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EPA Pushes Gun Control Through Green Ammo Mandate
Investor's Business Daily ^ | December 27, 2013 | IBD EDITORIALS

Posted on 12/27/2013 9:36:07 AM PST by raptor22

Gun Control: Thanks to government regulations, the closing of the last U.S. lead smelter and a push for "green" lead-free ammunition, ammo prices will skyrocket. Does the Second Amendment threaten the environment?

Having been stymied by court defeats such as the Supreme Court's deciding that the Second Amendment does indeed confer a right to keep and bear arms on individuals throughout the United States, advocates of a gun-free America and a disarmed citizenry are taking a different approach: Go after the ammunition through regulations that stifle domestic production and force the use of more expensive and eco-friendly substitutes.

Expanded regulations issued by the Environmental Protection Agency have forced the closing as of Dec. 31 of the country's last bullet-producing lead smelter — a facility operated by Doe Run Co. in Herculaneum, Mo., that first opened its doors in 1892. As a result of the closure, a company press release notes, 145 Doe Run employees and some 73 contractors will lose their jobs.

The Herculaneum smelter, according to the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, is the only one in the U.S. that can produce lead bullion from raw lead ore and the components for traditional lead ammunition.

The only alternatives, the institute says, will be to import the ammo components or use EPA-approved "green" ammunition.

The Arms Trade Treaty may be unratified, but it provides the administration with a justification for restricting U.S. imports of ammunition and components.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; ammo; ammunition; banglist; bullets; dsj02; epa; firearms; greenammo; greenammoammo; greenammunition; greenbullets; guncontrol; guns; keepandbeararms; nra; rkba; rtkba; secondamendment

1 posted on 12/27/2013 9:36:08 AM PST by raptor22
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

Gun Control Ping


2 posted on 12/27/2013 9:38:57 AM PST by raptor22 (Petty and vindictive do not be)
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To: raptor22

Don’t expect the RINOs or even the Tea Party in Congress to do a single thing about bringing Traitorobama and his EPA thugs of evil to justice. They have joined in benign complicity.


3 posted on 12/27/2013 9:39:50 AM PST by Carl Vehse
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; blackie; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
The fact that gun haters cannot accomplish their goals without resorting to subterfuge tells you everything you need to know.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

4 posted on 12/27/2013 9:42:57 AM PST by Joe Brower (The "American People" are no longer capable of self-governance.)
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To: Joe Brower

Isn’t there a provision somewhere for a second American Revolution?


5 posted on 12/27/2013 9:44:01 AM PST by basil (2ASisters.org)
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To: raptor22

Watermelons, green on the outside, commie red on the inside.


6 posted on 12/27/2013 9:45:40 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the.tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: Joe Brower

If so, the tires on every car in America will suddenly be out of balance.


7 posted on 12/27/2013 9:45:59 AM PST by Ancient Man
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To: Ancient Man

That’s okay. You won’t have any fuel to run them anyway. And the electric ones don’t spin fast enough to be a problem.................


8 posted on 12/27/2013 9:51:57 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: basil
Isn’t there a provision somewhere for a second American Revolution?

I don't know of a "provision"... but there are millions of "triggers" for one.

9 posted on 12/27/2013 9:53:18 AM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: raptor22

Of all the firearms manufacturing processes, casting bullets is one of the easier ones. There will always be lead or some suitable substitute available one way or another.


10 posted on 12/27/2013 9:53:50 AM PST by jimbobfoster
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To: raptor22

Lead Alternative bullets:

http://shotbusiness.org/what-to-know-about-alternative-bullets/


11 posted on 12/27/2013 9:54:25 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: raptor22

I guess we’ll just have to go to the environmental friendly Teflon coated ammo...lol


12 posted on 12/27/2013 9:55:20 AM PST by Despot of the Delta
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To: raptor22

Yup. Destroy RKBA by wrecking the supply chain.


13 posted on 12/27/2013 9:58:09 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: raptor22

Looks like it will cost more, but people are not stopped from buying. And since this is such a key thing to a majority of the US population, they will continue buying, no matter what.


14 posted on 12/27/2013 9:59:10 AM PST by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Joe Brower
The fact that gun haters cannot accomplish their goals without resorting to subterfuge tells you everything you need to know.

That's also true of everything representatives of the Democratic [sic] party have been doing for years.

15 posted on 12/27/2013 10:06:03 AM PST by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: raptor22

From “The Firearm Blog”
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/06/green-ammo-strikes-again-makes-soldiers-sick/

Two months ago I blogged that the Norwegian Army suspected that the ammunition used in their new H&K 416 rifles were making soldiers sicks. Chief of Staff Brig. General Rune Jakobsen initiated an investigation after Army HQ received three different reports about groups of soldiers getting sick after firing the new rifles. Symptoms included headaches, fever and joint pain. The investigation has determined that the soldiers were experiencing mild heavy metal poisoning caused by the “green” lead-free 5.56mm NATO ammunition manufactured by Nammo.

The report states that the gas exhausted from the rifles contained high levels of copper and zinc which account for all the symptoms suffered by the riflemen. A few, quite comical, short term solutions have been recommended. These include only shooting outside, slower rate of fire and spacing the shooters out more when at the range!


16 posted on 12/27/2013 10:08:16 AM PST by rey
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To: jimbobfoster
Of all the firearms manufacturing processes, casting bullets is one of the easier ones. There will always be lead or some suitable substitute available one way or another.

Most lead ore mined in the US was exported for smelting before this. And lead is the #1 recycled metal. (Think car batteries). One old car battery probably contains enough lead for a lifetime supply of .22LR bullets.

There is plenty of lead ore around, plenty of countries willing to do the smelting, and plenty of old batteries. So I doubt I'll run out of ammo before they throw dirt on top of me.

17 posted on 12/27/2013 10:08:19 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: raptor22

.. advocates of a gun-free America and a disarmed citizenry ..

want to disarm you.

Take away your security and your family’s too.

so they can feeeeel goood.

how touuuuching.


18 posted on 12/27/2013 10:31:30 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: raptor22

So, my fellow Americans, does this mean that you, or I, in defense of our home, or our person and loved ones outside the home, might be brought up on federal charges, for the ammunition we had in our possession BEFORE this cock-eyed, queer-devised ‘regulation’?????

Once again, I state for the record, I refuse!

Why? Ain’t nothing better for revolvers, than the bullet style made famous by Elmer Keith. The F.B.I. used them. The U.S. Treasury used them. The other side of that is how many city cops, in how many towns, from the ‘50’s forward, carried good old straight full wadcutters in thier Chiefs Specials, or their Detective Specials?

Lastly, “at knockout game range”, it was a simple round nose lead bullet, from a Colt Agent, that dispatched Lee Harvey Oswald, not a hollowpoint, not a frangible, or a red plastic filled bullet, just a round nose lead bullet.

Again, I refuse.


19 posted on 12/27/2013 10:34:05 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: Despot of the Delta

My ammo is lubricated with bacon grease & pesticide


20 posted on 12/27/2013 10:38:09 AM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: Ancient Man

man, im just going to switch to depleted uranium.


21 posted on 12/27/2013 10:41:42 AM PST by no-s (when democracy is displaced by tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote)
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To: raptor22
Go after the ammunition through regulations that stifle domestic production and force the use of more expensive and eco-friendly substitutes.

That policy will likely get us ALL killed.

Idiots.

5.56mm

22 posted on 12/27/2013 10:43:12 AM PST by M Kehoe
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Ancient Man
If so, the tires on every car in America will suddenly be out of balance.

They're already one step ahead of you. Lead wheel weights are nearly non existsnt any more. Zinc and steel cannot be used for bullet casting.
24 posted on 12/27/2013 10:55:27 AM PST by rickomatic
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To: Dead Corpse
They want us dead.

I know.

Why don’t we just return the favor?

Might have to.

Hope you are doing well.

5.56mm

25 posted on 12/27/2013 10:59:43 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: raptor22

Is recycling of existing ammo a way to get around the lack of new production?
Or steel bullets?


26 posted on 12/27/2013 11:02:42 AM PST by tbw2
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To: M Kehoe

Doing wonderful. I even found a way to convince my Wife to let me get a gym membership again. I’ll probably never hit any of my old PR’s again, but it’s nice to be getting back into some shape other than “round”.

I return the sentiment. I hope all is well in your world...

Your powder; buy it cheap, stack it deep, and keep it dry.


27 posted on 12/27/2013 11:15:25 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: tbw2

I’ve been tempted to pick up a Brown snd Sharpe 000 turning machine. Feed it a bunch of bronze with diameters in calibers I shoot.

Works for Barnes...


28 posted on 12/27/2013 11:17:40 AM PST by Dead Corpse (I will not comply.)
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To: raptor22

Going to skyrocket?

In the last few years a brick of 22s has gone from 12 to 14 dollars to 75 and above. What’s next a dollar a round 22s?

If you like ammo for your gun you can keep your ammo for your gun. Period! (if you can pay for it. Self defense for the rich and not the serfs)


29 posted on 12/27/2013 11:20:26 AM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah so shall it be again,")
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To: NormsRevenge

The only reason someone would seek to remove your ability to resist deadly force,

is that they foresee a time that they will be using deadly force to impose their will on you.


30 posted on 12/27/2013 11:22:04 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: raptor22

There is so much lead produced in Mexico it is ridiculous to think this will effect ammo prices.


31 posted on 12/27/2013 11:30:08 AM PST by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: raptor22

There are lead mines and smelters in both Canada and Mexico, and there are no restrictions on importing lead bars into the US.

A standard size is a 2” thick x 4” wide x 8”, 99% pure lead brick, which weighs 26.25/lbs. There are 7000 grains to a pound, and a round of .45 ACP US Army Ball FMJ weighs 230 grains. So you’re looking at about 30 rounds per pound of lead, so a single lead bar can give you about 800 rounds.


32 posted on 12/27/2013 11:49:40 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Last Obamacare Promise: "If You Like Your Eternal Soul, You Can Keep It.")
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To: Ancient Man

They are using non lead wheel weights in my area. They throw them in the bucket with the lead weights, screws up melting and casting.


33 posted on 12/27/2013 11:54:44 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Sooth2222

Don’t melt old car batteries, they mix stuff in that screws up the casting and is more toxic than the lead.

I’ve considered ordering bulk ingots and just storing them in the barn, not like they will spoil.


34 posted on 12/27/2013 11:58:03 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: tbw2

Steel bullets are illegal to the best of my knowledge.


35 posted on 12/27/2013 12:00:33 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

GUN CONTROL PING


36 posted on 12/27/2013 12:05:00 PM PST by raptor22 (Petty and vindictive do not be)
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To: raptor22

The next “American President” needs to repeal all EPA regulations issue since Jan. 2008.


37 posted on 12/27/2013 12:19:37 PM PST by G Larry
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To: Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; TChris; ...

GUN CONTROL PING


38 posted on 12/27/2013 1:42:02 PM PST by raptor22 (Petty and vindictive do not be)
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To: Carl Vehse
Don’t expect the RINOs or even the Tea Party in Congress to do a single thing about bringing Traitorobama and his EPA thugs of evil to justice. They have joined in benign complicity.

The term you are looking for is:
The Tao of Republican Orthodoxy

39 posted on 12/27/2013 10:13:01 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: C210N; basil
>Isn’t there a provision somewhere for a second American Revolution? >>
>>I don't know of a "provision"... but there are millions of "triggers" for one.

There is, in the Declaration:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

40 posted on 12/27/2013 10:17:01 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Thanks for the reminder.

Believe it or not, the public school I attended made it mandatory for every student to memorize that whole thing as they passed through the 8th grade.

I hadn’t tried to recite it in many a year, but as soon as I started reading it, it came back to me.

Thanks for posting it here as a reminder to all who read it.


41 posted on 12/28/2013 1:05:37 AM PST by basil (2ASisters.org)
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To: basil
To be fair, I didn't post the whole Declaration.
But it is kind of odd that they'd drop its memorization from being mandatory... unless you ascribe to the notion that "public education" isn't about education.

From John Gatto's How Public Education Cripples Our Kids, and Why:

  1. The adjustive or adaptive function.
    Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. This, of course, precludes critical judgment completely. It also pretty much destroys the idea that useful or interesting material should be taught, because you can't test for reflexive obedience until you know whether you can make kids learn, and do, foolish and boring things.
  2. The integrating function.
    This might well be called "the conformity function," because its intention is to make children as alike as possible. People who conform are predictable, and this is of great use to those who wish to harness and manipulate a large labor force.
  3. The diagnostic and directive function.
    School is meant to determine each student's proper social role. This is done by logging evidence mathematically and anecdotally on cumulative records. As in "your permanent record." Yes, you do have one.
  4. The differentiating function.
    Once their social role has been "diagnosed," children are to be sorted by role and trained only so far as their destination in the social machine merits - and not one step further. So much for making kids their personal best.
  5. The selective function.
    This refers not to human choice at all but to Darwin's theory of natural selection as applied to what he called "favored races." In short, the idea is to help things along by consciously attempting to improve the breeding stock. Schools are meant to tag the unfit - with poor grades, remedial placement, and other punishments - clearly enough that their peers will accept them as inferior and effectively bar them from the reproductive sweepstakes. That's what all those little humiliations from first grade onward were intended to do: wash the dirt down the drain.
  6. The propaedeutic function.
    The societal system implied by these rules will require an elite group of caretakers. To that end, a small fraction of the kids will quietly be taught how to manage this continuing project, how to watch over and control a population deliberately dumbed down and declawed in order that government might proceed unchallenged and corporations might never want for obedient labor.
Judging from society's reactions to Fast & Furious; NSA-spying; the existence of the TSA, the BATFE, and DEA; Benghazi; whimsical Obamacare changes; government agents literally exempting themselves from laws; and so forth... even if you don't believe the above you should pause and give it some thought.
42 posted on 12/28/2013 10:25:55 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: dangerdoc

What other materials could bullets be made out of if lead isn’t available?


43 posted on 12/28/2013 12:00:46 PM PST by tbw2
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To: G Larry

“The next “American President” needs to repeal all EPA regulations issue since Jan. 2008.”

The next “American President” needs to repeal all EPA regulations ever issued and abolish the EPA.

There, fixed it.


44 posted on 12/28/2013 12:23:29 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a Tea Party descendant...steeped in the Constitutional Republic given to us by the Founders)
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To: tbw2

Can or may?

You could copper clad just about any metal and fire it. Legally? It gets tricky and I am not fully familiar with the law, I’m pretty sure steel and bronze were made illegal, never mind I’ll just google it....

“Armor-piercing ammunition, sometimes referred to as metal-piercing ammunition, is ammunition that is designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, including body armor commonly worn by police officers. Under federal law, armor-piercing ammunition is defined as any projectile or projectile core that may be used in a handgun and that is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.15 In addition, armor-piercing ammunition is defined as a full jacketed projectile “larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” Id. The Attorney General is required to furnish information to each licensed dealer defining which projectiles are considered armor-piercing ammunition as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(17)(B).16”

Now that certainly cleared things up. :(


45 posted on 12/28/2013 3:47:35 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: raptor22

Abolish the EPA. Just get rid of it, lock, stock, and barrel.


46 posted on 12/28/2013 5:37:23 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Joe Brower
What a shame I can't pull up my post from so long ago...Can't take your guns, we'll control the Ammo

Some of us saw this coming over a decade ago.

47 posted on 12/29/2013 12:22:04 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: dangerdoc

Notice it only applies to handguns.


48 posted on 12/29/2013 12:23:31 PM PST by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36

Or ammo that can be used in handguns.

How many rifle calibers were chambered in the Contender handguns? I have a feeling that will come back to haunt people trying to develop alternative ammo.


49 posted on 12/29/2013 3:53:44 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: philman_36

Calibers available for the Contender were initially limited, stopping just short of the .308 Winchester-class rifle cartridges. However, almost any cartridge from .22 Long Rifle up to the .30-30 Winchester is acceptable, as long as a peak pressure of 48,000 CUP is not exceeded. This flexibility prompted a boom in the development of wildcat cartridges suitable for the Contender, such as the 7-30 Waters and .357 Herrett and the various TCU cartridges, most of which were commonly based on either the widely available .30-30 Winchester or .223 Remington cases. The largest factory caliber offered for the Contender was the .45-70, which, although a much larger case than the .308, is still feasible because of the relatively low cartridge pressures of the original black-powder round relative to the limits of the bolt face of the Contender receiver. Custom gunmakers also have added to the selection, such as the J. D. Jones line of JDJ cartridges based on the .225 Winchester and .444 Marlin. Other barrel makers pushed beyond the limits the factory set, and chambered Contender barrels in lighter .308-class cartridges like the .243 Winchester. The Contender can also fire .410 bore shotgun shells, either through the .45 Colt/.410 barrel or through a special 21-inch (530 mm) smoothbore shotgun barrel. A ported, rifled, .44 Magnum barrel was also made available for use with shotshell cartridges in a removable-choke .44 Magnum barrel, with the choke being used to unspin the shot from the barrel rifling, or, by removing the choke, for use with standard .44 Magnum cartridges. The degree of flexibility provided by the Contender design is unique for experimenting with new cartridges, handloads, barrel lengths, and shotshells.


50 posted on 12/29/2013 3:58:59 PM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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