Skip to comments.Hospital won't aid transfer of girl on ventilator
Posted on 01/02/2014 1:08:18 PM PST by Anton.Rutter
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yes, it is strange that the media is not even asking what went wrong with the tonsillectomy (or recovery)...
these operations are quite commonplace and do not usually involve turning a child into a corpse
(I realize that mistakes can happen, also that sometimes there are unforeseen complications, I am only asking why the media has not thought to ask such questions)
Her brain is not receiving blood. You can be assured it is decomposing.
is she decomposing? no. She is taking in oxygen and the body is doing o2/co2 exchange, the heart is beating, there is a pulse.
It s a gross distortion to say she’s a corpse.
You would think with all the cases of people coming out of vegetative comas, of states where there hans’t been brain function recorded, that people would err on the side of the possibility that it might be such a case, too.
Plenty of cases where docs said the person was gone, dead, etc and they come back. I actually am praying this is one of those cases.
I doubt the stubborn people will learn anything from it, though.
How do you know her brain isn’t receiving blood/oxygen?
Read my posts. This child did not have a simple tonsillectomy!
The parents aren't asking to take their daughter home. They're demanding that she continue receiving long-term care. No facility capable of providing long-term care has offered to take her, most likely this is because she's deceased.
“If those parents want their baby to continue to receive care, then thats THEIR business!”
Then they need to fill out the paperwork and find a facility. So far the family has submitted no paperwork, and no facility will take the body.
__She does not have rigor mortis, nor is she decomposing.__
Her brain is not receiving blood. You can be assured it is decomposing.
Accepting your assertion for the sake of discussion, we then see the reason for the term brain dead.
As opposed to dead, which needs no qualifier
I did not mean to cast aspersions on your honesty - I was just stating the obvious, this being the internet we have no way of knowing a poster's claims (for example, I am not actually Don Rodrigo, chasing Moors around with my lance). That said - I fully agreed with your comments and appreciated them. It included important technical details.
I understand the hospital’s position but quite frankly their PR spokesperson is a disaster. The PR guy is trying to win an argument that has no winners. Just suck it up, tell the media that all parties are painted in to a corner and there is no satisfactory resolution for anybody.
Is that why they are trying to get her transferred outside of California? Pull the plug there, and file the lawsuit in a State without tort reform? I don't know the legal ramifications - just speculating.
Many things are illegal, but are done anyway. For the right kind of human organ, the black market might pay between $30k and $100k. That’s more than enough to tempt the unscrupulous.
Hospitals and other authorities have also been known to destroy critical parts before autopsy, to cover their rear ends against lawsuits.
Agreed. The man does not transmit compassion. At all. In a court of public opinion, he is a cold fish stinking up the tank.
Theoretically speaking, how long can the heart continue beating while being brain dead? Does the injunction against the hospital maybe give some time for this case to resolve itself?(heart to stop beating)
Is there such thing as an oral ventilator that keeps the heart pumping?
By providing circulating oxygen the heart continues to pump.
Can a heart beat on its own, unassisted, in a dead body, if other organs are mechanically maintained?
Yes. As a matter of fact I read about a crack addict whose heart was so blitzed up that that ekg kept rocking but she had been dead so long that the blood in her veins had coagulated.
Ba****ds know that no coroner will sign off.
That's pretty standard...........
Because she's brain dead. Multiple tests and doctors have confirmed there is absolutely no cerebral activity taking place. Nothing. None.
I’d have to double check, but I thought I read that a coroner did pronounce her.
Imagine the lawsuit if this child, through some miracle, recovers even to a small degree. This cannot be allowed.
I guess more to the story than I thought. I agree losing weight would be the first thing to try before any surgery. Any surgery has risk.
“It actually wasnt routine tonsil surgery from what Ive read on this. She was having extensive surgery on her throat as a result of her sleep apnea from her weight problem. Why her mother didnt help her lose the weight instead of putting her through this risky surgery is something I havent seen addressed yet.”
I'm going to give the parents the benefit of the doubt and believe they are honestly driven by what they think is the best interest of their daughter.
And your medical degree is from where? Dishonest? Not hardly. I will refrain from calling you equally offensive names. Rigor Mortis? Only lasts 8 - 24 hours. Decomposing> Her brain is starting to liquefy. She is in fact decomposing. Just not the visible way that you would like to believe. If I am deliberately lying, shall I assume that you have the medical expertise to comment? I am most interested in your educated opinion. What supports what you say? I am supported by science, professional ethics, and morality. Your ignorance on the subject is astounding. I will wait to hear your reasoned response. Short of that, I will simply say you are more destructive to the conservative cause by promulgating opinion instead of dealing with fact. Please be advised that until you provide a reasonable answer, I will no longer discuss this issue with you.
I agree that this is their business, but also at their cost. If they want to pay privately they can, but should the insurance company be required to pay indefinitely. Should Medicare or Medicaid (you and I?) I believe that they should pay for this decision if they want this. But it is not grounded in reason or rationality
The lawsuit over this because of the hospital’s non-cooperation and original screw-up is likely to be a dandy.
Off hand I’d say a physician from that hospital suggested it and is presumably the “expert” on the matter.
There has yet to be an indication of a screw up. The hospital is only requiring what they must by law: Paperwork and a facility. The family has neither filled out paperwork nor found a facility. They haven’t found a facility because none will take the body. The family is refusing to waive HIPPA rights so the hospital cannot talk to us about the procedure.
I am not sure what the 'other procedures' were, but dying of a tonsillectomy seems a tad, well, wrong.
I understand all operations have risk, but that one isn't real high on the list.
Ice water is shot into the ears, looking for a
response of the eyes.
She had her tonsils and adenoids removed and her uvula reduced to help her sleep apnea. Basically this obese girl had a pretty involved procedure to widen her throat so she could breath better, because mommy and daddy wouldn’t cook her healthy food or exercise with her.
I did not say the hospital was at fault.
Hospitals very often will settle even when the case is weak because of the overwhelming cost to litigate the case. Besides, the family does have a good case for pain and suffering.
The girl is dead, the hospital staff goofed,...
You don’t know that there was a “goof” by O.R. staff. She could have had an undiagnosed genetic clotting disorder or more likely, she was extubated and because of irritation to the swollen tissues she coughed so hard a clot was dislodged. Ergo, profuse bleeding.
I spent over 30 years in the operating room and have seen many strange things happen that had nothing to do with human error by the staff.
” Their child is in this situation due to something the personnel did or didnt do.”
I interpreted this as you blaming the hospital.
It sounds odd that in cases of disputed death they won’t want to give the benefit of the doubt to a family if that family can come up with a way to deal with the body.
If they are so sure she’s dead... then for heaven sakes why do they not bring in the coroner.
Due to zipped lips all around (HIPAA etc.) about much of what’s going on, even our doctors here do not have enough data to do more than speculate.
Done shouting at everyone?
Think of a transplanted heart. It is not "hooked up" to the nervous system of the host. How does it know to keep beating? Because it has its own internal "pacemaker." (Although it may ned an actual pacemeker, too. depending.) Give a heart oxigenated blood and it will beat merrily away on its own.
I’d wager that $10,000 per day doesn’t even begin to cover it. Just sayin’..
Please note I did not initially say you were deliberately lying.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were simply using inflammatory rhetoric to try and persuade emotionally.
When you redoubled on your mischaracterization of her condition I surmised you are overtly and deliberately lying for effect.
Your claims about her brain liquifying are empty and more colorful rhetoric, meaningless.
She became “brain dead” well before Christmas. This is not the same as dying and does not make her a corpse or a cadaver.
An almost two week old corpse would be in very different condition as she is in now.
Let me ask you. Is her blood circulating? Is her bone marrow still producing blood cells?
Is she on nutrient supplement? Is her digestive system still working?
Do her kidneys still function?
Yes her blood is circulating. A machine is responsible for that. All other body functions happening are a result of the blood being circulated . . . artificially. Her brain is gone. It will not function regardless of a machine pumping her blood or not. To understand better what is happening here, I kindly suggest you research what docs are saying about this soul. I don’t think you have a grasp on the diagnosis. I’m not typing that to be mean, I really want to to gain an understanding about what is happening here. Now if she’s not brain dead, that’s a whole different story. Good night.
Your description jibes with all I have been saying.
You did not describe a corpse.
I have not argued she is not brain dead or that there is a chance of recovery.
The hospital would not allow a willing physician to do minor surgery (food tube, trach) in order to allow the girl to go to long term care. The hospital is not “only requiring what they must by law”. One long term care facility backed out when the procedure was refused.
The girl may not recover, but she is not a dead body. The hospital staff are making this more painful and difficult than it needs to be, because they can and because it is in their long-term financial interest, and I hope the family sues the socks off of them.
This young girl should never have ended up in this position after undergoing a relatively routine surgery. Of course her mother is going to fight hard to give her child every chance possible, no matter what the doctors or the "ethics committee" says.
There are too many mistakes happening in hospitals today. Many of us have had experience with hospital staff that does not care, does not pay close attention, brushes off concerns too easily, etc., and then a loved one ends up in this position because a family's concerns were not heeded. It's a parent's instinct to protect a child, and this mother does not trust the hospital now, as she has every reason not to.
We had the same experiences when my father was in the hospital. Good for you for standing strong! It is a fight at hospitals. Doctors do tend to "gang up" on people to push them into making decisions. And the doctors who are willing to try to help a patient often face challenges from other doctors.
He is a real doc. And absolutely correct.
Jesus can raise her from the dead. The docs and hospital cannot. And Jesus can do it without their help if He chooses. Its time to let go.....
Copious and repetitive 3-7 syllable words in your aggressive and vacuous personal attacks is injudicious. That is all.
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