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Upstate NY struggles as more leave than move in
Associated Press ^ | Jan. 3, 2014 10:03 AM EST | Michael Hill

Posted on 01/03/2014 9:16:20 PM PST by Olog-hai

Melissa Grothues and John Steele bailed from Buffalo last year. Dissatisfied with their bank jobs, the 25-year-old college graduates sold the house in suburban Amherst, posted ads for possessions on Craigslist and drove cross country to San Diego for a fresh start. […]

The young couple is hardly alone in exiting upstate New York. More people are leaving the region than moving into it, contributing to a largely stagnant population. The trend has helped lead to New York losing four congressional seats in the last two Census counts and is about to cost the state some prestige. At some point early this year, Florida is expected to surpass New York as the third most populous state, according to projections by The Associated Press. […]

Why are people leaving upstate New York? Some complain that taxes in New York are too high. Others, like Grotheus, say there are better job opportunities elsewhere. …

(Excerpt) Read more at bigstory.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: taxes

1 posted on 01/03/2014 9:16:20 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Out of one frying pan, into another...


2 posted on 01/03/2014 9:18:13 PM PST by ltc8k6
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To: Olog-hai

I surely can’t see why people are leaving blue states.../s


3 posted on 01/03/2014 9:20:05 PM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Olog-hai; ltc8k6; jsanders2001
RE :Melissa Grothues and John Steele bailed from Buffalo last year. Dissatisfied with their bank jobs, the 25-year-old college graduates sold the house in suburban Amherst, posted ads for possessions on Craigslist and drove cross country to San Diego for a fresh start.

Northern NYS to Southern CA.

LOL, they don't like the cold.

4 posted on 01/03/2014 9:22:07 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: Olog-hai
Melissa Grothues and John Steele bailed from Buffalo last year. Dissatisfied with their bank jobs, the 25-year-old college graduates sold the house in suburban Amherst, posted ads for possessions on Craigslist and drove cross country to San Diego for a fresh start.

Good lord, why didn't they call ahead? I could have save 'em half their gas by convincing 'em to stop in Texas.

5 posted on 01/03/2014 9:26:35 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: sickoflibs

But they probably don’t mind the politics.


6 posted on 01/03/2014 9:28:18 PM PST by wastedyears (The Ender's Game movie was a stupendous, colossal, galactic failure to me.)
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To: ltc8k6

That is what I was thinking.


7 posted on 01/03/2014 9:30:16 PM PST by funfan
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To: Olog-hai

People don’t like high taxes? Imagine that.


8 posted on 01/03/2014 9:31:43 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

King Rehoboam learned that lesson the hard way.


9 posted on 01/03/2014 9:33:31 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Navy Patriot
You want them in Texas??

I s'pose... ;-)

10 posted on 01/03/2014 9:46:06 PM PST by MV=PY (The Magic Question: Who's paying for it?)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

Yeah, they prefer to leave a high tax state like NY for a low tax state like CA. LOL.


11 posted on 01/03/2014 9:47:48 PM PST by kabar
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To: Olog-hai

Sounds like they went from bad to - just as bad (CA). Where will they flee to next?


12 posted on 01/03/2014 9:48:38 PM PST by Jane Long (While Marxists continue the fundamental transformation of the USA, progressive RINOs assist!)
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To: Olog-hai

Some complain that taxes in New York are too high. Others, like Grotheus, say there are better job opportunities elsewhere

Hey you fleeing couple....think there might be a connection between the two?


13 posted on 01/03/2014 9:58:59 PM PST by xp38
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To: ltc8k6

I’d say a move from Buffalo to San Diego was a significant improvement. And you can bet the young couple is marveling at how warm and nice it is here right now. I actually considered a dip in the pool today but opted to just lay out in the sun instead. Absolutely perfect weather here right now.

Anyone hear how the weather is back east right now? I was just kinda wondering if it was starting to cool down for winter yet? Any snow?


14 posted on 01/03/2014 10:29:47 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

I am in Buffalo, where the state is blue and (at least now, anyways) the testicles are bluer. 4 degrees Farenheit, if nothing else, will make a MAN out of you. None of this chi chi sushi fou fou crap.


15 posted on 01/03/2014 10:58:35 PM PST by fhayek
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To: Olog-hai

I did a five year sentence in Buffalo getting a BS. Most of the year the landscape has a lunar look to it. If the dirty snow ever melts, there’s not much left alive underneath it.

The end of my first year, sometime in May, I remember calling home and telling my mother I finally saw a crocus.


16 posted on 01/03/2014 11:09:46 PM PST by ToastedHead
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To: Navy Patriot

Are you really sure you want them in Texas?


17 posted on 01/03/2014 11:52:18 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

You thought I was talking about the weather?

I’d say the Democrats and voters are slightly worse in California, but a toss-up overall.


18 posted on 01/03/2014 11:57:29 PM PST by ltc8k6
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To: Jane Long
Sounds like they went from bad to - just as bad (CA).

Actually it's bad to much worse. Compare the cost of housing in Buffalo to San Diego. Taxes are as high or higher. The only advantage is that when they are homeless they don't have to worry about freezing to death sleeping on the streets.

19 posted on 01/04/2014 3:57:47 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: sickoflibs
Northern NYS to Southern CA. These two are moving to the liberal progressive utopia, not for economic reasons. You might as well be warm while you get...................
20 posted on 01/04/2014 4:02:28 AM PST by ronnie raygun
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To: ToastedHead

I remember waking up with a delightful female after a BD party for me in Albany, there was six inches or so of snow on the ground.

I’m a Taurus. My BD is near mid-May.

Sometimes I really miss upstate NY.
Not now!


21 posted on 01/04/2014 4:07:35 AM PST by djf (Global warming is a bunch of hot air!!)
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To: Olog-hai
The question begs, does the Marcellus and York Shale Formations extend all the way up to Buffalo and Rochester area, or does it stop about an Hr or so South of them by car if you look @ the maps.

If it did and Coumo wasn't the Mini-Me-Dictator he is and allowed Fracking in this region cam you imagine the turn-around?

FWIW I have a friend in the area and have spent sometime their. The Fruits grown and harvested in late August are amazing and this on top of Corn etc. The wine guys have found it out too, great for grapes. The lay of the land is stunning.

Can you also imagine if they Spun off from the rest of the State and became "Reaganville" and how prosperous the area would be without NYC and Albany?

22 posted on 01/04/2014 4:23:07 AM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: djf

Lol. Was it me?

I know I went to Albany more than once, and drank there more than once, with my roommate. Varying amounts of snowfall. Probably in ‘96 or ‘97.

My b-day is also mid May.

AND I do miss parts of upstate NY. The finger lakes, especially around Cayuga and Seneca.


23 posted on 01/04/2014 4:31:05 AM PST by ToastedHead
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To: ToastedHead

I grew up (that’s debatable!!) at the western edge of the Finger lakes, near Conesus lake, in Livingston county.

I miss the lightning bugs. The berries, strawberries and black raspberries.

REAL seasons where the maples change their leaves practically overnight.

Fresh sweet corn, mean pick it and you can be eating it 20 minutes later!

Lot of EXCELLENT cheese from that part of the country!

GOOD Italian food. I mean TO DIE FOR Italian food.

I may get back there sometime, but not in any rush now...


24 posted on 01/04/2014 4:46:33 AM PST by djf (Global warming is a bunch of hot air!!)
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To: djf

Grew up north of Syracuse. Still miss the white hotdogs served at Hyde’s in Liverpool.

Don’t miss the potential for significant snow from October through mid-May and the 25 to 35 below zero temps that happen every winter.


25 posted on 01/04/2014 6:01:05 AM PST by Calamari (Pass enough laws and everyone is guilty of something.)
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To: Calamari

Oh yeah, the dogs, there ya go!

Most of my family is still back there, and I guess it’s been fairly mild the last ten or so years.

But I remember looking out the window one January and seeing the deer pawing through the snow trying to find apples... probably 30 or 40 deer that night.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of ten to twenty below.

That’s life threatening stuff. You don’t even want to take the smallest chance then. Gotta hunker down as best you can!


26 posted on 01/04/2014 6:09:57 AM PST by djf (Global warming is a bunch of hot air!!)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
Are you really sure you want them in Texas?

Well, they both had jobs, so they're willing to work. They sold their house, so they probably aren't deadbeats or seriously overextended, and they are smart enough to leave New York, so they should be able to do well in Texas. Seriously.

27 posted on 01/04/2014 6:13:12 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
They will hit the ground telling you that you're stupid and doing everything wrong.

When I was 9 a family from NYC moved into the neighborhood. They had a kid my age who informed me that he couldn't play with Southern kids because we were "backward". It didn't hurt my feelings because he was very obviously a weenie.

28 posted on 01/04/2014 6:30:39 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Olog-hai
Count us as part of the migration. Lived in Binghamton for 26 years. Watched upstate just die. Good jobs moving out (IBM, Singer-Link, GE) taking productive workers with them.

For a while there were orgasmic news reports every time a company brought 30, 50 or 100 jobs into the area. Each job creation story was accompanied with tales of how a local politician had put forth Herculean efforts to cut through red tape and regulation, making everything happen in only a couple of years. To me it seemed that, of such exceptional efforts were needed, the default condition is pretty hostile to business.

Now upstate features shrinking towns and politicians reluctant to consolidate since they may be left standing when the music stops. Schools and churches closing. Kids going away to college and never coming back as they had no job prospects. Eventually you end up with an aging population featuring people who live there because they've lived there their whole lives. We sold ou house and left. In NJ now but will probably end up in PA for its lower taxes.

29 posted on 01/04/2014 6:37:41 AM PST by Dilbert56
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
They had a kid my age who informed me that he couldn't play with Southern kids because we were "backward".

I know that guy, he's the one who wears his underwear as a hoodie.

30 posted on 01/04/2014 7:10:43 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot; SWAMPSNIPER

I want to suggest that all NYers who are unhappy move to San Diego or Texas. If going to San Diego, avoid Arizona - after all, you might want to visit Las Vegas on the way. But feel free to move to Texas.

Then write any of the NYers in Arizona, and tell them how great your life is and how they ought to join you.

We have several NYers and NJers in the neighborhood. It was easy to identify them...they were the ones who voted to keep the HOA, but were outvoted 85-15. Now that they don’t have an HOA to use to rule everyone elses’ lives, they are the ones who go around with sour pusses and complain that Arizona isn’t progressive enough.

I’m still waiting to meet a person from NY or NJ who wants to be free, and who is willing to let the others around him live free. But I’m only 55, so maybe someday...


31 posted on 01/04/2014 7:31:45 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

People with an ounce of sense and no chip on their shoulder (elitist or otherwise), can get along with Texans easily.


32 posted on 01/04/2014 7:43:54 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Olog-hai

Amherst is downstate to anyone who actually lives upstate.


33 posted on 01/04/2014 7:45:34 AM PST by MortMan ("Choice" is properly exercised the night before, not the morning after.)
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To: Olog-hai

I left in 2000, never looked back, and called myself a lucky man.


34 posted on 01/04/2014 7:47:09 AM PST by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: MortMan; Olog-hai

OK - I double checked my “facts” and discovered that I’m full of smelly brown stuff. I was thinking Amherst was in the Catskills. I’ll turn in my upstater card, um, soon.

Mea culpa. But I can’t promise not to post first and think second again, now can I?!? ;-P


35 posted on 01/04/2014 7:51:57 AM PST by MortMan ("Choice" is properly exercised the night before, not the morning after.)
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To: taildragger
I agree with you about the beauty of most of upstate and western NY. When I was looking for a place to locate, I wanted

(1) safety

(2) reasonably priced and quality housing

(3) easy access to shopping and necessities,

(4) recreational/cultural oppotunities

(5) availability of public transportation if I ever couldn't drive

In NYS, maybe Rochester would provide all of that. But strangely (who'd think it?) there are towns south of Cleveland that meet ALL of those criteria.

I could see rural NYS having a future when federal and global govenments collapse. There's a lot of sparsely populated land and plenty of resources for self-sufficiency.

36 posted on 01/04/2014 8:00:38 AM PST by grania
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To: Navy Patriot

I guess I’m still waiting to meet a NYer with “an ounce of sense and no chip on their shoulder”. The ones I run into all complain that Arizona is filled with hicks who ought to appreciate the wisdom and insight of NYers who only want to lift us up to their level.


37 posted on 01/04/2014 8:04:58 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
Actually, your point is well made. All the Western states started as self sufficient, independent individual frontiers, and the degeneration to Communist utopias was imported by know-it-all Easterners, fleeing the Communist Utopias they had made their own states.
38 posted on 01/04/2014 8:11:27 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: taildragger

I think this is why cuomo is blocking fracking. He does not want upstate to climb out of the hole they have been in for decades and be real contenders in Albany.


39 posted on 01/04/2014 5:14:08 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
I think this is why cuomo is blocking fracking. He does not want upstate to climb out of the hole they have been in for decades and be real contenders in Albany.

Wow, I didn't think of that. It would change the center of gravity of NY as you follow the money you'll find the power. Some poor farmer who has been trying to eek out a living for eons can now tell Coumo and his like apperachik buddies in NYC and in Albany to go pound sand as they reach the land of critical mass from the royalties under their land that they allowed to be drilled on. Can't allow independent minds then have capital and power to challenge their Statist Paradigm.

Let us hope their is Nat-Gas all the way to the shores of Lake Ontario so these hard workin' folks can tell them exactly what they think, unfiltered...

40 posted on 01/04/2014 6:17:54 PM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
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To: ltc8k6

No, I did not think you were talking about the weather. Just pointing out it is so nice and warm here...again today.


41 posted on 01/04/2014 8:07:03 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: fhayek

Been there, done that. Had enough of that cooooooold weather. But I admire your guts.


42 posted on 01/04/2014 8:10:55 PM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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