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Military Retirement Cuts: Prelude To Coming Social Security Changes
Forbes ^ | 20 Dec 13 | Robert Laura

Posted on 12/28/2013 5:50:47 AM PST by SkyPilot

As someone who is constantly researching retirement, I find the recent funding cuts to military retirees very disheartening. Worse yet, I see this as a move to establish ground zero for the testing of changes to Social Security benefits.

On Wednesday, the Senate passed a bipartisan budget that scales back cost of living adjustments for working age military retirees starting in 2015. Several sources including Military.com suggests that qualified participants could lose between $3,700 and $6,200 per year, or an aggregate between $83,000 and $124,000 before they retire based on rank, age and years of service.

Despite some protests, a few web articles, and assorted angry Facebook posts from former military personnel, it’s pretty much a done deal. The message seems clear: if you’re young (under the age of 62) and capable there will be no perks for you.

Whether you support the decision or not, the rapid process by which these benefits were stripped and seemingly limited public and media anger, may just be setting the stage for related actions within the Social Security program. It’s well documented that the Social Security fund is set to go bust by 2033, with some experts suggesting it could happen sooner. Whether it’s ten, fifteen or even twenty years away, that insolvency date needs to change for the system to survive, and the logical and now accepted way to do it is on the backs of those who can, and already are paying into the system.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: military; paulryan; pension; socialsecurity
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"Similar to military retirees’ cuts, expect changes to Social Security to happen quickly, with politicians explaining the bad news in percentages and the good news in dollars and cents. For example, on the campaign trail, the candidate’s message to military families is that this is just a small, simple 1% cut for a few years. However, when touting their leadership in deficit cutting and spending reduction, it’s portrayed as part of an important two-year, trillion-dollar deal. No one, however, talks about how military families may have to earn and/or save an extra $308 a month for the next ten or fifteen years to make up for the reduction.

I believe the author of this article, Robert Laura, is dead on with this theory (i.e. some in Congress think that using the military cuts, it will pave the way for Social Security cuts). Particularly Paul Ryan.

I agree there is something very tangible about his theory, because the slashing of COLAs for our retired military and currently serving military makes almost no fiscal or political sense whatsoever. By cutting cost of living raises for all retired and future retired military, the government (that spends $10.46 Billion per day), "saves" $6 Billion over ten years.

Is is really worth it? This betrayal of our military (right before Christmas) has set off a political time bomb, and even the general public is outraged. Paul Ryan's reputation among pro-military and many Conservatives has plummeted. His Facebook page comments are a disaster. Comments to news articles are overwhelmingly negative. Letters to expressing outrage are pouring in. Anyone with a conscious realizes that cutting pensions for military retirees (while we are giving away hundreds of Billions in new spending to ObamaCare takers, illegals, and the rest) is pornographic.

Disabled military retirees are not even exempt from these cuts. A proposed "technical correction" that both parties are proposing in January won't help most of them either - they only want to exempt those who retired early for injury, or even for non-combat or non-duty related illness. VA rated disabled or our severely wounded veteran retirees are not even mentioned - their retirement pensions are still to be cut (that's another story.....Hagel and Ryan don't want to exempt them because they want even more cuts to VA disability - exempting them from pension cuts won't help in their quest to screw our military even more in the future).

So why do it?

I believe some in Washington think they can parlay these cuts into general Entitlement cuts, but there are problems with this proposal:

1. The Democrats in the House and Senate have no desire to reform Social Security; even when a chained CPI cost of living proposal was sent to Harry Reid during the Fiscal Cliff negotiations last year, Reid literally threw it in his Senate office fireplace (really)

2. Using our military (including combat disabled retirees) as a pawn in the Washington game of entitlements and spending is beyond wrong

3. The military retiree and currently serving men and women in uniform should be the last group targeted for spending cut - NOT THE FIRST.

1 posted on 12/28/2013 5:50:47 AM PST by SkyPilot
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Nice salute there Paul.


2 posted on 12/28/2013 5:52:08 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

E-mail I received earlier about an anti-veteran union leader:

This was on facebook and of course created a huge response. facebook keeps deleting the pic and information and posts of what she said about vets.

Pass it around, get it out there.

I saved the pic, here is a link to a screenshot uploaded to photobucket.

Despicable woman.

http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/mellycoo22/media/1530418_635905939800226_539785827_n_zps539185e9.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


3 posted on 12/28/2013 5:57:21 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: SkyPilot

What amazes me about this is that the same people who want to cut military pensions are pushing for a huge raise in the minimum wage.

Set the minimum wage increase on the cost of living increase and give them 1%.


4 posted on 12/28/2013 6:00:16 AM PST by Venturer (Half Staff the Flag of the US for Terrorists.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wow. The best I can say about her, probably shouldn’t be said. What a cold and empty beach! Send her out on a ship and never let her hear anything of her country again.


5 posted on 12/28/2013 6:02:25 AM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Nice.

What a beautiful human being.

6 posted on 12/28/2013 6:04:14 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Irenic; 2ndDivisionVet
Jan Vrotsos creates page to bash Military Vets/Disabled; Labels page Republican Family Values
7 posted on 12/28/2013 6:06:11 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

How many retirees are not paying attention to this news?

They will only notice when their check is smaller.

Notice this doesn’t kick in until after the next election.


8 posted on 12/28/2013 6:23:04 AM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: SkyPilot

Thank GOD for Paul Ryan


9 posted on 12/28/2013 6:23:08 AM PST by babble-on
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To: SkyPilot
these are the jerks that passed the bill to take money away from our troops..and don't forget the Muslim he wants it passed most of all..I guess to pay for his group vacations..REMEMBER THESE NAMES IN November.
10 posted on 12/28/2013 6:28:29 AM PST by PLD
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To: SkyPilot

She is a miserable old hag..she will be the one who dies a miserable death..


11 posted on 12/28/2013 6:31:39 AM PST by PLD
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To: SkyPilot

12 posted on 12/28/2013 6:39:13 AM PST by PLD
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To: PLD

As a legacy military family, this piece of filth needs to find out what sacrifice is. As far as useless, what’s more useless than some welfare skank with her daddy less kids. I don’t see them taking ANYTHING away from them.


13 posted on 12/28/2013 6:45:59 AM PST by Himyar
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To: SkyPilot
Imho, Jan Vrotsos is an ignorant, and ungrateful pos.

5.56mm

14 posted on 12/28/2013 6:46:22 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: babble-on
Thank GOD for Paul Ryan

Letter slamming Paul Ryan over cut to military retirement benefits goes viral


15 posted on 12/28/2013 6:46:33 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: PLD
He kind of speaks for me here.


16 posted on 12/28/2013 6:49:34 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

I’ve told every young person that I have been asked, NO. Do not go into the military. You are only going to be screwed and used and abused and tossed aside. It has taken me TWENTY ONE YEARS (21) TO WIN MY FIGHT WITH THE VA. I only just now, in my 60’s won and got my disability on FIVE surgeries that I have had in the past 6 years because of damages to my body in the military. Only now have I received what I should have been receiving for 21 years. At least from here to death (or Rapture of the Church) I will get something for the pain, suffering and disabilities of my damaged body. I tell these kids that IF they just have to go in, to go in for 3 years, learn a skill they can sell outside and GET OUT!!! NO FULL MILITARY CAREER. GET OUT. THEY WILL LIE TO YOU, SCREW YOU AND YOU WILL IN THE END GET BARELY ANYTHING THE LYING GOVERNMENT AND PENTAGON SAYS YOU WILL GET AFTER YOUR RETIRE!!! Tell all your young family members and friends this!!!


17 posted on 12/28/2013 6:51:28 AM PST by RetiredArmy (I am proud to be a Christian and follower of my Lord Jesus Christ. Time is short for U to know Him!)
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To: RetiredArmy
It has taken me TWENTY ONE YEARS (21) TO WIN MY FIGHT WITH THE VA

Good for you. Unfortunately, your story is typical.

Thanks for your service, and I believe I speak for all your fellow brothers and sisters in arms when I say that it should never, ever have taken this long for the Federal government to recognize your injuries. Not in an age where people can walk to a booth in the street and walk away with 15 ObamaPhones in the pockets. Not in an age where illegal immigrants can bilk the taxpayers out of $4.2 Billion in child tax credits (each year) that they are not entitled to. Not in an age where 49 Million Americans walk around with plastic EBT SNAP cards they get reloaded with cash - each month.

At least you are in your 60s and are exempt from the cost of living cuts to your regular retirement pension. Again - good for you.

Do me a favor. Say a prayer for all the disabled retirees who suffered combat and service related injuries who are also VA disabled, but are not exempt from these pension cuts. Even with the "fix" that Ryan-Murray are attempting to snake oil peddle to the American people, those disabled warriors who were not medically retired early are not exempt.

Pray to God that His hand protects those veterans, those currently serving, and all military retirees from these Washington DC traitors.


18 posted on 12/28/2013 7:01:10 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

Maybe they will cut the COLA to the social security recipients. They’ll just give them a bonus check. That’s what they did the last time we had a “shared sacrifice”. The military took the cut and the social security recipients took the checks.
The purpose of the Democrat party is to elect thieves into office so they can loot the public treasuries.


19 posted on 12/28/2013 7:03:53 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SkyPilot

I never did drugs and could not and still cannot stand the taste of liquor..but we all sin every day and need forgiveness for a sin..so I go to God and ask..I don’t do many sins just when I get angry and wise someone bad and that is often..LOL


20 posted on 12/28/2013 7:12:14 AM PST by PLD
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To: SkyPilot

“Democrat-Mass.”

Says all you need to know.


21 posted on 12/28/2013 7:16:37 AM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Himyar

We are retired military.

Scum like this will meet their maker the devil one day and then cry for God forgivness..until then she will keep spouting her hate..and remain a lonely old cow...


22 posted on 12/28/2013 7:18:20 AM PST by PLD
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To: SkyPilot
...cost of living adjustments for working age military retirees starting in 2015

Key words: Working Age

Why should healthy veterans who retire in their early 40s believe that getting a check with generous COLAs for the next 40 years is healthy for the country?

This article that uses a figure of $3700 'loss' in one year, based on a 1% lower COLA has to be doing math that multiplies 3700 by 100 equalling 370000.

Please tell me what retiree gets $370,000 a year in retirement checks.

If a Forbes writer and his editor cannot do math what hope is there for any opinion in that magazine.

23 posted on 12/28/2013 7:23:11 AM PST by maica (We are seeing an interesting mixture of malice and incompetence at healthcare.gov)
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To: SkyPilot

Government benefits of every stripe are going to be cut. It is unavoidable.

The only way we can pay every check recipient everything they think they are owed or entitled to in the future is to have a vibrant private sector that is prosperous enough to afford to pay for it all cheerfully.

We do not have that. So we will have squabbling between check recipients over who deserves a check before the other, or who gets cut or who doesn’t.

The fact is that without a vibrant and prosperous private sector, nobody gets paid their government checks. Nobody.

How do we rebuild a vibrant and prosperous private sector economy so everybody can get what they think they are owed?


24 posted on 12/28/2013 7:34:13 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: SkyPilot

What is the typical military pension for the non-disabled?
And what is the typical military payment to the disabled vets?


25 posted on 12/28/2013 7:37:31 AM PST by tbw2
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To: SkyPilot

What were you saying about running for the Presidency Mr. Ryan!!!!!!!


26 posted on 12/28/2013 8:08:00 AM PST by ontap
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To: RFEngineer

Our veterans have protected us, and we as a country need to protect them and preserve their well-deserved benefits.

Every American should be offended by the underhanded backroom deals and sacrificial treatment that our so-called representatives are deviously plotting against our veterans. They are in effect shooting them in the back. What kind of country treats its defenders and heros like this?


27 posted on 12/28/2013 8:12:53 AM PST by Starboard
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To: RFEngineer
How do we rebuild a vibrant and prosperous private sector economy so everybody can get what they think they are owed?

Offshoring our industrial base to China and the turd world IS NOT a way to do it.

28 posted on 12/28/2013 8:15:09 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: tbw2

What is the typical military pension for the non-disabled?
And what is the typical military payment to the disabled vets?

*************
Whatever it is it pails in comparison to the wasteful, redundant, and corrupt spending that goes on in Washington. The real problem is the sheer size of government, not what it costs to support our veterans. That cost is trivial in the overall scheme of things.


29 posted on 12/28/2013 8:17:21 AM PST by Starboard
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To: SkyPilot

Clinton took The Cold War Peace Dividend back in the 90s. Where is our War On Poverty Peace Dividend? The Democrats promise their loyal voters the moon and then run the country into the dirt. If anyone is serious about solving the problems, then the first thing to do is examine all the rules, regulations and laws in this country. We need to stop putting a straitjacket on American business. Turn them loose. Private sector jobs CREATE tax money. Government jobs CONSUME tax money.


30 posted on 12/28/2013 8:17:38 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: central_va

How do we rebuild a vibrant and prosperous private sector economy

***********
Step #1: Shrink the size and functions of government.

Step #2: Repeat step #1.


31 posted on 12/28/2013 8:20:22 AM PST by Starboard
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To: maica
Why should healthy veterans who retire in their early 40s believe that getting a check with generous COLAs for the next 40 years is healthy for the country?

Maybe because they signed a contract with the federal government. A veteran who has served the last 20 yrs. has been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan numerous times. While deployed he or she is on duty 24/7. While deployed they risk life and limb and do so with a minimum of complaining. Who is more deserving of a pension.....a military retiree or the run of the mill government employee who not only risks nothing but receives a much larger pension than a veteran in the equivocal position!!!

32 posted on 12/28/2013 8:23:47 AM PST by ontap
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To: Starboard

Step #1: Shrink the size and functions of government.

Step #2: Increase import tariffs and decrease/eliminate income taxes


33 posted on 12/28/2013 8:25:49 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: SkyPilot

Conservatives complain the poor have too many benefits and then they turn around and complain veterans’ benefits should not be cut.

Its not a case of principles but defending your favorite constituency’s entitlement. Every one it seems, has one they want to keep. That’s why we can’t get a handle on runaway spending.

Keep off your hands my benefits - take away the other fellow’s. That’s an attitude that not going to make our current social safety net solvent for future generations and truly help those in need.

We need to have a debate on how much sacrifice is acceptable. When the bread and circuses come to an end, what happens to the stability of the country? And those most mad at Paul Ryan are not offering any alternatives on how they would reform the system that keeps Washington in the red year after year.


34 posted on 12/28/2013 8:47:19 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: SkyPilot

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again.

Military retirement is not about fairness, it is about retention.

Retention means you keep people who would otherwise go off and do their own thing, like making a career, earning their fortune—or not, and just being a civilian.

The military values and needs mid-rank officers and NCOs. If they cannot be retained then you wind up with a force that cannot make a good decision and you ultimately lose wars and wind up with a lot of people killed. How much does THAT cost the USA?

It’s insurance. Sure, you could save a lot of money by cancelling all your insurance policies, but what will you do when events occur (and they ALWAYS do)?

At some point, this will hurt the military—and our nation—as it will be much harder to retain those people they really need, and frankly, it is those people who are the primary reason why our nation’s military is number 1 in the world.

We can lose efficiency very, very quickly, too. All it takes is 5 percent a year drop in reenlistments and you’re back to late 1970’s era hollow military. A US military that, in measuring effectiveness in NATO exercises, for example, that ranks bellow Belgium and Denmark! I was in then. I remember at Fort Carson, Colorado (around 1978) they had a battalion of child molesters, rapists and other sociopaths that they were trying to rehab rather than let go because the Army couldn’t afford to lose any more NCOs.

It bothers me that in all the discourse on this issue no one—here or elsewhere—is looking at the costs from a retention standpoint.


35 posted on 12/28/2013 8:50:53 AM PST by Alas Babylon!
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To: SkyPilot
1. The Democrats in the House and Senate have no desire to reform Social Security;

They don't want to cut a thing and live in la-la land of violating the Accounting Equation with a Printing Press. Remember when who was it Hank Paulson under GWB wanted to buy Real T-Bills and not the funny money IOU's in SSI and he got heck for it? And how about GWB attempting real SSI reform and nothing was done and he got eviscerated for it. In the grand scheme of things he was right and it is what 8 years later and nothing has been done?

We all know SSI, M-care, M-caid are insolvent models, what they don't get it the Tea Party is in fact a screed for them to treat us like adults, sit down and have the conversation that changes are needed, they will hurt and they are too dysfunctional to do so....

36 posted on 12/28/2013 8:52:01 AM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: central_va
central_va said: "Step #2: Increase import tariffs ..."

Don't you think "import tariffs" are a form of welfare for businesses that otherwise would not be profitable? Such tariffs might make sense to punish other countries who are exploiting their people, for example. As a crutch to create employment opportunities at home I think this is a dangerous economic drug which will support an ever-growing addiction.

37 posted on 12/28/2013 10:46:48 AM PST by William Tell
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To: Starboard

“Every American should be offended by the underhanded backroom deals and sacrificial treatment that our so-called representatives are deviously plotting against our veterans. They are in effect shooting them in the back. What kind of country treats its defenders and heros like this?”

Every American ought to be offended by a lot more than that.

“we as a country need to protect them and preserve their well-deserved benefits.”

We need to first protect Americans against an ever encroaching government (remember, the military is a part of that problem, too) so that prosperity can return to the country as a result of citizens enjoying their freedoms and ability to succeed or fail as a result of their own hard work and good or bad fortune.

Military benefits, and every other government activity is secondary to that. The Constitution says so.

If America is not vibrant, growing, and innovative, there is no money for benefits, or increased benefits for anyone, I don’t care who you are or why you think you deserve a government check.

If we have prosperity, private sector taxpayers can pay for it all.

If we don’t have private sector prosperity, we can only afford a small fraction of it - and everybody complains about everyone elses check.


38 posted on 12/28/2013 10:51:48 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Alas Babylon!

“it is those people who are the primary reason why our nation’s military is number 1 in the world.”

No. It is freedom-loving Americans who prosper, pay a fair level of taxes that pay for everything that is the primary reason we can pay for a military that is number 1 in the world.


39 posted on 12/28/2013 10:55:44 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Old Sarge

Want to get PO’ed?


40 posted on 12/28/2013 11:00:25 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (The Second Amendment is NOT about the right to hunt. It IS a right to shoot tyrants.)
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To: central_va

“Offshoring our industrial base to China and the turd world IS NOT a way to do it.”

Absolute agreement on your point.


41 posted on 12/28/2013 11:00:42 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: SkyPilot

It’s the Fall of the Roman Empire all over again.
Cut the military, grow the Bread and Circus.

It’s ‘interesting’ to be present and see it happening. I always had the impression that the Romans didn’t know what they were doing then but it’s obvious that like us they knew and couldn’t stop themselves. The maintenance of the establishment is conflated with the maintenance of the state by the leaders and the populace is glued in front of their establishment subsidized TVs eating their SNAP-bought cookies and drinking their SNAP-bought sodas.

Yeah, I’m old enough and have seen it coming so long it’s merely ‘interesting’ to me.


42 posted on 12/28/2013 11:02:16 AM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Tell me that your post (3) was not real. I can not believe that there are really people that heartless.


43 posted on 12/28/2013 11:08:19 AM PST by Irish Eyes
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To: goldstategop

Gee I don’t know gold, maybe we can look into the tons of fraud and abuse? I think that would be a great start.

I find myself having a strong reaction to your post, and yet I’m on my way for the day and can’t write out my retort to your gross over simplification of these matters.


44 posted on 12/28/2013 11:15:31 AM PST by AllAmericanGirl44 (Wishing all a very Merry Christmas)
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To: babble-on

“Thank GOD for Paul Ryan”

Yeah, if you think the US is so ainful and corrupt it should be destroyed and the lssons from it’s failure be impressed aupon the rest of the world then he is truly doing God’s work.

I don’t take that view but it is certainly valid.


45 posted on 12/28/2013 11:16:19 AM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: ontap

Who is more deserving of a pension.....a military retiree or the run of the mill government employee who not only risks nothing but receives a much larger pension than a veteran in the equivocal position!!!

******

Separate issue! I’d like to see all government-worker pensions scaled back and have all employees paid by taxpayers have to provide for their own retirement in much larger amounts than is currently allowed. Why shouldn’t they have to put their own money into IRAs, etc?


46 posted on 12/28/2013 12:21:57 PM PST by maica (We are seeing an interesting mixture of malice and incompetence at healthcare.gov)
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To: SkyPilot; LucyT
So, she believes her father was worthless? It looks like her wish was granted...

VROTSOS, Melvin J., of Arlington, formerly of Cambridge, April 1, 2013. Beloved husband of Jean (MacDonald) Vrotsos. Loving father of James, and his wife Maryann; Gary, and his wife Lynda; daughter, Janet; and the late Robert Vrotsos. Brother of the late James, Andrew and Kosta Vrotsos, Georgia Stathopoulos and Bertha Zaharris. Also survived by 2 grandchildren, Gary S. and Holly J. Vrotsos both of Arlington. Funeral from the Keefe Funeral Home, 2175 Mass Ave., NO. CAMBRIDGE on Thursday at 10 am. Funeral Mass in St. John’s Church at 11:30 am. Burial in Mt. Auburn Cemetery. Relatives and friends invited. Visiting hours Thursday morning 10-11 am. In lieu of flowers donations may be made to the American Heart Assoc., P.O. Box 417005, Boston, MA 02241-7005. Late WWII Army Veteran.

Melvin Vrotsos, "United States World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946"
Enlisted: 05 Dec 1942
47 posted on 12/28/2013 1:34:20 PM PST by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: SkyPilot

I always say a prayer for all miltary folks, disabled or not. For I are one of those disabled ones.


48 posted on 12/28/2013 2:02:04 PM PST by RetiredArmy (I am proud to be a Christian and follower of my Lord Jesus Christ. Time is short for U to know Him!)
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To: Irish Eyes

No, it seems real.


49 posted on 12/28/2013 2:07:50 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: SkyPilot

meanwhile $1.5 billion goes to Somalia


50 posted on 12/28/2013 2:12:00 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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