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Jahi McMath: Terri Schiavo group secretly leading transfer efforts
Contra Costa Times ^ | 31 Dec 13 | Matthias Gafni

Posted on 01/01/2014 8:51:34 AM PST by Drew68

The last hope for Jahi McMath to be kept on a ventilator may come from a former Long Island hairdresser who runs a brain-injury treatment center dedicated to Terri Schiavo, the Florida woman whose case sparked a fierce nationwide end-of-life debate.

(Excerpt) Read more at contracostatimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: jahimcmath; prolife; terrislist; terrisping
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Here's the latest on this increasingly bizarre and macabre story. Excerpted as required by the Contra Costa Times.
1 posted on 01/01/2014 8:51:34 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Terry was in a persistent vegetative state. This poor child has been prounounced deceased. The parents should shut of the ventilator and let her loose.
Freegards
LEX


2 posted on 01/01/2014 8:56:27 AM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: Drew68
Jahi McMath isn't there anymore...

It is an organism shaped like a previous person
Being kept alive by the unnecessary efforts of many

I've seen this all too many times...

3 posted on 01/01/2014 8:57:11 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Drew68

I’m not sure this passes the smell test...


4 posted on 01/01/2014 8:59:43 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: lexington minuteman 1775
Terry was in a persistent vegetative state. This poor child has been prounounced deceased. The parents should shut of the ventilator and let her loose.

I agree.

I'm curious where the funding for her care will come from. I'm pretty sure medicaid does not pay for the care of dead people.

5 posted on 01/01/2014 9:00:23 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

The local news here said a pediatrician said that she was responsive and the family says she responds to their voices. Now I don’t know about the credibility of the family but a pediatrician is an MD and should know what they’re talking about.

I feel for the family, they must think that as long as she has a pulse and they see her chest rise and fall, she’s still alive.

I’m holding out hope for a miracle.

Is the hospital wanting her organs?


6 posted on 01/01/2014 9:03:31 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: Drew68

I belong to the school of thought that the family is torturing a corpse. Brain dead is brain dead. Prayers for all involved.


7 posted on 01/01/2014 9:03:41 AM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Lx
Now I don’t know about the credibility of the family but a pediatrician is an MD and should know what they’re talking about.

Dr. Paul A. Byrne, neonatologist, pediatrician, President Life Guardian Foundation, has not actually examined McMath.

8 posted on 01/01/2014 9:09:48 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Venturing into landmine territory ..... what is going on here is not for Jahi, but for her shell-shocked, grief stricken family whose child had what has become a fairly common, routine procedure that went terribly wrong. They have not and cannot come to grips with it ..... yet. How they eventually do this remains to be seen ... right now, they are desperate not to accept what has happened.

From personal experience over the last couple of years and an ongoing situation, I have come to recognize the significant difference between “quantity” of life and “quality” of life. My personal belief is that, at some point (each defines his own ‘point’), you let nature take its course ..... no one escapes death. For those who have no faith and for whom death is a bottomless black pit, this is terribly hard. For those with faith, who believe our loved one is going to heaven to forever be in the presence of God’s love, we struggle with our human emotions and not wanting to lose the earthly presence, but we are ultimately at peace with the assurance we are not forever parted from our loved one. I pray for Jahi’s parents to find peace.


9 posted on 01/01/2014 9:11:26 AM PST by MissMagnolia (You see, truth always resides wherever brave men still have ammunition. I pick truth. (John Ransom))
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To: Lx
The local news here said a pediatrician
said that she was responsive

Generally, and in my experience...
One of the examining MD’s should be
a Neurologist or Neurosurgeon as they have an elevated awareness of how to assess CNS function in the presence of mechanical supports.

1) No evidence of drug induced coma, hypothermia, or other reversable cause of coma.

2) No evidence of Cortical, Sub-cortical, or Brain stem activity by expert exam.

3) No spontaneous respiratory activity, in the absence of metabolic parameters that inhibit Brain stem activity.

10 posted on 01/01/2014 9:12:13 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Drew68

Jahi McMath’s parents carry on this way because they are looney plus they want maximum publicity exposure for a lawsuit down the road. This hospital is scared as heck at being called racist.

The hospital seems blameless to me. It was a simple operation that went wrong. This happens but the family sees a chance to cash in.


11 posted on 01/01/2014 9:13:43 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: HangnJudge

3 doctors have said she is brain dead. 2 from the hospital and we can give latitude to those that say they MIGHT have a conflict. The third and INDEPENDENT Dr.Paul Graham Fisher, a pediatric neuro-oncologist at Stanford School of Medicine, backs their assessments.


12 posted on 01/01/2014 9:20:46 AM PST by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Drew68

My understanding is she has been declared by at least 3 MD’s. This pediatician is somebody the family brought in. According to Calif law she is DEAD.
I agree this is either super denial or just the beginning of a huge lawsuit.
Freegards
LEX


13 posted on 01/01/2014 9:23:50 AM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: Drango
pediatric neuro-oncologist

This is sufficient...

14 posted on 01/01/2014 9:24:58 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Drango

This is a difficult case without knowing specific medical details it really isn’t possible to make a judgment.

If ( and a big if) as the family says she is making movements of any kind than this is a sign of brain activity. My initial feeling ( as someone who is medically trained) is to agree that she is most likely brain dead and support should be withdrawn. However reports by the family of movement is disturbing especially given reports that it wasn’t necessarily the complication of the surgery that caused her cardiac arrest but an extreme delay in recognizing that a complication ( bleeding) had occurred. This makes the hospital appear less than trustworthy in this case.

I too wonder about the standards for brain death and the qualifications of those making the determination. I remember a few months back a news story about a neurosurgeon who was declared brain dead who did come out of a coma and had quite a lot to say about it.


15 posted on 01/01/2014 9:26:01 AM PST by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: Drew68

Terry Schiavo was much different. Her folks and family were very humble and just wanted to take her home to be cared for by them. This girl Jai is dead (in some ways) and her folks never talk about bringing her home. They talk about running up huge bills at some kind of care facility. Bills they will not be paying. I doubt they are paying jack right now....all they do is run their mouths while the hospital is providing care it knows it will never be re-reimbursed for. Hospital keeps it mouth shut for racial reasons


16 posted on 01/01/2014 9:26:06 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw
what bothers me is that the kid was supposed to be quiet after the surgery. Family says she was sitting up, talking, laughing...sucking on a popsicle.

Someone mentioned ice chips only at first...and that's what I remember.

Sucking on a popsicle?? Remember when you had your molars pulled at the dentist...and he said...no sucking...

17 posted on 01/01/2014 9:26:33 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: longfellowsmuse

—she is making movements of any kind
—than this is a sign of brain activity

Not quite true
Spinal cord reflex movements are sometimes preserved
in “Brain Death”


18 posted on 01/01/2014 9:29:10 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Sacajaweau

we shall see.
Meanwhile here is a good comment from the UK Daily Mail>>>

Having worked in insurance authorizations I would almost bet the insurance co stopped paying for her care the day she was declared brain dead bc daily updates have to be done. And rightfully so. I usually hate insurance companies like everyone else but their obligation is done as is the hospital’s. The hospital and everyone who in turn goes there after is paying for her. This family has been delusional from the beginning when they claimed all they wanted was a chance at a Christmas miracle to come home. Guess what. We are at Jan 1 2014. Then they said all they wanted was another doctor to look at her and declare not brain dead. That doctor said “Yup. Brain dead”. I called it then that they’d keep on and on. People always think God will give you what you ask. God teaches us lessons and it’s not what we demand. I hope the judge finally ends this. Give the child some peace and dignity. She...is...DEAD. She’s not in a coma. She’s dead. As unfortunate as it is there’s no changing it.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532029/Mother-Jahi-McMath-accuses-hospital-inhumane-treatment-alleges-stopped-feeding-girl-refer-teen-body.html#ixzz2pAX2AW9p


19 posted on 01/01/2014 9:29:32 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw
Terry Schiavo was much different.

Yes, she was and it is troubling that people have politicized the issue in trying to compare the two. It actually does a disservice to Schaivo's story in that people who weren't really educated about Schaivo's condition are now led to believe that she must've been brain dead as well.

20 posted on 01/01/2014 9:42:55 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Schaivo = Schiavo. I should at least spell her name right.


21 posted on 01/01/2014 9:44:38 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

Mother of brain-dead Jahi McMath claims ‘inhumane’ hospital staff have stopped feeding her girl, 13, and now coldly refer to her as ‘the body’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532029/Mother-Jahi-McMath-accuses-hospital-inhumane-treatment-alleges-stopped-feeding-girl-refer-teen-body.html

‘To watch my daughter just sit there and not have food ... I’m just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good,’ Latasha Winkfield said today.

‘I tell her every day, ‘Jahi, you losin’ weight girl, but you still look good.’ I just think it’s inhumane to not feed my child, to not refer to her by her name, and stop us in our tracks.’

‘Performing medical procedures on the body of a deceased human being is simply not something Children’s Hospital can do or ask its staff to assist in doing,’ he said.

Monday by a hospital spokesman.

He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi’s heart beating with a tracheal tube — surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.

Straus, the hospital’s lawyer, reiterated in his letter that the hospital would release the girl’s body as soon as her family provided a detailed plan outlining how the move would be accomplished and written permission from the coroner. But he said neither has been submitted.

‘No facility has stated, unconditionally or otherwise, that it is prepared to immediately accept Jahi’s body,’ he wrote.


22 posted on 01/01/2014 10:00:53 AM PST by kcvl
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To: Drew68

Also this family is intoxicated by their 15 minutes of fame of being part of the daily media merry-go-round. It goes to peoples heads. This is like one big Montel Williams show that is only featuring them and Jai


23 posted on 01/01/2014 10:04:45 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Drew68

Its inhumane to rush to kill a sick patient.

The parents are quite right to want to remove their child from the hospital that put her in this condition. Her parents are right to not trust its diagnosis.


24 posted on 01/01/2014 10:10:16 AM PST by RginTN
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To: RginTN

Her parents cannot keep her in a permanent brain-dead state.


25 posted on 01/01/2014 10:15:07 AM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

“Terry was in a persistent vegetative state.”

Not. at. all.

In no way.

Decidedly not.

Your statement, however well-intentioned, is mistaken.


26 posted on 01/01/2014 10:17:06 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: longfellowsmuse

“I remember a few months back a news story about a neurosurgeon who was declared brain dead who did come out of a coma and had quite a lot to say about it.”

There have been a number of similar cases.


27 posted on 01/01/2014 10:19:48 AM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

I agree. The poor child is dead. Time to let her go, bury her, and grieve.


28 posted on 01/01/2014 10:21:02 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (From time to time the.tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.)
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To: eyedigress

Yes actually they can. If they want to be with their daughter let them.

Btw, unborn children aren’t considered alive as well...abortion must ok then too right?


29 posted on 01/01/2014 10:25:04 AM PST by RginTN
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To: HangnJudge

I would trust Ben Carson to give another opinion. The Media lied about Terri Schiavo’s situation, and I will never trust them again to tell the truth when it comes to state-sponsored Euthanasia. All the doctors had to do was get this child on a ventilator & g-tube for nutrition and transfer her to a long-term facility — why railroad her death unless it is to harvest her organs ?


30 posted on 01/01/2014 10:27:29 AM PST by Sioux-san
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To: RginTN

The parents were quite wrong to have their daughter undergo a surgery for a problem that could have been fixed by them: Healthy eating and exercise.


31 posted on 01/01/2014 10:31:15 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: dennisw

as one who works in the health field: well said AND nursing homes can not “pull the plug”; most have policies against this. if she survives after ventilator removed then we have another issue.


32 posted on 01/01/2014 10:32:24 AM PST by SeektheTruth54
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To: RginTN

Unborn children have brain activity, this child does not. Her brain is in the process of decomposing, and it will soon liquify and drain out of her nose. Horrific but true. Your example is pathetic at best.


33 posted on 01/01/2014 10:33:43 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Sacajaweau

If that is all true, that the child was doing things she wasn’t supposed to be doing during her recovery, WHERE WERE THE NURSES??? They and the surgeon were the ones who should have made sure the family knew what was expected - I would have thrown them all out if they were contributing to Jai’s situation.


34 posted on 01/01/2014 10:36:27 AM PST by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san
I will never trust them again to tell the truth
when it comes to state-sponsored Euthanasia.

Brain Death is a different situation.

See post #12

The third and INDEPENDENT Dr.Paul Graham Fisher, a pediatric neuro-oncologist at Stanford School of Medicine, backs their assessments.

I have been involved in 100’s of these determinations
It is Bluntly Obvious to one with trained eyes when
the Brain is irrevocably nonfunctional.

All I needed to know was that an
Academic Pediatric Neuro-oncologist had confirmed it.
Any Board Certified Neurologist or Neurosurgeon would
understand the complexity of thought that goes into this...

35 posted on 01/01/2014 10:39:18 AM PST by HangnJudge
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Good afternoon. I hope you are doing well.

Time to let her go, bury her, and grieve.

The grieving will be the hard part, until the hospital and doctors higher the lawyers to litigate a malpractice suit.

It's going to be rough for this family I am sorry to say.

5.56mm

36 posted on 01/01/2014 10:40:58 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: M Kehoe
"Hirer." Sheesh.

5.56mm

37 posted on 01/01/2014 10:42:18 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: Drew68

She didn’t simply have her tonsils removed. Jahi underwent three surgical procedures for the treatment of her sleep apnea. This included a tonsillectomy, a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (UPPP), and removal of nasal turbinates. I’ve read the UPPP surgery is particularly risky and is known to cause a lot of bleeding out.

I think these are the facts that need to come out. People are blaming the hospital 100% because all they hear is “ routine procedure “ when it really wasn’t. The parents knew the risks. Personally, I think it would’ve been a lot less risky to put that girl on a diet. Sleep apnea can be brought on by weight gain, and if a person always had it, being overweight certainly doesn’t make it any better. My husband had borderline sleep apnea, diagnosed after a sleep study. He lost 20 pounds, its barely nonexistent now.

Now, despite any of that, I believe it should be up to the family and not the hospital to pull the plug.


38 posted on 01/01/2014 10:42:20 AM PST by jodster36
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To: Sioux-san
Medical personnel cannot be present in the room around the clock. Did the family continue to indulge this child during the recovery regardless of the protocol that was made clear to them? This poor soul's condition could have easily been fixed if the parents had not let her get obese (but then again look at mom), or if they had switched to a healthier lifestyle so that she could lose weight. Instead they elected a quick fix: surgery. Unfortunately, and I truly can't imagine losing one of my babies, there is always a risk with surgery. Unless the docs screwed something up then this family is completely delusional and/or loves the attention.
39 posted on 01/01/2014 10:43:44 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: jodster36

” and removal of nasal turbinates. I’ve read the UPPP surgery is particularly risky and is known to cause a lot of bleeding out.”

I can personally attest to this. I had mine drilled 15 years ago and was warned about this in advance. I was still surprised.


40 posted on 01/01/2014 10:52:12 AM PST by Clay Moore ("In politics, stupidity is not a handicap." Napoleon Bonaparte)
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To: longfellowsmuse
I remember a few months back a news story about a neurosurgeon who was declared brain dead who did come out of a coma and had quite a lot to say about it.

This neurosurgeon, Dr. Ebel Alexander, went on to write a best selling book about his near-death experience.

The problem though is that he was never clinically declared brain dead. Parts of his brain shut down following a meningitis-induced coma. He was in a coma but his brain was still receiving oxygen. Jehi McMath's brain is not receiving oxygen and is by now most likely highly decomposed.

There have been several people in other countries who revived after being declared brain dead. It is argued that in these countries, where the laws governing organ donations are far more proactive, the criteria for establishing brain death is different from those in the United States.

Of course, doctors are human and make human mistakes and there are cases of people returning after being erroneously declared brain dead. They survived only because they weren't really brain dead in the first place.

It's reasonable to say that after three weeks of no brain activity whatsoever, this is not the case with Jahi McMath.

41 posted on 01/01/2014 10:56:07 AM PST by Drew68
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To: jodster36
Now, despite any of that, I believe it should be up to the family and not the hospital to pull the plug.

And for how long should the hospital keep Jahi hooked up, at a rough cost of $10,000/day, to a machine that could otherwise be used to save someone else's life?

42 posted on 01/01/2014 10:58:42 AM PST by Drew68
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To: goodwithagun

If you know that Jahi was eating a popsicle and sitting up laughing with her family, etc., then why didn’t a nurse?


43 posted on 01/01/2014 11:03:19 AM PST by Sioux-san
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To: Drew68
I could see that hospital refusing to treat her anymore. What I can't see is why the parents aren't allowed to find a facility willing to take this young girl or being allowed to take their daughter home.

Disconnecting life support is one thing. Forcing the girl to stay in that hospital violates the parents' rights. Wasn't that actually what the issue came down to in the Terry Schiavo outrage?

44 posted on 01/01/2014 11:05:25 AM PST by grania
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To: RginTN

You paying for that permanent state of brain-dead existence?

I didn’t think so. Let her go home.

Why you think abortion is involved is ridiculous. Grow-up


45 posted on 01/01/2014 11:05:58 AM PST by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: dennisw

IIRC, Terry was not on a ventilator.


46 posted on 01/01/2014 11:07:35 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: grania
Disconnecting life support is one thing. Forcing the girl to stay in that hospital violates the parents' rights. Wasn't that actually what the issue came down to in the Terry Schiavo outrage?

They're not trying to take the girl home. They want her admitted to a long-term care facility. Until now they haven't been able to find one. They are also being asked to by hospital to provide, in writing, a plan for the continued care of Jehi. They have not done so. Perhaps now they can. Also at issue is the insertion of a feeding tube. Doctors at her current hospital will not perform surgery on a dead person, as Jehi has been legally declared.

In Schiavo's case, her husband was her primary next of kin and legally allowed to make medical decisions on her behalf. He made the argument that Terri would not have wanted to continue living in her condition and that prolonged life support should end. He was challenged by her family in a very acrimonious and public battle but he ultimately prevailed in the courts.

47 posted on 01/01/2014 11:26:00 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68
Dr. Paul A. Byrne, neonatologist, pediatrician, President Life Guardian Foundation, has not actually examined McMath.

Really? The news report I saw said the pediatrician said that she was not brain dead. If he hasn't examined her, what is he basing his opinion on? While I'm sure there are ways to video conference the patient and look at the records yet the report made it sound like he examined her at the hospital.

I feel bad for the family, the Doctors tell you the surgery is no big deal and then she ends up possibly brain dead? People need to know that any surgery is dangerous and there is an element of risk and it sounds like this was voluntary surgery, not a life threatening problem.

48 posted on 01/01/2014 11:38:21 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: Lx

“Is the hospital wanting her organs?”

Maybe, but the black-robed serial murderers in Pinellas County, Florida, are finding it harder and harder to resist the urge to strike again.


49 posted on 01/01/2014 11:57:23 AM PST by DPMD
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To: goodwithagun

A tonsillectomy to relieve sleep apnea?


50 posted on 01/01/2014 12:02:24 PM PST by DPMD
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