaffer; lowbridge
Wrong. Barnes X are great bullets and made out of copper. Lots of others coming out now too.

How then do you explain the notice on Barnes' website?

Attention:

Certain Barnes Banded Solids are currently under review by the ATF making them unavailable. Please Click Here to learn more.


39 posted on 12/23/2013 6:42:03 AM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110113095137AAuNefj

References the law at the link.

In a nutshell, it is illegal to import, manufacture, export, etc. It is NOT illegal to own, buy,sell, or shoot it.

I have a couple of AP bandoliers for the Garand. You can buy surplus in many places online.


40 posted on 12/23/2013 7:12:20 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer
In a nutshell, it is illegal to import, manufacture, export, etc. It is NOT illegal to own, buy,sell, or shoot it.

It seems to be that part about being illegal to manufacture AP is behind the ATFs action against Barnes copper bullets.

41 posted on 12/23/2013 7:19:06 AM PST by fso301
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To: lowbridge

Forty years ago, when the first anti-lead laws began, I knew the ultimate aim was ammo. Bobby Kennedy had been shot a few years before and America was still in the throes of an anti-gun panic.

All this enviro crap will be thrown in the trash the instant the US goes into a war of National Survival, like WWII.


42 posted on 12/23/2013 7:20:02 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: fso301

Yes, that’s it in a nutshell. The ATF is entirely political and most capricious in its findings. They take law and stretch its interpretations to some of the most ridiculous left-sided rules one can imagine. They purport solid copper is armor piercing, yet still allow the manufacture and sale of XM855 (SS109) 5.56 mm Penetrator rounds on the commercial market (I bought two 420 rd cans of it from Walmart!).


43 posted on 12/23/2013 7:25:40 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

LOL!


44 posted on 12/23/2013 8:04:12 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Progov

Dear Progov,

I feel your loss.

After Katrina, I’ve moved to an ‘above sea level location’, on the hill, upstairs.


45 posted on 12/23/2013 9:24:38 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: atomic_dog

Dear atomic dog,

Communist politics are what they are. The nuts-and-bolts of war have always centered around the ground guy and his rifle. I have shot the 7.62x54R. I agree with your point. I have also shot .303 English, 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5.56 and 5,45. All valid designs, all very well made and are good ‘GI timex’ pieces.

At this point in time, the only rifle design I would be on the outlook for, is a lever action rifle with a loading gate in a pistol chambering, maybe .45LC.


46 posted on 12/23/2013 9:33:14 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: fso301

I wasn’t aware of that. I’m surprised I haven’t seen something from the NRA in my email. It’s outrageous.


47 posted on 12/23/2013 12:40:48 PM PST by Hugin
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