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Falluja’s Fall Stuns Marines Who Fought There
NYT ^

Posted on 01/10/2014 12:14:05 PM PST by chessplayer

Adam Banotai was a 21-year-old sergeant and squad leader in the Marine Corps during the 2004 invasion of Falluja, a restive insurgent-held city in Iraq. His unit — which had seven of 17 men wounded by shrapnel or bullets in the first days of the invasion — seized control of the government center early in the campaign.

So when Sunni insurgents, some with allegiances to Al Qaeda, retook the city this month and raised their black insurgent flag over buildings where he and his men fought, he was transfixed, disbelieving and appalled.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 201401; bho44; falluja; fallujah; marines; oif; oifveterans; postwariraq; usmilitary
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Everyone who served in that war fought for nothing. Everyone who was killed or wounded,,,all for nothing.
1 posted on 01/10/2014 12:14:05 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

My son, 2 stepsons. All there. 11/8/2004 with the USMC.


2 posted on 01/10/2014 12:15:07 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: NEMDF

I pray to God that all 3 are home, safe and sound now.


3 posted on 01/10/2014 12:17:11 PM PST by Howie66 (Molon Labe, Traitors!)
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To: chessplayer

God bless you Veterans. I will not let the run over veterans and me again for stupid government mistakes as much as I can.


4 posted on 01/10/2014 12:17:44 PM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: chessplayer

Another war the Democrats made sure we would eventually lose.


5 posted on 01/10/2014 12:18:54 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: chessplayer

Just read Chris Kyle’s book.

He helped take both Fallujah and Ramadi - both Al Qaeda strongholds now.


6 posted on 01/10/2014 12:19:31 PM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: chessplayer
George Santayana:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"


7 posted on 01/10/2014 12:20:50 PM PST by Iron Munro (Orwell: There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.)
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To: chessplayer

They didn’t fight for nothing. Obama, however, made sure to undo what they fought for. Put the blame where it lies.


8 posted on 01/10/2014 12:21:02 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: chessplayer
So I saw the source of the NY Times and I knew, I just knew, that inside there would be some leftist spin on these reactions from brave marines and soldiers.

And within 30 seconds of peering into the article .....voila!

Others express anger at George W. Bush for getting them into a war that they now view as dubious in purpose and even more doubtful in its accomplishments.

So predictable.....

9 posted on 01/10/2014 12:24:02 PM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Hostage

You saved me the keystrokes. Spot on.


10 posted on 01/10/2014 12:25:08 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: Olog-hai

With the boys all over there for many of the “historical moments”, I will never forget their joy when one of the first “free” elections was held, and Iraqis were beaming, holding up their purple-dyed fingers to indicate that they had voted.

Many pictures and memories for them of bonding with the locals, helping the schools and other community services, giving those people their first taste of life in some type of democracy, and much hope for the future.


11 posted on 01/10/2014 12:25:44 PM PST by NEMDF
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To: Hostage

Of course. They had to make stuff up to try to counter the truth that they couldn’t avoid publishing.


12 posted on 01/10/2014 12:26:44 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: chessplayer

Once again, the evil marxist democrat party throws away victory and surrenders to the enemy. Only reason they fought to win in WWII was the enemy wasn’t communist.


13 posted on 01/10/2014 12:28:11 PM PST by NorthMountain
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To: NEMDF

Ditto my nephew. He was permanently injured.

What a waste.


14 posted on 01/10/2014 12:29:13 PM PST by Black Agnes
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To: chessplayer

You sound like John Kerry.


15 posted on 01/10/2014 12:30:54 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: Hostage

So I saw the source of the NY Times and I knew, I just knew, that inside there would be some leftist spin on these reactions from brave marines and soldiers.

And within 30 seconds of peering into the article .....voila!

Others express anger at George W. Bush for getting them into a war that they now view as dubious in purpose and even more doubtful in its accomplishments.

So predictable.....


I think they have a point. The only way we could have prevented this was to keep troops in Iraq forever.


16 posted on 01/10/2014 12:32:21 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

From the start, I knew that it was a waste of lives, time and money to try to bring democracy to that country. Those people needed to be ruled by an iron-handed brutal dictator, to keep them from killing each other and themselves.

Bush meant well, but had high hopes that savages could be brought into the modern world by toppling Saddam.


17 posted on 01/10/2014 12:33:19 PM PST by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: chessplayer
This is nothing more than the routine effort by the Times to subvert honest blame away from Obama for his failure and put it back onto Bush.

Standard operating procedure by the Times. I read the article. It was clear, though subtlety stated, that the entire effort was a Bush failure. The Left is so experienced at absolving themselves of any blame — ever — while at the same time upholding their boogey men so the useful idiots can continue to feel good about themselves.

The fact is that after the 10 day run to Baghdad the Left woke up and could not stomach that Bush was held in national esteem. From that moment on they went on a blind rage to ensure that we would never have final success, just as they did in Vietnam. And once in office, Obama could not run away fast enough without any thought as to the consequences of all that this nation had invested.

Like everything Obama touches, it turns to unmitigated waste.

18 posted on 01/10/2014 12:34:23 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: NEMDF

I remember those images and reports as well. It was truly a spiritual victory of the American way over the savages of the region as well as an example to the rest of the world of how people respond to liberation by a kind benefactor who sacrificed the blood of their sons and daughters to see freedom reign.

It is my understanding that the 40+ million Kurds of Iraq are still thankful and forever appreciating the American sacrifice.

I became very critical of GW Bush in his second term, I was one of the first, now joined by so many others. I am dead set against the GOPe and would support a Tea Party like political party to replace them if necessary.

But the democrats are absolutely traitorous. If I was in a leadership position of an independent party that wielded party in Washington DC, I would allow the GOPe to exist under rights granted them under the Constitution, but I would prosecute the democrats for treason for the rest of my life to the point where they would be outlawed in our United States just like the Neo-Nazis are in Germany.


19 posted on 01/10/2014 12:35:30 PM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: chessplayer

We were told at the time that the forces holding Falluja were “insurgents” who just wanted the U.S. out of Iraq. To many Iraqi’s they were patriots who were fighting the occupiers.

Now that we are gone what are they fighting for?

I’ll tell you. They were Al quada then and they are Al quada now. But that would have screwed up the democrat’s and the MSM’s tale about no Al quada in Iraq


20 posted on 01/10/2014 12:36:22 PM PST by saleman
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To: Hostage

Yes. I figured NYT had an angle and reason to print such an article.

Predictable, yes, but we don’t need to go to the NYT for it.

It’s right here within our ranks. Look at the first comment by chess player who made the post.


21 posted on 01/10/2014 12:36:30 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: chessplayer

They didn’t fight for “nothing”. They fought and succeeded in giving the people of Iraq a chance at freedom. They demonstrated, through their examples on how to work together to fight and defeat evil.

Now, if the current president or the past political offices (State Department or Iraqi government) failed to capitalize on the sacrifices these brave soldiers gave, then that failure in NO WAY falls on the soldiers who risked all and some gave all.


22 posted on 01/10/2014 12:42:02 PM PST by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: Hostage
Look at the comment section of the NYTimes. One comment with hundreds of thumbs up state that all our involvement in Iraq was a result of Bush v. Gore in 2000.

The Left became completely and literally unhinged following the 2000 election. They loosely conspired to destroy Bush at every turn, no matter the cost, even if it meant national chaos or destruction. The Left became deeply and personally committed to the destruction of Bush and anyone who thereafter opposed them. We continue to see the fruit of the Left’s bitterness borne out in the lawlessness and heavy-handedness of Obama.

A lot of blame goes directly on Al Gore who single-handedly put this nation on this self-destructive path by his actions following the 2000 election — which he lost on each and every count that kept going on. But Gore could not accept this and he intentionally poured bitter, bitter poison into the well of America.

23 posted on 01/10/2014 12:47:20 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: chessplayer
Everyone who served in that war fought for nothing. Everyone who was killed or wounded,,,all for nothing.

I pray for them and that they will have sacrificed so that Obama the traitor will be arrested and tried for his high crimes then rot in a cell one day.

I pray for worse for Valerie Jarrett.

24 posted on 01/10/2014 12:51:08 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell)
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To: chessplayer
I knew Sgt Banotai and served with him when he was in 1st Platoon, Alpha Company, 1/8 - we were in Fallujah together. He was a good Marine and a good man.

Matt Brown (aka "Boot Brown" as we had another, more senior, "Brown" in the Section) was one of my machinegunners. After he was wounded, he fired off another burst of his machinegun trying to continue supressing the enemy - even after he was wounded. The story we were told: After Brown made it to the hospital (or at least the aid station) he flat-lined and was "dead." They had found either his St. Christopher, or St. Michael's medallion and had a Chaplain read him his last rites. After the rites, Brown - came back.

As a side note from the story:

“I wanted to get with that girl, and then the next day I was seeing pieces of her all over the side of the road,” said Mr. Cathcart, now 28, who says he was discharged with post-traumatic stress disorder and is now unemployed in Colorado.

My #1 argument against women serving in combat arms in a nutshell, from this Marine's account.

It isn't about whether "they" can do the same physically, or whether sexual assaults increase or decline, or about "fairness." It is most importantly about the psychological impact it has on the men surrounding her.

In summary, I was in both Al Fallujah and Ar Ramadi. It sickens me to see what our sacrifices are repaid with. It sickens me to see defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

25 posted on 01/10/2014 12:51:25 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: chessplayer

Its a muslim country and that should be all the explanation anyone not completely stupid should need. I we gave them their chance and THEY blew it.

I’m certainly not going to waste a lot of time being outraged over animals behaving like the animals we know they are.


26 posted on 01/10/2014 12:52:08 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: chessplayer

Beebers stuned. Should we really be surprised with this particular Impostor-In-Chief in office?


27 posted on 01/10/2014 12:53:46 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: chessplayer
Now their real camaraderie with Vietnam veterans begins.
28 posted on 01/10/2014 12:55:19 PM PST by onedoug
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To: chessplayer
Falluja’s Fall Stuns Marines Who Fought There
Former Marine, VN vet ... been there, done that.
29 posted on 01/10/2014 12:55:50 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Obadiah

Bush also ended up destroying himself and nearly the GOP along with it.

We now have a chance to regain what Bush lost and squandered by having Tea Party conservatives take the US Senate and increase seats in the House. We can then complete the taking back when we elect Ted Cruz as President in 2016.

There is not one, not one thing, that Ted Cruz has said or done that I disagree with. Further, there is not even one area or issue that he equivocates on that would lead me to think he will flip flop in the future.

Bottomline is we have a real chance.

As for NY Times readers, their numbers are in decline but the ones that remain are the most shrill and marxist of all. These people are literally brain damaged but nevertheless should be prosecuted for treason on any pretext.


30 posted on 01/10/2014 12:56:34 PM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Repeat Offender

Very good point.


31 posted on 01/10/2014 1:03:43 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Olog-hai

You can’t blame Obama on this one.

Bush did a terrible job as Commander in Chief.

- Why send American troops to Iraq? (a fruitless mission)
- Why send ‘insufficient’ troops to Iraq? (no control)
- Why send troops with terrible ROEs (can’t shoot)
- Why send troops to be the foreign “cops” in town?


33 posted on 01/10/2014 1:34:07 PM PST by LibFreeUSA
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To: oh8eleven
So, now we have a brand new generation to join us in the betrayal that was done to us by the politicians. I guess times really don't change for the traitorous democrats and socialist/communist/progressives.

Howdy to a muzzle maggot from a Khe Sahn 0844.
SEMPER FI FRiend.

34 posted on 01/10/2014 1:37:23 PM PST by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: chessplayer

And they continue to die for nothing in Afghanistan.


35 posted on 01/10/2014 1:48:48 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The War on Drugs has been used as an excuse to steal your rights. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: 5th MEB
Thanks bro ... was just a little NE of you at C-2 (one click south of Con Thien) w/ 1st 8".
Glad you made it back. S/F ...

36 posted on 01/10/2014 1:51:31 PM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Repeat Offender

“It is...about the psychological impact it has on the men surrounding her.”

American men, generally speaking, are raised to believe they’re expected to protect and defend their women. This is a completely foreign idea in most of the non-western world. You can’t be bringing death and destruction on the enemy when you feel a duty to protect the women fighting along side you, regardless of whether they need it or not. Admittedly, many don’t.

War is a dirty, ugly business. Keep the women home; keep them civilized. Leave the nasty stuff to us men.


37 posted on 01/10/2014 2:06:38 PM PST by beelzepug (if any alphabets are watchin', I'll be coming home right after the meetin')
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To: Olog-hai

They sure did fight for nothing. And so did I. 395 days and 150 hours of combat flight time. Worst year plus of my life. Bush takes most of the blame for sending us there. Where you there? And I mean really there not a protected false combat patch fobbit...


38 posted on 01/10/2014 2:07:28 PM PST by strider44
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To: chessplayer

Obama’s fault.


39 posted on 01/10/2014 2:26:18 PM PST by Williams (No Obama)
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To: chessplayer

They were all betrayed by the last two damn stupid administrations. What is it about Vietnam could they not understand?


40 posted on 01/10/2014 2:28:59 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (The media must be defeated any way it can be done.)
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To: chessplayer
If any U.S. president sends ground troops back into Iraq, I would hope that they would be impeached...and convicted.

5.56mm

41 posted on 01/10/2014 2:31:43 PM PST by M Kehoe
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To: chessplayer
"Everyone who served in that war fought for nothing . Everyone who was killed or wounded,,,,all for nothing.

Of all the horrible things that have happened, since the long national nightmare began, under the reign of "O" the Red, this the worst.

It's heartbreaking. All the blood was spilled for nothing as you said.

(Recall the vicious subhuman practitioners of the "religion of pieces" burned the bodies of the four men and hung them on the bridge there.)

It's just so sad.

Prayers for all of our military and their families.

This is exactly why it matters who you vote for-that you know what they believe in, what they stand for, and find out if they even like your country, and what it stands for, much less be willing to defend it and its interests.

The left has wanted another Viet Nam. Looks like they got what they wanted.

Tragic.

42 posted on 01/10/2014 2:44:40 PM PST by Pajamajan (Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Don't wait. Do it today.)
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To: LibFreeUSA

Who was it that pulled the USA completely out of Iraq? It was not Bush, his foibles and outright blunders notwithstanding. Bush, for the weakness that he showed, at least did not present the simpering, submissive face that Obama wears towards that part of the world.


43 posted on 01/10/2014 2:52:39 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: strider44

Funny how those that remind us of the blame that Bush bears (which I don’t deny) want to exonerate Obama, who pulled everyone out and encouraged the terrorists openly.


44 posted on 01/10/2014 2:54:08 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Obadiah; Hostage
Please allow me to share something with you:

I had a year of college left in Sept. of 2001, and I made my mind up that Tuesday, the 11th, that I would jump in wherever we were fighting when I graduated. Besides, it would take months/a year to plan the thing anyway...

I changed my mind three days later, when, at the memorial service at the National Cathedral, I heard a mooselimb imam speaking. I was offended, because I know what islam is, what it means and what it does. And I felt angry, because this guy apologized for absolutely NOTHING. My "spider sense" was telling me something is wrong.

I knew Bush had a propensity for weakness towards his enemies, starting with the EP3 incident and extending to the democrat party, so I knew this was politically correct horsecrap from him or Karen Hughes, Karl Rove, etc.

But that Saturday, Rita Cosby, on Fox News, showed a video of Muzzamil Siddiqi (the imam invited to speak at the 9/11 service) chanting "DEATH TO AMERICA!". (I have been unable to find this video on the internet since 2003)

I would have expected that from Klinton, and from Gore, but not from a Christian republican from Texas. I was stunned. I knew the fix was in. Throw in his "Islam is peace" comment the following week, and I knew I was witnessing the beginnings of the (internal and external) systematic, planned unraveling of the American empire. Throw in the "Infinite Crusade" and "Infinite Justice" horseshit, and I knew I would never sign up.

Fast forward to 2003. Even the "shock and awe" seemed muted. The ROE (Rules of Engagement) were getting our troops killed for no reason. Building schools for people that will never learn to read. Giving out candy so they can get shot at or blown up. THEY don't give a crap about the kids there, why should we?

That war should have taken 3 months. Maximum. ANNIHILATE every major city with the largest conventional bombs we have, kill indiscriminately, KEEP THE MEDIA AWAY from the battle...Then leave. If they want help, we come back, and we get all the oil we can suck up out of the dirt. and they play by our rules, or more die.

That is what they understand. Islam MEANS submission. They will submit to us. Instead they sh-t on us. Bush could have been 60% as crazy as I sound, and the world would have been a lot safer, and Fallujah would not be in enemy hands.

45 posted on 01/10/2014 3:50:28 PM PST by Captainpaintball
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To: LucianOfSamasota

Another Obama victory. He does not have our best interest in anything.


46 posted on 01/10/2014 6:15:03 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty or Big Government - you can't have both.)
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To: chessplayer; Captainpaintball; saleman

See Post #20 and I too remember well the NY Times staff squawking about there was no AQ in Iraq.

I also remember well the media supporting going after AQ wherever they were but it became convenient for them to turn on Bush and the American people by claiming AQ was no longer in Iraq or operative much of anywhere. They said this and printed it and had no knowledge if they were inaccurate or not. It was all a campaign to characterize the war efforts as without merit and unjustified.

Democrats always do this, they run away and let a victory turn to defeat and then blame the republicans for the mess.

I will give you a specific example, a real on the ground example told by a person in local contact with AQ.

His name is Azhar and is 100% westernized Pakistani living in Karachi but very successful in business. He lived in the USA for a long spell and visits often as his brother and his brother’s family live in the USA and are American citizens. All are very fond of the USA and its rule of law. They would like for nothing more than Pakistan be more like the USA.

Azhar told me that the locals where he lived couldn’t just go round up AQ and their families because AQ had been living among them for 30 years and had intermarried.

But what they could do is make AQ and its jihad cult very unpopular as long as the USA was seen as strong and invincible.

Azhar said the Paki population was steering the AQ youth away from jihad. It was no longer popular and actually was seen as an embarrassment on par with Somali pirates up against Navy destroyers and Seal Teams. What the AQ kids wanted was to grow up educated and prepared to join the first world.

And the local attitudes towards AQ jihad in Pakistan are mirrored in Iraq.

How then does Obama’s dereliction regarding Iraq help to foster anti-AQ sentiments? Answer: It doesn’t.

Another example:
An Iranian friend of mine in Amsterdam and another friend in Israel on the recent ‘let up’ on the regime in Iran. My Iranian friend hates the mullahs there and says and I have confirmed with others that many people in Iran hate the mullahs too. When the Shah was in power there was a middle class and people could buy a home and a car, their kids could attend college and life was quite good. But the Shah’s secret police went too far and the people wanted some honesty so they thought Khomeini might be what they need. They were wrong. The Mullahs took over just as Mandela in S. Africa and split the power and riches among their cronies. The Iranian middle class died and my Iranian friend sees the same happening to the USA.

The Iranian people hate the Mullahs and want to see them gone. Given the opportunity they will brave any hardship to rid the country of these “bastards” as they call them. But they will not tolerate an outside attack led by foreigners. That will make them angry.

Iranians are different from Iraqis because Iraqis are a patchwork of many different peoples who will not be necessarily angered if an outside force steps in. The 40 million Kurds to the north in Iraq love Americans and are grateful to God for the sacrifice that Americans made in Iraq. The Iraqi Sunnis do not necessarily like the American presence but they accepted it as long as it was not seen in their daily lives. Petraeus handled the population just right.

But what does Obama do in Iran? He allows the prospects of lifting sanctions to be floated. What does that mean specifically? It means billions upon tens of billions of frozen assets for example 20,000 kg of Iranian gold frozen in place in UAE can be released. Released to who? To the bastard mullahs that the people hate.

Will this help the people in Iran? Of course not. All we needed to do was to keep the siege going on Iraq and in fact as my Iranian friend and Israeli friend both said separately that tripling the sanctions would lead to starvation in Iran but this was good medicine, why? Because the Iranian people would not blame America or NATO countries for their starvation, they would blame the mullahs and they would rise up and overthrow the mullahs.

So Obama lets AQ revive itself in Iraq and lets the mullahs salivate at tens of billions of dollars in assets for themselves and their cronies while the people in both countries suffer.

In Iraq all that needed to be done was a massive drone strike against AQ leaders. In Iran all that was necessary was a tripling of the sanctions. The people in both place would have taken care of the rest.

But the pukes at the NY Times see the failure of Obama in Iraq and scramble for damage control by trying to divert attention to GW Bush. It’s Obama’s world now and AQ is taking control in Iraq and the mullahs are smiling in Iran. This is the legacy of Obama.

Let’s be clear, if the Iranian government gets the bomb, it is a 100% certainty that they will give the bomb to one of their sponsored terrorist groups who will not hesitate to use it on us or our European allies. It will happen.

And if the pukes at the NY Times still exist, they will write how the nuclear explosion was a payback to the USA for all its interference in Iran and support of the Shah.

So chessplayer, your NY Times friends have NO point. They have lunacy wrapped in a defense of their leftist leader Obama.

And you did know that far more than 50% of the NY Times editorial staff are homosexual? Well you do now. Look it up.


47 posted on 01/10/2014 6:17:06 PM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Repeat Offender

Thank you for risking everything for a cause greater then your own desires. Please do not buy into the belief that your sacrifices and the sacrifices of your brother and sisters in arms was for “nothing”. Regardless of how Bush or Obama or the Iraqi government wasted the efforts and sacrifices of warriors like you, you can say that you at least gave your best effort to give people a chance at freedom from evil and oppression and that is not “nothing”. That is perhaps the greatest gift/sacrifice a people can offer to others.


48 posted on 01/10/2014 6:24:12 PM PST by ScubieNuc (When there is no justice in the laws, justice is left to the outlaws.)
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To: ScubieNuc; Repeat Offender

Repeat Offender,

You and your brothers also showed America’s enemies that we can go into any of their hell holes, kick their pathetic butts and make them pay.

All militant Muslims share responsibility for the unprovoked murders of 911. Obama caused us to give up ground, but if needed, we have warriors who can go back and again make our enemies pay.

I am almost to the point that tactical nukes might become a good option with these animals. If Russia and china finally have enough, maybe the Islamic problem will get solved in a joint effort.

I really appreciate your service and sacrifice. thank you


49 posted on 01/10/2014 6:38:31 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty or Big Government - you can't have both.)
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To: Captainpaintball

My son is finishing high school and I told him no way he joins the Army so I did right after high school, not under Obama, no way.

Many, many died in Iraq and Afghanistan needlessly because of the ROMAN and for nothing more than political reasons.


50 posted on 01/10/2014 7:45:15 PM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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