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Officers acquitted in California homeless death
AP ^ | 14 JAN 14 | GILLIAN FLACCUS

Posted on 01/14/2014 9:14:16 AM PST by andyk

Two California police officers who were videotaped in a violent struggle with a homeless man during an arrest were acquitted Monday of killing him. It was a rare case in which police officers were charged in a death involving actions on duty. One of the officers acquitted had been charged with murder. Jurors took less than two days to reach their verdicts. ormer Cpl. Jay Cicinelli was acquitted of involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force. Spectators let out a gasp as the verdict was read.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: california; donutwatch; fullerton; fullertonpd; kellythomas
Who didn't see this coming? Always follow your masters' orders.
1 posted on 01/14/2014 9:14:16 AM PST by andyk
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To: andyk

At least you won’t see rioting or the city burned down as a result of the verdict.


2 posted on 01/14/2014 9:16:52 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

That’s true!


3 posted on 01/14/2014 9:20:10 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: andyk
just terrible...The jury is nuts...

And what would have happened if he was black??

4 posted on 01/14/2014 9:22:13 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: andyk

Acquitted of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force.

They should have charged them with littering for leaving the kids blood and guts on the sidewalk —

I hope the jury sleeps well tonight.


5 posted on 01/14/2014 9:22:35 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: andyk

God have mercy.

This was one of the most heart-wrenching cases I every read about - the pictures of the poor man’s face afterward were horrific.

Some day those police officers will meet their Maker and answer for what they have done - to die unrepentant and unconfessed would be a dreadful thing.

In the meanwhile, they are out on the streets, and the lesson taught to fellow officers is not a good one.


6 posted on 01/14/2014 9:25:47 AM PST by heartwood
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To: andyk

You have to understand that America’s police officers are not like they were 50 years ago.

With as many officers as they had that night they could have easily taken down this unarmed nutbar without the need to kill him.


7 posted on 01/14/2014 9:27:43 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: andyk

Quite the lively comment forum going on there under the article...

Reminds me of here...


8 posted on 01/14/2014 9:29:20 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: andyk

If I were one of these officers, I’d be on the lookout for vigilante justice appearing during some routine traffic stop.


9 posted on 01/14/2014 9:32:35 AM PST by ZX12R (Never forget the heroes of Benghazi, who were abandoned to their deaths by Obama)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

That is the problem. The older watch is being replaced with soulless goons to fill quotas and bi-lingual needs.


10 posted on 01/14/2014 9:35:14 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: andyk

Was there even a reason the cops initiated the stop? From the video I’ve seen the guy was just sitting there like dozens of other homeless people.


11 posted on 01/14/2014 9:35:37 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
From the article:

The video began with Ramos stopping Thomas on July 5, 2011, after the officer answered a call about a disheveled man jiggling the handles of car doors in a busy transit center parking lot.

Ramos grew frustrated with Thomas, who wasn't following orders to sit on a curb with his hands on his knees.

Just before the altercation began, Ramos snapped on plastic gloves, made two fists and then held them in front of Thomas' face as he said, "Now see these fists? They're going to (expletive) you up."

12 posted on 01/14/2014 9:41:16 AM PST by csvset
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To: andyk

This sets a legal precedent for california:

It’s perfectly legal for cops to beat you to death, or just outright shoot you, for any reason, or no reason at all, as long as they can claim that they felt “threatened”. Effing cowards hiding behind badges and union lawyers.

This is why anyone sane should avoid california like the plague.


13 posted on 01/14/2014 9:43:31 AM PST by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: driftdiver
Was there even a reason the cops initiated the stop?

They received a call that a man was moving through a parking lot jiggling all the door handles on the cars. They had to check it out.

The victim gave the cops attitude initially and then resisted throughout instead of going limp and allowing the cuffs to be placed on him.

So the JBTs responded in the only way their little piggy brains were trained to do.

14 posted on 01/14/2014 9:43:39 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Because more violence is always the answer.

Well at least they all went home safe.


15 posted on 01/14/2014 9:44:29 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: factoryrat

And, yes, at least they made it home safely.


16 posted on 01/14/2014 9:45:14 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: heartwood

The unasked question was what the officers intended to do with Kelly had he survived the beating. Book him? How would hey have explained his appearance?
Hospitalize him, then book him? Again, how to explain.

I’ve seen abusive officers on several levels, and it’s never good. They start small and, if they get away with it at that level, work their way up the violence ladder.


17 posted on 01/14/2014 9:47:29 AM PST by DPMD
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To: driftdiver

See my tag line.


18 posted on 01/14/2014 9:49:59 AM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: DPMD

Stupid thugs have no imagination, no sense of consequences and the future. They get caught easily.

These stupid thugs were caught easily, but not punished because they wore uniforms. So maybe their little brains foretold the future after all.


19 posted on 01/14/2014 10:03:37 AM PST by heartwood
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To: factoryrat

I was born in CA and I will never ever go back.

This is a travesty. It’s now open season on civvies.


20 posted on 01/14/2014 10:04:01 AM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: andyk

“Murder by Cop” is going to be the next big fad.


21 posted on 01/14/2014 10:06:29 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: ZX12R
Yup2
22 posted on 01/14/2014 10:07:10 AM PST by tomkat
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To: Uncle Chip

Well, that is the type of individuals that the good people of Orange County want to be in authority over them. Sooner or later they will run out of homeless people to beat to death and then they will start on the good people such as made up the jury. Never forget, you always get what you deserve. What they wish to deny is that the cops hold them[ the citizens] in the same contempt they hold the homeless man.


23 posted on 01/14/2014 10:13:34 AM PST by sport
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To: Cyber Liberty

““Murder by Cop” is going to be the next big fad.”

Nest fad? Please, it’s been going on all over the country for a generation or more.
It’s the cops “Knockout Game.” Only they “finish off” their victims with a few bullets just to make sure you don’t get to tell your side of the story.


24 posted on 01/14/2014 10:57:39 AM PST by vette6387
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Isn’t that a cultural dichotomy... /s

(oops...was that racist?) /s


25 posted on 01/14/2014 11:05:10 AM PST by logi_cal869
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To: andyk

I honestly don’t think any of us outside of the case and the jury have enough facts to condemn the jury, anymore than we should have condemned the jury in the first Rodney King trial, or the jury in the Trayvon Martin case. The jury has to follow its instructions. Yes we all saw what we saw on the videotapes (like with Rodney King) and also like with Rodney King, we didn’t see the events leading up to the arrest, nor the fact that he was resisting arrest and force was required to subdue him. As someone has mental illness in my own family, I know first hand that force is often required to subdue the person as they often do not cooperate with law enforcement. With Rodney King he was strung out on PCP.

The case of OJ Simpson btw, was clearly a case of jury nullification as the evidence against him was overwhelming and indisputable.


26 posted on 01/14/2014 11:21:44 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Resolute Conservative
That is the problem. The older watch is being replaced with soulless goons to fill quotas and bi-lingual needs.

Bull. The vast majority of incidents reported on this forum involve white male cops.

27 posted on 01/14/2014 11:34:25 AM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: Ken H

“reported” being the the operative word.


28 posted on 01/14/2014 11:36:37 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

So there’s selective bias at FR?


29 posted on 01/14/2014 11:38:39 AM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: andyk

Ever since the so-called War On Drugs (WOD) and, now, the War On Terror (WOT) — actually more like the War On The Bill of Rights) — began, our civilian cops have been undergoing MILITARY training. The “authorities” gentle it down with the prefix “Para” but those “dynamic entry” teams would be more at home in Baghdad than Boston. (Well, unless they hit John Kerry’s front door at 3 am, Boston might not be a good example.) Watch “Dallas SWAT” for a dose of how it works.

I have long thought that that sort of activity within the ranks of otherwise “civilian” law enforcement was a push by those with an agenda to bypass posse comitatus for purposes BEYOND the WOD/WOT and other currently criminal behavior.

That the mass of that shrinking minority – the American citizen (thank you Mr. Open Borders Bush and Total Amnesty Obama) – has NOT objected to this erosion of personal liberty does NOT bode well for the future of freedom here.

I wonder what sort of body count of innocent grandmothers and others it will take before folks begin to grasp that they might be more at risk from the cops than the criminals and bring the situation back under control?

My Uncle Bob (R.I.P.) would be horrified.

My Uncle Bob was a 30-year veteran of a police force in suburban Cleveland. He was best man at my wedding in 1962. He served in an era when MOST cops embodied the now frequently hollow motto emblazoned on police units all over this country: “TO PROTECT AND SERVE.”
 
The last 10 years of his career were spent as the chief Juvenile Detective in his department. When he died, a number of the young men whose lives he had touched years before came forward to tell how his timely and sometimes tough-love intervention turned them around.
 
I know that many officers STILL try to live that creed today. I also know that there are officers out there who, despite the rulings by the Supremes that they have no obligation to specific, individual citizens (see Warren v. DC for some fascinating and frightening reading on that), would stand between one of us and a bullet – and have.
 
Having said that, I must also lament that SOME cops are “cowboys.” Too many are simply power driven megalomaniacs who would have dropped on the OTHER side of the law had their lives drifted a degree or two off the course they did take. It is these clowns who give credence to the wry bit of “humor” that there is no situation than cannot be made worse by the presence of the cops.
 
I believe this to be especially true of far too many federal law enforcement types who have allowed their egos and hubris to become as bloated as the bureaucratic federal behemoth they serve. (See footnote below).  Their mandate is no longer to “…protect and serve” the citizens who pay their salaries: It is to crush any meaningful resistance to a growing body of procedures, regulations and policies – too frequently enforced under severely tortured interpretations of the underlying legislative enactments (if any) – and often put in place by executive fiat. The massively abused SEIZURE statutes – laws the author of which now seeks to RESCIND! — spring to mind.
 
 
And one cannot but help to wonder how the clear to anyone with half a brain criminality of the Clintons and now Obama – and their subsequent avoidance of any penalty – has played into the problem? There now seems to be a bright line between the easy, highly flexible, slap-on-the-wrist law for the rich and powerful and the rigidly enforced law against even the tiniest victimless “crimes” committed by those of us further down the food chain. Does anyone in his right mind believe THAT will NOT engender added disrespect for ALL law?
 
Could those things be a large part of the problem in some of the highly disturbing – and DEADLY (on BOTH sides) – confrontations we have witnessed over the past decade or so? Gordon Kahl, Ruby Ridge, OK City, Waco, Beck… This list WILL lengthen and we’d all better pray that WE will be spared.
 
Roman historian Tacitus warned that one could tell the level of corruption in a society by the NUMBER of its laws. Anyone doubt the level of corruption here?
Am I the only one who thinks we’re long overdue a serious review of the NUMBERS of laws under which we are now forced to exist – and which are increasingly used not to assure our safety or well-being, but to COMMAND AND CONTROL us and KEEP US IN LINE.
 
Only the most tyrannical and power-crazed members of law enforcement could possibly object to that.
 
The modern counterparts of my uncle would not object.
 
It is THEY, after all, who are most likely to catch that bullet – probably fired by someone who has symbolically screamed to himself “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE” — referred to earlier when they sally forth to serve that flimsy warrant or make that bogus arrest.
 
Dick Bachert (1999) Updated 12/2010
 
 FOOTNOTE:
At a cocktail party back in the late 80’s, I struck up a chat with a fellow — his name was Joe M. — whom I’d met on one or two previous events.  After my first encounter, Joe’s neighbor and my boss at the time told me that Joe was an alcoholic who had just retired from 25 years with the IRS.  Needless to say, I was guarded in expressing my political views to Joe as the IRS had helped my dad into an early grave in 1977 — at age 59 over an estate matter.   Joe was pretty deep into his cups at the function in question and began telling IRS “war stories.”  Most had to do with clear cases of criminal conduct by not very nice people.   Joe — who was a few years short of 60 — sounded to me like someone who enjoyed helping getting really bad people off the street and I asked why he’d retired early.  He told me that what he called “the service” had changed for the worse.  Then I asked him about the new people coming in.  He shook his head, actually teared up and said that many of them were “really bad.” I pressed.  “Really bad” meant incompetent?  “No — DANGEROUS,” he responded “they like to hurt people.” 
 
It was then that I think I understood why Joe drank.


30 posted on 01/14/2014 11:47:22 AM PST by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

The evidence against these thugs in blue was indisputable, and if a jury must follow a judges instructions, then they are nothing but an extension of the judge - mere puppets.


31 posted on 01/14/2014 11:47:23 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: andyk
From the article,

Jurors are willing to forgive lapses in judgment rather than put an officer "in the cage with the same people that officer has spent his life arresting," he said.

What is it they used to say? "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

32 posted on 01/14/2014 11:54:33 AM PST by Dartman (CDN PM Stephen Harper may not be perfect, but we don't have to be ashamed or embarassed of him.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
The jury has to follow its instructions.

Actually, jurists should follow their conscience.

33 posted on 01/14/2014 11:57:40 AM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: andyk

Licensed to kill every man, woman and dog.


34 posted on 01/14/2014 12:04:53 PM PST by Anton.Rutter
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To: andyk

If you serve on jury, you are required to follow the judge’s instructions and reach a verdict in accordance with the law. There are many things we don’t know about the case:

1) What happened before the arrest?
2) Was arrest being resisted?
3) What was the medical condition?

And of course, there is always intent-—which is always a factor in deciding these cases.


35 posted on 01/14/2014 12:07:05 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: andyk

36 posted on 01/14/2014 12:17:57 PM PST by Anton.Rutter
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To: Ken H

More like just not seeing all that is out there.


37 posted on 01/14/2014 12:39:53 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: sport

This is from the Justice for Patricia Cook FB page...

“the Fullerton City Council did not initially do the right thing. Like the Culpeper Town Council, they provided cover for criminal behavior, simply because the criminals were wearing a uniform at the time. Unlike the citizens of Culpeper though, the citizens of Fullerton took to the streets and made their outrage known, in a civil and peaceful manner. Their demonstrations at the Fullerton City Hall were soon joined by like minded politicians who called for a recall of the City Council members who were protecting the bad cops. All 3 members who were up for recall lost their positions. It was at that point that the city council brought in an outside investigator to do a thorough review of the entire department. The Fullerton Chief of Police eventually resigned.”

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10200391146860397&id=405709186116293

So while the jury may not have done justice, it seems the voters did take care of business at the ballot box.


38 posted on 01/14/2014 2:22:17 PM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

That is encouraging.


39 posted on 01/14/2014 2:35:22 PM PST by sport
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To: Resolute Conservative
That's like the denial of black violence, the knock-out game for example. Violent crime is primarily a black phenomenon, violent crime by police is primarily from white officers.

Be sure to give thanks to drug war supporters as well.

40 posted on 01/14/2014 5:03:08 PM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: andyk

I wish I could say I was surprised.

The just-us system prevails again.


41 posted on 01/14/2014 6:58:59 PM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: factoryrat

Indeed.

And that legal precedent will be set in other states around the nation if this is not stopped NOW.


42 posted on 01/14/2014 7:00:33 PM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: ZX12R

If I were one of these officers, I’d be on the lookout for vigilante justice appearing during some routine traffic stop.


Not the best venue, think more like where they sleep......


43 posted on 01/14/2014 8:12:38 PM PST by S.O.S121.500 (Had Enough Yet ?............................ Enforce the Bill of Rights............ It's the LAW !!!)
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To: Uncle Chip
I hope the jury sleeps well tonight.

I wonder if they might do so because by acquitting these psychopaths, they've avoided being harmed by fellow psychopathic police who threatened them "acquit or else watch your back every minute of the day and don't expect your loved ones to be safe, either."

It was so clearly a case of psychopathic behavior on the part of the cops. They stood around and joked about how the poor bastard had "shit himself" after they were done -- that's the reports from people who have the stomach to watch the video; I do not. Human males (these were not men by any definition) who are so lacking in humanity and compassion, are psychopaths and deserve to be locked up PRONTO.

I drove past the place where this (admittedly messed up, crazy occasionally violent, but well known and mostly harmless) 135-lb homeless guy was murdered, right near the train station in Fullerton. There were only about a dozen protesters, but I honked and gave them a thumbs-up. They appreciated it.

Apparently, a career in many American police departments is perfect for psychopaths in America. God help us if Obama starts identifying and recruiting them for his Brownshirt brigades.

44 posted on 01/15/2014 11:37:48 AM PST by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: Dick Bachert
Every single word of your post -- EXCELLENT. Posts like that are why I FReep.

Thank you for writing and posting it, and I pray that it is read well beyond FR, serving to inform, inspire, and unite Americans as they seek the path for restoring American freedom and righteousness.

Just an excellent, excellent post. Worth every single word.

45 posted on 01/15/2014 11:49:23 AM PST by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: Dick Bachert

Thank you. I now have some understanding of what is happening to law enforcement in our country.


46 posted on 01/15/2014 11:56:01 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Sacajaweau
just terrible...The jury is nuts... And what would have happened if he was black??

Basically, liberals are all for police brutality, just as they're all for Federal goons spying on American citizens. The only exception they make is when the victims of law enforcement abuse and brutality happen to be non-white. Then the same liberals become loud spokesmen for "civil liberties."

47 posted on 01/16/2014 8:50:50 AM PST by ek_hornbeck
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