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Jahi McMath: Family says brain-dead teen's body may be too deteriorated to save
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 06 Jan 14 | Lisa M. Krieger and David DeBolt

Posted on 01/07/2014 9:43:49 AM PST by Drew68

A day after winning the three-week battle to take their brain-dead daughter from Children's Hospital Oakland, the family of Jahi McMath conceded Monday they are losing the ghastly war against nature.

Her body, checked in at an undisclosed care facility Monday morning, has deteriorated so badly, that "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it," said attorney Christopher Dolan.

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "What I can tell you is that those examinations show that her medical condition, separate from the brain issue, is not good."

Dolan's frank and sober assessment echoes a Friday legal declaration by Children's Hospital Oakland critical care pediatrician Dr. Heidi R. Flori, who opposed surgical insertion of a feeding tube because the girl's body was deteriorating.

(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deathpanels; jahimcmath; mcmath; medicalabuse; starvation; waronchildren
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Many of the questions asked on other threads on this topic about the effects of brain death to a body and how long life support can be maintained are explained in this article.
1 posted on 01/07/2014 9:43:49 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

She was starved for 27 days.


2 posted on 01/07/2014 9:45:56 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Drew68

This is all so sad. I know how the parents must be feeling.


3 posted on 01/07/2014 9:45:59 AM PST by billhilly (Has Pelosi read it yet?)
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To: Drew68

There is NO ONE more Pro-Life than me. In this case I would advise the family to cease all external processes and comfort this child and let her into Jesus’ Welcoming Arms. Sad Situation Indeed.


4 posted on 01/07/2014 9:47:29 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Drew68
IMO, if there is proved brain death and the body can not sustain itself without machines, game over.

If this wasn't a child there would have probably been a living will in place before this operation.

Tragedy, but the parents have dragged this out and tortured themselves more than they needed to IMO.

My prayers and best wishes to the family.

5 posted on 01/07/2014 9:47:32 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Drew68

My heart goes out to them.


6 posted on 01/07/2014 9:48:47 AM PST by null and void (It is as if they all had one head. Too bad they don’t all have one neck.)
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To: cripplecreek

She was brain dead for longer than 27 days.


7 posted on 01/07/2014 9:49:04 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: US Navy Vet

The child has already went on to Jesus. Its a tragedy but she was dead after her heart stopped and the ensuing brain damage.

This is only about the body.


8 posted on 01/07/2014 9:50:29 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Drew68

Continued Prayers for Jahi and her family..


9 posted on 01/07/2014 9:50:36 AM PST by DivineMomentsOfTruth ("Give me Liberty or I'll stand up and get it for myself!")
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To: cripplecreek
She was starved for 27 days.

Read the article. This has nothing to do with it. Her brain is completely dead and has been ever since she went into cardiac arrest. Her body couldn't have absorbed nutrition even if they had fed her.

10 posted on 01/07/2014 9:52:59 AM PST by Drew68
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To: billhilly

They should have accepted reality in the form of expert medical professionals’ declarations: their daughter is dead and has been so for some weeks.


11 posted on 01/07/2014 9:53:00 AM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: driftdiver

Last time I checked there was more to the body than just the brain.


12 posted on 01/07/2014 9:53:11 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Why yes there is. Can the body survive without the brain? has someone invented an artificial brain?

This is a tragedy but we all die.


13 posted on 01/07/2014 9:54:41 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: cripplecreek
She was starved for 27 days.

In addition to being denied antibiotics for a serious infection, for the purpose of causing organ failure.

14 posted on 01/07/2014 9:56:11 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Drew68

In THIS case, the poor girl has no brain activity, and is only alive because of mechanical ventilation. There are cases, like this, where death has already occurred. Modern medicine is a blessing and a curse. There now exists the ability to keep a the body alive of someone who is well and truly dead. This is a very sad situation.


15 posted on 01/07/2014 9:57:50 AM PST by LeonardFMason (LanceyHoward would AGREE)
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To: gas_dr; goodwithagun

Ping. Lots of interesting medical info in the main story.


16 posted on 01/07/2014 9:58:29 AM PST by Drew68
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To: Drew68

This story is so sad.

I know it is horrible what the family has to go through, but had they let her go earlier they might have taken some comfort knowing she could have saved another innocent child from death by donating her organs when it was much more feasible to do so.

That would have been some comfort to me at least.


17 posted on 01/07/2014 10:01:32 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: A CA Guy
IMO, if there is proved brain death and the body can not sustain itself without machines, game over.

I'm not a medical expert so I cannot comment that way, but I lost my younger brother to a massive brain aneurysm in August of 2012, and have family with medical backgrounds who went through painstaking detail in explaining to me how my brother's body was shutting itself down after brain death - despite being on life support.

Once the brain stops functioning and communicating with the rest of the body, it's only a matter of time before major organ failure sets in. Either way, death is imminent. It's just a question of time.

I certainly have sympathy for Jahi's family. I agree with you that it's a tragedy that they've dragged this out so long and tortured themselves. No one wants to lose their child -- especially after a surgical procedure that's so routine that it's literally inconceivable that someone would die because of it.

18 posted on 01/07/2014 10:01:56 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: driftdiver
I'm not sure if she went on to Jesus if she wasn't baptized and there hasn't yet been a funeral for her. It is my personal belief that some souls hang around for awhile. Does anybody really go to Jesus until after the final judgment?

Anyway, there is a doctor who was brain dead, claimed to go to heaven. It's on YT somewhere. He came back and tells what he saw.

Our local talk host says he wasn't in heaven even though he claims he was. I'm going to try to take time to call and ask him why he holds that opinion.

St. Paul said he was caught up into the third heaven and it wasn't lawful to tell what he saw.

I do understand that the deceased could be on a vastly different timeline, like there is no time; everything is now.

19 posted on 01/07/2014 10:02:34 AM PST by Aliska
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To: US Navy Vet
There is NO ONE more Pro-Life than me. In this case I would advise the family to cease all external processes and comfort this child and let her into Jesus’ Welcoming Arms. Sad Situation Indeed.

Christians believe we must respect life until its natural end. From everything I have heard, this poor girl's life has already reached its natural end some time ago. She is being sustained by machines and she would quickly pass away if not for very active mechanical and medical support. I don't believe this is a "right to life" issue, but of course am willing to be corrected.

20 posted on 01/07/2014 10:04:08 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Abathar
That would have been some comfort to me at least.

We know my brother's heart saved someone's life. Despite his passing and missing him terribly that gives me some comfort.

21 posted on 01/07/2014 10:04:14 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Navy Patriot
From the article:

She's also getting antibiotics to combat a possible infection.

22 posted on 01/07/2014 10:05:09 AM PST by LucyT ( If you're NOT paranoid, you don't know what's going on.)
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To: Drew68

And what the family refuses to acknowledge is what ALL of the docs have said all along…. her brain is dead, her body is dead. Keeping machines going that pump oxygen into the lungs does not change that fact


23 posted on 01/07/2014 10:06:06 AM PST by Nifster
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To: usconservative

Part of them lives on is how I see it.


24 posted on 01/07/2014 10:06:14 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: cripplecreek

No. She has been DEAD for 27 days


25 posted on 01/07/2014 10:06:44 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Drew68
One comment after the article:

"some of the people that are saying the mother is holding on long enough for parental negligence in post operation care evidence to disappear. - They are desperate to blame the hospital."

26 posted on 01/07/2014 10:08:01 AM PST by LucyT ( If you're NOT paranoid, you don't know what's going on.)
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To: usconservative

I think the honest issue is that it there are not endless supplies of breathing machines to help living people much less one who is dead.
I can see if it were used a bit to harvest organs for others, but beyond that it is hurting others who need the equipment to monopolize it for a dead person.

That is the other issue, the family does not want to accept she is dead and is that justification to monopolize equipment the living need.


27 posted on 01/07/2014 10:08:12 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: usconservative

I am sorry for your loss. Your words show an incredible ability to be both compassionate and accurate at the same time. Thank you for sharing with us


28 posted on 01/07/2014 10:09:25 AM PST by Nifster
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To: A CA Guy
the family does not want to accept she is dead and is that justification to monopolize equipment the living need.

I won't pretend to know what is in Jahi's family's hearts and minds - other than the grief they're going through must be excruciating beyond belief. As I said above, no one expects a child to die as a result of a routine surgical procedure that's so common it's literally unthinkable that one could die from it.

I cannot imagine the shock that they must have experienced to put them in the state they're in and I can only hope and pray that I never experience it.

Our family lost my younger brother in August 2012 due to a brain aneurysm. He was literally dead before he hit the floor. While tragic and shocking to our family, I don't think I could compare it to losing a child. A childs death goes against the natural order of things.

29 posted on 01/07/2014 10:15:24 AM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Drew68

What about those who wake-up after years and years in a coma? Is that even possible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-187920/Coma-man-wakes-19-years.html

This is hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_nZswGNg74


30 posted on 01/07/2014 10:15:31 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill

There are enormous differences between coma, persistent vegetative state, and brain death.

Certain modern medical practices don’t prolong life, they prolong dying. I fail to see that as somehow an advancement.


31 posted on 01/07/2014 10:20:50 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: usconservative

I agree with you about the poor family, but this was kind of made political because of the endless use of the machine the family wanted.
I respect the loss, pain and all that and the hospitals are made to look cruel as they try to get the machine for other living people, but there are just so many machines like that and there are so many others in need that want a chance for life that could maybe make it.

I do think this is a sad lose / lose situation here.


32 posted on 01/07/2014 10:23:10 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: LucyT
From the article:

She's also getting antibiotics to combat a possible infection.

She's getting antibiotics now, in care directed by her family, but there is no definitive declaration in the article that she was getting them at the hospital before she was moved. Read carefully, they let you assume that she was.

33 posted on 01/07/2014 10:24:25 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: cripplecreek

Oh my God. How sad.


34 posted on 01/07/2014 10:33:10 AM PST by PatriotGirl827 (O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee)
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To: Navy Patriot

There is also no definitive declaration that there is an infection.


35 posted on 01/07/2014 10:34:54 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people's than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: cripplecreek

that is the family’s line

a dead body can’t digest nutrients

nothing about this body was working except oxygenation via machine and heartbeat, eventually the other organs start to rot


36 posted on 01/07/2014 10:36:09 AM PST by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: Drew68

Yes the body could absorb nutrition, either parenterally, or via G-tube. Metabolism is still ongoing outside of the brain, or there wouldn’t be debates like this.


37 posted on 01/07/2014 10:38:14 AM PST by heartwood
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To: LucyT
"some of the people that are saying the mother is holding on long enough for parental negligence in post operation care evidence to disappear. - They are desperate to blame the hospital."

The irony is that the longer they keep her on life support, the more difficult it will be for an autopsy to determine what, if anything, the hospital did wrong.

38 posted on 01/07/2014 10:38:59 AM PST by Drew68
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To: LucyT

what parental negligence? I don’t think Jahi ever left the hospital.


39 posted on 01/07/2014 10:39:21 AM PST by heartwood
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To: US Navy Vet

The family can’t comfort her any more. She left on the 12th of Dec.. As sad as it is, that’s what happened. Her family now should give her body some dignity, lay it to rest and allow others to comfort them.


40 posted on 01/07/2014 10:39:54 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal (Go, Cruz! Go!)
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To: heartwood

It’s been suggested that her family indulged her want of food even though she was not supposed to eat anything, therefore causing the bleeding problem that led to her death.


41 posted on 01/07/2014 10:43:12 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people's than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: OldPossum

The mother said that even if an outside doctor says she is brain dead, they will not stop trying to “save” her. They are either delusional, in denial, ignorant or greedy (or a combination of same).


42 posted on 01/07/2014 10:46:25 AM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Supposedly, the family has not given the hospital permission to speak. It appears HIPAA continues after death. Therefore, we get the self-serving statements of their shyster lawyer and the family versus mostly silence from the hospital.


43 posted on 01/07/2014 10:51:37 AM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: PghBaldy

Health Information of Deceased Individuals

45 CFR 160.103, paragraph (2)(iv) of the definition of “protected health information”

Background

The HIPAA Privacy Rule protects the individually identifiable health information about a decedent for 50 years following the date of death of the individual

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/decedents.html


44 posted on 01/07/2014 10:53:08 AM PST by PghBaldy (12/14 - 930am -rampage begins... 12/15 - 1030am - Obama's advance team scouts photo-op locations.)
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To: Sherman Logan

“...enormous differences between coma, persistent vegetative state, and brain death.”

Good point. Even with all the medical people in my immediate and extended family, I hadn’t even thought about it in those terms.


45 posted on 01/07/2014 10:57:23 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: heartwood

She came to in recovery, asked for a popsicle. Soon, she started to bleed from the mouth. The grandmother, a nurse, demanded a suction tube for the blood to be suctioned out of her mouth. She should never have been talking, asking for a popsicle, etc.. If that process was initiated by the mother, there are troubles afoot.


46 posted on 01/07/2014 11:01:39 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal (Go, Cruz! Go!)
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To: Drew68

This means they will dialing the lawyers right after they bury her.


47 posted on 01/07/2014 11:03:30 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: goodwithagun
There is also no definitive declaration that there is an infection.

You are correct. The surgery it's self was for sleep apnea, not for tonsil infection. The only source for information of infection so far is Dolan.

Typically, bedridden, immobile patients that have endured severe stress occurrence are prone to infection, but there is no released confirmation, that I can find, in this case, at this time.

48 posted on 01/07/2014 11:12:43 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: PghBaldy

Yep, see my #48.


49 posted on 01/07/2014 11:16:12 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: PGR88; US Navy Vet
I think you're right here, PGR88.

Jahi McMath's situation is radically different from that of Terri Schiavo. Mrs. Schiavo was an otherwise-healthy woman with all systems working just fine, except for her severe brain injury which apparently shut down her cognitive capacities. She was not "brain-dead" nor even dying, not in pain, able to breathe and maintain homeostasis on her own. She was deprived of food/water in order to kill her--- and that was murder most intentional.

In Jahi's case, she suffered cardiac arrest and total, irreversible death of the entire brain, including brain stem, weeks ago. There has no been any blood circulation to the brain or any electrical activity in the brain for weeks. They are simply ventilating a corpse.

This is the unanimous finding of the hospital doctors, and the outside doctors who were chosen and brought in at the parents' request.

Her parents need to remove the tubes and wires and give their much-loved daughter's mortal remains a respectful, prayerful interment.

50 posted on 01/07/2014 11:16:28 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Eternal rest grant unto her, O Lord, and may perpetual Light shine upon her.")
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