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Jahi McMath: Family says brain-dead teen's body may be too deteriorated to save
San Jose Mercury News ^ | 06 Jan 14 | Lisa M. Krieger and David DeBolt

Posted on 01/07/2014 9:43:49 AM PST by Drew68

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To: cripplecreek

from the looks of things she wasn’t in god shape to begin with, starving her only accelerated the wasting away..

I cannot imagine having to pull the plug on one of my children, but Jahi died 27 days ago. It’s unfortunate that her parents refused to accept it at the time.

We all know that doctor’s bury their mistakes. An autopsy would have revealed why she died, and more importantly negligence, if there was any.


51 posted on 01/07/2014 11:35:48 AM PST by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: cripplecreek
She was starved for 27 days.

Her soul entered Heaven 28 days ago.

52 posted on 01/07/2014 11:44:06 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: Aliska
Anyway, there is a doctor who was brain dead, claimed to go to heaven. It's on YT somewhere. He came back and tells what he saw.

No one has ever recovered from clinical brain (cerebellum or brain stem) death. No one in modern medical history that is. Lazarus and Jesus are are two historical examples that we know of, however.

53 posted on 01/07/2014 11:47:14 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: carriage_hill; Sherman Logan
“...enormous differences between coma, persistent vegetative state, and brain death.”
Good point. Even with all the medical people in my immediate and extended family, I hadn’t even thought about it in those terms.

Here you go. This needs to be read by everyone before commenting on this case. She has been diagnosed a half dozen times, 3 by the hospital, 1 by an independent doctor, 1 by a doctor recommended by the family's attorney, and someone else.

She is brain dead. Her brain at this point is liquified and either draining out her nose, or is a large watery cyst. Her organs are decomposing. Her eyeballs look like raisins and the interior of her mucous linings are crawling with bacterial decomposition and stench.

The saddest part of this case is that she could have saved a half dozen or more people with her organs, her skin, her cornea, hair, cartilige, bone marrow, etc. had the family listened to the hospital. Now, from what I understand, she may be too far gone to even embalm (Freeper morticians and/or Army 92M can correct me on that statement).

One blessing in this case is that my wife and I, and our clients have been reviewing their family estate trusts to make sure that everyone's wishes are known if the unthinkable happen. On a personal level, if my brother, my uncle, and another doctor come to the same medical conclusion, immediately prep my body for organ donation so that my last act will be giving something to someone who needs it.

Anyways, please MASH HERE to read about the diffrences between coma, vegetative states, and clinical brain death

54 posted on 01/07/2014 11:58:57 AM PST by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: Drew68

Goodness gracious! Those posters on the back wall are Soviet era propoganda prop look-alikes!


55 posted on 01/07/2014 11:59:18 AM PST by definitelynotaliberal (Go, Cruz! Go!)
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To: goodwithagun

“There is also no definitive declaration that there is an infection.”

I think an infection starts after a period on that machine. My husband was put on one and he had no infection at the time (he had cancer). After being on the machine a few days, he developed an infection and we had to wear gowns and masks to go in the room from then on. He was not dead at the time he was put on the machine and not dead when they took it off.


56 posted on 01/07/2014 12:10:18 PM PST by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.))
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To: Marcella
I think an infection starts after a period on that machine. My husband was put on one and he had no infection at the time (he had cancer). After being on the machine a few days, he developed an infection and we had to wear gowns and masks to go in the room from then on.

The article explains why this happens:


57 posted on 01/07/2014 12:18:26 PM PST by Drew68
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To: DCBryan1

Thanks, there are various stages (depths?) of coma, PVS and brain death.

The problem is that to the average person they look very much alike.

However, people who have been in comas, sometimes for years, wake up all the time. Even from PVS.

AFAIK, nobody has ever recovered from true brain death.


58 posted on 01/07/2014 12:23:12 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: heartwood
Metabolism is still ongoing outside of the brain, or there wouldn’t be debates like this.

Again, from the article:


59 posted on 01/07/2014 12:25:49 PM PST by Drew68
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To: definitelynotaliberal

It was also suggested that another parent in the ICU saw the mother give her a cheeseburger while making her talk and laugh. Also the grandmother took it upon herself to start suctioning the blood.


60 posted on 01/07/2014 12:40:52 PM PST by windcliff
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To: Drew68

“You’re applying abnormal pressure to keep the lungs open and functioning, which creates small tears in the lining of the air sacs and bronchial tree, opening up the possibility of infection.”

Thanks. I felt it was something that machine caused. I didn’t read that article, been seeing the problem on the news. I didn’t read it because I’m still touchy about my own husband’s death and prefer not to read about other people being that ill as it just brings back his death in 2011, two years ago.


61 posted on 01/07/2014 12:46:02 PM PST by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today. I am a Christian, not a Muslim.))
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To: Drew68

People who are brain dead can recover.

http://www.notdeadyet.org/2008/03/brain-dead-man-comes-alive-miracle.html

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/05/11/husband-celebrates-miracle-brain-dead-wife-wakes-hospital/

http://archive.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=498009

In 1997 I lost my mother due to Brain Hemorrhage. The doctor came in showing us her X-ray of her brain. It showed a large void just a dark blank space on her brain. My older brother decided to keep mother on the ventilator until everyone can come and see her. One of my cousin including me notice she had a very faint blink, but my brother got mad at me, and told me to accept it. That time came and the nurse came in and she started inject something into her IV. My brother asked her what was that for. The nurse stated it was so my mother would NOT FEEL pain. I looked at her and thought “NOT FEEL PAIN...I thought she was brain dead?”. I turned to my brother and gave him this look. Being the youngest I kept my mouth shut. I did not feel my mother spirit left her body, don’t ask but I can sense it. It wasn’t until after half an hour I felt it did. All these years I have always carried this guilt with me and will be with me until God calls me home.

As with this little Angel. I do not sense her spirit has totally left her body. It has been coming and going. Now that damage has been done to the body worse, I pray that she goes to her Heavenly Father.


62 posted on 01/07/2014 12:51:00 PM PST by Patriot Babe
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To: Patriot Babe
People who are brain dead can recover.

No. They do not. The two American cases you cite were of people who were not truly brain dead. Australia uses different criteria for brain death than American doctors do.

People in Jahi's condition, who are truly brain dead, do not recover.

63 posted on 01/07/2014 1:22:09 PM PST by Drew68
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To: DCBryan1

Many thanks for the explanation.


64 posted on 01/07/2014 1:46:23 PM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: DCBryan1
I believe that guy said he flatlined but I don't feel like looking up the video. I tend to agree with you. I have heard about a little girl that drowned and was taken to the hosp morgue, her mom couldn't handle it and pleaded with Jesus to save her daughter. He did; the morgue attendant noticed she was alive. But there was nothing about her brain function because I think some people are just pronounced dead without that.

There was a young teen, on respirator, whatever else. They were getting ready to harvest his organs. The grandmother went with the family to do what families do in those circumstances. When she got in the room, the grandmother called on Jesus to let him live. He did. When he could communicate he told how distressed he was that they were going to harvest his organs, so his consciousness was somewhere taking it in. It took him some time to fully recover.

My sense is that nothing is impossible with God but when a story is so public like that, it's not going to happen nor is it with anybody who has flatlined. The above two cases are the only ones I know about and I can't say that they totally flatlined.

The centurian's daughter, the widow of Naim's son, Elijah saved a widow's son.

They changed the definition of death to brain flatlining rather than heart ceasing to beat. But life support keeps a heart beating. I don't know if they did it so they could harvest organs or what. I know that is one big thing to declare a person brain dead so they can do that if given permission.

65 posted on 01/07/2014 2:20:02 PM PST by Aliska
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To: PghBaldy

Re your post #42, my money is on all four, with an accent on “ignorant.”


66 posted on 01/07/2014 2:22:10 PM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: Drew68

She’s dead gibbs


67 posted on 01/07/2014 2:28:53 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Travon... Felony assault and battery hate crime)
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To: windcliff; definitelynotaliberal
It was also suggested that another parent in the ICU saw the mother give her a cheeseburger while making her talk and laugh. Also the grandmother took it upon herself to start suctioning the blood.

Wonder what kind of "nurse" qualifications the grandmother has? Almost everyone who has ever applied a Band-Aid likes to call themselves "nurse".

68 posted on 01/07/2014 3:04:32 PM PST by LucyT ( If you're NOT paranoid, you don't know what's going on.)
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To: cripplecreek

‘her medical condition, SEPARATE from the brain issue, is not good.”’

Perhaps if they did not deny her treatment, and nourishment, her body would have been in so much better shape. I believe it would.


69 posted on 01/07/2014 5:35:49 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: definitelynotaliberal; US Navy Vet

The “experts” are not always correct, which is why we should give every human being every chance.

Here’s just a couple of examples, where the “experts” were wrong:

“For example, in 2008 Zack Dunlap was declared brain-dead after an ATV accident based on exactly the same criterion offered in Jahi’s case: a PET scan revealed that he had no blood flowing to his brain. His body was prepared for organ harvesting, but alert family members were able to elicit behavioral signs that showed he was anything but brain dead. Forty-eight days later, Zack walked out of a rehab center and went home.

Colleen Burns was another example of how fallible a medical diagnosis of brain death can be. Admitted to a hospital in Syracuse, New York, after a drug overdose, she, like Zack Dunlap, was declared brain dead and prepared for organ harvesting. She woke up on the operating table shortly before the operation began, and was discharged shortly thereafter.”

Read more: Remember the Humanity of Jahi McMath | TIME.com http://ideas.time.com/2014/01/07/remember-the-humanity-of-jahi-mcmath/#ixzz2plc3UXVN


70 posted on 01/07/2014 5:45:12 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Sun

A corpse can neither be treated nor nourished back to life. Please see the other four or five threads, in addition to this one, to become educated on why she is (very sadly) dead. She is with Him, and has been for weeks now.


71 posted on 01/07/2014 7:05:34 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people's than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Sun
“For example, in 2008 Zack Dunlap was declared brain-dead after an ATV accident based on exactly the same criterion offered in Jahi’s case: a PET scan revealed that he had no blood flowing to his brain.

A PET scan apparently was the only test performed on Zach Dunlap to come up with the diagnosis of brain death but because his brain was swollen, PET scans are often not reliable. Again the hospital did not follow standards and procedures. Jahi has on the other hand been confirmed to be brain dead, not just by a PET scan but a multitude of other tests performed by several doctors including one not affiliated with Children’s Hospital appointed by the court and over the course of, not hours or days but over several weeks.

Here is an informative article written by a neurologist who discusses why and what may have been the problems with Dunlap’s case.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/brain-dead/

Colleen Burns was another example of how fallible a medical diagnosis of brain death can be. Admitted to a hospital in Syracuse, New York, after a drug overdose, she, like Zack Dunlap, was declared brain dead and prepared for organ harvesting. She woke up on the operating table shortly before the operation began, and was discharged shortly thereafter.”

She was not declared brain dead, she was thought to have undergone “cardiac death” but all in all, proper procedures were not followed and several mistakes were made, the hospital was fined but this was not a case of someone who was actually and properly diagnosed as being brain dead by several neurologists using multiple tests, coming back to life.

Patient Colleen S. Burns was reportedly admitted into St. Joseph's emergency department in 2009 after overdosing on Xanax, Benadryl and a muscle relaxant. Hospital notes obtained by the Post-Standard revealed that the doctors thought she had undergone "cardiac death." After doctors consulted with the family, they agreed to withdraw life support and donate her organs.

What actually happened was that Burns was in a deep coma from her overdose, and did not have irreversible brain damage.

The Health Department discovered that the staff did not perform a recommended treatment to stop the drugs from being absorbed into her stomach and intestines, did not test to see if she was free of all drugs and did not complete enough brain scans. They also did not wait long enough before recommending the patient was taken off life support.

In addition, her doctors did not pay attention to a nurse's notes which stated that Burns was not brain dead and in fact was getting better. A nurse performing a routine reflex test had discovered that Burns' toes had curled downward after the bottom of her foot was touched.

Despite all the signs that Burns was still alive and had brain function, a nurse injected her with a sedative and failed to note it on the chart.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hospital-errors-lead-to-dead-patient-opening-eyes-during-organ-harvesting/

While certainly the Dunlap and Burns cases should give one pause, should cause families to make sure all the proper diagnostic tests and procedures for diagnosing brain death have been followed and the positive outcome of such extremely rare cases is that doctors and hospitals have become more conservative and cautious to make sure their diagnosis is correct (I believe the standard in CA and in most states is that the brain death diagnosis has to be confirmed by at least one other doctor and that not just one test like a PET scan is performed), this doesn’t mean that all or even a high number of such diagnosis are in error.

In very rare cases were a patient has not been properly diagnosed as brain dead, the patient sometimes recovers seemingly miraculously, but a misdiagnosis of brain death or cardiac death followed by recovery, is not the same thing as a truly brain dead person coming back to life. That simply does not, cannot happen.

72 posted on 01/08/2014 3:15:35 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: goodwithagun

She is already decomposing.


73 posted on 01/08/2014 6:10:11 AM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (What would Sgt. Saunders do?)
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To: DCBryan1

Thank you! It is of the utmost importance that people know this!


74 posted on 01/08/2014 6:11:41 AM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (What would Sgt. Saunders do?)
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN

The family needs mental health evaluations. If this happened to one of my babies, I hope somebody would get me the help that I need.


75 posted on 01/08/2014 7:02:34 AM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people's than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun

I feel bad for the girl because she is just laying there and decomposing.


76 posted on 01/08/2014 9:00:24 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (What would Sgt. Saunders do?)
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To: goodwithagun

I feel bad for the girl because she is just laying there and decomposing.


77 posted on 01/08/2014 9:00:27 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (What would Sgt. Saunders do?)
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To: goodwithagun

I feel bad for the girl because she is just laying there and decomposing.


78 posted on 01/08/2014 9:00:28 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (What would Sgt. Saunders do?)
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To: Drew68

Bookmark


79 posted on 01/08/2014 9:09:25 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: heartwood
what parental negligence?

There are reports that at least three of the family members suctioned blood from Jahi's throat before alerting the ICU nurses that there was a problem. Over-aggressive suctioning could have exacerbated the bleeding problem.

The grandmother, who is an LPN and not an RN, admitted in an interview that she suctioned blood from Jahi's throat.

These reports of family involvement come from family members of other patients in the ICU who are not covered by HIPAA.

There are also reports - which I have never been able to trace except for comments to articles - that the mother brought a cheeseburger to the ICU for Jahi to eat post-surgery. I doubt it, but anything's possible.

80 posted on 01/10/2014 1:14:29 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: Drew68
The irony is that the longer they keep her on life support, the more difficult it will be for an autopsy to determine what, if anything, the hospital did wrong.

As I understand California law in this case, once the body was released to the family, the family can now refuse an autopsy.

81 posted on 01/10/2014 1:18:22 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: windcliff
It was also suggested that another parent in the ICU saw the mother give her a cheeseburger while making her talk and laugh. Also the grandmother took it upon herself to start suctioning the blood.

The cheeseburger story has been repeated in comments on many of the blogs and stories on Jahi McMath, but I've yet to find it documented in a blog or story.

The grandmother, who is a LPN and not an RN, admits to suctioning Jahi's throat. Family members of other patients in the ICU report at least two other members of Jahi's family suctioning blood before the family alerted the ICU nurse of any problem.

Over-aggressive suctioning could have exacerbated Jahi's post-operative bleeding.

82 posted on 01/10/2014 1:23:05 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: Scoutmaster
As I understand California law in this case, once the body was released to the family, the family can now refuse an autopsy.

The probably can but they'll have a difficult time proving negligence without an autopsy --if litigation against the hospital is something the family intends to pursue.

83 posted on 01/10/2014 1:41:33 PM PST by Drew68
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To: LucyT
Wonder what kind of "nurse" qualifications the grandmother has?

Her grandmother is a LPN, not an RN. According to reports, at least two other family members also suctioned Jahi's throat before the family alerted the ICU nurses about the bleeding.

84 posted on 01/10/2014 3:23:03 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
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To: MD Expat in PA; goodwithagun

“Pediatrician: Jahi McMath is Not “Brain Dead,” Can Recover With Proper Care”

more http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/31/leading-pediatrician-jahi-mcmath-is-not-brain-dead-can-recover-with-proper-care/

Doesn’t Jahi deserve a chance?


85 posted on 01/10/2014 6:43:39 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: Sun

There are several FR threads about this soul. Please visit those to educate yourself on this doc, ad well as the other medical issues with this case.


86 posted on 01/10/2014 6:48:29 PM PST by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people's than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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