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There Are Irreconciliable Differences Between Liberty-Loving Americans and Leftists
Newsbusters ^ | 1/2/2014 | Walter E. Williams

Posted on 01/02/2014 6:41:50 PM PST by markomalley

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To: M Kehoe; Eaker; Absolutely Nobama; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ...
Thanks M.Kehoe for the heads up!

CWII Ping!

151 posted on 01/06/2014 6:07:12 AM PST by Jack Black ( Disarmament of a targeted group is one of the surest early warning signs of future genocide.)
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To: markomalley

Peaceful separation is the only viable option, otherwise, massive bloodshed involving millions must occur.

152 posted on 01/06/2014 6:22:20 AM PST by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

“Problem is that without big changes that reign in all three branches of government, that isn’t going to happen. The two solutions I see are a constitutional convention and secession.”

The inevitable result to a constitutional convention and secession would be U.S. Civil War II.

You do understand that the Federals would start shooting if any states - or group of states - peacefully departed the Union?

This has been established by the events of 1861 to 1865, and the Feds would consider the opposition to be traitors.

Treason can be punished by death under the federal statutes.

Think well my friends before you cross the Rubicon into civil war!

153 posted on 01/06/2014 6:42:30 AM PST by Darin1948
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To: greene66

The only problem with a “split” is that states - and even parts of states - will be scattered piecemeal all over the map. Where would NM fit, with AZ and TX on either side? What about the large cities in Conservative states (Austin & Houston in TX, Atlanta in GA, Miami in FL, etc.)? What do you do with RINOs?

The answer is relocating millions of people along philosophical lines. Short of that, CWII is becoming an increasingly viable solution.

154 posted on 01/06/2014 7:26:46 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: Jack Black

Thanks for the ping.

155 posted on 01/06/2014 7:55:00 AM PST by Vor Lady
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To: Darin1948

A Convention of the states could propose Amendments that would strip power from the Federal government, and return that power to the states or people where it belongs.
This would include amendments allowing STATE legislatures to impeach and remove Federal officials including representatives and Federal judges.

The following is from an email exchange between Michael Farris (Founder and President of Patrick Henry College, HSLDA, and the Convention of States project) and a state representative.

Thanks so much for your kind letter. I am happy to answer your questions.

Your first question:

1. “My greatest concern is that so few public officials seem to know the
importance of the existing U.S. Constitution, and our society is so
disconnected from the history and principles that delivered this nation to
greatness. By opening the Constitution to such an ignorant population do we
risk much more than we stand to gain?”

The short answer is that there is no realistic risk anything bad will happen as a result of a Convention of States. We will either do something good (or even very good), or we will accomplish nothing at all.

The reason I say this arises from the following chain of reasoning:

1. Washington, DC, is utterly broken.

2. Washington, DC, will never voluntarily relinquish power.

3. If we allow Washington, DC, to continue on its current course of big government, it will utterly destroy American liberty. Debt is the most tangible method of destruction. But big government complete with spying on the American public, the improper use of executive orders, over-regulation, etc., etc., will most certainly destroy American liberty relatively soon.

4. We must save liberty before it is too late.

5. Trying to elect more conservatives to Washington, DC, as a method of fixing this problem hasn’t worked. Even when we have had our best leaders there, they have been unable or unwilling to make the kind of structural changes necessary to save American liberty. Even Ronald Reagan could not deliver on his promise to eliminate the U.S. Department of Education.

6. The Founders gave us Article V for the very purpose of creating structural changes when the federal government abuses its power.

7. Even the anti-federalists of that generation who had opposed the adoption of the Constitution were not afraid to use Article V. The Virginia General Assembly, which was controlled by the anti-federalists, voted to apply for an Article V Convention, which they called a Convention of States, in the very first session of Congress under the Constitution. They wanted the Bill of Rights and other amendments suggested in the Virginia convention to ratify the Constitution.

8. The argument that we would be “opening up” the Constitution in a Convention of States under Article V is not correct. This argument is normally premised on an inaccurate understanding of the Constitutional Convention itself. People claim that the delegates were sent there merely to amend the Articles of Confederation, but once the subject was “opened up” they rewrote the Constitution. (As an aside, those who contend that the Constitution was illegally adopted usually call themselves “constitutionalists.” It is utterly inconsistent to claim to be a constitutionalist and to believe it was illegal from the get-go. It is like saying that George Washington was a great hero but he was also a British spy.) This argument is based on a misrepresentation of history, as I explain here. The 1787 Covention was not a “runaway,” and, therefore, there is no reason to fear it will “happen again.”

9. Every state legislature in the union, other than Hawaii, has at one time or another applied for a Convention of States. There have been over 400 such applications, yet we have never had a convention. Why not? Because there is a “unified subject rule.” The applications must aggregate to 2/3rds of the states (currently 34 states) and MUST BE called for the same purpose. We have never had 2/3rds of the states apply for the same purpose. The purpose the states outline in their applications is limiting and controlling for all stages of the process. We know as a historical fact that it controls the CALLING of the convention, and we know from the litigation I did that it is unconstitutional to change the process midstream. Thus, the subject matter limitation imposed by the states in their applications is binding at all stages of the process.

10. State legislatures control this process from beginning to end. Governors are irrelevant. Congress can only name the time and place. State legislatures name the delegates and give them their instructions.

11. All voting at a Convention of States is done on the basis of one state, one vote. Thus, it requires 26 states to approve anything as a “proposed constitutional amendment.” The convention has no more power than Congress. It can only propose amendments.

12. Thirty-eight states must ratify any proposed amendment.

13. The idea that anything crazy could make it through that process is simply untenable. We will either get good amendments or we will get nothing. If the Convention were appointed in some other manner, then there would be a lot more to worry about. But the people who must approve the work product—state legislatures—are the ones who name the delegates. They are also the ones who give the convention its subject matter.

14. At this point in our history, our country’s most conservative institutions are our state legislatures. We must act soon while conservatives still control this process. Otherwise big cities, big government, and big media will use their influence over Washington, DC, to ruin this nation and destroy our liberty.

I promise you, my other answers will be much shorter.

Your second question:

2. Would the legislatures’ efforts be more effectively directed toward holding
office holders accountable to their oaths before changing the document that
is the subject of the oath? For example, can the states effect impeachment
of those key authorities who have been so derelict in their duties?

State legislatures currently have no power to impeach federal officials from their states. This is not a viable option.

This would, however, be a proper amendment to suggest at the Convention of States we are proposing. I like the idea of giving the state governments the power to impeach Congressmen and Senators from their states.

One of the amendments I had previously contemplated has a similar impact. The federal courts regularly refuse to rule on constitutional issues they want to avoid by calling them “political questions” or by claiming that no one has standing to sue to challenge these matters. (For example, legal challenges to a President taking us to war without a declaration of war is avoided by the political question/standing method). One of my ideas for an amendment would be to automatically grant state legislators standing to challenge any action of the federal government as violating its constitutional limitations.

We need better enforcement mechanisms, and we can get them through a Convention of States.

Your third question:

3. If we could and would first enforce the Constitution, then I expect we would
see stronger support for amending it. But if we cannot enforce it, why go to
the trouble and risk of attempting to amend it? Is it simply for the
publicity/educational value? Obviously the discussion has caused a deep
divide amongst conservatives who support the Constitution. This divide could
end up costing us key seats on Election Day, as half of the conservatives
may feel disenfranchised if this is pursued.

The big answer is this: Washington, DC, pretends to obey the Constitution, and the Supreme Court gives them cover. The vast majority of damage to our country has been done to us as the result of the misuse of two provisions in the Constitution—the Commerce Clause and the General Welfare Clause. You and I (and every sensible American) knows those in Washington have abused these Clauses. They can still pretend to obey the Constitution, however, because of how the Supreme Court has misinterpreted it. We have not gone so far down the road that people admit Washington disobeys the Constitution and it doesn’t matter.

If the American public believed Washington, DC, purposefully disobeys the Constitution, there would be huge political backlash.

We need proper amendments to effectively limit the power of the federal government—especially the courts. If I am a delegate to the Convention of States I will propose reconfiguring the Supreme Court after the model of the European Court of Human Rights. There are 46 nations in that court’s jurisdiction, and every nation appoints one judge. We should expand the Supreme Court to 50 justices and have the states appoint the justices for a specific term (6 or 8 years) with no right of reappointment. That one change would do more to ensure a constitutional government than anything I know of.

It is true that we are dividing conservatives today. That is sad, but it is also diminishing. The growing number of conservative leaders who are supporting a Convention of States (Mark Levin, David Barton, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and dare I add Mike Farris) is gaining momentum, and soon those opposing the Convention of States will be on the margins of our political movement.

But I cannot promise every state legislator that there will be no political price to pay for this. Right now, state legislatures control less than half of the issues they would be considering if the Constitution’s original plan was being followed. Congress has stolen the majority of your jurisdiction. We can continue to fight and scrap over a decreasing scope of state jurisdiction in conservative states like Montana, Idaho, and Mississippi, while Congressmen from Illinois, California, New York and Massachusetts make the actual decisions for the majority of issues that impact your state.

In any fight worth having there are political risks. I am walking away from the opportunity to run for Congress to lead this effort. My own district’s seat has just come open after 34 years. I would be the most likely GOP candidate to win the nomination in a seat held by a GOP member for 34 years. I am taking a risk for a position I long planned to seek. But I believe that my own election would be meaningless compared to the good I can do to help save the nation through a Convention of States.

If we want to save liberty, if we want to preserve the legitimate jurisdiction of the states (which is essential to liberty as well), then we have only one realistic alternative. The Founders gave us a Convention of States for just such a time as this. We had better use it before it is too late.

I am more than willing to talk with you at any point about any of this.


Michael Farris, JD, LLM
Convention of States Project

156 posted on 01/06/2014 10:27:15 AM PST by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: Norm Lenhart
First we have to seperate ourselves from the enemy within our own ranks that demands compromise...

Yes, but don't waste too much time on them. Set the sissies aside for now and focus on the leftists - always on the leftists. The lukewarm "conservatives" will follow us once we make headway. But if we waste time trying to get them in line or identify them first, we will never get anywhere, especially if half of them are leftist plants, as I suspect they are. Any time you see a "conservative" advocating compromise or some other useless passive strategy, tell them to stfu and ignore them. Always focus on fighting the Left.
157 posted on 01/06/2014 12:23:19 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: Windflier
Do not fear these people.

This statement I wholeheartedly agree with. These people are beneath us. All the men with the balls to go and fight and die in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam and anywhere else are pretty much on our side. The ones that would fight for the Left are, at best, the pencil-pushing REMFs and at worst, the pajama boys. They may own the best hardware when we start this thing, but they don't deserve one single ounce of nervous sweat from those better men.
158 posted on 01/06/2014 12:34:15 PM PST by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
They may own the best hardware when we start this thing, but they don't deserve one single ounce of nervous sweat from those better men.

It's nearly impossible to defeat a homegrown guerrilla insurgency who are fighting to preserve and protect their own home land. Invasion troops don't have the same sort of heart and passion for the fight as those who are facing extermination.

As we saw in Iraq, Vietnam, and even in the American Revolution, superior firepower, technology, troop numbers, and logistical support, don't always result in victory. In fact, they almost never do, unless they're set against similar forces.

There's just something powerful about having truth and right on your side in a fight. The majority of the American people have that. The deep left who have infiltrated and usurped our government, don't.

159 posted on 01/06/2014 1:37:07 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

That was then, this is now. You’re forgetting about drone technology.

160 posted on 01/06/2014 1:43:38 PM PST by 3boysdad (The very elect.)
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To: 3boysdad
That was then, this is now. You’re forgetting about drone technology.

Yeah, those all powerful drones have enabled us to achieve an unqualified victory in Afghanistan, haven't they?, they haven't.

161 posted on 01/06/2014 1:45:40 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants; Darin1948; boxlunch; rockinqsranch; Jacquerie; NFHale

> The two solutions I see are a constitutional convention and secession.

Assuming an amendment[s] convention (via Art 5) I would propose these:

Tax Reform Amendment
Section I
No tax, federal or state, shall ever be withheld from the wages of a worker of any citizen of either.

Section II
No property shall be seized for failure to pay taxes until after conviction in a jury trial; the right of the jury to nullify (and thereby forgive) this debt shall never be questioned or denied.

Section III
The second amendment is hereby recognized as restricting the power of taxation, both federal and state, therefore no tax (or fine) shall be laid upon munitions or the sale thereof.

Section IV
The seventh amendment is also hereby recognized, and nothing in this amendment shall restrict the right of a citizen to seek civil redress.

Section V
No income tax levied by the federal government, the several States, or any subdivision of either shall ever exceed 10%.

Section VI
No income tax levied by the federal government, the several States, or any subdivision of either shall ever apply varying rates to those in its jurisdiction.

Section VII
No retroactive or ex post facto tax (or fee) shall ever be valid.

Section VIII
The congress may not delegate the creation of any tax or fine in any way.

Section IX
No federal employee, representative, senator, judge, justice or agent shall ever be exempt from any tax, fine, or fee by virtue of their position.

Section X
Any federal employee, representative, senator, judge, justice or agent applying, attempting to apply, or otherwise causing the application of an ex post facto or retroactive law shall, upon conviction, be evicted from office and all retirement benefits forfeit.

Senate Reform Amendment
Section I
The seventeenth amendment is hereby repealed.

Section II
The several states may provide by law the means by which their senators may be removed or replaced.

Fiscal Responsibility Amendment
Section I
The power of Congress to regulate the value of the dollar is hereby repealed.

Section II
The value of the Dollar shall be one fifteen-hundredth avoirdupois ounce of gold of which impurities do not exceed one part per thousand.

Section III
To guard against Congress using its authority over weights and measures to bypass Section I, the ounce in Section II is approximately 28.3495 grams (SI).

Section IV
The Secretary of the Treasury shall annually report the gold physically in its possession; this report shall be publicly available.

Section V
The power of the Congress to assume debt is hereby restricted: the congress shall assume no debt that shall cause the total obligations of the United States to exceed one hundred ten percent of the amount last reported by the Secretary of the Treasury.

Section VI
Any government agent, officer, judge, justice, employee, representative, or congressman causing gold to be confiscated from a private citizen shall be tried for theft and upon conviction shall:
a. be removed from office (and fired, if an employee),
b. forfeit all pension and retirement benefits,
c. pay all legal costs, and
d. restore to the bereaved twice the amount in controversy.

Section VII
The federal government shall assume no obligation lacking funding, neither shall it lay such obligation on any of the several States, any subdivision thereof, or any place under the jurisdiction of the United States. All unfunded liabilities heretofore assumed by the United States are void.

Section VIII
The federal government shall make all payments to its employees or the several states in physical gold. Misappropriation, malfeasance and/or misfeasance of funds shall be considered confiscation.

Commerce Clause Amendment
Section I
The federal government shall directly subsidize no product or industry whatsoever, saving the promotion the progress of Science and useful Arts.

Section II
The federal government shall never prescribe nor proscribe what the Several States teach. Neither the federal government nor the several states shall ever deny the right of parents to teach and instruct their children as they see fit.

Section III
The congress may impose tariffs, excise taxes, and customs duties on anything imported or exported, provided that they are applied uniformly and in no manner restrict, subvert, or circumvent the second amendment.

Section IV
No law may impose prohibitions of any sort on the commerce between the several states due to the item itself.

162 posted on 01/07/2014 2:04:36 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

“No government agency, organization, or entity created by Congress in the past or future shall have legislative or judicial powers. For the purpose of this amendment, “legislative power” shall be construed to mean the making of any rule violation of which renders a citizen, legal entity, corporation, or company of any state or the United States to imprisonment, fine, excessive or punitive fee, or other punishment. “Judicial power” shall be construed to mean, the holding of any evidentiary hearing not presided over by an Article III court or the issuance of findings which result in imprisonment, fine, or punishment of a citizen, legal entity, corporation, or company of any state or the United States.

163 posted on 01/07/2014 3:20:11 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The War on Drugs has been used as an excuse to steal your rights. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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