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Cops must face justice in killing of homeless man (found not guilty)
CNN ^

Posted on 01/14/2014 10:26:39 PM PST by chessplayer

(CNN) -- What is it with juries in high-profile cases in Southern California? Over the years, they've become a national joke. But no one is laughing.

This week, that jury in Santa Ana, California -- a city about 30 miles southeast of Los Angeles -- produced a wave of gasps in the courtroom when it announced that it had found Manuel Ramos, who had been charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, and Jay Cicinelli, who was charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force, not guilty on all counts.

What? The beating was caught on a surveillance tape. When you watch those 33 minutes of footage, assuming you can stomach the experience, it's hard to believe that anyone could declare the perpetrators "not guilty." The surveillance camera footage shows Thomas being beaten and stunned with a Taser by police until he was unrecognizable and unconscious.

According to prosecutors, the young man suffered brain injuries, facial fractures, broken ribs and extensive bruises and abrasions. He wound up lying in a pool of blood. He died five days later.

This was not, as Ramos' attorney claimed, a case of police offices simply "doing their job" with "no malice in their heart."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
For half an hour they pounded on him. I saw a picture of him in the hospital. His "face" doesn't even look like a face. He was tackled, hit with a baton, pinned to the ground, punched repeatedly in the ribs, kneed in the head, Tasered four times and then struck in the face with the Taser device eight times. They crushed his thorax. And the cops attorney says whats the big deal,,,they were only doing their jobs and doing what they were trained to do. In other words, their attorney said cops are trained to torture and murder people.
1 posted on 01/14/2014 10:26:39 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

All my jury experience tells me that 99% of people can’t handle the idea of judging.


2 posted on 01/14/2014 10:31:42 PM PST by mylife (Ted Cruz understands the law, and he does not fear the unlawful.)
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To: chessplayer

What does a cop have to do to a suspect in order to be convicted of murder? Cook him and serve him for dinner a la Hannibal Lecter? /sarcasm


3 posted on 01/14/2014 10:36:08 PM PST by Frank_2001
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To: chessplayer

Proponents of the police state don’t like it when it arrives in their narrow sliver of the world nor when it doesn’t advance their cause.


4 posted on 01/14/2014 10:37:54 PM PST by Kaosinla (The More the Plans Fail. The More the Planners Plan.)
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To: chessplayer

“,they were only doing their jobs and doing what they were trained to do.”
______________________________________________
Yes, it appears that cops in America are now being trained to be jack-booted thugs. I gather that this has been going on for
the last ten years or so. I think much of it is emulation of the thuggery that is now seen in the movies with most all cops being shown in full swat gear, yelling “get on the ground, get on the ground..NOW!”. The good old boys on the beat are a thing of the past.


5 posted on 01/14/2014 10:38:38 PM PST by AlexW
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To: mylife

Thomas’ father,,,a retired police officer - “This is carte blanche to police officers to do whatever they want.”

He said everyone should be afraid of cops, now.


6 posted on 01/14/2014 10:38:43 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer
Oh no! There might be protests and riots!!

Oh, wait; vic was white. Man, had me worried there for a minute.
Nothing to see here. Move along.

7 posted on 01/14/2014 10:41:15 PM PST by stormhill
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To: stormhill

There should be outrage and protests at the very least. I don’t think it’s a compliment to white people to suggest that they’re more tolerant of being beaten to death by government agents than those silly minorities.


8 posted on 01/14/2014 10:53:09 PM PST by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war alwaysmeans failure.")
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To: chessplayer
[Early on in the confrontation, Ramos appears to tell the young man who is sitting on the ground: “You see my fists? They're getting ready to f-— you up!” Another officer is heard telling a comrade: “We ran out of options so I got to the end of my Taser and I ... smashed his face to hell.”]

It may be the jurors were genuinely afraid a guilty verdict would result in this pack of armed sadists descending on them in the dark of night.

9 posted on 01/14/2014 11:00:32 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: chessplayer

that reminds me, I need to buy more guns and ammo.


10 posted on 01/14/2014 11:03:22 PM PST by RC one
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To: chessplayer

If Thomas was unable to breathe, then how was he able to talk so clearly? He also seemed to be coherent and not having a psychotic episode.


11 posted on 01/14/2014 11:08:04 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62; All

Was he speaking clearly before or after they crushed his thorax (or did they mean larynx?).


12 posted on 01/14/2014 11:16:45 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: Moonman62
From the LAT =>

The coroner who conducted Kelly Thomas’ autopsy said the homeless man died from lack of oxygen caused by chest compression during his struggle with police.

Thomas became brain dead "due to mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial injuries sustained during physical altercation with a law enforcement officer," Singhania said. “The chest got compressed, that caused [Thomas] not to breathe.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/05/local/la-me-ln-kelly-thomas-death-20131205

13 posted on 01/14/2014 11:21:57 PM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

It may be the jurors were genuinely afraid a guilty verdict would result in this pack of armed sadists descending on them in the dark of night.


Thats what I’ve been wondering, too. Maybe they were threatened. Thomas’ father better watch his back, too. His being a former cop won’t mean jack to the cops set free.


14 posted on 01/14/2014 11:22:48 PM PST by chessplayer
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To: Ken H

That doesn’t answer my question. Wasn’t he lying to the cops when he said he couldn’t breathe? He was talking loudly and nearly nonstop.


15 posted on 01/14/2014 11:24:14 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: chessplayer

The author of this story is Ruben Navarrette, for those who might be interested.


16 posted on 01/14/2014 11:37:09 PM PST by Misterioso (All life is a purposeful struggle, and your only choice is the choice of a goal. - Ayn Rand)
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To: chessplayer
I normally give the cops a lot of latitude (and take a lot of heat here for doing so), but this is difficult.

Everything I have seen on this case, is these cops should go away for a long time.

this appears to be a travesty.

17 posted on 01/14/2014 11:40:18 PM PST by Michael.SF. (I never thought anyone could make Jimmy Carter look good in comparison.)
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To: chessplayer

Haven’t heard much about the guy who was being chased and crashed his Corvette in Los Angeles a few weeks ago.

He died, (was murdered), about 10 seconds after he got out of the car.

As usual, unarmed with some mental issues.


18 posted on 01/14/2014 11:48:05 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (Nobody owes you a living, so shut up and get back to work...)
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To: Misterioso
The author of this story is Ruben Navarrette, for those who might be interested.

Anyone who knows anything about Navarrette should.

19 posted on 01/15/2014 12:19:24 AM PST by South40 (Liberalism is a Disease)
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To: chessplayer

I have felt this way before, when Terri Schiavo was murdered by judges and Jeb Bush. And no one went to prison.

I pray for justice for these vile murderers. Yes. That’s a threat.


20 posted on 01/15/2014 12:38:37 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: chessplayer

This makes no sense. I figured this was a slam dunk conviction.


21 posted on 01/15/2014 12:50:24 AM PST by Bullish (America should yank Obama like a rotten tooth before he poisons the entire body)
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To: chessplayer
The Police were just doing their jobs, following standard procedure. There is no record of any policeman violating any citizen's rights.











/s
22 posted on 01/15/2014 1:48:04 AM PST by Gigantor (The Fundamentally Transformed States of America)
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To: Moonman62

The coroner would back up Kelly’s plea for air, since mechanical chest compressions lead to lack of oxygen, and he became brain dead. I would say it was with his last few breaths that he should have been saying, “I can barely breath.”


23 posted on 01/15/2014 1:52:25 AM PST by healy61
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To: chessplayer

The first punch against such cowardice failed. The second punch is civil action. Which will turn up to be a tax item on that municipality’s budget, so it will be a symbolic victory.

Look, we are not supposed to be serving kings and queens. We are supposed to be governing by and for “the people.” However when “the people” are themselves overcome by cowardice, then the whole country will look cowardly.

In those police we see ourselves, in a mirror, better than we would care to admit. And as long as we pull the scepter of society away from God, that will keep on happening. It will be visibly unjust and it will just keep on a-comin’. The answer is waiting for us at the Throne of Grace but it expects us to come asking for it. We must ask God to clear out our sin and replace it with new righteousness.

“Part” of the answer is still likely a militia. Here is where 2nd Amendment aficionados, who by and large are God fearing yet, could really come out smelling like roses. Calculate the gun-to-atrocity ratio for the militia and the police, and the militia will just look super, and the police like chumps.


24 posted on 01/15/2014 3:23:10 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Arthur McGowan; All

Praying to God is an excellent step. I’ll be bold enough to posit that this is a chief reason why God staged this outrageous tragedy. “Yoo hoo! Heaven speaking! Miss Me yet?” That’s what I hear out of this.

We don’t need to stomp out a spark. We need to put out a forest fire.


25 posted on 01/15/2014 3:25:17 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Bullish

The police attorneys have sheeple’s heart number down cold.

That’s what happens when you knock God off the throne of your heart! Any plausible impostor can take its place!


26 posted on 01/15/2014 3:27:34 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

While I believe in Divine Providence, I don’t believe God staged this event. It was staged by the murderers.


27 posted on 01/15/2014 3:29:03 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Um... I ascribe more power to God than you seem to be.

God forced their hand a la hard cold Calvinism... no.

God knew how they had chosen a bent and put them in the appropriate time and place to play this out... yes.


28 posted on 01/15/2014 3:30:46 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Basically if you believe in divine providence do you believe God also provides warnings?

This is such a warning. It is a canary in our spiritual mine. The fact that it actually occurred rather than, say, playing out with the would be participants muttering their irritability harmlessly in a corner, wasn’t driven solely by the participants.

Sure those police ought to be rebuked, but something larger than us needs rebuking which has been invited way too intimately into our modern society. Satan, that is.


29 posted on 01/15/2014 3:36:45 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: AlexW

“The good old boys on the beat are a thing of the past.”

We still have a few left here in PA, but they’re rapidly disappearing as they age and retire or pass away. The younger ones taking their places are dressed like JBTs, and play the role well. I know both.


30 posted on 01/15/2014 3:46:50 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

... and not kidding about Satan.

Satan is at the root of cowardice. What happened here was cowardly. Self preservation rather than sacrificial risk for the sake of striving for a larger good has become the touchstone of public actions.

Blessedly we get a choice even vis a vis Satan. We might not be able to shake off his fog in one fell swoop, but we CAN call on the same providential God who can work around that demon very deftly. From Satan’s point of view, though he keeps it a secret because of his pride, he can’t win for losing, but damn it, he’s a proud demon, and won’t quit wreaking havoc on earth till he’s banished to hell. He’s trying to stop a waterfall of grace with a twig of sin. Victorious walks come for us when we recognize that fact and act on it in faith.

Let’s ask God for far more than rebuking or otherwise punishing the bad actors. Let’s ask God to come back into our hearts and rebuke Satan’s naysaying to God’s grace. It’s us who are refusing the grace, with a foot willingly stuck into hell.


31 posted on 01/15/2014 3:50:44 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: carriage_hill

And the good old boys were good because they loved and feared God.

No such bent is in most of the younger crop. It’s spoiling for a fight for them, with the thinnest of veneers.

It’s going to make a difference.

What could also make a difference would be evangelism, but it will need a lot more than the lukewarm affirmation of the way heaven interacts with earth we see in a whole lot of our churches. Heaven came here to get down and get dirty with sinners, so as to purify them, fill them, and lift them back up. Mt. Calvary stands at the head of eternity (”slain from the foundation of the world”) and all believers are tied supernaturally to this. It isn’t just a nice symbol to inspire us to look to ourselves. It is raw, strong spiritual power.


32 posted on 01/15/2014 3:58:29 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Amen to that.


33 posted on 01/15/2014 4:19:57 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill

I think God gets pretty tired of it when all the bragging rights that we give to Him is some distant airy fairy heaven.

Heaven has come into this world to be seized here and now, one heart at a time. (The kingdom of God is forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.)

Heaven looks really weird on this mortal coil in which we are mostly embroiled damning our neighbors under our breath. It attempts not to destroy. It sacrifices. If that spirit lived again in our public servants, we’d shortly see a flood of goodness so heavy we would scarcely know what to do with it.


34 posted on 01/15/2014 4:36:27 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: chessplayer
Am I remembering the details to this story correctly when I say that I remember a priest at the scene attempting to comfort the victim, but stopped by the police from doing so?
35 posted on 01/15/2014 4:42:21 AM PST by mware
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To: Moonman62
That was just an excelerated obamacare death panel for mental health issues.
36 posted on 01/15/2014 4:44:31 AM PST by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: mware

I dunno, but it sounds typical of men being officious, selfish, self important godless snots. When not even God is permitted into the picture, that is cruising for divine bruising. I think a divine bruising WILL come. Life will become private hell for those officers; as the bible says the unrighteous will flee at the sound of a leaf.


37 posted on 01/15/2014 4:48:50 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: chessplayer


38 posted on 01/15/2014 4:51:44 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: chessplayer

39 posted on 01/15/2014 4:53:12 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: chessplayer

And folks wonder why the L.A. cops want the populace disarmed.


40 posted on 01/15/2014 5:06:55 AM PST by G Larry
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To: gleeaikin
Was he speaking clearly before or after they crushed his thorax (or did they mean larynx?).

Great play on words. And it captures precisely what cops feel about their prey.

41 posted on 01/15/2014 5:13:20 AM PST by OldPossum ("It's" is the contraction of "it" and "is"; think about ITS implications.)
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To: chessplayer

People think the cops are on their side until they become the next victims of police violence.


42 posted on 01/15/2014 5:23:25 AM PST by pallis
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"Look, we are not supposed to be serving kings and queens."

I've always been impressed with Rubachov's theory about the relative sophistication of society in Arthur's Koestler's . As technology moves forward, the cultural sophistication of a society, and it's appreciation for the rights of an individual, not only lags behind, it regresses. It took over a thousand years before society caught up with the technology of Roman times and could conceive something like our constitution. Once technology advanced with the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, society started a march backward. Today, with our even more sophisticated technology and it's more rapid advances, we are approaching the the level of an ant colony.

43 posted on 01/15/2014 5:39:00 AM PST by PUGACHEV
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To: PUGACHEV
I meant Arthur Koestler's Darkness at Noon
44 posted on 01/15/2014 5:40:25 AM PST by PUGACHEV
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To: pallis

Too many of them ‘snap’ too quickly and easily. You can’t even talk to some without them reacting like idiots. I understand the pressures of the job can be enormous, but still.


45 posted on 01/15/2014 5:42:20 AM PST by ETL (ALL (most?) of the Obama-commie connections at my FR Home page: http://www.freerepublic.com/~etl/)
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To: PUGACHEV

Give a sinful man a dangerous tool and he may use it wrongly and harmfully.

But this is a two edged sword. Christianity sprang on the scene more readily due to the Roman occupation of the world. We may hoot at the ubiquitous televangelist, but he has brought church worship to those who might not come near to the doors of a church.

To ignore the role of God in the picture is to grasp at straws for meaning.


46 posted on 01/15/2014 5:52:13 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: ETL

It’s the lack of courage which causes brittleness. IMHO.

Meanness is a very poor substitute for courage.


47 posted on 01/15/2014 5:53:42 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: chessplayer

“It may be the jurors were genuinely afraid a guilty verdict would result in this pack of armed sadists descending on them in the dark of night.”

In Southern CA I would not be suprised if you are right.

As the police state lawlessness continues to spread and people feel like they have no recourse it would not suprise me to see retribution set in. Like maybe 6 mos down the road you read about one of the officers house burning to the ground in the middle of the night. Stuff like that. Or one of the cops gets a call out in the middle of a dark industrial park and is found the next day with two to the forehead. When folks can’t get justice they will eventually create their own justice.


48 posted on 01/15/2014 7:26:22 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: healy61
The coroner would back up Kelly’s plea for air, since mechanical chest compressions lead to lack of oxygen, and he became brain dead. I would say it was with his last few breaths that he should have been saying, “I can barely breath.”

I'm referring to the early part of the videotape and the first couple of minutes of the attempted arrest. If a person can't breathe, they can't talk. I've gotten four responses but no answer, so I'd say my assumption that he was lying and resisting arrest is correct. If I were on the jury I'd have to consider that.

As far as Thomas being coherent, and not having a psychotic episode, nobody attempted to address that.

49 posted on 01/15/2014 8:00:45 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: chessplayer
Have there been any interviews with jurors made public yet? I'd really like to hear what their 'reasoning' was for letting these murderers for the police state back out on the street.
50 posted on 01/15/2014 2:24:26 PM PST by zeugma (Is it evil of me to teach my bird to say "here kitty, kitty"?)
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