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Why Obamacare Cannot Succeed
Townhall.com ^ | January 5, 2014 | Bruce Bialosky

Posted on 01/05/2014 7:57:20 AM PST by Kaslin

Now that Obamacare has actually been unleashed on the unsuspecting American public, there is mass speculation about whether it will succeed as a program. Each political side presents its arguments with many former supporters caught in the middle. But if you understand how insurance works, it is basic that the program cannot work without even more coercion than is in the law as presently constituted.

Prior to the passing of this massive law, there was a basic pattern how health insurance matters worked in most states, which is where these decisions were made. The state had an insurance commissioner to oversee insurance companies. The state legislatures would establish laws regarding health insurance policies which were far more extensive than for auto or homeowners’ insurance. The legislature would be lobbied by either a special interest group or by a few “suffering” souls, and new mandatory benefits like chiropractors or maternity care would be included in each policy. Basic policies were larded up with so much that affordability became difficult for families or businesses. Choice became limited as rules became dictated and basic catastrophic policies became limited in their availability.

With all that being said, the insurance companies never breached certain taboos which they knew would break the bank and make policies soar beyond any reasonable economic sense. It was not because the insurance companies were just cold, heartless corporate animals. These benefits were not part of policies because the people who operate insurance companies knew through sophisticated mathematical analysis they would have to charge such outlandish fees that the average person would be overwhelmed financially.

In step the Democrats of Washington who had a guiding light – equality. Everyone should bear the burden equally for the minority who cannot instead of addressing those individuals in a different manner.

There are many “benefits” that were mandated by Obamacare, but three were particularly financially unsustainable or corrupting:

1. The lifting of lifetime caps on benefits: The insurance companies never did this because they cannot calculate what their potential outlays would be in the future to be able to estimate what should be properly charged to policy holders. They are shooting at an unknown and moving target. They now have no choice but to jack up premiums to cover the potential costs.

2. Pre-existing conditions: The insurance companies limited their exposure from new policyholders to highly-expensive illnesses because they would have needed to either charge exorbitant rates to limited individuals to cover the risks or massively increased the rates of others not afflicted with the same ailments.

One might ask that since employer-sponsored plans do not exclude people for pre-existing conditions now why this will be such a problem. That is because the insurance companies are able to amortize their costs over the members of the policy.

In this new situation they will just being throwing people into an insurance group without any actuarial analysis. There is a program that does that now – it is called Medicare. That is a large reason expenditures for Medicare are out of control.

3. Equal charges for the two sex – Feminists never liked that insurance companies charged more for health insurance for women than for men. But you did not hear them arguing about auto insurance premiums that were higher for young males than for young females. The reason those rates were higher was because young males drove more and had more accidents. In California, in an attempt at equality, Proposition 103 eliminated different charges for males and females, so young girls were stuck with higher insurance bills to cover their boyfriends’ errant behavior.

In the same manner, insurance companies were not charging women more because the people who operated the companies hated their mothers. It was because women use medical services more frequently than men and therefore incur higher costs. They were charging the people who used the services for what they were using.

All of these new policies as part of Obamacare are wonderful in a make-believe world. But insurance is based on mathematical calculations. Actuaries study pools of policy holders and then calculate based on historical data what the projected outlays will be, then figure overhead and profit above that. That is how they come up with a monthly fee for members of their group.

Obamacare threw that all out the window. They figured on a group of young people obtaining insurance at rates above what their medical care experience would warrant. They have caused people to have significantly increased premiums, most with much higher deductibles. That is all with what for the most part are much smaller pools of providers (doctors and hospitals).

There are some winners, but most people are financial losers. That was never explained to Americans, but now that it is hitting them personally they are revolting. That is why there are so many penalties in the law. This is not sustainable on its own without threats and coercion. You could surmise that the writers of the bill new it would be hated. That is why crafters of the legislation wrote so many penalties into the plan. If the plan is so hotsy totsy people should be running to get it -- not running away?

One of two things will happen. The program will fail on the weight of its outrageously expensive requirements, or it will remain in place but only with the addition of much higher penalties and more threats of actions against those who won’t willingly overpay for their health insurance. We don’t believe the latter will be tolerated by the American people so we are left with the former.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 01/05/2014 7:57:20 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

A Ponzi scheme requiring government enforecment.


2 posted on 01/05/2014 7:59:16 AM PST by Huskrrrr
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To: Kaslin

All of these new policies as part of Obamacare are wonderful in a make-believe world.
Unicorns nod.


3 posted on 01/05/2014 8:02:35 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: Kaslin

“All of these new policies as part of Obamacare are wonderful in a make-believe world. But insurance is based on mathematical calculations. Actuaries study pools of policy holders and then calculate based on historical data what the projected outlays will be, then figure overhead and profit above that. That is how they come up with a monthly fee for members of their group.”

And now we have a classic case of the state trying to manage an economic activity that must be free market. It is doomed to fail.


4 posted on 01/05/2014 8:09:20 AM PST by Rennes Templar (If you like your disease, you can keep it.)
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To: Huskrrrr

People enter into Ponzi schemes at their own free will.

We have no say in the matter. Except to tell them no.

I have drawn my line in the sand. They can all go to HELL!


5 posted on 01/05/2014 8:11:37 AM PST by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal the 16th Amendment)
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To: Kaslin

Simple answer: I was never meant to succeed.


6 posted on 01/05/2014 8:13:28 AM PST by SC_Pete
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To: Kaslin

Simple answer: It was never meant to succeed.


7 posted on 01/05/2014 8:13:39 AM PST by SC_Pete
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To: Kaslin
The program will fail on the weight of its outrageously expensive requirements, or it will remain in place but only with the addition of much higher penalties and more threats of actions against those who won’t willingly overpay for their health insurance. We don’t believe the latter will be tolerated by the American people so we are left with the former.

I wish this were true, but all the evidence says it's not true.

Light bulbs are a good example. A stupid law was passed. The Pubs vowed to repeal it. They didn't and now 40, 60, 75 watt incandescent bulbs are being replaced with LED bulbs that are 10X more expensive, or fluorescent bulbs that are more expensive.

obamacare will not be repealed. The leftists love fascism. A growing majority of people think you can get something valuable at someone else's expense. As more and more problems come up with this idiotic healthcare system the solution will be more govt control and in the end Medicare will be morphed into a program covering everyone.

The Pub mantra that the system will collapse because of it's poorly conceived economics is wrong because we no longer have a market based economy.

8 posted on 01/05/2014 8:15:27 AM PST by wmfights
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To: Kaslin

Obamacare.........

When is a law “NOT” a law?

“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.” Thomas Jefferson


9 posted on 01/05/2014 8:19:08 AM PST by hapnHal (hapnHal)
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To: Kaslin
The ACA is here to stay. If you don't believe that give me examples of anything the government passed as law that was later repealed. Prohibition is about the only one I can think of but I want examples along the lines of the ACA, like Medicaid, Social Security, Income Tax, etc.

Social Security is an absolute financial disaster but the government is NOT inclined to repeal it. That is the way it will be with the ACA. It's NOT going to go away.

10 posted on 01/05/2014 8:19:13 AM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: Kaslin

Some of the PRINCIPLES of Obamacare are worthwhile. For example - pre-existing conditions. I know a surprising number of people who are “trapped” in a job or basically cannot be hired full-time because of this, each one having a problem not of their own making or from bad behavior, just bad genes or bad luck. Labor force mobility USED TO BE a great advantage of the US labor force. “Business as usual” - with insurance working as it did pre-Obamacare - is not sustainable and is not the answer either. Health insurance and the medical industry have been going to hell for 30 years and anyone reading this who is more than 50 years old knows this to be absolutely true. Obamacare makes an already horribly inefficient system even MORE inefficient.


11 posted on 01/05/2014 8:19:47 AM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Kaslin
The reality is most "signups" are simply getting free healthcare thru the expansion of medicaid. In Maryland for example, which went all out and set up an exchange and worked hand in hand with Obamacare , apprx 130,000 people signed up for free medicaid (with and without the website) vs 18,000 who signed up for insurance. Of the 18,000 signing up for "private plans", many are subsidized by the taxpayer.

Maryland had planned for 100,000 free and 150,000 private.
It got 130,000 free and 18,000 private.

The system will go broke.

12 posted on 01/05/2014 8:20:25 AM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: Kaslin
So-called "progressives," since the late 1800's, have erased history books of America's founding principles, including those which dealt with the economic dimension of liberty--principles which, if ignored, produce undesirable consequences to individuals and nations.

Substituting coercive government power in the hands of imperfect people for what our Declaration of Independence called "the laws of nature and of nature's god," these modern "progressives" have believed that "consequences" also would be avoided.

We are witnessing what may be a landmark case study for future generations of how a great nation can take itself from freedom to bondage, along with all the other consequences of such foolish and arrogant substitution of man-made law for that upon which the Declaration of Independence was formed.

Just suppose a majority of the people in the United States read and took seriously the following ideas:

1. "The first grand right is that of the people having a share in their own government by their representatives chosen by themselves, and...of being ruled by laws which they themselves approve, not by edicts of men over whom they have no controul...." - John Adams

2. "The next great right is that of trial by jury. This provides that neither life, liberty nor property can be taken from the possessor, until twelve of his...countrymen...shall pass their sentence upon oath against him."- John Adams

3. Adams called these two "popular powers...the heart and lungs...and without them," he said, "the body must die...the government must become arbitrary." 4. "Government is instituted to protect property of every sort....This being the end of government, that is NOT a just government,...nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has...is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest." - James Madison

5. "The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God...anarchy and tyranny commence. PROPERTY MUST BE SECURED OR LIBERTY CANNOT EXIST." - John Adams

6. "The first grand right is that of the people having a share in their own government by their representatives chosen by themselves, and...of being ruled by laws which they themselves approve....This is a bulwark surrounding and defining their property, which by their...labours they have acquired, so that no portions of it can be legally taken away from them but with their full and free consent." - Adopted by the Continental Congress-1774

7. "Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions." - James Madison-1792

8. "A right to property is founded in our natural wants, in the means with which we are endowed to satisfy these wants, and the right to what we acquire by those means without violating the similar rights of other sensible beings." - Thomas Jefferson-1816

9. "That a People should be taxed at the Will of another, whether of one Man or many, without their own Consent in Person or by Representative, is rank Slavery. For if their Superior sees fit, they may be deprived of their whole Property, upon any frivolous Pretext, or without any Pretext at all. And a People without Property, or in the precarious Possession of it, are in no better State than Slaves; for Liberty, or even Life itself, without the Enjoyment of them flowing from Property, are of no Value." - Boston Gazette-1765

10. "Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence....I take it that it is best for all to leave each man free to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don't believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good." - Abraham Lincoln

11. "No man would become a member of a community in which he could not enjoy the fruits of his honest labor and industry. The preservation of property, then, is a primary object of the social compact....The legislature, therefore, had no authority to make an act divesting one citizen of his freehold, and vesting it in another, without a just compensation. It is inconsistent with the principles of reason, justice, and moral rectitude; it is incompatible with the comfort, peace and happiness of mankind; it is contrary to the principles of social alliance in every free government; and lastly, it is contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution. - "Supreme Court-1795

12. " 'To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States': that is to say, 'to lay taxes for the purpose of providing for the general welfare.' For the laying of taxes is the power, and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. Congress are not to levy taxes, ad libitum, for any purpose they please: but only to pay the debts, or provide for the welfare of the union. In like manner, they are not to do any thing they please, to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they pleased. It is an established rule of construction [interpretation], where a phrase will bear either of two meanings, to give it that which will allow some meaning to the other parts of the instrument, and not that which will render all the others useless. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers, and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect." - (Emphasis added) Thomas Jefferson-1791

13. "If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature...." - Thomas Jefferson-1787

14. "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it." - Thomas Jefferson-1816

15. "There is not, of necessity, any such thing as the free hired labourer being fixed to that condition for life. Many independent men everywhere in these states, a few years back in their lives, were hired labourers. The prudent, penniless beginner in the world labors for wages a while, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself; then labours on his own account for another while, and at length, hires another new beginner to help him. This is the just, and generous, and prosperous system which opens the way to all-- gives hope to all--and consequent energy, and progress, and improvement of condition to all." - Abraham Lincoln-1861

16. "I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That 'all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people....' To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporators of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill, have not, in my opinion, been delegated to the United States, by the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson-1791

17. "It has been urged and echoed, that the power 'to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States,' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defence or general welfare...But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?...For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor more common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which...we must take the liberty of supposing had not its origin (with the authors of the Constitution)." -James Madison-Federalist No. 41

18. "If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy." - Thomas Jefferson

19. "The Utopian schemes of leveling [redistribution of wealth] and a community of goods [common ownership], are as visionary and impractical as those which vest all property in the Crown. [These ideas] are arbitrary, despotic, and, in our government, unconstitutional." - Samuel Adams

20. "I think myself, that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." - Thomas Jefferson

21. "Economy in the public expense, that labor may be lightly burdened, I deem (one of the) essential principles of our government and, consequently (one) which ought to shape its administrations." - Thomas Jefferson-First Inaugural

22. "I am not among those who fear the people. They...are our dependence for continued freedom. And to preserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds...our people...must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they (the British) now do, on oatmeal and potatoes; have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers....This example reads to us the salutary lesson that private fortunes are destroyed by public, as well as by private extravagance. And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from the principle in one instance, becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering. Then begins, indeed, the 'bellum omnium in omnia,' which some philosophers...have mistaken for the natural, instead of the abusive, state of man. And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." - Thomas Jefferson

23. "I go on the principle that a public debt is a public curse." - James Madison

24. "The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale....We shall all consider ourselves unauthorized to saddle posterity with our debts, and morally bound to pay them ourselves...." - Thomas Jefferson

25. "The interest of the national debt [in England] is now equal to such a portion of the profits of all the land and the labor of the island, as not to leave enough for the subsistence of those who labor. Hence the owners of the land abandon it and retire to other countries, and the laborer has not enough of his earnings left to him to cover his back and to fill his belly....The landholder has nothing of his own to give; he is but the fiduciary of those who have lent him money; the lender is so taxed in his meat, drink, and clothing, that he has but a bare subsistence left." - Thomas Jefferson

26. "I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the Federal Government the power of borrowing." - Thomas Jefferson-1798

27. "...it is no child's play to save the principles of Jefferson from total overthrow in this nation...The principles of Jefferson are the definitions and axioms of a free society. And yet they are denied and evaded, with no small show of success." - Abraham Lincoln

28. "That paper money has some advantages, is admitted. But that its abuses also are inevitable, and, by breaking up the measure of value, makes a lottery of all private property...Shall we ever be able to put a constitutional veto on it?" - Thomas Jefferson-1817

29. "Whenever the paper has not been convertible into specie [gold and silver coin], and its quantity has depended on the policy of the Government, a depreciation has been produced by an undue increase, or an apprehension of it...." - James Madison-1820

30. "Specie [gold or silver coin] is the most perfect medium because it will preserve its own level; because having intrinsic and universal value, it can never die in our hands, and it is the surest resource of reliance in time of war." - Thomas Jefferson-1813

31. "James Madison left his testimony [in his personal notes of the Convention proceedings] that 'the pretext for a paper currency, and particularly for making the bills a tender, either for public or private debts, was cut off.' This is the interpretation of the clause (Art. I, Sec. 8), made at the time of its adoption alike by its authors and by its opponents, accepted by all the statesmen of that age, not open to dispute because too clear for argument, and never disputed so long as any one man who took part in framing the constitution remained alive." - George Bancroft-History of the U. S. of America-1886

32. "We are now taught to believe that...tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce but nothing..." - Thomas Jefferson-1816

33. "Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some....Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency....(It) does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose...." - John Maynard Keynes-The Economic Consequences of the Peace-1920

34. "We should avoid...the depreciation of our currency; but I conceive this end would be answered, as far as might be necessary, by stipulating that all money payments should be made in gold and silver, being the common medium of commerce." - George Washington

35. "It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the history of the time which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals. These were adopted by a permanent rule excluding the use of a perishable medium of exchange...or the still more pernicious expedient of paper currency." - Andrew Jackson-8th Annual Message to Congress

36. "...nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers, and destroyers press upon them so fast, that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon the American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour. The revenue creates pensioners, and the pensioners urge for more revenue. The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependents and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality, become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society." - John Adams

37. "This was a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money." [This statement referred to a proposed provision in Article I, Section 8, that would have read 'and emit bills of credit (paper money) of the United States,' which the Founders rejected by an overwhelming vote.] - James Madison- Notes of the Federal Convention 1787

38. "...there have always been those who wish to enlarge the powers of the General Government. There is but one safe rule...confine (it) within the sphere of its appropriate duties. It has no power to raise a revenue or impose taxes except for the purposes enumerated in the Constitution....Every attempt to exercise power beyond these limits should be promptly and firmly opposed." - Andrew Jackson's Valedictory

39. "...experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government), those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny; and it is believed that the most effectual means of preventing this would be, to illuminate...the minds of the people...to give them knowledge of those facts, which history exhibiteth. History, by apprizing them of the past, will enable them to judge of the future...it will qualify them as judges of the actions and designs of men; it will enable them to know ambition under every disguise it may assume; and knowing it, to defeat its views...." - Jefferson's Bill for the more general diffusion of knowledge for Virginia

40. "Although all men are born free, slavery has been the general lot of the human race. Ignorant--they have been cheated; asleep--they have been surprised; divided--the yoke has been forced upon them. But what is the lesson?...the people ought to be enlightened, to be awakened, to be united, that after establishing a government they should watch over it....It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently free." - James Madison

41. "These principles form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and the blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety." - Thomas Jefferson-First Inaugural Statement of Principles of Good Government


13 posted on 01/05/2014 8:23:57 AM PST by loveliberty2
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To: All
YEAR OF THE DUD--EDITED ObamaCare may take its place among Sasquatch, crop circles and the Loch Ness monster as one of the great hoaxes of all time.

Before the 2012 election, (some, not all) Americans swallowed hook, line and sinker Obama's con that they could, all at the same time: (1) keep their existing health plans, (2) keep their own doctors, (3) keep their 25-year-olds on the family health plan, (4) never be denied coverage for a costly pre-existing condition, (5) sign up instantaneously on a government Web site, (6) buy insurance only after becoming seriously ill, (7) save $2,500 in annual premiums as part of the bargain......(8) all without any new taxes on the middle class.

In 2013 (as Obamacare rolled out), the ruse was revealed. Voters learned that nothing is free, and that it’s impossible to get more coverage for more people at less cost. Plans were cancelled, doctors were dropped, premiums soared, and Web sites crashed. Medicare was raided. Taxes were raised on everything from medical devices to real estate sales. Medicaid enrollments spiraled.--snip-- (By Victor Davis Hanson)

SOURCE http://nypost.com/2014/01/04/the-year-of-the-dud/

14 posted on 01/05/2014 8:24:03 AM PST by Liz
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To: Kaslin

Obama was pissed because he couldn’t get Single Payer passed Congress.

Obamacare was concocted to destroy both the insurance and medical industry, leaving no option beyond Single Payer.


15 posted on 01/05/2014 8:24:36 AM PST by G Larry
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To: Kaslin

I represented an elderly woman who had undergone three knee replacement surgeries due to infection contracted in the first one. Medicare paid all medical bills which totaled 1.27 million dollars (at Medicare rates). This is an unusual but not rare situation. If insurers cannot limit their coverage that will soon bankrupt them they might as well close the doors. This is not insurance. I can only imagine the cost of treating AIDS patients.


16 posted on 01/05/2014 8:24:56 AM PST by Inwoodian
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To: loveliberty2

Bump to read after church.


17 posted on 01/05/2014 8:29:06 AM PST by NorseWood
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To: G Larry
amen!


18 posted on 01/05/2014 8:32:58 AM PST by MeshugeMikey ( a Safe..and Sane....2014 To All!)
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To: All
Here's an Hudson Institute scholar's remarkable prophecy a year and a half before the USSC's decision that O/Care is a tax....after Nov 2010 midterms, in which Democrats in Congress and in state legislatures suffered huge losses.....due to O/Care. In Commentary magazine, Tevi Troy wrote: "The Pyrrhic victory Democrats secured for themselves [when Obama signed ACA into law] may prove not to have been a victory at all but rather an ever-roiling, ongoing, and recurring act of political and ideological self-destruction."

===============================================

LOCK-STEPPING PARTY LOYALTY NOT SEEN SINCE 1940's ERA EUROPE Obama And The Dumbos marching in lockstep. The persistent Dumbocrat drumbeat ---- in obeisance to Obama ---- kept ringing reassuringly in our ears.

===================================================

As far back as 2008, at the presidential debate in Nashville, Democrat candidate Obama advanced his signature plan that was ultimately enacted (by an historic straight Democrat party-line vote) into the "Affordable Care Act :

OBAMA: "No. 1, let me just repeat, if you’ve got a health care plan that you like, you can keep it. All I’m going to do is help you to lower the premiums on it. You’ll still have choice of doctor.”

Repeated over and over ---- with the promise that every American would be saving $2500.00 on healthcare costs.

LOYAL DEMOCRATS CHIME IN all reading from the Suck-up Handbook:

SEN. HARRY REID (D-Nev.): “In fact, one of our core principles is that if you like the health care you have, you can keep it.” (Sen. Reid, Congressional Record, S.8642, 8/3/09)

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN: “We believe — and we stand by this — if you like your current health insurance plan, you will be able to keep it, plain and simple, straightforward.” (Sen. Durbin, Congressional Record, S.6401, 6/10/09)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): “If you like your insurance, you keep it.” (U.S. Senate, Finance Committee, Bill Mark-Up, 9/29/09)

SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-Wash.): “Again, if you like what you have, you will be able to keep it. Let me say this again: If you like what you have, when our legislation is passed and signed by the President, you will be able to keep it.” (Sen. Murray, Congressional Record, S.6400, 6/10/09)

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D-Mont.): “That is why one of the central promises of health care reform has been and is: If you like what you have, you can keep it. That is critically important. If a person has a plan, and he or she likes it, he or she can keep it.” (Sen. Baucus, Congressional Record, S.7676, 9/29/10)

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D-Iowa): “One of the things we put in the health care bill when we designed it was the protection for consumers to keep the plan they have if they like it; thus, the term ‘grandfathered plans.’ If you have a plan you like — existing policies — you can keep them. … we said, if you like a plan, you get to keep it, and you can grandfather it in.” (Sen. Harkin, Congressional Record, S.7675-6, 9/29/10)

THEN-REP. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-Wis.): “Under the bill, if you like the insurance you have now, you may keep it and it will improve.” (Rep. Baldwin, Press Release, 3/18/10)

SEN. MARK BEGICH (D-Alaska): “If you got a doctor now, you got a medical professional you want, you get to keep that. If you have an insurance program or a health care policy you want of ideas, make sure you keep it. That you can keep who you want.” (Sen. Begich, Townhall Event, 7/27/09)

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-Colo.): “We should begin with a basic principle: if you have coverage and you like it, you can keep it. If you have your doctor, and you like him or her, you should be able to keep them as well. We will not take that choice away from you.” (Sen. Bennet, Press Release, 6/11/09)

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D-Calif.): “So we Democrats want people to be able to keep the health care they have. And the answer to that is choice of plans. And in the exchange, we’re going to have lots of different plans, and people will be able to keep the health care coverage they need and they want.” (Sen. Boxer, Press Release, 2/8/11)

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-Ohio): “Our Democrat bill says if you have health insurance and you like it, you can keep it…”(Sen. Brown, Congressional Record, S.12612, 12/7/09)

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-Md.): “For the people of Maryland, this bill will provide a rational way in which they can maintain their existing coverage…” (Sen. Cardin, Congressional Record, S.13798, 12/23/09)

SEN. BOB CASEY (D-Pa.): “I also believe this Democrat legislation and the bill we are going to send to President Obama this fall will also have secure choices. If you like what you have, you like the plan you have, you can keep it. It is not going to change.” (Sen. Casey, Congressional Record, S.8070, 7/24/09)

SEN. KAY HAGAN (D-N.C.): ‘People who have insurance they’re happy with can keep it’ “We need to support the private insurance industry so that people who have insurance they’re happy with can keep it while also providing a backstop option for people without access to affordable coverage.” (“Republicans Vent As Other Compromise Plans Get Aired,” National Journal’s Congress Daily, 6/18/09)

SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D-La.): “If you like the insurance that you have, you’ll be able to keep it.” (MSNBC’s Hardball, 12/16/09)

SEN. PAT LEAHY (D-Vt.): “[I]f you like the insurance you now have, keep the insurance you have.” (CNN’s “Newsroom,” 10/22/09)

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-N.J.): “If you like what you have, you get to keep it” “Menendez is a member of the Senate Finance Committee, which is expected to release a bill later this week. He stressed that consumers who are satisfied with their plans won’t have to change. ‘If you like what you have, you get to keep it,’ he said.” (“Health Care Plan Would Help N.J., Menendez Says,” The Record, 6/19/09)

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-Oreg.): “[E]nsuring that those who like their insurance get to keep it” “The HELP Committee bill sets forward a historic Democrat plan that will, for the first time in American history, give every American access to affordable health coverage, reduce costs, and increase choice, while ensuring that those who like their insurance get to keep it.” (Sen. Merkley, Press Release, 7/15/09)

SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D-Md.): “It means that if you like the insurance you have now, you can keep it.” (Sen. Mikulski, Press Release, 12/24/09)

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-W.Va.): “I want people to know, the President’s promise that if you like the coverage you have today you can keep it is a pledge we intend to keep.” (U.S. Senate, Finance Committee, Hearing, 9/23/09)

SEN. JACK REED (D-R.I.): “If you like the insurance you have, you can choose to keep it.” (Sen. Reed, Town Hall Event, 6/25/09)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vt.): “‘If you have coverage you like, you can keep it,’ says Sen. Sanders.” (“Sick And Wrong,” Rolling Stone, 4/5/10)

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-N.H.): ‘if you have health coverage that you like, you get to keep it’ “My understanding … is that … if you have health coverage that you like you can keep it. As I said, you may have missed my remarks at the beginning of the call, but one of the things I that I said as a requirement that I have for supporting a Democrat bill is that if you have health coverage that you like you should be able to keep that. …under every scenario that I’ve seen, if you have health coverage that you like, you get to keep it.” (Sen. Shaheen, “Health Care Questions From Across New Hampshire,” Accessed 11/13/13)

SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D-Mich.): “As someone who has a large number of large employers in my state, one of the things I appreciate about the Democrat chairman’s remark is — is the grandfathering provisions, the fact that the people in my state, 60 percent of whom have insurance, are going to be able to keep it. And Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. That’s a strong commitment. It’s clear in the bill … I appreciate the strong commitment on your part and the president to make sure that if you have your insurance you can keep it. That’s the bottom line for me.” (U.S. Senate, Finance Committee, Bill Mark-Up, 9/24/09)

SEN. JON TESTER (D-Mont.): “‘If you like your coverage, you’ll be able to keep it,’ Tester said, adding that if Medicare changes, it will only become stronger”. (“Tester In Baker To Discuss Health Care,” The Fallon County Times, 11/20/09)

SEN. TOM UDALL (D-N.Mex.): “Some worried reform would alter their current coverage. It won’t. If you like your current plan, you can keep it.” (“What I Learned: About Health Care Reform This Summer, By Your Lawmakers In Congress,” Albuquerque Journal, 9/8/09)

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D-R.I.): “..it honors President Obama’s programs and the promise of all of the Presidential candidates that if you like the plan you have, you get to keep it. You are not forced out of anything.” (Sen. Whitehouse, Congressional Record, S.8668, 8/3/09)

Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) the 60th vote on Obamacare: "people who are happy with their current plan, wouldn't need to change it."

FRANKEN YOUTUBE SOUND BITE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCZmAYYNz8Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCZmAYYNz8I

19 posted on 01/05/2014 8:33:01 AM PST by Liz
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To: All

"Those Democrats leering over my shoulder owe me bigtime. This
healthcare bill insures we have a permanent Democratic majority."

" All except those Tea Party types swallowed hook, line and sinker my
promises that they could all (1) keep their existing health plans, (2)
keep their own doctors, (3) keep their 25-year-olds on the family health
plan, (4) never be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, (5) sign
up instantly on my government Web site, (6) buy insurance only after
becoming seriously ill."

And save $2,500 in annual premiums in the bargain....all without any new taxes."

20 posted on 01/05/2014 8:45:56 AM PST by Liz
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To: wmfights

“They didn’t and now 40, 60, 75 watt incandescent bulbs are being replaced with LED bulbs that are 10X more expensive, or fluorescent bulbs that are more expensive.”

A friend has several rental homes. When people leave now, they take all of the light bulbs.


21 posted on 01/05/2014 8:47:11 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Kaslin

It was put out to bring single payer. It might work.


22 posted on 01/05/2014 8:48:39 AM PST by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: dynoman

spanish american phone tax...

But your point is still spot on.


23 posted on 01/05/2014 9:04:44 AM PST by cableguymn (It's time for a second political party.)
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To: dynoman

Prohibition was repealed because it turned out that people did not like it. Since it was imposed by Constitutional Amendment, the bar to get rid of it was really, really high. It went away.

People like Social Security, they like Medicaid, and they even like the income tax. Our convoluted tax code is a product of endless accommodation for various interest groups who believe that they have won tax concessions at the expense of others. They like that. Moreover, Democrats have turned the tax code into an income redistribution scheme that benefits their constituents at the expense of their political enemies. Democrats love the income tax.

The Democrat Party thought that people would also love Obamacare and it would bring them perpetual political power. That’s why they passed something that not a single Republican supported (not true for Social Security, Medicare, or the income tax) and something that was not supported by the American people. They thought that we would learn to love it. They were wrong.

The high water mark of public approval for Obamacare has passed. People don’t like it. The law as it currently exists is going away. The Democrats are going to offer to fix it with a single payer system and the Republicans are going to argue for a return to something on the order of antibellum health care. The fight has just begun.


24 posted on 01/05/2014 9:11:52 AM PST by centurion316
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To: Huskrrrr

The Democrat-Socialists go on and on about the need for environmental sustainability ... but ignore the reality of economic sustainability. Just one more of the inumerable intellectual lies of the Left.


25 posted on 01/05/2014 9:15:13 AM PST by glennaro
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To: loveliberty2

Those f****rs were smart!


26 posted on 01/05/2014 9:17:14 AM PST by webheart (Watch out for the bots! They will disagree with you!)
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To: Kaslin
There are some winners, but most people are financial losers.

Obama and the socialist Democrats view politics as a "zero sum" game. If they win, they believe the other side must lose. They want to punish those who disagree with them.

In business, negotiators seek "win-win" solutions that benefit all parties. There was a time in America when politicians also sought win-win solutions. Obama, Reid and Pelosi want to win and in so doing inflict damage on the other side. The Democrats zero sum game is why Washington is so polarized.

27 posted on 01/05/2014 9:21:06 AM PST by Senator_Blutarski
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To: Kaslin

fubocare cannot succeed because of one simple fact...

yes i mean fact....

roberts ruling will never allow it to succeed..

for those who call me and roberts a traitor, jus a simple thing to do...

READ THE RULING....

but alas, no...

it is far easier to listen to rush “i am the light” limbaugh than to actually read and make your own decision...

hint, rush is a gop pundit, he just hides it better than most...


28 posted on 01/05/2014 9:32:24 AM PST by joe fonebone (a socialist is just a juvenile communist)
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To: Kaslin

There are several other glaring flaws in ACA.
- extensive premium subsidies mean nothing when deductibles are 4-6k for low income people. Providers will not waive deductibles or send out bills to low income patients for elective procedures and visits; payment will be required in full at the time of service. So, in order to afford the treatment, low income/ high deductible patients will probably stop paying premiums to get some treatment. And qualifying for Medicaid would take some time to show that your annual income meets the requirement.
-the HHS wants to force providers to meet specific demands such as EMR and outcomes analyses. Apparently, this dictate would apply to commercial plans in 2015. This will force many small clinics and providers to fold because of compliance costs.
-lower Medicare reimbursement. This applies mostly to small clinics and providers. These independents will eventually go one of 3 ways: retire early, concierge/self pay, work at a large hospital group. In each case, productivity will be lower, and this will create a shortage of providers for the pool of insured patients.
A lot of people are going to pay out of pocket or else go to the ER; bankruptcy to follow.


29 posted on 01/05/2014 9:42:54 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: Kaslin

Insurance pricing is pure math. Under the ACA, it’s the art of delusion.


30 posted on 01/05/2014 9:46:59 AM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: glennaro
Great point, so true!
31 posted on 01/05/2014 9:57:55 AM PST by Huskrrrr
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To: dynoman

“If you don’t believe that give me examples of anything the government passed as law that was later repealed.”

You are of course right. But the hard fact of the matter is, that the downside economics of all of these “laws” is that they will all fail without repeal. Worldwide, there isn’t enough economic activity to cover the costs of “freebies” that the world’s governments now “offer” their “citizens.” “Greece for Everyone” is looming on the horizon. So yes, the laws won’t be repealed, they will all fail along with the world economy. And it is coming a lot faster than anyone would like.


32 posted on 01/05/2014 10:44:34 AM PST by vette6387
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To: Kaslin

From Pookie's Toons.

So true.

33 posted on 01/05/2014 11:04:00 AM PST by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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To: Gen.Blather
A friend has several rental homes. When people leave now, they take all of the light bulbs.

I have the same problem and tenants complain they can't dim the lights anymore. My solution is to only put in 1 bulb in each fixture and to remind tenants that voting for Rats has consequences.

34 posted on 01/05/2014 12:04:10 PM PST by wmfights
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To: Kaslin
Why Obamacare Cannot Succeed...because of the fifteen percent of the population which didn't have insurance previously and were the excuse for this fiasco, most could have had insurance if they wanted it - they were either eligible for Medicaid and hadn't signed up, or could have afforded insurance but hadn't signed. These healthy types still won't sign, while the Medicaid eligible obviously are joining and those who were so ill previously that they couldn't get insurance are also signing up - thus the most needy and sick, who will require lots and lot s of funding, are the one flooding the program, while those relatively healthy who don't need insurance, but were being counted on to provide funding for everybody else, are still avoiding it - the need for more and more funds will skyrocket and eventually the program and/or the country will go bust - the seeds of its destruction were contained in its own creation.....
35 posted on 01/05/2014 1:45:54 PM PST by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Kaslin

It was never meant to work. Obama hi’self admitted such.


36 posted on 01/05/2014 1:51:09 PM PST by Organic Panic
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To: loveliberty2

Wow! Excellent post!!


37 posted on 01/05/2014 2:14:10 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: Rennes Templar; Vaduz; Kaslin

The purpose of insurance markets is to “price” risk, not ‘pool’ it.

That is something Rats don’t get.


38 posted on 01/05/2014 2:18:53 PM PST by 4Liberty (Mr President 'If you Like your college transcripts...can we see them?')
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To: loveliberty2
the economic dimension of liberty

That is, by far, one of the finest posts I've ever read on Free Republic. Please consider posting it as a vanity.

39 posted on 01/05/2014 3:24:38 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: SC_Pete

Neither was I ;^)


40 posted on 01/05/2014 3:30:50 PM PST by Go_Raiders (Freedom doesn't give you the right to take from others, no matter how innocent your program sounds.)
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To: Windflier; Nuc 1.1; NorseWood
Thank you!!

Please share if you wish.

The Founders understood human nature, and they warned of the dire consequences if "the People" who, according to Justice Story, are the "only Keepers" of the Constitution should fail in their duty to oversee those whom they elected as their representatives.

As we have allowed the so-called "progressive" regressives to systematically censor the Founders' ideas from our textbooks and public discourse over the past several decades, generations have grown up without understanding of their role as "watchmen on the walls of liberty."

Perhaps the blatant overreach of the current Administration, along with Reid, Pelosi and the other Democrat hierarchy with their coercive and abusive ACA have captured the attention of enough Americans that there will be a rediscovery of the Founders' wisdom and understanding of the nature of liberty and the means to preserve it.

Our best weapon is contained in our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution which leaves all the power in "the People's" hands. Read them, amplify upon their principles and ideas by accessing the Founders' writings and speeches.

For a quick review of those principles and the nation's first 50 years under its Constitution, consult John Quincy Adams' "Jubilee" Address here, or a recent reprint of a 1987 Bicentennial collection of the Founders' principles, here.

James Madison stated: "Although all men are born free, slavery has been the general lot of the human race. Ignorant—they have been cheated; asleep—they have been surprised; divided—the yoke has been forced upon them. But what is the lesson? ... the people ought to be enlightened, to be awakened, to be united, that after establishing a government, they should watch over it ... It is universally admitted that a well-instructed people alone can be permanently free." - James Madison

And, speaking of Justice Story:

"If these Commentaries shall but inspire in the rising generation a more ardent love of their country, an unquenchable thirst for liberty, and a profound reverence for the constitution and the Union, then they will have accomplished all, that their author ought to desire. Let the American youth never forget, that they possess a noble inheritance, bought by the toils, and sufferings, and blood of their ancestors; and capable, if wisely improved, and faithfully guarded, of transmitting to their latest posterity all the substantial blessings of life, the peaceful enjoyment of liberty, property, religion, and independence. The structure has been erected by architects of consummate skill and fidelity; its foundations are solid; its compartments are beautiful, as well as useful; its arrangements are full of wisdom and order; and its defences are impregnable from without. It has been reared for immortality, if the work of man may justly aspire to such a title. It may, nevertheless, perish in an hour by the folly, or corruption, or negligence of its only keepers, THE PEOPLE. Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them." - Justice Joseph Story, Final Paragraph of "Commentaries on the Constitution"

Note: Underlining added for emphasis

41 posted on 01/05/2014 4:16:26 PM PST by loveliberty2
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To: Go_Raiders

lol


42 posted on 01/05/2014 7:47:52 PM PST by SC_Pete
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To: grumpygresh
I'm not in favor of Obamacare but do like to point some things out for people who might be in a pinch and have no other option.

"extensive premium subsidies mean nothing when deductibles are 4-6k for low income people"

For most people with a silver plan getting premium subsidies, "cost-sharing" subsidies are available to lower deductibles and copays.

"Medicaid would take some time to show that your annual income meets the requirement."

Expanded Medicaid enrollment in my state is effective immediately. Don't even have to wait for the 1st of the month. "Stated income" is used for the initial qualification but they do follow up with verification!

43 posted on 01/05/2014 8:07:18 PM PST by steve86 (Some things aren't really true but you wouldn't be half surprised if they were.)
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To: Kaslin

It can succeed by government declaring it a “success”.


44 posted on 01/05/2014 9:47:23 PM PST by Theodore R. (People in TX in 2014: Cornball and George P.!)
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To: The Antiyuppie

HIPAA prohibits pre-existing condition exclusions for anyone going from one group health plan to another, or from a group health plan to individual coverage. For the last 20 years, many folks who thought they were job-trapped by their health just haven’t been aware of HIPAA. (Not surprising, really, those provisions have gotten very little publicity)


45 posted on 01/05/2014 10:00:14 PM PST by ArmstedFragg (hoaxy dopey changey)
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To: Kaslin
1. The lifting of lifetime caps on benefits: The insurance companies never did this because they cannot calculate what their potential outlays would be in the future to be able to estimate what should be properly charged to policy holders. They are shooting at an unknown and moving target. They now have no choice but to jack up premiums to cover the potential costs.

A fundamental difficulty with health insurance as compared to other forms is that it is expected that insurers for cars, homes, etc. all have fixed worst-case obligations. If someone crashes their car in a fashion which would cost $15,000 to fix, but the car was only worth $2,000 before the accident and the damaged wreck is worth $500 as salvage, the insurance company won't be out $15,000, but only a tenth of that. Requiring car insurance companies in such situations to pay the $15,000 repair bills would make insurance vastly more expensive.

That having been said, health insurance has sufficiently poorly defined casualty events (e.g. if someone switches carriers, the new carrier will often be on the hook for on-going expenses stemming from conditions that developed while the old policy was in effect) that the way lifetime limits are implemented doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense.

46 posted on 01/06/2014 12:09:33 AM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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Obamacare is largely an EO.


47 posted on 01/06/2014 12:13:43 AM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: The Antiyuppie

“Health insurance and the medical industry have been going to hell for 30 years and anyone reading this who is more than 50 years old knows this to be absolutely true.”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I suspect that the first step on that road to hell was the passage of Medicare in 1965. I can still recall reading a report shortly after the beginnings of medicare saying that a person who went into the hospital would have a medicare copay larger than the entire bill had been before medicare.

I recall a time when you could walk into a doctor’s office, sign in without an appointment and they would “work you in”, you could usually see the doctor within an hour or two and pay five dollars for the visit. I seldom needed to see a doctor then but when I did I literally paid with pocket change. Medical care, like nearly everything else works far better without government interference. It has been said that government is only good at two things, waging war and inflating the currency. These days it only seems to be good at the latter.


48 posted on 01/06/2014 7:24:51 PM PST by RipSawyer (The TREE currently falling on you actually IS worse than a Bush.)
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To: 4Liberty

Indeed


49 posted on 01/07/2014 8:13:13 AM PST by Vaduz
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