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OH:Niles man testifies about firing shot that killed intruder
vindy.com ^ | 11 December, 2013 | Ed Runyan

Posted on 12/24/2013 5:33:25 AM PST by marktwain

He got up from his bed, walked to the kitchen and saw that “someome was prying the door open.”

Moments later, he “looked out the window and saw someone or two people run to the front of the house, so I went back into my bedroom, I grabbed my shotgun, and I heard the front door being pried open, so I shot through the front door.”

Hahn’s shotgun blast killed Terry Allen, 37, of Mineral Ridge and injured Burns, 33, of Mineral Ridge, but Hahn said he didn’t know that the shot hit anyone until Niles police arrived a short time later after Hahn’s call to Niles police.

“There was two or three guys trying to get in the house,” he told the dispatcher.

Burns is charged with murder, involuntary manslaughter in Allen’s death and attempted aggravated burglary in the July 12 break-in.

In a videotaped interview with a Niles detective, Burns admitted to being part of a ring of five people who had planned to break into the house to steal copper pipes.

He described the attempted break-in and what happened after the shotgun blast.

But Burns denies having known that someone might be home, saying the house looked vacant. To find Burns guilty of murder, prosecutors must prove that Burns tried to break into a house that he could have reasonably believed was occupied.

(Excerpt) Read more at vindy.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; niles; oh; trial
Shooter not being charged, accomplice on trial.
1 posted on 12/24/2013 5:33:25 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Just like Joe Biden told us, fire off a shotgun to discourage the would-be intruders.

And keep firing until the magazine is empty, giving a person enough time to get back to a more serious sidearm like a pistol or rifle.

Continue firing until you have determined that is all the ammunition you choose to use today.


2 posted on 12/24/2013 5:40:24 AM PST by alloysteel (Those who deny natural climate change are forever doomed to stupidity. AGW is a LIE.)
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To: marktwain

“But Burns denies having known that someone might be home, saying the house looked vacant. To find Burns guilty of murder, prosecutors must prove that Burns tried to break into a house that he could have reasonably believed was occupied.”

How about felony-murder?


3 posted on 12/24/2013 5:42:45 AM PST by Dr. Sivana (There's no salvation in politics.)
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To: marktwain
Firing through the front door is not generally considered to be the wisest way to defend your home. It makes it very easy for the prosecutors to argue that you were not under immediate threat of great bodily harm or death, and thus were not justified in using deadly force.
4 posted on 12/24/2013 5:43:26 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: marktwain

“Shooter not being charged” YET

“To find Burns guilty of murder, prosecutors must prove that Burns tried to break into a house that he could have reasonably believed was occupied”

I cannot help but wonder if the prosecutors will find it easier to blame Mr Hahn because his house “looked” vacant.


5 posted on 12/24/2013 5:45:10 AM PST by Tupelo (I am feeling more like Philip Nolan every day)
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To: marktwain
", I grabbed my shotgun, and I heard the front door being pried open, so I shot through the front door.”"

OK this guy needs to have his gun taken away from him....

A simple "go away I've got a gun" would probably have worked, Shooting THROUGH a door at something you can't see is gross negligence. What if it was a simple mistaken identity case? If someone came to my house and tried to come in and it turned out he was at the wrong address I would feel kinda bad if I killed them.

6 posted on 12/24/2013 5:52:03 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: mvpel

He only did what the VP advised us to do.


7 posted on 12/24/2013 5:54:10 AM PST by Daveinyork (IER)
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To: marktwain

…I saw “OH Niles” - and thought it was a Frasier sighting…...


8 posted on 12/24/2013 5:54:18 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: Mr. K
"OK this guy needs to have his gun taken away from him...."

That's your opinion. It may be a valid opinion, however, that is not Ohio State Law.

"Sec 2901.05 (B)(1) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force.

9 posted on 12/24/2013 5:59:33 AM PST by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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To: marktwain
and I heard the front door being pried open, so I shot through the front door.”

If he waited a few more seconds, the perp would have pried open the door and come in with a pry bar (weapon) in hand. Open-shut case then, imo. I am not a lawyer; I just play one on the internet.

10 posted on 12/24/2013 6:02:59 AM PST by VRW Conspirator ( 2+2 = V)
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To: alloysteel
Just like Joe Biden told us, fire off a shotgun to discourage the would-be intruders.

And keep firing until the magazine is empty, giving a person enough time to get back to a more serious sidearm like a pistol or rifle.

Tactically speaking, the shotgun is the more serious weapon, and you use your pistol to fight your way to it.

11 posted on 12/24/2013 6:07:42 AM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Dr. Sivana
It looks like breaking into an unoccupied building is just a misdemeanor unless it can be proven to be a burglary (as opposed to just hanging out and watching the TV, I guess).

Ohio Revised Code Chapter 2911: ROBBERY, BURGLARY, TRESPASS AND SAFECRACKING

12 posted on 12/24/2013 6:28:48 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: Yo-Yo

Out to 40 yards or so,a shotgun has about the same effect as a submachine gun.


13 posted on 12/24/2013 6:34:22 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: mvpel
Firing through the front door is not generally considered to be the wisest way to defend your home. It makes it very easy for the prosecutors to argue that you were not under immediate threat of great bodily harm or death, and thus were not justified in using deadly force.

Not to mention he would have been responsible for collateral damage that occurs if he hits an innocent bystander.

14 posted on 12/24/2013 6:36:26 AM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: sonofagun

he shot through a door- his life was not in danger, people were on the other side of the door

what if they were holding his wife hostage on the other side?

I am NOT nit picking here, I am just not going to jump to a knee-jerk defense of all-thinkgs-gun when I spot something stupid.

This man SHOT THROUGH A DOOR!! First rule of gun safety is know what you are shooting at.

If they were threatening to break in an kill him, it doesn;t say. If they were breaking in violently after him tell them he has agun, it doesn’t say- but it does not sound like it.

It sounds like he spotted them through a window and shot throught the door without warning. If that is true his life was not in danger at that moment

I am sorry if you don’t like my disagreement- i just can;t get past the shooting through a closed door.

Wasn’t there a case just a couple of months ago where a guy knocked on the wrong address and he got shot through the door? (and died) There was clearly no immediate threat to his life and was never going to be- it was an actual case of simple wrong address.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you look for any excuse to shoot it at people.


15 posted on 12/24/2013 6:44:04 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: sonofagun
That's your opinion. It may be a valid opinion, however, that is not Ohio State Law.

Your point is a great one. Regardless of where each of us lives, we need to do the research and know our local laws. In the People's Republic of Maryland (where I unfortunately live), the first post would have been right, but as you point out in Ohio the shooter had a legal right to permanently solve the neighborhood's crime problem. Personally, I like the idea of dead criminals, but I like it even more when the shooter knows he won't be going to prison.

16 posted on 12/24/2013 6:45:32 AM PST by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Mr. K

It’s better to let them in so there is no doubt whatsoever in the court’s eyes. Then light them up!

I’d have the Beretta Extrema 2 as weapon of choice against these criminals. Fires 12 rounds in less than two seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2mFcsa7mw


17 posted on 12/24/2013 6:52:50 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: marktwain

Good this is the only type of action that should have been taken… by the home owner as well as the courts


18 posted on 12/24/2013 7:06:38 AM PST by Nifster
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To: mvpel

If the perp was merely standing in front of the door, and that was all, then yes, you are correct. But when they are trying to break in, blow em away.


19 posted on 12/24/2013 7:25:16 AM PST by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: Sans-Culotte

Yes, HE, the perp, would have.


20 posted on 12/24/2013 7:27:49 AM PST by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: Mr. K

Chill a little. All I did was to quote Ohio State Law.


21 posted on 12/24/2013 7:30:37 AM PST by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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To: Pollster1

the state law seems to be ‘castle doctrine’.

not every state has that.


22 posted on 12/24/2013 8:21:54 AM PST by TurboZamboni ("PEACE ON EARTH TO MEN OF GOOD WILL".)
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To: Mr. K

>>Wasn’t there a case just a couple of months ago where a guy knocked on the wrong address and he got shot through the door? (and died) There was clearly no immediate threat to his life and was never going to be- it was an actual case of simple wrong address.<<

There’s a audible difference in someone knocking with their hand and someone prying and banging on the door with a crowbar. If there wasn’t we’d have more people shot for just knocking.


23 posted on 12/24/2013 9:04:22 AM PST by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: TurboZamboni

Exactly. In some states you can be tried for murder if you shoot and kill a criminal who is in the process of inflicting death or serious bodily harm by beating your head against the concrete. In other states, a criminal attacking you or your home could be making a fatal mistake with no legal recourse.


24 posted on 12/24/2013 9:16:20 AM PST by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Niles is a somewhat depressed area. Lots of manufacturing has departed the city.


25 posted on 12/24/2013 10:43:22 AM PST by nomad
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To: Mr. K

In spite of all your hand wringing, the guy whose life was on the line made the correct call.

BTW, consider carefully before you come pounding on my doors with a crowbar in the middle of the night.


26 posted on 12/24/2013 11:00:51 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Damn ObamaCare, full speed ahead!)
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To: Balding_Eagle
I am not hand wringing, you are deliberately being obtuse- you want to forgive him for using a gun in this manner? Look at his own words:

"I grabbed my shotgun, and I heard the front door being pried open, so I shot through the front door.” "

He said he HEARD the door being pried so he shot through the door.

Now, I personally don't mind that the dirt-bag is dead, but a JURY may think "If he only heard a door being pried open, is his life in danger? from the sound? Why didn't he say "stop I have a gun"

Do you see the point I am TRYING to make? A jury may not think his life was in danger at that point, and convict him.

He also shot in a very unsafe manner- How could he know what ELSE was behind the door that he could have hit?

The two guys that are NOT dead can easily say they stopped to ask for directions and "blammo" through the door~! (and the evidence would NOT contradict their version)

27 posted on 12/24/2013 2:45:14 PM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: sonofagun

Thanks for posting the law. I would have also been on my cell phone to 911 at the time. For my own personal reasons (and a sturdy front door) I would have waited until it became clear they were about to breach the door.

Of course waiting carries the risk of the other guys going around to a side window and/or back door and flanking me.


28 posted on 12/24/2013 2:52:41 PM PST by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Mr. K

Well, that’s why I urged you to carefully consider things before you go doing the same in my neck of the woods.

History here has shown that little to none of that which you are wring your hands over has come true, except for the part about the guy on the outside being dead.

Seems to be true for the original story also.

Thank God cooler, more level, heads prevail where I live, and perhaps where this targeted mand lives also.


29 posted on 12/24/2013 4:02:46 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (Damn ObamaCare, full speed ahead!)
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To: 21twelve
Thanks for posting the law. I would have also been on my cell phone to 911 at the time. For my own personal reasons (and a sturdy front door) I would have waited until it became clear they were about to breach the door. Of course waiting carries the risk of the other guys going around to a side window and/or back door and flanking me.

My concern is the purp being armed with a firearm. I don't know that I would shoot first, but my small town had a recent home invasion executed by three men, one of whom was armed with a shotgun.

My state also allows use of deadly force to stop a forced entry into my home.

30 posted on 12/25/2013 4:07:52 AM PST by sonofagun (Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)
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To: Balding_Eagle
I don't know if you are just a disagreeable sort or what... but OK I've tried to converse with you about it. Don't see my point? That's OK.

There is a pending murder charge against an Olympic athlete right now where he ‘heard some noise’ and shot through a closed door (and just happened to kill his girlfriend) So my point is not academic.

31 posted on 12/25/2013 5:37:07 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: Mr. K

Nor is mine. And I’m not being disagreeable. It’s my judgement that you either aren’t in possession of the facts, or want to live more dangerously than we do.

There is a widow just a few miles from me whom I’m sure wishes her husband had simply shot through the door instead of opening it earlier this year.

Our plan is to assess the situation, as the man in this story did, and then shoot through the door if we determine the threat on the other side is real. Discussed many times in our home, and plan is in place.


32 posted on 12/25/2013 10:16:04 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Damn ObamaCare, full speed ahead!)
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