Skip to comments.There Are Irreconciliable Differences Between Liberty-Loving Americans and Leftists
Posted on 01/02/2014 6:41:50 PM PST by markomalley
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Oh, they certainly would lose, if they ever embarked upon that fight. Personally, I don't think they have what it takes to even start it. They've simply got the 'wrong stuff' for it.
I agree, but as someone pointed out, they’ll try whatever they think will work.
I know, and it's why I love you, brother. We can argue about stuff all day long without getting a hate on.
I wouldn't rule out the scenario you described in your last post, but in looking at what a descent into open hostilities would bring out on both sides, it's all too apparent to me that we'd instantly see a re-emergence of a part of the American character that hasn't been unleashed since WW II.
We simply haven't had our mettle tested in such a way for so long, that many have come to believe that it no longer exists. Well, it does exist, just as it does for any sovereign people. It takes a threat of real extermination to bring it out, but out it will come, if that threat presents itself.
When I examine this issue, I always come back to the basics, the most important of which, is, you have a very large population of decent citizens who are law abiding, productive, sincere, religious (for the most part), self reliant, industrious, perceptive, and honorable.
These people are also strongly imbued with a sense of rightness about their and their country's place in history. They have a strong sense (backed up by real world observations) of the correctness of their mutually held considerations about their way of life and the foundational aspects of their nation.
These tens of millions are the bedrock upon which the rest of the nation stands, and are the force which propels the economic engine of prosperity and success in this country.
They're also armed to the teeth.
Push such a population of people over the edge, and you've got a world class problem on your hands. Once driven to anger, they won't rest until everything in the culture has been put back to rights, as they see it.
We simply have truth and right on our side. Those things are more powerful than any force on earth. Any effort to forcibly undo them is doomed to failure.
By any means necessary.
I pretty much agree with your post. I just dont have the faith in my fellow man that you do.
Now I totally agree about most being good people and of character reemerging. That said, I look out across the fruited plane and see a lot of fruits. They have never been this close to the brass ring. They are seeing the result of God bashing,communist teaching and the rest of the 1963 Communist goals come to fruition in a MASSIVE number of people who lack any sense of morality, character or love of country. They are literal human garbage of all shapes sizes and colors that worship “ME”. not me as in Normie (Though as my writings clearly show I am worthy of such praise ;) but the ME that is an individual just like all their friends. The ME that pots them as Island of one Gods in their own pantheon under the watchful and loving gaze of Gaia the Magnificent (And Barry is her Prophet...Allah Snackbar). They are smarter than you, better people than you, fighting for greater good than you and thus superior to you. Just ask them Windy. You suck. So do I.
But we all know that. What I think is missing from the equation is the acceptance of just how evil they are. Like the Nazis, they are so convinced of their possition, they will likk you to win the arguement. No, the pajamaboy at the espresso machine won’t do it personally. But he will attend the Wisconson’ish anti union rally in your town, occupy your buildings and provide the ‘moral’ courage, food, shelter and escape vehicle to the ALF nutcase who will, then show up at the espresso machine tomorrow with a smug look of happiness that Dave Foreman Junior planted a bomb at the local VFW. And his meekness will leave him out of suspicion time after time because ‘well he’s not the violent type’.
True. But he haZ a FriendZ who are. And he knows their phone number. Having had ALF whackjobs chase me around the desert and pass around (incorrect) home info for me during my Off-Road.com years showed me just how dangerous the meek ones ‘can’ be. They are a HUGE part of every totaliarian wet dream. The shock troops behind the shock troops. And very dangerous.
In the end, I am convinced that the scenario will play out as it has so many times before. I just pray to God that there are more of the people in your post than mine so that we can minimize the hell that’s unleashed, faster.
There are more of us, than there are of them, Normie. Every poll that has ever been run on the question bears that out. Logic also dictates that if there were more of them than there are of us, the nation would have imploded economically long ago. It hasn't, which indicates that most people are still on the wagon pulling side of the equation.
But let's go back to the questions posed by Walter Williams in the article above. How are the good and decent people of this country going to respond to the confluence of events that are irrevocably overtaking this country? As he brilliantly deduced, there are only four logical responses to the absolute tyranny that's on its way.
Without restating them, I can see only two that are likely (though the possibility exists for them all). The first is political dis-unification, or, secession by several red states. The second is a full scale rebellion by the people.
Of the two, secession is the more likely, because it promises a peaceful political solution to the tension of our divisions. It would be up to the blue states to simply accept it, or respond to it with force. Like King George III before them, I think the blue states would be shocked and amazed by the resolve of the red states to be free of their grip, and would soon discover that the resolve of the red states also translates into deadly reaction on their part.
Personally, I don't believe that they'll find the political or even cultural will to go that far to stop us. There'd no doubt be a great deal of social turmoil and dislocation caused by secession, but I believe that a mobilized citizenry and their appointed state militias would keep a handle on the worst of it.
What I don't think we'd see, is a military response from Washington. Frankly, the political pressure for a non-violent response is much more evident in today's cultural climate. Nations around the world would condemn the U.S. in the worst ways imaginable, if they chose to launch a military campaign against a peaceful political separation of states.
Sure there are mor of us gross. but what about the net? How many of that number would do squat other than cower in their corner afraid to offend someone and lose their flatscreen?
Seriously. People that cant stand up for something like their own principles on an internet forum because they are aftaid they might look extreme aren’t gonna go get the 12 gauge any time soon. We can look to Germany, my half ancestors for what happens in a real world scenario when liberals march. They find some excuse to join the party.
If I have to put a number on it, I would look at our own little microcosom right here. Right off the bat, everyone was going to neverevernever vote for that radical liberal babykiller Mitt Romney. As the primary approached, some people would vote for that liberal mitt Romney. After the primary, half of FR was onboard with the Lesser Evil Mit Romney. As the election approached, 3/4 of the people were either remaining silent or attacking everyone in sight that refused to get on board the the only thing that could save us from liberal baby killer Barry Soetero.
My how things come full circle.
As I asked earlier as a generalization...Are you personally willing to bet your life and the lives of your family that people that cannot even cast a nameless and faceless vote for what they claim to believe in, will have your back when the SHTF?
Considering the only people Barry attacks are people against his interests and considering that the UN goes to bat for or at least only writes stern letters against him, I don’t think they have an issue helping to eliminate a bunch of hated cristians and others who won’t play ball. I mean they do it all the time in other parts of the world.
Sure we got guns. They have plenty of cannon foder to give us targets. And they will with promises of new homelands and other such crap. Just like they did in Africa in more than one country there.
I think we have to split the country for the reasons stated in the article and more. To me it is rediculously obvious that one way or another, its coming. But it will be a fight and we have more problems with Vichy idiots than we will with the left. If we survive them, and their insistance on compromise, lesser evil and often flat out cowardice, the rest will go quick.
Yikes .. that's quite a stroke, bloke .. congrats ! d:^)
It's worth clarifying -- I'm not the bloke. I'm the bird.
The difference, the left wants us to lose in Afghanistan and Iraq. They couldn't lose against us. Think of their history how ruthless the left actually are. National Socialism, communism and so on.
Don't ever underestimate their cruelty
Well congrats regardless .. lol .. but at 185, unless he was 5' nuthin, at least he wasn't much of a grocery expense !
That’s the core of it. Modern people on the right want to believe that the past is past and that it cant happen again much less here.
Now Windy knows they are evil but I dont think most of the actual real conservatives you talk to outside fourms like this do. They say it occasionally, but yet even here on FR I dont think people really grasp it and fall back to the belief that everyone has some good in them.
No. Everyone does not. Like the movie line, in Batman, some people just want to watch the world burn. In this case, some people just want to see America burn and their hated enemies, right wingers, stricken from the face of the earth. Until people remember history, they will forever repeat it.
Abusive boyfriends don't let their girl friends just peacefully walk out on them. They usually end up and threaten, bully or beat them up to stop them. As a last resort, some will kill them rather than let them out of the relationship. A restraining order from a judge is very often useless. Sometimes it takes a .38 special in the girl friend's hand to stop it.
That is the sort of relationship in which we (the abusive girl friends) find ourselves today. The only question is, what sort of counter coercion is it likely to take to leave without serious or fatal damage?
True liberalism won in the US revolutionary war which was a great victory. It failed for a number of reasons.
But There is only one case that I am aware of the reverse and works to this day. Singapore.
In the (first) American revolution, only 3% of the colonists ever shouldered a rifle and fired upon the British, and about a third of the colonists unwaveringly supported the cause of independence.
Should this country ever come to a similar place, I would expect those percentages to be even higher because we're a long established country now. People wouldn't be fighting for the idea of a homeland all their own -- they'd be fighting to preserve and protect the real thing.
If I had to give it a conservative guess, I would figure that no fewer than 10% would stand in direct defiance to tyranny, while perhaps 50% or more would openly support them. I also believe that those numbers are well known to the powers-that-be, which is another reason they haven't attempted anything more aggressive with us so far.
30 million riflemen is more than any country's military can contend with. Not even the combined military forces of the planet could stand against such a force.
Yeah, they're mighty 'brave' against unarmed people. It's a little different when they're faced with an armed population.
Not counting the beer and wine...
The 3% of yesteryear were people without the excuses that I hear all the time. “My house, my car, My kids college my PS4”. Now to be sure, the RevWar people put their material goods on the line and many lost them. Would they today? I go back to my question earlier. How many actual people right here on FR would you honestly trust to have your and your famlies back?
Whatever that number, it would be far higher than the general population. And nowhere near 50%. You might START with the 50% number until the first examples were made of the 10% willing to stand firm. After word spread of the first SWAT raids or the first big flash mob assaults, you would QUICKLY hear “Hey I got a wife and kids man...”
And then you’re at about MAYBE with luck, 20% perephrial support. And thats after the first round of brownshirts.
All you have to do is look at Germany. They were pounded down after WW1 by the terms of the treaty/sanctions and we have been pounded down by Obama and the nonstop media blitz against everything America stands for. And the people of that era were far stronger willed. Look at today’s ‘average’ American. Or try to without puking. Pussified, more concerned with killing their own babies, banning Christmas plays in grade school...OR ALLOWING IT TO GO ON, than lifting a finger to stop it.
I just do not see how anyone counts on them for support. Most will go Vichy to keep their material goods and live under the new order than do squat.
Yes, there are good people left. Solid, rugged and determined. But on the whole, person for person the American of today is the faintest fraction of his ancestor.
Most will not fight. Most will however reap the benefits of those who will. Put another way, This is Vietnam on a grand scale.
To the liberal, limp-wristed, wimp, PC crowd, I would say:
“....you all may go to hell, and I will go to Texas...”
“...Come and Take IT...”
Most will not fight. Most will however reap the benefits of those who will.
Brother, I'm really sorry to see that you have such a bleak outlook on our people. I really am. I don't know what else I can say to convince you that it's not as bad as you perceive.
I guess it boils down to a glass half full / empty view of where we are as a people.
For the record, I don't base my assertions about where our people are at on faith. It's what I see in front of me every day. The spirit of rebellion is alive in this country and growing all the time. There's a real hunger to preserve and protect what's best about our nation and its culture among us. I simply note and acknowledge that it's there, and it gives me hope.
Well the reason my outlook is so bleak is because it is the verifiable truth.
There are 350 million people in America. How many ever in their lives have taken any action other than a web post to change the circumstance of the country? I mean attend a rally. Or run for a school board. Or show up at a town hall meeting and demand answers and accountability for the BS in their small town?
How many ever picketed an abortion clinic, denied access to an eco terrorist to a logging site, rode their politicians like the Lone Ranger on Silver during a campaign stop?
How many ever did their own research and took action against their local paper/media outlet to prove one BS storu or another was in fact BS? How many ever did even the most basic of the responsibilities as an American to safeguard their rights and freedoms? Not many out of 350 MILLION people.
They can’t even give up their cable TV when they admit their money goes to fund leftism and the destruction of their country. Football is far to important. Reality shows are too important. Movies are too important. Those are the people that are going to rise up against rioting liberals and the descendants of Stalin and Mao? Thats why I have a negative outlook on our people. they gave me every reason to have one. The facts are what they are Windy. Everything above is true.
there are a fraction of us that wont take it. Most will choose the lesser evil.
It's obvious we view history differently (to clarify - leftists = statists).
Mao killed over 60 million in various ways - most in my lifetime. Add in the other 20th century statists and the number dead eclipses 150 million.
If you read this thread, Freepers point out that there has been a successful pogrom of senior military leaders during the ObaMao tenure.
Statists gush "compassion", but in actuality, they have no regard for human life. Abortion, slavery, starvation, war, terrorism... they worship man, not God. They are not afraid to terminate life. They have a large quantity of highly trained, funded, equipped, domestic and international "useful idiots" from multiple taxpayer entities to carry out their assassinations.
And all of their victims were disarmed. I rest my case.
... sigh ....
I can't dispute your observations. I've seen all that too, but I've also seen a resurgence in conservative activism and patriotic push-back that is unlike anything I've ever seen in this life. That, too, is real.
We build an imperfect world with broken straws, my friend. All we can do is keep on keeping on. We and those who think like we do, will hold fast to our deepest held convictions while we do what we can to add our shoulders to the wheel.
As conditions in this country worsen, I expect more to be jolted out of their slumber and repose by the pain those conditions will bring. One day (soon?) we'll have lots more company.
I tell ya brother, yer screwed. I'll never stop pouring sunshine on you :-)
It takes way more than two, with hundreds of millions of Americans here.
Could you pour beer instead? Because I’m pondering getting back into drinking after a 20 year break ;) Genesee please...no wait. Thats New Yuck beer. Scratch that.
Tecate?. Nope. don’t wanna fund illegals either.
Maybe I’ll build a still. Nope. Im in AZ. Nothing to mash.
If you can find a feed store, you'll have a source for all the grain you'll need to whip up a proper batch of home made whiskey
Come on out to my place and I'll show ya how ;-)
Unfortunately we here in the upper midwest (MN- Al Franken, Crazy Eyes Mark Dayton, WI-lesbian senator Tammy Baldwin, crazy unions, IL - Dirty Dick Durbin, Rahm Emanuel, Jesse Jackson) are but a few of the deranged liberal crazies in these states. We've got the same 50% deranged liberals vs 50% of nominally good conservative patriots. We would have a battle on our hands (that's ok, so be it) if or when we would ever try to divorce or secede from the ferociously evil socialist-fascist-communisty lefties.
You nailed it on the head. Exactly the same thoughts I have... see me post #129
This is a great thread, with many fine, outstanding posts, including yours.
Yes, why give these 0dumb0sh_t demoCRAP liberal bastards anything? Other than GTFO, go live in your peoples paradises of N Korea, Cuba or Venezuela, and never come back! (and take 0dumb0sh_t with you)!
I would say the best example of how they kill is what took place at Waco. For a moment just assume the Davidians were all nuts (which they were not) the BATF intentionally killed the 'hostages' (children).
There was no remorse or proper investigation. These people are bloody killers. Don't you forget that.
They've never dared to attempt to subjugate an armed populace. Like us. Don't you forget that.
The communism and National socialists didn’t subjugate their people? Huh?
Actually there are a couple here. They have them to feed the sheep. Hmmm...Sheep....
Wait a sec. Nevermind. I got a better idea. ;)
‘Technically’ they did. They were an arme populace in the beginning, then disarmed as part of / early in the takeover as is happening here now.
But in the sense you mean, that’s true. They havent.
Read it again. I said that the Commies and Nazis never subjugated an ARMED people.
I don't think any of us has any doubt that we'd already be living under a full-blown Socialist system if we weren't armed. Those western countries that have been disarmed, are steadily moving in the direction of totalitarian Socialist government because their people lack the means to effectively resist such changes.
The left is trying to do it here too, but they're forced to tread lightly because of the potential for armed rebellion.
Look at the response to the accelerated moves of the current Socialist regime. Gun sales here are at record levels, and they jump every time the regime violates a basic component of the Constitution. There's a lesson to be learned in that.
The track of history shows that every Communist regime has followed this sequence, in relation to subjugating a country:
1. Gun registration
Up until the point where all the guns are surrendered, it's all politics. Once that's accomplished, there's no need for a political structure anymore, and one party becomes the all dominant force which rules the land. Dictatorship is secured, and all dissent is crushed through violence and murder.
Western countries that have been disarmed are at the mercy of their ruling political class. I personally don't see how they can avoid eventually descending into totalitarian barbarism, because 'evil never sleeps'.
They always will. Man is by nature an aggressor. Religion helped hold back that instinct by attaching morality to action. Without it, as in all the Socialist/Communist controlled countries, there is no difference between a human life and a boat anchor. Humans are a thing to serve a purpose. When it serves no or the wrong purpose, you replace/get rid of it.
Since they are unburdened by morality, the logical move is for Socialist/Communist leaders to remove the possibility of resistance to their rule. And what better way than disarming your potential problem?
Then there is the 1984 aspect where you start outlawing/banning words until the mere ideas of resistance can’t even be formed in the human mind since there are no words to explain a given concept.
Together they show the philosophies of every tyrannical regime in history.
That was brilliant, my brother. Short, concise, and straight to the core definition of tyranny.
Save that, please. It’s worth expanding into a larger work.
Why thank you kind sir. But honestly I don’t think it’s brilliant, I just see it as thinking an issue through to logical conclusion and associating relevant issues.
But I’ll take the kudos with a smile ;)
Thank you for an excellent thread, FRiends.
I see truth in both your posts/viewpoints and I think the difference has to do, again, with the different cultures in different areas of the country.
Growing up in in conservative N. Texas like Windflier, I definitely see the difference in optimism and hope vs. those conservatives who live in more leftist States. Not that anyone here would deny we have a grueling uphill battle, whether it remains political, or moves on to nulification,secession, or even more serious scenarios. But we all have an unreal uphill battle unless we get some state and local leaders brave enough to take the first step on standing up to, and nullifying the actions of, this tyrant’s regime.
Two New Executive Orders Will Change Who Can Buy Guns
Mashable ^ | January 3, 2014 | Colin Daileda
Posted on Fri Jan 03 2014 16:57:42 GMT-0600 (CST) by lbryce
The White House issued two executive actions on Friday that aim to beef up background checks for would-be gun buyers and keep the weapons away from those at risk of harming themselves or others.
The first order, proposed by the Department of Justice, more clearly defines who cannot possess a handgun under federal law due to mental health issues. It is designed to clarify the language of the current law by providing better definitions for phrases like what it means to be “committed to a mental institution.” This, in turn, will provide a more well-rounded picture of a potential buyer’s mental health for the background check to determine whether a purchase should be allowed.
The second executive action concerns privacy laws associated with the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. States have complained that individual privacy protections have made it difficult for them to report relevant mental health information to their respective background check systems, which they fear could lead to guns falling into dangerous hands. The proposed change would allow states to relay “limited” tidbits of information that they feel should be included in background checks. The executive order stresses that it will not prevent everyone with mental health concerns from buying guns, and will not require buyers to report “routine mental health care.”
Too many Americans have been severely injured....
See link for more.
That thought has sort of been in the back of my mind, but I think you've got your finger on one of the reasons we often see such fatigue and demoralization among our conservative friends.
As someone who spent decades behind enemy lines in Southern California, I know what it's like to be surrounded by liberal idiocy. It can, and does, take a toll on ones outlook on things. Even when there's good news abounding, it can be hard to see beyond the concrete signs of decay right outside your door.
Great observation, my friend.
Finland communist mostly one or two bombing runs by the Nazi's. Serbia Nazi's and Islam.
I believe Poland should be on that list as well.
“Americans have several options. We can like sheep submit to those who have contempt for liberty and our Constitution. We can resist, fight and risk bloodshed and death in an attempt to force America’s tyrants to respect our liberties and Constitution. A superior alternative is to find a way to peaceably separate into states whose citizens respect liberty and the Constitution. My personal preference is a restoration of the constitutional values of limited government that made us a great nation.”
That’s incredibly naive. Any attempt to restore the Constitution will result in bloodshed. Any attempt to separate the states will result in bloodshed. “The State” has grown far too powerful to fight unless a good number of the military reject “the State” and join us. (Oh yea, “the State” can read every word we type, time to go back to typewriters and pamphlets handed out under the Liberty Tree.)
I fear that there will be a mild turnover in 2014 elections and the sheep will go back to sleep.
We can also rebuild. Survive the scrapping, and rebuild. Give that a thought. It may be best to let these great minds, run fully amok- and then, fully rebuild.
Leftists will never allow us outside of their grip.
They have no p[ower outside of the city, in the rural and wilderness areas. When they go out there, they cannot cope.
So its easy to get away from them.
All we need to do is fence them into the cities and keep them there.
There are lots of recent examples of the left's commitment to their causes.
Staging the Winsconsin statehouse protest was wrongheaded and annoying but it took guts.
OWS camping out in public spaces for months on end was foolish and a blight, but it took guts.
Getting arrested protesting outside the Sudenese embassy in WDC took guts, and there are many more examples.
So no, I don't think a 'lack of guts' is any kind of problem for the left.
You're talking about street protests and such, which isn't so much a display of "guts" (as I put it), but more a display of passionate commitment to their pet social causes.
Our side has displayed the same level of commitment to social causes that matter to us. Note the many Tea Party rallies, and Overpasses protests in the last few years.
No, when I say "guts", I'm referring to the sort of backbone and courage it takes to fight a real war. The left in the west has shown time and time again that they don't have the stomach to face a determined foe with unflinching grit and determination.
Look at every liberal administration in the western world since 1945, and you can't find a single one that ever conducted a military campaign that was designed and executed with the sort of no-holds-barred aggression which is required to achieve real victory. Not one.
Observe how western liberal governments conduct their international diplomacy during peacetime. They ordinarily bend over backwards to appease violent dictators and murderous regimes, while turning their backs on their real allies. Their friends in the press and academia are no different, and usually play the part of spinmeisters and propagandists for the yellow bellied cowards in government.
In short, the political left can't throw a punch and mean it. If the political right ever stood on their hind legs and acted like men, the left would back right down. It's what they do when they're confronted by real anger and opposition.
And if a day should ever come when several states secede from the union, you can bet your bottom dollar that the weasels running the feral government in Washington won't have the guts to execute a military campaign to squash it through force. Not if they're convinced that the red states will fight back with everything they've got.
They're really good at killing defenseless women and children and unarmed men, but they shrink in the face of a well armed and determined enemy.