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NTSB: Hawaii plane floated 25 mins, then sank.
AP via Star Advertiser ^ | Dec 31, 2013 | AP via Star Advertiser

Posted on 01/01/2014 3:18:25 PM PST by RckyRaCoCo

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To: All
Here is another link to Farrakan Qdaffi and possibly Fort through of all people: Axelrod.!

Obama’s face was featured on the cover of a 2006 issue of Trumpet alongside Farrakhan’s image. During the 2008 presidential campaign, a 2004 photo emerged of Obama’s wife, Michelle, posing with Farrakhan and Obama adviser Barrow at a woman’s luncheon for the Rainbow/Push Coalition for which Barrow serves as chairman emeritus. In the picture with Michelle Obama is Khadijah Farrakhan, Louis Farrakhan’s wife. Another Obama connection to supporters of Farrakhan comes from David Axelrod, Obama’s chief political strategist. Although he is Jewish, Axelrod sits on the finance committee of St. Sabina, the Chicago Catholic parish that was led by controversial pastor Michael Pfleger, an outspoken Farrakhan supporter who hosted the Nation of Islam chief at his parish several times. The Archdiocese of Chicago temporarily removed Pfleger from his duties at St. Sabina in 2008 following a well-publicized guest sermon at Trinity church in which he claimed Hillary Clinton cried in public because she thought being white entitled her to the Democratic presidential nomination. Pfleger hosted Farrakhan at his church several times, including one May 2007 sermon that was Farrakhan’s first public appearance since he announced in 2006 he had been suffering from prostate cancer and was seriously ill. According to reports, Pfleger spent hours with the Nation of Islam chief during his illness. Pfleger previously enlisted Farrakhan’s support for several of his initiatives, including an anti-gun protest in 2007.


141 posted on 01/04/2014 6:16:10 PM PST by rodguy911 (FreeRepublic:Land of the Free because of the Brave--Sarah Palin our secret weapon)
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To: butterdezillion

According to the article

“According to Lang and Thomson, about 15 minutes before the first rescue crew arrived the aircraft completely submerged and sank. “

If the plane floated for 25 minutes and the rescue crew arrived 15 minutes after it sank wouldn’t that mean about 35 to 45 minutes after the crash the first rescue crews arrived?

Is that the crew that put the rescue swimmer in the water?

142 posted on 01/04/2014 6:34:37 PM PST by 4Zoltan
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To: rodguy911

off topic but interesting...El Rukin Tribe of the Moorish Science Temple - crime masquerading as religion

143 posted on 01/04/2014 6:59:08 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: rodguy911


Competing factions developed among the congregations and leaders, especially after the death of the charismatic Noble Drew Ali, and led to at least three separate organizations. The founding of the Nation of Islam by Wallace Fard Muhammad also created competition for members. In the 1930s membership was estimated at 30,000, with one third in Chicago. During the postwar years, the Moorish Science Temple of America continued to increase in membership, albeit at a slower rate. ~~~

Just another cult-offshoot from islam - this one for blacks, where-as Pak Suhub was a sufi muslim from Indonesia, and it seems SUBUD appeals to stupid whites who need to submit to something/anything and give away their money to a manipulator who convinces them they are all little gods...

Get back to Fuddy. And just how powerful is/was this cult in Hawaii, which appears to have been well established at the East West Centre from the early sixties.

144 posted on 01/04/2014 7:18:07 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: 4Zoltan

As you can see, the claims don’t match up. Nothing matches up. Number of people transported, by whom, and to where. Times that things happened. Where people were found. Ages, what kind of injuries. None of the stories add up.

It seems like Lang refers to the Navy helicopter as a rescue crew. Maybe he left before he saw that they just put down the smoke flares? I don’t know. Maybe the sinking of the plane was timed from when Lang got back and watched, after going to the Molokai Airport and finding nobody there who could help?

It doesn’t make sense. And that’s why we want answers.

It seems like the Maui Fire Department was said to pick up 5 people alive from the water, but the articles refer to those 5 people being taken to the Molokai Medical Center in the Coast Guard PLANE (as opposed to the Coast Guard helicopters which took the more injured people to Honolulu). So it almost seems like Maui Fire Department personnel did some of the water rescue but rescued those victims to either the Coast Guard boat that was there, or to the Coast Guard plane. But other reports claim that everybody was taken to Kalaupapa. So again, discrepancies in the reporting.

I’ve been trying to check out the lay of the Maui County government. Both my laptop and my desktop are rebelling; don’t seem to want me looking into this stuff. I hadn’t realized that Molokai is part of Maui County. The Maui County Fire and Public Safety Department has 3 fire stations on Molokai. So when they talk about the Molokai Fire Department spokespeople, they are probably talking about the people who did the rescue - and they could be from Maui or they could be right there on Molokai.

As far as I can tell - from the absence of a Maui County Coroner’s Office and from a search for “coroner” on the Maui County Police Department’s webpage (see ) - there is no Maui County Coroner. The Police Chief is considered the county’s coroner. The actual medical examinations are done at the Maui County Medical Center, which is where they took Fuddy. The NTSB was responsible to get with the county authorities to make sure that an autopsy would be conducted. That would be the Maui County Police Chief.

Keeping that in mind, process what was said at,0,5454578,full.story#axzz2nsCKQtDa :

“On Thursday, Lt. William Juan with the Maui Police Department said that Fuddy’s body had been recovered from the wreckage and that an autopsy would be conducted.”

According to , “Lieutenant William Juan was assigned to Community Relations”.

IOW, you’ve got the spokesman for the Maui County police chief - the “coroner in charge” of the autopsy - publicly claiming the day after the incident that the body they are investigating had been recovered from the wreckage. That’s a pretty serious discrepancy, given by the person who is legally REQUIRED to know what was going on - who was supposed to collect the basic information directly from the rescue crew.

145 posted on 01/04/2014 7:30:37 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Juan was also the person who said it was the NTSB’s responsibility to determine Fuddy’s cause of death. A claim the NTSB flatly denied.

146 posted on 01/04/2014 7:39:58 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: Fantasywriter

Was he really? Interesting. Here I was thinking that the NTSB and Police Dept were arguing over who was supposed to make the coroner do his/her job, but the Police Chief IS the coroner. He has to collect the information and order the autopsy. The autopsy is HIS report, compelled by him and under his authority. HE makes the final determination of cause of death, based on the medical report by the forensic examiner at the hospital, which he commissioned in his role as coroner.

This puts a whole new light on that exchange between the Police Department and the NTSB.

147 posted on 01/04/2014 8:00:11 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Here is the quote:

‘Maui police Lt. William Juan has said the NTSB is involved in determining a cause of death. However, the NTSB says that’s up to Maui County.

“I am the lead investigator over the accident but I don’t have jurisdiction over the county,” Struhsaker said, adding that the NTSB can provide information that will help determine a cause of death.

The investigation involves interviewing the people who were near Fuddy in the water, Struhsaker said.’

148 posted on 01/04/2014 8:08:38 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: butterdezillion

Excellent work.

149 posted on 01/04/2014 8:15:53 PM PST by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Of course he has white feet. They never get in the sun usually.

150 posted on 01/04/2014 8:34:05 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Fantasywriter

Yep, you’re right. Thanks for that link.

I’ve seen a list of records that the NTSB is exempted from disclosing in FOIA requests, and it includes records involving a right to privacy that outweighs the public interest, including autopsies. But the “public interest” in regards to NTSB investigations deals with the safety of transportation, not a criminal investigation.

A coroner’s report is compelled by state law in instances where it is assumed there is a public interest. The public interest in the results of a compelled autopsy is potential crimes and accountability. If that public interest wasn’t so justifiable and compelling, the autopsies wouldn’t be legally required. A coroner’s report would automatically have a public interest that outweighs any privacy concerns.

The NTSB’s role is to treat the EVIDENCE as if it was a crime scene. Determining cause of death for the victims is beyond their job.

But there was a link at the bottom of the page you gave me; it led to a page with a paragraph or two as a “teaser” and then you have to be a subscriber to see the rest. In that paragraph it said, “Spokesman Eric Weiss said a helicopter spotted what’s suspected to be the downed Cessna Grand Caravan about 400 to 500 yards off the north shore of Molo­kai at a depth of about 60 to 70 feet. The agency initially said recovery would be unlikely because the wreckage, belonging to Makani Kai Air, was thought to be at a greater depth. Login for more...”

It’s interesting that they refer to the wreckage as belonging to Makani Kai, because even though it belongs to Makani Kai, the wreckage site is to be considered by the NTSB as a crime scene that has to be secured. Makani Kai does not have jurisdiction to do anything with “their property” until it has been released to them by the NTSB. So the DC spokesman for the NTSB, Weiss, is trying to dance around the issue of who is supposed to have access to those remains. NTSB regulations regarding accident scenes can be read at

Makani Kai Air hired a helicopter to find that wreckage. They arranged for the salvage team to come get it. They helped lift it out of the water. It was disassembled before the salvage team got it out of the water - the engine from the rest of the wreckage, which would NOT happen by banging against rocks, even if there was wave action to bang it against rocks.

The NTSB wouldn’t tell anybody how the wreckage was found (see ), who arranged for the salvage crew, or anything else. But it was ALL arranged, overseen, and done by Makani Kai Air (see ), not the NTSB who was legally required to secure the crime scene from any tampering by Makani Kai Air or anybody else.

Turns out that the Makani Kai maintenance guy will be part of the NTSB team that takes apart and examines the engine in Canada at the end of this month. (see )If the wreckage was to be considered a crime scene, the mechanic would have to be considered one of the prime suspects for any intentional sabotage - and yet he is going to be doing the investigation? The potential “suspects” have been allowed to find, dismantle, move, and turn in the evidence, and now they are being allowed to conduct the investigation into whether they committed sabotage.


151 posted on 01/04/2014 8:46:13 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion
Lang also claims they “contacted the Moloka’i tower for clearance just before 3:30 p.m. Wednesday. They say the tower operator asked if they were able to hear an “ELT” or Emergency Locator Transmitter.” But when they landed at the airport 5 minutes later, there was no one around. IOW, there was at least one person in the tower who knew there had been a crash but disappeared from the scene within moments. Who called the Coast Guard and the fire department? This thing gets weirder and weirder.

152 posted on 01/04/2014 8:47:45 PM PST by bgill
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To: butterdezillion

Unbelievable. Lawlessness surrounds Obama like vultures around carrion.

153 posted on 01/04/2014 8:57:10 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: butterdezillion

Unless they don’t want it to be a crime scene.

154 posted on 01/04/2014 8:57:14 PM PST by bgill
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To: bgill

Yes, it does.

Who will tell us what really happened? The NTSB is only supposed to find the cause of the accident. Who is supposed to investigate whether crimes were committed?

The Maui Police Department claimed publicly the day after Fuddy’s death that her body was retrieved from the wreckage - furthering the misperception that she died in the plane crash, not afterwards. It was only when the witnesses came forward, with stories refuting that initial claim, that we found the spokesman for Fuddy’s official “coroner” was not telling us the truth. Are those the people who are going to investigate and tell us the truth about who did or didn’t get immediate help for those crash victims?

155 posted on 01/04/2014 9:01:02 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: bgill

The regulations say that if there is fire or a death (among other things) there has to be an extensive investigation and the scene needs to be treated as a crime scene. Kawasaki claimed that “—”I know is there was a bang and I had an annunciator panel that was nothing but red and yellow lights, and a fire warning was going off, and I was like ‘okay I’m in trouble,’” (see )

So even if Fuddy’s death was found to be unrelated to the crash, the area would still have to be treated as a crime scene according to the regulations, because the pilot reported that a fire warning had gone off.

But then, at least one passenger on the Cessna 208 that went down on Oct 21 (less than 25 miles away from this accident) reported that there were sparks so that should have been treated as a crime scene also. Instead, the wreckage was left unattended overnight and the air company (Mokulele Express) was allowed to move the wreckage to a vacant lot. The NTSB official at that time said that if there was going to be an in-depth investigation the company would be responsible to move the aircraft (at that point there should have been no question of whether there would be an extensive investigation). But even though they’ve had the intact plane in a hangar for inspection and it was known that engine failure was the problem, they haven’t come up with a cause for the engine failure in the past 2 1/2 months.

156 posted on 01/04/2014 9:11:17 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Woah.... excellent analysis!

Deserves its own topic!

157 posted on 01/04/2014 9:12:56 PM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57 returning after lurking since 2000))
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To: butterdezillion

Here’s what strikes me. The autopsy failed to determine a cause of death. So the investigation continues. According to the NTSB spokesman, the investigation consists of interviewing ppl who were in the water w Fuddy.

Now how are these ppl, the survivors, supposed to know about how & why Fuddy died? According to her assistant, she bobbed around alive in the water for a while & then suddenly passed away. If that’s true, what can any of the other survivors add/contribute? There’s no info there; she just died.

The only way the input of her fellow survivors cd be dispositive is if foul play is suspected. Then it wd be a case of somebody having seen something, & they’ll just keep on interviewing until they find out what it may have been.

That’s how it looks to me, anyway. Though who can believe anything these ppl tell us; lies are the stock and trade of anybody even remotely connected to that most pathological of all liars, Obama.

158 posted on 01/04/2014 9:15:28 PM PST by Fantasywriter
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To: Fantasywriter

I think the NTSB guy was trying to say that their responsibility is to check out the plane accident, which involves talking to the victims, and there could be information from the witnesses that might help the coroner put pieces together. And that’s the only connection between the NTSB and the coroner’s job of finding a cause of death. The coroner could ask the NTSB for clues from the witnesses if that would be helpful, but the NTSB isn’t collecting information for the express purpose of helping find the cause of death.

In the same way, the coroner is not supposed to find out what caused the accident. He’s supposed to find the cause of death. But if something with Fuddy’s body and/or cause of death is suspicious it could be a clue for the NTSB regarding what caused the accident. If Fuddy died of poisoning, for instance, the NTSB should know that sabotage is much more likely than if it was a truly natural death.

So there’s some interplay between the Police Dept/Coroner and the NTSB but they actually do have separate, distinctive roles that should not be confused. I think that’s what the NTSB was trying to communicate.

The coroner should be able to tell us whether Fuddy had effects from hypothermia, whether she had a heart attack, stroke, aneurysm, whether she drowned, etc.

It was kind of funny, reading in a place I don’t usually read, where somebody was frustrated because they knew the coroner was going to come out with a result just like they do with celebrities - saying such-and-so is the cause of death, pending toxicology results - and the “crazy birthers” were going to consider it odd that they came up with a cause of death before all the evidence was in. What’s funny is that this DIDN’T happen. We were saying that if there was an obvious cause of death such as drowning, heart attack, etc, they should say that is the cause of death, pending the results of the toxicology tests to rule out any foul play. The fact that they DIDN’T report these other obvious causes of death - like they do with celebrities, as noted by this anti-birther - suggests that there WEREN’T ANY, and that the death ISN”T explained by heart attack, stroke, aneurysm, hypothermia, etc.

159 posted on 01/04/2014 9:32:08 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Yes, in a sane world but this is hussein’s HI which means up is down.

160 posted on 01/04/2014 9:35:00 PM PST by bgill
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