Skip to comments.Terri Schiavo family becomes involved in Jahi's case [Oakland Teen Facing Death]
Posted on 01/02/2014 5:48:01 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
The family of Terri Schiavo, a comatose woman who died in 2005, has become involved in helping the family of a comatose California teenager.
Jahi McMath's family hopes to transfer the 13-year-old from Children's Hospital Oakland to New Beginnings, a New York facility dedicated to Schiavo's memory, the San Jose Mercury News reported. Jahi's family has gone to court to force Children's to keep her on a ventilator, while the hospital contends she is brain dead.
Schiavo was the focus of a lengthy legal battle between her husband, who wanted to remove her from a feeding tube and allow her to die, and her parents. In the months before her death, the case attracted national attention.
The Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Foundation said Tuesday it has been helping Jahi's family but has done so quietly because of the case's "sensitivity."
"Jahi McMath has been labeled a 'deceased' person. Yet she retains all the functional attributes of a living person, despite her brain injury," the foundation said. "This includes a beating heart, circulation and respiration, the ability to metabolize nutrition and more. Jahi is a living human being."
(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...
Under CA law, the hospital as the right to pull the plug w/o the families permission! I was shocked to hear that.
So much for the compassionate left.
Who is paying for the care?
The little black girl is already deceased. Brain death has occurred and no amount of anything will change that.
No one wants to ‘kill’ this child. This child is already long gone. Pull the ventilator and it will become readily apparent
right now the taxpayers are
you are confused. Under California law a doctor may pronounce you dead. When you are so pronounced there is not much point in keeping mechanical devices going.
Nice to see so much support for socialized medicine, I suppose.
you are clueless this has nothing to do with socialized medicine. This young girl is a tragedy. She died during a medical procedure. Because people like you do not understand the human body and its functioning well enough you somehow think that keeping her on a ventilator is the same as keeping her ‘alive;. It is not. Kill the ventilator that is oxygenating her blood an coursing it though her veins and her death will be obvious.
“This child is already long gone.”
This situation is turning macabre, a doctor on one of the talk shows indicated that ‘What is happening is a delay of the body decomposition process’.
You misunderstand me. My issue is with those saying that she should be kept on the ventilator regardless of the costs. I wouldn’t care if private donations or the family was footing the bill, but since it’s the taxpayers, I do care. My contention is that those insisting she be kept “alive” are supporting socialized medicine, which is rare in these parts, no?
that is exactly what is happening. The slowing won’t prevent it totally. The organs are slowly rotting inside this body.
I feel such heart ache for the parents. Not all medical procedures end well (even if no mistakes were made and it seems this is one of those cases). They can’t wrap their brains around their child no longer being alive. Their grief does not change the truth
ah okay I see your point and yes I agree.
I was hoping they would get involved.
My daughter is breathing, Jahi’s mother, Nailah Winkfield, says. She moves. When I go in there and touch her, she moves her whole body, her legs, her shoulders. How can you possibly say my child is dead if she responds to my voice?
I've resisted pinging Terri's List, because this appears to be a case of a dead body being kept fresh on life support. At least that's the picture the media has painted. I haven't seen anything offered by her family, or anyone else, which would bring that assessment into question.
Now that Terri Schiavo's family is openly supporting the family's position, I've decided to ping the list. I don't have enough information to cause me to doubt the claim that she's dead, but I hope some open discussion will bring some answers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s just odd to me that these types of cases are the only time FReepers want everybody to pay for someone else’s healthcare.
Are there any FReeper physicians who can comment on this case? I suspect that without central nervous system feedback, it is only a matter of time before organ failure sets in and the respirator becomes ineffective anyway, but I do not know. I’d love to hear from someone who has experience with artificially keeping functions going in a dead body.
I feel for the family, but prolonging the time the corpse is oxygenated won’t bring the girl back and just makes the situation psychologically more difficult for the other family members.
This is NOT another Terri Schindler. Terri was actually alive and healthy.
This is about more than one child. As with the Terri Schiavo case, it's about the government and doctors and if they can force those decisions on the family. This is really about death panels, and the test case is one where a lot of medical professional want to expediate the girls passing.
On the practical side, if there was medical error that caused this to happen, should those responsible be forced to pay to meet the parents wishes? They're getting off the hook here.
I’ve heard of situations that involve the family’s cessation of benefits if the family member dies. My point is that there can be issues which aren’t apparent.
I'm sure medicaid got cut off the moment she was legally pronounced dead. As she has yet to be pronounced undead, the hospital is probably eating the roughly $10,000/day it costs to keep Jahi on life support as her parents patiently wait for God Himself to miracle her back to life.
How the hospital is going to recoup these costs, I don't know. But I can guess...
Someone who is brain dead is dead. Their brain cannot metabolize, produce hormones, regulate body temperature, etc. There is an an exhaustive list of medical tests and procedures, (the most accurate and certain are the EEG/EKG, and radioactive isotope tests that detect blood flow into the brain) that three (3) independent doctors have gone through with Jhai.
She is brain dead, there is no recovery. Even on life supporting equipment, she will die very soon as the body cannot exist without the brain for very long, even with our wonderful medical technology.
What is sad is that she could be an organ donor and save more lives, but with the time that has passed, her organs will probably be non-donatable.
Here is a non layman article on coma vs. brain death to help readers to become educated on the two very different medical definitions.
Prayers for the little girl. Her soul is in Heaven, her body dead here.
If her brain is dead, then what’s regulating her heart and digestive systems? Those things can’t continue without a living brain, or a part thereof. If those autonomic systems can function, then it means there is at least somesb
Give the kid a chance, give her family a chance to absorb it all. A couple of months isn’t going to hurt anything. If her brain CAN do any healing, it tends to happen slowly anyway. There’s obviously some circulation there or else her autonomic nervous system wouldn’t function at all, and it’s functioning.
The Medula oblingota. Her brain will liquify, or already has started to dissolve and will pour out of skull into her sinus' and into her lungs/stomach. Without bloodflow, her body will slowly decompose until her heart finally stops.
Coma is not synonymous with a vegetative state. But you’re right, it’s also not synonymous with brain death.
The question I have is whether or not she really is brain dead. It seems likely to me that she is, but I’m not convinced. The media lied about Terri Schiavo, Haleigh Poutre, Lauren Richardson, Scott (can’t remember his last name), and how many others? Are they lying again?
This is why, before I open an account, I have my clients visit an estate attorney and get a trust set up. In the trust should have provisions upon death of either one or both spouses, to include their medical DNR, medical will, legal will, and who makes the decision to pull the plug.
Thanks for the link.
On a page other than the one you linked, it says, “Although the patient has a dead brain and dead brain stem, there may be spinal cord reflexes that can be elicited (a knee jerk, for example). In some brain dead patients, when the hand or foot is touched in a particular manner, the touch will elicit a short reflex movement.”
I wonder if that is what the mother observed when she says that her daughter responds to touch.
These people need a good chaplain to talk to them and encourage them to accept the reality. Prolonging the time the body is kept on a respiratory and keeping their false hopes up is just going to make the crash that much harder when the body inevitably fails completely.
It is called the Lazarus effect or sign.
Were do you get the state is footing the cost?..The girl had surgery at that hospital...that hospitital screwed up...the hospital is on the hook for the cost...and the hospital is making the call that ...hmmmm...just so happens is the lowest cost option to the hospital
Jeepers... thanks for the ping.
She's already dead by any rational definition of the term.
I haven’t yet heard that the hospital screwed up. Was that just announced?
Ok ..she went in for a tonsillectomy and came out ??? So you saying the operation was a sucess? Or just one of those things?
If what I’ve read is true, she had her tonsils and adenoids removed and her uvula reshaped/reduced. Of course, the media could be lying about this. Both of us are only going on what we’ve been told by them. If the report is true then this is not a simple procedure; however, regardless of the simplicity every surgery carries a risk. That risk is increased on a child, especially an obese child like this poor soul. Did the hospital screw up? Did the hospital do a marvelous job and this child’s indulgent family (children don’t become obese on their own) break protocol and bring her food, causing the problems that led to this? Was it a frightening freak issue that sometimes tragically happens without any reason or explanation?
The real tragedy here is that her parents wanted a quick fix for her sleep apnea instead of cooking healthy food for her and themselves and getting up off of the couch and exercising together.
That's the problem in these things no body perfect even with the best intentions..all have conflicting interest on both sides.
Put her in an independent facility before the call is made
The family hasn't been able to find one willing to take her.
The facility mentioned in this article, "New Beginnings" is an outpatient center run by a former hairdresser who offers a "holistic approach" to dealing with traumatic brain injuries.
From what I’m reading, no facility will take her because they do not accept dead people. Again, if what’s being reported is true then this family needs professional help because they are just not getting that it’s over. I desperately feel sorry for them, and if the hospital is at fault I hope it is found accountable.
That's what makes this a difficult call. With Terri Schiavo we had videos, court documents, testimony from reputable doctors and other medical staff who had actually examined and cared for Terri, etc. We knew she was alive, because we could see her interacting. All the medical experts agreed that she was alive and responsive, though they didn't all agree on how responsive. She was severely brain damaged, but definitely alive.
In this case all we have is a bunch of he-said/she-said. Some sources say there is a machine forcing her heart to pump. Others say there isn't. Some say her body is already decomposing. Some say it isn't.
If her family want to get the public to support their claim, they need to provide some evidence. Video would be helpful, if they're telling the truth.
Goodness, that Lazarus effect sounds creepy. As if being near a dead person wasn’t creepy enough!
I can certainly see how such reflexes could fool people who are desperately looking for signs of life.
Having grown up on a farm, I have witnessed very strong reflex movements in decapitated chickens. I’ll bet none of this family have ever seen this happen.
This is purely my opinion based on what I’ve read about this case, and what I witness in my “urban” community: The parents are products of inner city schools and are quite ignorant. They are, however, receiving a lot of publicity. Uneducated + video cameras = 15 seconds of fame. Again, this is purely my guess. They are going to get the reverends involved and obama as well. Look for the race card to be used as well.
Also, I don’t think the hospital is trying to control anything. Their hands are tied because a coroner has ruled the girl dead.
Her daughter is NOT breathing. There is a ventilator breathing for this girl. The body tends to move when this happens.
My previous statements still stand. This mother is in denial and cannot accept what is
The questions I have are:
Who benefits most from pulling the plug - I suspect it’s the hospital that screwed up. I read elsewhere, but haven’t independently sourced, that this is the second oopsie from a tonsillectomy. They will end up paying for this girl’s care until the plug is pulled.
Because of that, is the hospital telling the truth. Because of their financial interest, I’m not sure I trust them.
Our culture loves to pull the plug, even if someone is neither dying nor dead - see Terri Schiavo’s story. And young people can recover from severe brain injuries and sometimes miracles occur.
It does no harm to put her in long term care temporarily. The hospital just doesn’t want to pay the freight. They are refusing to do minor surgery to enable her to be moved - that self-righteous “we don’t do surgeries on dead people” would have gone away pretty quick if she was an organ donor.
Not much pro life are you.