Robert E. Lee: American Patriot and Southern Hero

Cumming Home ^ | January 7, 2014 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

[stinkerpot65]

My wife would agree with you on the second part, but my “rock solid virtue” part would give her considerable pause, or at least a rolling of the eyes.

[onedoug]

“Form for battle!”

[12th_Monkey]

thought police will be on site to ticket attendees.

[ZULU]

Thank you.

[rockrr]

The South was Right.

Owning other human beings is uber cool?

[ZULU]

Thanks. I will check him out. I got him confused with John Bell Hood.

I remember reading somewhere that Moseley tried to make a successful turnover after the war and actually became an attorny and a Republican.

[DManA]

I don’t hate him. It’s just that he was literally a traitor and broke sacred oaths he took. I don’t find anything about him admirable.

[mc5cents]

Having said that, things could've had a decisively different outcome if REL had listened to Longstreet. All his other accomplishments notwithstanding, coming across that much open ground was madness.

Totally agree. I have been to Gettysburg and stood looking across that field and thought to myself, what kind of men were these who would cross that field in the open against withering fire? It certainly was a different time and age that's for sure.

[Michael.SF.]

Good comments. One more to consider:

If Longstreet had made sure to commit... (if) Stewart been successful...

One more 'if':

If the cannonade that proceeded Pickett's charge had found their target, instead of missing with overhead shots that did little damage.

[Ditter]

I am always interested in people's screen names. Isn't stinkerpot another name for chamber pot? You know, that pot that was kept under the bed in case of a night time emergency?

Can't imagine why you would name yourself that but in case you are wondering, Ditter is baby talk for sister.

[Leaning Right]

But by any criteria Lee was a great American, and a decent man of moral courage who found himself in a difficult and troubling position.

I suppose Lee was in a situation much like Erwin Rommel was. Lee was certainly aware of the horrors of slavery. And Rommel was certainly aware of how the German Jews were being treated (kristallnacht, etc.)

Eventually, Rommel entered into a violent conspiracy against his government. Had the south won the war, would Lee have done the same?

[Lowell1775]

Don’t believe the Cliff notes and Weekly Reader version of the Second American Civil War (the revolution being the first).

It reasons were as varied as the men who chose to fight it.

The states seceded in this order

1. South Carolina (December 20, 1860)
2. Mississippi (January 9, 1861)
3. Florida (January 10, 1861)
4. Alabama (January 11, 1861)
5. Georgia (January 19, 1861)
6. Louisiana (January 26, 1861)
7. Texas (February 1, 1861; confirmed by popular vote on February 23)

These states were by and large controlled by a very small slave holding elite.

Ft. Sumter (April 12) and then Lincoln’s call up of 75,000 troops to invade his own country (April 15).
Remember, Lincoln was elected with only 39.7% of the popular vote and 17 of 34 states. Two of Lincoln’s states were CA and OR with tiny populations and totally detached by what was then considered a desert of Indians and grass.

In response to and tipped over by the Federal government’s plan to invade its own states....

8. Virginia (April 17; referendum May 23, 1861)
9. Arkansas (May 6)
10. Tennessee (May 7; referendum June 8)
11. North Carolina (May 20)

Other states who might have joined the South’s resistance such as Maryland, Delaware, Missouri were short stroked by Federal occupation and targeted mass arrests of secessionists. Kentucky declared neutrality but was quickly invaded by Federal forces as local militias declared for the South.

Not to mention the tariff fights, the same basic cultural war being fought today, the ongoing Federalist vs anti-Federalist arguments, and a dozen other reasons including opportunism in both the Northern and Southern leadership.

Jefferson Davis had an adopted black son. US Grant owned slaves through his wife until 1866. Lincoln thought blacks inferior and that they should be resettled in Africa, not given equal rights. In effect, the radical abolitionist Republicans were the “gay activist’s” of their day. A tiny minority well connected to leadership and vocal. The large slave owners likewise hid behind states’ rights as they stitched together a diverse coalition of anti-federalists.

Like today, many groups and interests were used as a pawns/strike forces in a much larger struggle.

Karl Rove and his chalk board would have loved it. Go figure.

[matginzac]

And, in retirement, he always marched out of sync in a parade...
I get the haters...and ignore them. Too many apply today’s PC crap to the past...if you love history, you never fall into that trap.
One of the many reasons I love FR is that many of us understand and love history...good company to keep!

[ZULU]

He wasn’t a traitor.

Lee’s primary allegiance like that of so many people back then, was to his state - Virginia. Even in the Union army troops were organized on the state level.

Lee was in a very troubling position - fight with the North against his own state, neighbors and family or surrender his position in the U.S. Military.

I don’t think we should question his morality or ethics and I certainly would no more accuse him of being a traitor than I would accuse southerners who fought with the Union of being traitors to the south. It was a troubling time with few good answers.

[DManA]

I don’t question the morality of breaking your oath. It is unmistakably wrong. And when he did it he sacrificed any pretense to honor.

[ZULU]

Right. Another IF.

I still think that if all the ifs played out right he would have won and Lee had a reputation of being a gambler and hard fighter on the battlefield.

[ZULU]

Had the south won the war, would Lee have done the same?

I think he would have opposed it. Eventually it would have collapsed of its own dead weight. It was not cost effective and the Zeitgeist was against it.

[DoodleDawg]

Remember, Lincoln was elected with only 39.7% of the popular vote and 17 of 34 states.

Woodrow Wilson was elected with only 41% of the vote and Clinton with only 43%. But like Lincoln they won solid majorities in the Electoral College.

[rockrr]

And just remember - if you forget to post something today bigreb will post this in a duplicate thread in a few days! ;’)

[matginzac]

Yes, Mosby served in congress after the war and it made yankee heads explode. He, too, has a great story. My kid lives near Front Royal, VA and when we visit, I love to imagine Mosby and his raiders riding throughout the country side..neat. Mosby is buried in Winchester, VA.
Gen Hood’s story is great too.
A book I recommend for those who REALLY want to learn more and get a better inside view is “A Dixie Diary” by Mary Chesnutt. It’s a contemporary view of the times and, though it may be seen as a chick book, it’s really good at giving you a look at what folks went through during the war. Hampton and Hood as well as Davis were friends of her and her husband.