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Marines delay female fitness plan after half fail pullup test
Fox News ^ | 01/02/2014 | Associated Press

Posted on 01/02/2014 1:58:35 PM PST by thetallguy24

More than half of female Marines in boot camp can't do three pullups, the minimum standard that was supposed to take effect with the new year, prompting the Marine Corps to delay the requirement, part of the process of equalizing physical standards to integrate women into combat jobs.

The delay rekindled sharp debate in the military on the question of whether women have the physical strength for some military jobs, as service branches move toward opening thousands of combat roles to them in 2016.

Although no new timetable has been set on the delayed physical requirement, Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos wants training officials to "continue to gather data and ensure that female Marines are provided with the best opportunity to succeed," Capt. Maureen Krebs, a Marine spokeswoman, said Thursday.

Starting with the new year, all female Marines were supposed to be able to do at least three pullups on their annual physical fitness test and eight for a perfect score. The requirement was tested in 2013 on female recruits at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island, S.C., but only 45 percent of women met the minimum, Krebs said.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: fitness; marines; military; militaryreadiness; militarywomen; obama; usmc; women
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"Walk around. Walk around, sugar britches!" - Sgt. Foley
1 posted on 01/02/2014 1:58:35 PM PST by thetallguy24
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To: thetallguy24

If I were a female who had enlisted in the USMC, I would be sure I could do plenty of pull-ups before ever arriving at boot camp. Seems like it would make life much easier.


2 posted on 01/02/2014 2:00:24 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: thetallguy24

Police & Fire already knew this.


3 posted on 01/02/2014 2:04:04 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: thetallguy24

I guess they haven’t been keeping up with the times.

We are all supposed to pretend that there is nothing a man can do that a woman can’t do.
And nothing a wonman can do that a gay boy can’t do.

There is no room for objective fact and actual results in Obama-Land.


4 posted on 01/02/2014 2:06:16 PM PST by Iron Munro (Orwell: There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.)
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To: thetallguy24

Pullups? Had infantry combat training in 1944. Had to walk/run 20 miles with full field pack, rifle, steel helmet in combat boots but no pullups. It was legs and endurance.


5 posted on 01/02/2014 2:07:36 PM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: thetallguy24

The attempt to offer ‘equality’ in the military by allowing female recruits to train for and serve in combat is running head-on into the reality that military combat requires a level of muscle strength that many females simply do not have due to the difference in body structure. Duh! I suspect that most young men seeking to enter the Marine Corps could accomplish three pullups. The military, now run by PC types, will find ‘alternative’ tests (that females can pass) to justify their acceptance into combat training. This likely won’t end well for the military or the women involved.


6 posted on 01/02/2014 2:08:46 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: NEMDF

The respective branches of the U.S. military encourage getting into shape prior to going to basic training. I’m trying to remember the source, but I read that the USMC encouraged recruits to start weight training prior to going off the Parris Island, or San Diego. I for one lost 40 pounds before I went to Lackland for basic, lot of cardio and marching with the 65 pound ruck.


7 posted on 01/02/2014 2:09:44 PM PST by Antihero101607
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To: thetallguy24

Hey just lower the standards for the poor dears...its more important they they FEEL like real Marines...who cares that a lack of upper body strength might mean they can’t help the injured out of danger...

Lowering standards worked so well in the public schools...didn’t it?

/s


8 posted on 01/02/2014 2:09:45 PM PST by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: ex-snook

In the 70s, it was slightly more than 20 miles, but we also had a PT test that included situps, pushups and a few other gyrations.

Everything else was ok, but the mile run almost killed me.


9 posted on 01/02/2014 2:11:39 PM PST by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: jimt

“...the process of equalizing physical standards to integrate women into combat jobs.”

Are there not objective dangers that demand a certain level of strength to defeat them?!


10 posted on 01/02/2014 2:14:41 PM PST by utahagen
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To: ex-snook

“Pullups? Had infantry combat training in 1944. Had to walk/run 20 miles with full field pack, rifle, steel helmet in combat boots but no pullups. It was legs and endurance.”

From US Army WWII Fitness Manual ....

TEST 1: PULLUPS

This event requires a horizontal bar. This may be made of a pipe or gymnasium horizontal bar, or other rigid horizontal support which is not over 1½ inches in diameter. The bar should be high enough to permit the performer to hang at full length without touching the ground. A height of 7 feet, 9 inches to 8 feet is recommended.

Starting Position. Hanging at full length from the bar with arms straight. The forward grasp is used with the palms turned away from the face.

Pullup

Movement. Pull up until the chin is above the level of the bar. Then lower the body until elbows are completely straight. Continue for as many repetitions as possible.

Instructions. The men should be told that it is permissible to raise the legs and flex the hips when pulling up but not to kick or execute a jerking motion with trunk or legs. The body must be kept from swinging. The chin must be raised above the bar. The arms must be completely straight at the bottom of the movement.

Administration and Scoring. Each time the performer pulls his chin above the bar in correct form, he is given credit for one pullup. He is not credited with a pullup if he fails to raise his chin above the level of the bar or if he stops to rest. If the performer does not straighten his arms at the bottom of a movement, if he kicks or jerks, only half a pullup will be counted. If there are four half-pullups, the performer should be stopped and retested later. If the performer starts to swing, the judge should stop the swinging with his hands. Some such aid as a resin-bag or a cake of magnesium carbonate should be available to prevent the hands from slipping.


11 posted on 01/02/2014 2:14:54 PM PST by TexasGator
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To: Adder

Don’t you love outcome based education for Marines? lol


12 posted on 01/02/2014 2:21:55 PM PST by thetallguy24
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To: TexasGator

Interesting. Do you think the manual means that if you couldn’t pass the PT, you would not be sent to combat duty?


13 posted on 01/02/2014 2:22:03 PM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: thetallguy24
Commandant Gen. James Amos wants training officials to "continue to
gather data and ensure that female Marines are provided with the best
opportunity to succeed," Capt. Maureen Krebs, a Marine spokeswoman said

"Pullups?? That's like ... WORK!"

14 posted on 01/02/2014 2:25:25 PM PST by mikrofon (Maynard G.)
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To: ex-snook

20 is excellant, 6 is poor but it doesn’t say what is pass/fail. I suspect it is based on a ‘sum’ of the eight required tests.


15 posted on 01/02/2014 2:26:05 PM PST by TexasGator
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To: thetallguy24

When I was in basic training in the late 50s we had to do 12 pull-ups in good form before we got breakfast.

Probably some failed the test but I cannot recall seeing many not do it. Hunger does that to a man.


16 posted on 01/02/2014 2:36:03 PM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: thetallguy24

They will now start lowering the standards.


17 posted on 01/02/2014 2:37:06 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Antihero101607

A series of my son’s friends went into USMC over a period of about a year and a half or so, five altogether. The fifth one in was the star of his recruit class, due to he had taken all of the advice the other four had for him before boot camp.


18 posted on 01/02/2014 2:38:08 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: TexasGator

I was a very good athlete in college. I don’t remember how many pull ups I could do but it was probably over 20.

A few years after I got married and put on a few pounds, my wife and I were in a park and I noticed a chin up bar. I grabbed it, relaxed and then tried to do a pull up.

To my everlasting irritation, I could not do one.


19 posted on 01/02/2014 2:39:35 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: yarddog

“A few years after I got married and put on a few pounds, my wife and I were in a park and I noticed a chin up bar. I grabbed it, relaxed and then tried to do a pull up.”

Just wait till you go to the park with the grandkids ....


20 posted on 01/02/2014 2:45:06 PM PST by TexasGator
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To: Adder
Hey just lower the standards for the poor dears...its more important they they FEEL like real Marines...

Rush talked about the dumbing down of our country today related to school sports, test scores and the logic of some NFL officiating.

21 posted on 01/02/2014 2:45:47 PM PST by QT3.14 (Anagram: PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA = An Arab Backed Imposter)
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To: TexasGator
Fitness standards vary for each service and with different events. As a whole the Marine corps has higher standards compared to other services.

The pullup isn't even a measured or tested event in the Army except for different schools, ie Ranger, Scuba.

22 posted on 01/02/2014 2:46:47 PM PST by Theoria (End Socialism : No more GOP and Dem candidates)
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To: thetallguy24

i’m sure all the male marines are feeling just super about this. /s


23 posted on 01/02/2014 2:47:10 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: TexasGator

My Grandchildren already know I am in bad shape. I was showing them some of my old college clippings and they were surprised the guy in the pictures was me.


24 posted on 01/02/2014 2:50:01 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: thetallguy24

Whereas virtually all combat roles are now open to women, now therefore the Selective Service Act is in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution. Scrap the whole thing and use the savings to reinstate what the military has lost.


25 posted on 01/02/2014 2:53:39 PM PST by NonValueAdded (It's not the penalty, it's the lack of coverage on 1 Jan. Think about it.)
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To: GeronL
And widening the age range for MEN to sign up for the draft
while expanding FEDGUVINC ability to go after those who MEN who don't.

Equal rights -not equal responsibilities.

26 posted on 01/02/2014 2:55:34 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: TexasGator

Basic training in WWII must have been pretty severe. I remember my Father saying they lost two. One had just passed him in a run when he keeled over dead.

He was just an ordinary soldier, not any kind of elite tho he did get to see a lot of interesting things in Europe.


27 posted on 01/02/2014 2:58:47 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: thetallguy24

Huh?
.I thought those woos’z were given an exemption from pullups and now they’ve failed at nothing???

Don’t

Get

It


28 posted on 01/02/2014 3:00:51 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Iron Munro

I have no problem with females fighting in combat units as Marines, just create units that are all female, not coed. The only weight they should have to be able to lift is whatever the heaviest female member weighs. Easy peasy.


29 posted on 01/02/2014 3:05:41 PM PST by punknpuss
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To: Antihero101607

Good idea, just for self defense. We punished the slackers when we ran.


30 posted on 01/02/2014 3:18:44 PM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Theoria
The pullup isn't even a measured or tested event in the Army...

I wondered how many avoided service in Viet Nam because they couldn't do 3 pull-ups.

31 posted on 01/02/2014 3:21:07 PM PST by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: gundog
Shrug. Dunno.

Army does pushups. USMC pullups. Both fought in Iraq and Afghanistan and every hellhole here and there.

32 posted on 01/02/2014 3:27:00 PM PST by Theoria (End Socialism : No more GOP and Dem candidates)
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To: All
Wear Pajamas.
Drink Hot Chocolate.
Talk about being equal for combat.

#GetTalking
Gunny∅bama.com/talk

33 posted on 01/02/2014 3:27:05 PM PST by QT3.14 (Anagram: PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA = An Arab Backed Imposter)
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To: thetallguy24

The only way to fix this is to require all females under the age of 60 to register with The Selective Service. It’s only fair.


34 posted on 01/02/2014 3:36:52 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: GeronL

I am not in favour of women in combat at all.

I don’t think they belong there for a variety of reasons.

The lowering of the standards is just the start.


35 posted on 01/02/2014 3:58:19 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: yarddog

no such thing as an ordinary soldier, combat arms is combat arms.


36 posted on 01/02/2014 3:59:37 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: ex-snook

Ok, no test for upper body strength? Push-ups? Legs are only a portion of the equation.


37 posted on 01/02/2014 4:01:55 PM PST by TheGunny
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To: Bulwyf

I agree with you.


38 posted on 01/02/2014 4:07:47 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: TexasGator

This makes me sick.

I’m 43 and a bit overweight at 210lbs.

I can still do 15 pullups and try to do it at least once a week and 75 push ups that I usually do once a week as well.

I’m not in the best of shape. This is just sad.


39 posted on 01/02/2014 4:08:42 PM PST by Carbonsteel
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To: Bulwyf

Those were surely interesting times. Incredible events taking place all the time. Traveling across Europe.

Also a bit of danger and hard work.


40 posted on 01/02/2014 4:09:29 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: thetallguy24

Bookmark


41 posted on 01/02/2014 4:13:36 PM PST by aquila48
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To: thetallguy24

For those that said the Marines will just have to dumb this down. Well, previously the Women Marines had to do a “Flex Arm Hang” which consisted of getting your chin above the pullup bar and holding it above it for some length of time without resting it on the pullup bar. It was a time scored event. In other words, if you could hold it up there for 30 seconds you got one score. If you held it up there for 40 seconds you got a higher score etc... So in fact if they dumbed it back down, my suspicion is that it would just go back to this.

What’s not mentioned in this article is the fact that if you only did 3 pullups, you most likely would still not pass the physical fitness test. That’s the minimum for the pullups, but there’s a minimum score for the overall test and if you only do 3 you are going to have a real hard time getting to the minimum score for the PFT. So these women have a lot longer way to go than 3 pullups most likely. That is, if one pullup for women counts the same as one pullup for men (five points).

Lastly, spending a career in the Marines with a large part of it in the infantry, I will say that I have never personally met a woman who could physically accomplish what is required of a combat infantryman. Doing hikes anywhere from 15 - 25 miles with a pack weighing 50 pounds, plus helmet, flack, rifle and any other extras. Some of those extras could be an M-16 (19.2 pounds), 81 mm mortar baseplate (25 pounds) radio (about 15 pounds), mortars, spare barrel bags etc. In the end, you can be loaded down with around 80 pounds. This is not to mention specialized training like jumps, mountain warfare, desert warfare, rubber boat raids etc.. All of it extremely physically demanding.


42 posted on 01/02/2014 4:23:18 PM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: thetallguy24

Somehow female and Marine seems to be oxymoronic, or is that just me?


43 posted on 01/02/2014 4:23:50 PM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Have a wonderful day!)
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To: Carbonsteel
"This is just sad."

Women on average are just not as strong as men in the upper body. Physically they are just built different. Don't blame the women that can't pass this test. Blame the idiots in Washington who believe men and women are the same. That is what is sad.
44 posted on 01/02/2014 4:25:31 PM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: NEMDF

HAHAAHA UH..YES...WHAT’S OBVIOUS TO US SMART GUYS IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION TO UDDERS....OH WELL...


45 posted on 01/02/2014 4:27:47 PM PST by jimsin
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To: All
"Some of those extras could be an M-16 (19.2 pounds)"

Sorry, meant to say M-60 was 19.2 pounds. Don't know about the new machine gun (M-240) but I imagine it is similar. Hopefully it performs better.
46 posted on 01/02/2014 4:28:52 PM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: TexasGator
UHH..SEMPER FI DO OR DIE OR SOMETHING...


47 posted on 01/02/2014 4:33:50 PM PST by jimsin
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To: MIchaelTArchangel

YAAAAS THAT DOES SEEM STRANGE M/TA CANT SAY AS I BUY INTO THAT CONFLATION MYSELF....


48 posted on 01/02/2014 4:35:54 PM PST by jimsin
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To: thetallguy24

Don’t you love outcome based education for Marines? lol

YEASAAS TTG...I’M BETTIN EVERY ENEMY OF THE REPUBLIC~ WORLD WIDE ~ IS EMBOLDENED BY THIS TURN OF EVENTS....JUST SAYIN’


49 posted on 01/02/2014 4:38:34 PM PST by jimsin
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To: thetallguy24

On 20 November 1943, during the horrific fighting on Betio atoll during the battle of Tarawa, two Japanese tanks mounted a counterattack against the fragile Marine toehold on Red Beach 3. The Marines were huddled there at the base of a seawall in the face of withering fire from Admiral Keiji Shibasaki’s fanatical Japanese Naval Landing Force defenders who were slaughtering hundreds of their comrades in Betio Lagoon during 76 hours of some of the most savage fighting in the history not only of the Marines, but the US armed forces.

Marine anti-tank gun crews were trying to figure out how to get their 912 lb 37MM M3 antitank guns over the 7 foot plus seawall. The battery commander ordered his 5 man crews to LIFT them over. Being Marines who always obeyed even seemingly impossible orders, they did EXACTLY that and promptly knocked out the tanks. They then engaged several enemy bunkers whose dual purpose guns were repeatedly knocking out the approaching landing craft and put them out of action. Finally they routed a local counter attack of 200 or so Japanese against the south shore of Red Beach 3 with canister shot, all of this at a critical and precarious point in the landing.

Whats that about upper body strength being not as important in modern warfare anymore and that women are just as likely to be able to do the job of combat infantry?


50 posted on 01/02/2014 5:32:29 PM PST by DMZFrank
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