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Terri Schiavo family becomes involved in Jahi's case [Oakland Teen Facing Death]
UPI ^ | 1/1/14

Posted on 01/02/2014 5:48:01 AM PST by SoFloFreeper

The family of Terri Schiavo, a comatose woman who died in 2005, has become involved in helping the family of a comatose California teenager.

Jahi McMath's family hopes to transfer the 13-year-old from Children's Hospital Oakland to New Beginnings, a New York facility dedicated to Schiavo's memory, the San Jose Mercury News reported. Jahi's family has gone to court to force Children's to keep her on a ventilator, while the hospital contends she is brain dead.

Schiavo was the focus of a lengthy legal battle between her husband, who wanted to remove her from a feeding tube and allow her to die, and her parents. In the months before her death, the case attracted national attention.

The Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Foundation said Tuesday it has been helping Jahi's family but has done so quietly because of the case's "sensitivity."

"Jahi McMath has been labeled a 'deceased' person. Yet she retains all the functional attributes of a living person, despite her brain injury," the foundation said. "This includes a beating heart, circulation and respiration, the ability to metabolize nutrition and more. Jahi is a living human being."

(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: euthanasia; jahimcmath; life; murder
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So who wants to kill the little black girl in this case? The hospital? The state?
1 posted on 01/02/2014 5:48:01 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

Under CA law, the hospital as the right to pull the plug w/o the families permission! I was shocked to hear that.

So much for the compassionate left.


2 posted on 01/02/2014 5:57:32 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Who is paying for the care?


3 posted on 01/02/2014 5:57:56 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: SoFloFreeper
--So who wants to kill the little black girl in this case?--

The little black girl is already deceased. Brain death has occurred and no amount of anything will change that.

4 posted on 01/02/2014 5:58:12 AM PST by JPG (Yes We Can morphs into Make It Hurt.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

No one wants to ‘kill’ this child. This child is already long gone. Pull the ventilator and it will become readily apparent


5 posted on 01/02/2014 6:04:43 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Wolfie

right now the taxpayers are


6 posted on 01/02/2014 6:05:01 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Red in Blue PA

you are confused. Under California law a doctor may pronounce you dead. When you are so pronounced there is not much point in keeping mechanical devices going.


7 posted on 01/02/2014 6:08:30 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster

Nice to see so much support for socialized medicine, I suppose.


8 posted on 01/02/2014 6:10:22 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Wolfie

you are clueless… this has nothing to do with socialized medicine. This young girl is a tragedy. She died during a medical procedure. Because people like you do not understand the human body and its functioning well enough you somehow think that keeping her on a ventilator is the same as keeping her ‘alive;. It is not. Kill the ventilator that is oxygenating her blood an coursing it though her veins and her death will be obvious.


9 posted on 01/02/2014 6:13:54 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Nifster

“This child is already long gone.”

This situation is turning macabre, a doctor on one of the talk shows indicated that ‘What is happening is a delay of the body decomposition process’.


10 posted on 01/02/2014 6:17:03 AM PST by duckman (I'm part of the group pulling the wagon!)
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To: Nifster

You misunderstand me. My issue is with those saying that she should be kept on the ventilator regardless of the costs. I wouldn’t care if private donations or the family was footing the bill, but since it’s the taxpayers, I do care. My contention is that those insisting she be kept “alive” are supporting socialized medicine, which is rare in these parts, no?


11 posted on 01/02/2014 6:22:02 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: duckman

that is exactly what is happening. The slowing won’t prevent it totally. The organs are slowly rotting inside this body.

I feel such heart ache for the parents. Not all medical procedures end well (even if no mistakes were made… and it seems this is one of those cases). They can’t wrap their brains around their child no longer being alive. Their grief does not change the truth


12 posted on 01/02/2014 6:22:25 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Wolfie

ah okay I see your point… and yes I agree.


13 posted on 01/02/2014 6:23:05 AM PST by Nifster
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To: SoFloFreeper

I was hoping they would get involved.


14 posted on 01/02/2014 6:25:32 AM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Nifster

“My daughter is breathing,” Jahi’s mother, Nailah Winkfield, says. “She moves. When I go in there and touch her, she moves her whole body, her legs, her shoulders. How can you possibly say my child is dead if she responds to my voice?”


15 posted on 01/02/2014 6:26:14 AM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; 8mmMauser; T'wit; wagglebee; Alamo-Girl; AlwaysFree; amdgmary; angelwings49; ..

I've resisted pinging Terri's List, because this appears to be a case of a dead body being kept fresh on life support. At least that's the picture the media has painted. I haven't seen anything offered by her family, or anyone else, which would bring that assessment into question.

Now that Terri Schiavo's family is openly supporting the family's position, I've decided to ping the list. I don't have enough information to cause me to doubt the claim that she's dead, but I hope some open discussion will bring some answers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

16 posted on 01/02/2014 6:28:03 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Nifster

It’s just odd to me that these types of cases are the only time FReepers want everybody to pay for someone else’s healthcare.


17 posted on 01/02/2014 6:28:38 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: SoFloFreeper

Are there any FReeper physicians who can comment on this case? I suspect that without central nervous system feedback, it is only a matter of time before organ failure sets in and the respirator becomes ineffective anyway, but I do not know. I’d love to hear from someone who has experience with artificially keeping functions going in a dead body.

I feel for the family, but prolonging the time the corpse is oxygenated won’t bring the girl back and just makes the situation psychologically more difficult for the other family members.

This is NOT another Terri Schindler. Terri was actually alive and healthy.


18 posted on 01/02/2014 6:38:23 AM PST by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: Wolfie
I wouldn't have any trouble with the parents being told that the hospital and doctors have determined that in their opinion the child cannot be saved and they can no longer continue caring for her. Where I draw the line is whether the parents have the right to bring their child home to die or transport her to another facility.

This is about more than one child. As with the Terri Schiavo case, it's about the government and doctors and if they can force those decisions on the family. This is really about death panels, and the test case is one where a lot of medical professional want to expediate the girls passing.

On the practical side, if there was medical error that caused this to happen, should those responsible be forced to pay to meet the parents wishes? They're getting off the hook here.

19 posted on 01/02/2014 6:40:04 AM PST by grania
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To: Wolfie

I’ve heard of situations that involve the family’s cessation of benefits if the family member dies. My point is that there can be issues which aren’t apparent.


20 posted on 01/02/2014 6:42:28 AM PST by Silentgypsy (Can't sleep; zombie turkeys will get me..)
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To: Wolfie
Who is paying for the care?

I'm sure medicaid got cut off the moment she was legally pronounced dead. As she has yet to be pronounced undead, the hospital is probably eating the roughly $10,000/day it costs to keep Jahi on life support as her parents patiently wait for God Himself to miracle her back to life.

How the hospital is going to recoup these costs, I don't know. But I can guess...

21 posted on 01/02/2014 6:54:35 AM PST by Drew68
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To: SoFloFreeper
People are ignorant on the difference between a comotose patient and a brain dead patient. Someone in a coma (a vegetative state) can have many brain functions and with or without mechanical support.

Someone who is brain dead is dead. Their brain cannot metabolize, produce hormones, regulate body temperature, etc. There is an an exhaustive list of medical tests and procedures, (the most accurate and certain are the EEG/EKG, and radioactive isotope tests that detect blood flow into the brain) that three (3) independent doctors have gone through with Jhai.

She is brain dead, there is no recovery. Even on life supporting equipment, she will die very soon as the body cannot exist without the brain for very long, even with our wonderful medical technology.

What is sad is that she could be an organ donor and save more lives, but with the time that has passed, her organs will probably be non-donatable.

Here is a non layman article on coma vs. brain death to help readers to become educated on the two very different medical definitions.

Prayers for the little girl. Her soul is in Heaven, her body dead here.

22 posted on 01/02/2014 7:02:54 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: DCBryan1

If her brain is dead, then what’s regulating her heart and digestive systems? Those things can’t continue without a living brain, or a part thereof. If those autonomic systems can function, then it means there is at least somesb

Give the kid a chance, give her family a chance to absorb it all. A couple of months isn’t going to hurt anything. If her brain CAN do any healing, it tends to happen slowly anyway. There’s obviously some circulation there or else her autonomic nervous system wouldn’t function at all, and it’s functioning.


23 posted on 01/02/2014 7:22:33 AM PST by PrairieLady2
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To: SoFloFreeper
If what we are being told by the media is true, this is not even close to the Terri Schiavo case. Terri was very much alive and this poor soul is not. The family needs psychological help, and as a mother I cannot even imagine what they are going through. I'd lose my mind if I lost one of my babies. I can't help but think that they are demanding this because of their own guilt. This child underwent surgery for a problem that could have possibly been eliminated by healthy eating and exercise. If weight loss did not alleviate the problem then the surgery could have been considered. This family wanted a quick fix, but anesthetizing a small body and then carving out body parts comes with a lot of risks. I've also noticed that they don't want to take her home and take care of her, they want her in a facility. They want somebody else to take care of the child. This whole case is heart breaking and disturbing.
24 posted on 01/02/2014 7:34:25 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: PrairieLady2
If her brain is dead, then what’s regulating her heart and digestive systems?

The Medula oblingota. Her brain will liquify, or already has started to dissolve and will pour out of skull into her sinus' and into her lungs/stomach. Without bloodflow, her body will slowly decompose until her heart finally stops.

25 posted on 01/02/2014 8:01:57 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: DCBryan1

Coma is not synonymous with a vegetative state. But you’re right, it’s also not synonymous with brain death.

The question I have is whether or not she really is brain dead. It seems likely to me that she is, but I’m not convinced. The media lied about Terri Schiavo, Haleigh Poutre, Lauren Richardson, Scott (can’t remember his last name), and how many others? Are they lying again?


26 posted on 01/02/2014 8:07:06 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: Wolfie
It’s just odd to me that these types of cases are the only time FReepers want everybody to pay for someone else’s healthcare.

Agreed 100%

27 posted on 01/02/2014 8:10:31 AM PST by sharkhawk (Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall.)
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To: BykrBayb
Are they lying again?

This is why, before I open an account, I have my clients visit an estate attorney and get a trust set up. In the trust should have provisions upon death of either one or both spouses, to include their medical DNR, medical will, legal will, and who makes the decision to pull the plug.

28 posted on 01/02/2014 8:12:15 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: DCBryan1

Thanks for the link.

On a page other than the one you linked, it says, “Although the patient has a dead brain and dead brain stem, there may be spinal cord reflexes that can be elicited (a knee jerk, for example). In some brain dead patients, when the hand or foot is touched in a particular manner, the touch will elicit a short reflex movement.”

I wonder if that is what the mother observed when she says that her daughter responds to touch.

These people need a good chaplain to talk to them and encourage them to accept the reality. Prolonging the time the body is kept on a respiratory and keeping their false hopes up is just going to make the crash that much harder when the body inevitably fails completely.


29 posted on 01/02/2014 8:12:15 AM PST by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: exDemMom
Although the patient has a dead brain and dead brain stem, there may be spinal cord reflexes that can be elicited (a knee jerk, for example). In some brain dead patients, when the hand or foot is touched in a particular manner, the touch will elicit a short reflex movement.”

It is called the Lazarus effect or sign.

30 posted on 01/02/2014 8:17:07 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: exDemMom
A hospital spokesperson (or attorney) was discussing this at a press conference. I believe he referred to the movements as Lazarus syndrome or Lazarus effect. But basically, it is not a sign of life. Sad but true. The coroner has already pronounced the body dead.
31 posted on 01/02/2014 8:19:37 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Wolfie

Were do you get the state is footing the cost?..The girl had surgery at that hospital...that hospitital screwed up...the hospital is on the hook for the cost...and the hospital is making the call that ...hmmmm...just so happens is the lowest cost option to the hospital


32 posted on 01/02/2014 8:44:09 AM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: BykrBayb

Jeepers... thanks for the ping.


33 posted on 01/02/2014 8:45:48 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: SoFloFreeper
So who wants to kill the little black girl in this case? The hospital? The state?

She's already dead by any rational definition of the term.

34 posted on 01/02/2014 8:47:23 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: tophat9000

I haven’t yet heard that the hospital screwed up. Was that just announced?


35 posted on 01/02/2014 8:52:22 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun

Ok ..she went in for a tonsillectomy and came out ??? So you saying the operation was a sucess? Or just one of those things?


36 posted on 01/02/2014 9:00:00 AM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: tophat9000

If what I’ve read is true, she had her tonsils and adenoids removed and her uvula reshaped/reduced. Of course, the media could be lying about this. Both of us are only going on what we’ve been told by them. If the report is true then this is not a simple procedure; however, regardless of the simplicity every surgery carries a risk. That risk is increased on a child, especially an obese child like this poor soul. Did the hospital screw up? Did the hospital do a marvelous job and this child’s indulgent family (children don’t become obese on their own) break protocol and bring her food, causing the problems that led to this? Was it a frightening freak issue that sometimes tragically happens without any reason or explanation?

The real tragedy here is that her parents wanted a quick fix for her sleep apnea instead of cooking healthy food for her and themselves and getting up off of the couch and exercising together.


37 posted on 01/02/2014 9:12:09 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun
Agree any surgery has risk but real world ..for the sake of argument if all agreed she was still alive but just permanently disable the hospital would be on the hook for her care..you really think the hospital lawyers were not call in asap on this....
Look in cases like this went you having a life and death call..do you trust the one with a vested interest to make the “death call” ..death?...because you known a hospital lawyers is..and if for some odd reason if the hospital though it was in the hospital best interest to keep her ..well ..

That's the problem in these things no body perfect even with the best intentions..all have conflicting interest on both sides.

Put her in an independent facility before the call is made

38 posted on 01/02/2014 9:41:45 AM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: tophat9000
Put her in an independent facility before the call is made

The family hasn't been able to find one willing to take her.

The facility mentioned in this article, "New Beginnings" is an outpatient center run by a former hairdresser who offers a "holistic approach" to dealing with traumatic brain injuries.

39 posted on 01/02/2014 10:09:25 AM PST by Drew68
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To: tophat9000

From what I’m reading, no facility will take her because they do not accept dead people. Again, if what’s being reported is true then this family needs professional help because they are just not getting that it’s over. I desperately feel sorry for them, and if the hospital is at fault I hope it is found accountable.


40 posted on 01/02/2014 10:16:34 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun
If what I’ve read is true, she had her tonsils and adenoids removed and her uvula reshaped/reduced. Of course, the media could be lying about this.

That's what makes this a difficult call. With Terri Schiavo we had videos, court documents, testimony from reputable doctors and other medical staff who had actually examined and cared for Terri, etc. We knew she was alive, because we could see her interacting. All the medical experts agreed that she was alive and responsive, though they didn't all agree on how responsive. She was severely brain damaged, but definitely alive.

In this case all we have is a bunch of he-said/she-said. Some sources say there is a machine forcing her heart to pump. Others say there isn't. Some say her body is already decomposing. Some say it isn't.

If her family want to get the public to support their claim, they need to provide some evidence. Video would be helpful, if they're telling the truth.

41 posted on 01/02/2014 10:23:46 AM PST by BykrBayb (Somewhere, my flower is there. ~ Þ)
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To: DCBryan1; goodwithagun

Goodness, that Lazarus effect sounds creepy. As if being near a dead person wasn’t creepy enough!

I can certainly see how such reflexes could fool people who are desperately looking for signs of life.

Having grown up on a farm, I have witnessed very strong reflex movements in decapitated chickens. I’ll bet none of this family have ever seen this happen.


42 posted on 01/02/2014 10:59:43 AM PST by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: goodwithagun
Then question why is the hospital fighting to control the situation? if the facts are as you say she surely moved here to another facility to.have a second opinion will not change tha facts .if shes is dead as you say and the brain is breaking down then then body will die on its own..why is she a hot medical potato? Who does keeping her on life support hurt..well.it seem to hurt the hospital but is that
a factor to consider?. .if what the people that want to pull the plug on this thread is true life support will not sustain her for long..
43 posted on 01/02/2014 11:20:11 AM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: tophat9000

This is purely my opinion based on what I’ve read about this case, and what I witness in my “urban” community: The parents are products of inner city schools and are quite ignorant. They are, however, receiving a lot of publicity. Uneducated + video cameras = 15 seconds of fame. Again, this is purely my guess. They are going to get the reverends involved and obama as well. Look for the race card to be used as well.


44 posted on 01/02/2014 12:07:24 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: tophat9000

Also, I don’t think the hospital is trying to control anything. Their hands are tied because a coroner has ruled the girl dead.


45 posted on 01/02/2014 12:12:22 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: jonrick46

Her daughter is NOT breathing. There is a ventilator breathing for this girl. The body tends to move when this happens.

My previous statements still stand. This mother is in denial and cannot accept what is


46 posted on 01/02/2014 12:46:34 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Wolfie

agreed


47 posted on 01/02/2014 12:47:01 PM PST by Nifster
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To: SoFloFreeper

The questions I have are:
Who benefits most from pulling the plug - I suspect it’s the hospital that screwed up. I read elsewhere, but haven’t independently sourced, that this is the second oopsie from a tonsillectomy. They will end up paying for this girl’s care until the plug is pulled.

Because of that, is the hospital telling the truth. Because of their financial interest, I’m not sure I trust them.

Our culture loves to pull the plug, even if someone is neither dying nor dead - see Terri Schiavo’s story. And young people can recover from severe brain injuries and sometimes miracles occur.

It does no harm to put her in long term care temporarily. The hospital just doesn’t want to pay the freight. They are refusing to do minor surgery to enable her to be moved - that self-righteous “we don’t do surgeries on dead people” would have gone away pretty quick if she was an organ donor.


48 posted on 01/02/2014 1:08:32 PM PST by Wicket (1 Peter 3:15 , Romans 5:5-8)
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To: goodwithagun
But that the thing..you are going by a legal ruling ..well that the thing.. legal ruling say a child is not a human being in abortion..
I not trying to fight really but that the pardox..they say she dead so they must starve her..that illogical if she is in the state you say..if she dead the body will catch up with the mind..you don't need to help it.....if she dead ....feeding her does HER no harm ..keeping her of life support does HER no harm..its nothing to lose for her and the family. .the the only loser is the put her to this state ..they did not do this to themselves ..her maintain cost is no more then if she was brain alive ..and that cost is not her concern. A group of professionals did a job ..and it didn't turn out as planned ...they make big money...and do high risk jobs ..
that's why they deserve the big money...but that also why they have to face up to it when is does not go as planned ...
49 posted on 01/02/2014 1:27:16 PM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: Nifster

Not much pro life are you.


50 posted on 01/02/2014 3:30:17 PM PST by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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