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Dogs are NOT descended from modern wolves but split from common ancestor 34,000 years ago
Daily Mail ^ | 16 January 2014 | SARAH GRIFFITHS

Posted on 01/16/2014 9:01:52 PM PST by Fractal Trader

Dogs and wolves evolved from a common ancestor between 11,000 and 34,000 years ago, according to new research.

U.S. scientists said that part of the genetic overlap observed between some modern dogs and wolves is the result of interbreeding after dog domestication and not a direct line of descent from one group of wolves. They believe their research reflects a more complicated history than the popular story that early farmers adopted a few docile, friendly wolves that later became our modern canine companions.

Dogs and wolves evolved from a common ancestor between 11,000 and 34,000 years ago but modern canines are more closely related to each other than to wolves, according to new research

Dogs and wolves evolved from a common ancestor between 11,000 and 34,000 years ago but modern canines are more closely related to each other than to wolves, according to new research Instead, the earliest dogs may have first lived among hunter-gatherer societies and adapted to agricultural life later, according to the study which is published in the journal PLoS Genetics.

Researchers from the University of Chicago said that dogs are more closely related to each other than to wolves, regardless of geographic origin as they do not descend from a single line of wolves.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afteritskind; animalhusbandry; dogs; evolution; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; wolves
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1 posted on 01/16/2014 9:01:52 PM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


2 posted on 01/16/2014 9:02:12 PM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: Fractal Trader

Interesting, but not surprising.


3 posted on 01/16/2014 9:13:59 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: Fractal Trader
Dogs and wolves evolved from a common ancestor between 11,000 and 34,000 years ago but modern canines are more closely related to each other than to wolves, according to new research

This sentence has two problems.

1) The term "canine" can refer to members of the family Canidae (domestic dogs, wolves, foxes, jackals, coyotes, and other dog-like mammals); or, more narrowly, to members of the sub-family Caninae; or, more narrowly, to members of the genus Canis (which includes dogs, wolves, coyotes, and jackals); or only to domestic dogs. So, what are the "modern canines" referred to here? I suspect they mean "domestic dogs."

2) Why "but?" Doesn't it follow that domestic dogs would be more-closely related to each other than to wolves, since (as this article posits) domestic dogs and wolves are two branches which split off from a common ancestor some time in the past?

Regards,

4 posted on 01/16/2014 9:16:00 PM PST by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Fractal Trader; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows

Let’s see, Mother Earth is 6,245 years old, as of last October, Funky Fundie Theologians tell us, which means these dogs must have come from another planet. ALIENS!


5 posted on 01/16/2014 9:16:16 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: Fractal Trader

I just spent a while researching this actually and was left with the impression that modern dogs most likely owe their genes to an asian wolf which was smaller and more dog like than the modern grey wolf. AS I recall, the domestication process occured in China approx 30-50,000 years ago.


6 posted on 01/16/2014 9:18:08 PM PST by RC one
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To: Fractal Trader

OK then someone explain German Shepards Alaskan Malamutes and Huskies. Because they didn’t evolve very far from that split.


7 posted on 01/16/2014 9:18:11 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Revolting cat!

Totally agree! I’ve been “owned” by several alien dogs. They must come from the Dog Star, Sirius, in Canis Major.


8 posted on 01/16/2014 9:20:05 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: Fractal Trader

A “common ancestor”? What, like a hybrid wolf?


9 posted on 01/16/2014 9:21:12 PM PST by Baladas
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To: Fractal Trader

A “common ancestor”? What, like a hybrid wolf?


10 posted on 01/16/2014 9:21:12 PM PST by Baladas
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; afraidfortherepublic; ...
WOOOF!

Computer Hope

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

11 posted on 01/16/2014 9:23:21 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: Fractal Trader

But what does the fox say?

http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=jofNR_WkoCE


12 posted on 01/16/2014 9:23:59 PM PST by GraceG
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To: Fractal Trader

13 posted on 01/16/2014 9:25:24 PM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: Baladas

Somewhere, dogs became to regard wolves as the killers they are, and react when they see one to this day. It probably happened long ago, but in America we’ve imported most of our breeds... I think the Carolina dog is the only ‘native’ dog we can claim.


14 posted on 01/16/2014 9:25:35 PM PST by txhurl
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To: Norm Lenhart
German Shepherds are a wolf-dog hybrid. Wolves were used early in the breeding program to give the breed its "wolfy" look.

But today, they're dogs.

I don't see a need to reclassify Canis Lupus Familiaris.

All this new research says is that the modern wolf and the domestic dog at best still cousins on the same family tree.

15 posted on 01/16/2014 9:25:52 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Bernard Marx

I think my Mastador came from the Clown Star!


16 posted on 01/16/2014 9:26:54 PM PST by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Revolting cat!
Let’s see, Mother Earth is 6,245 years old, as of last October, Funky Fundie Theologians tell us, which means these dogs must have come from another planet. ALIENS!


18 posted on 01/16/2014 9:28:19 PM PST by GraceG
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To: alexander_busek

It is not written all that well.

It’s states:

“Researchers from the University of Chicago said that dogs are more closely related to each other than to wolves, regardless of geographic origin as they do not descend from a single line of wolves.”

The key being the comparison with regard to geographic area.

You asked, “Doesn’t it follow that domestic dogs would be more-closely related to each other than to wolves, since (as this article posits) domestic dogs and wolves are two branches which split off from a common ancestor some time in the past?”

Yes, you are right. But what the geographic analysis does is confirm that the dogs did not come from wolves directly because if so, they would have come from a certain line of wolves in a certain geographic region.

So, dogs would be closer to dogs than to wolves, but there would be more similarity to certain wolves of certain geographic areas than to wolves in other areas if dogs had come from wolves.

But these geographic based differences aren’t seen.


19 posted on 01/16/2014 9:28:52 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: Fractal Trader

I always have an issue with the date. Was it exactly 34,000 years, not a year before or after? And how was the date arrived at? And lastly but not exclusively, has anyone done the math on canine reproductive rates? We would be overun with canines by now, as well as everything else on earth.

Steely Dan from “Reeling In The Years:”

The weekend at the college
Didn’t turn out like you planned
The things that pass for knowledge
I can’t understand

I can, the college is not after truth.


20 posted on 01/16/2014 9:40:29 PM PST by Fungi
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To: GraceG

thank you so much for sharing that picture with me.


21 posted on 01/16/2014 9:42:40 PM PST by RC one
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: EinNYC
+∞²
23 posted on 01/16/2014 9:46:15 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Norm Lenhart

Add Norwegian Elkhound.


24 posted on 01/16/2014 9:55:14 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: Olog-hai

What does THAT mean?


25 posted on 01/16/2014 10:02:09 PM PST by EinNYC
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To: EinNYC

Just a variation on that “+1” thing done in some forums when one person agrees with another’s post. Reads “plus infinity squared” in longhand; just a bit of hyperbole on my part.


26 posted on 01/16/2014 10:04:01 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: GraceG

Is that really necessary?


27 posted on 01/16/2014 10:27:14 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Fractal Trader

Coincidentally milkbones were invented between 11,000 and 34,000 years ago.


28 posted on 01/16/2014 10:38:25 PM PST by Organic Panic
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To: GraceG; mrsmith

And to this very day the iconic Chinese dog is called a Chow.

(Why are there no Mein Streets in Chinatown???)


29 posted on 01/16/2014 10:51:50 PM PST by null and void (We need to shake this snowglobe up.)
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To: Fungi
We would be overun with canines by now, as well as everything else on earth.

Have you forgotten that it's a dog eat dog world?

30 posted on 01/16/2014 10:53:26 PM PST by null and void (We need to shake this snowglobe up.)
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To: Revolting cat!

Might be closer to the truth than you’d think, though I could quibble on the details. (The good bishop got a little TOO speculative there, methinks.)

Why we should even expect to see the original 7 day creation world is beyond me. It had continuity with the Garden of Eden, which is now out of view.

We could call it a two-universe theory.


31 posted on 01/16/2014 10:55:45 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar for you if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Revolting cat!
which means these dogs must have come from another planet. ALIENS!


32 posted on 01/16/2014 11:06:35 PM PST by a fool in paradise ("Health care is too important to be left to the government.")
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To: JoeProBono

Anyone who doubts mammal aren’t descended from dinosaurs, hasn’t seen my Akita yawn.


33 posted on 01/16/2014 11:07:37 PM PST by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: goldstategop

Makes perfect sense. Figured they were too close for happenstance. But then I’m a Basset Hound sorta guy. But I surely appreciate the sheer grace and power of a Sheppard.


34 posted on 01/16/2014 11:17:23 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: VanShuyten

35 posted on 01/16/2014 11:21:29 PM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: Revolting cat!

If presidents can be aliens then so can dogs. ( maybe that’s why he eats them , too?)


36 posted on 01/17/2014 12:58:37 AM PST by faithhopecharity (C)
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To: JoeProBono

Chihuahuadon?


37 posted on 01/17/2014 1:00:28 AM PST by Redcloak (Winter is coming.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Glad to see this thread. Based on the extreme differences in physical qualities between all the various breeds - it’s not impossible to believe that human ancestors domesticated dozens of wild ‘canines’ that are now extinct.

Hard to believe that primitive humans, on all the different continents; with the range of climate, terrain, flora and fauna, discovered and domesticated just the one grey wolf.


38 posted on 01/17/2014 1:48:57 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Duh.


39 posted on 01/17/2014 2:37:29 AM PST by Salamander (Sleeping don't come very easy in a strait white vest.)
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To: goldstategop

?

http://www.nsgsdc.com/breedhistory.shtml


40 posted on 01/17/2014 2:44:53 AM PST by Salamander (Sleeping don't come very easy in a strait white vest.)
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To: Salamander

Amazing LOOK at the Hips and legs on the early 1900 GSD and the ones in later years. Totally different!


41 posted on 01/17/2014 4:27:34 AM PST by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty and Let the the Stupid AmericanTaxpayer foot the bill !)
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To: Fractal Trader
Yooz Iz Wrong.


Doggiez Iz Descended Frum KITTEHZ!
42 posted on 01/17/2014 4:34:04 AM PST by left that other site
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To: alexander_busek

Words have meanings and grammar enables words to convey the author’s intended meaning. This seems lost on our thumb typing text-o-matic generation. Thank you for the discussion.


43 posted on 01/17/2014 4:49:43 AM PST by Lion Den Dan
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To: left that other site

That made me LOL.


44 posted on 01/17/2014 4:49:43 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: Fractal Trader
Read the research here:Genome Sequencing Highlights the Dynamic Early History of Dogs
45 posted on 01/17/2014 4:53:51 AM PST by Varda
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To: ilovesarah2012

hee hee... a little cheer for this icy cold morning, to warm you up! :-)


46 posted on 01/17/2014 5:04:00 AM PST by left that other site
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To: JoeProBono

This thread has gone to the dogs.


47 posted on 01/17/2014 5:13:16 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Sooooooooo:

If you lay down with dogs, you wake up with flees.

And, if you lay down with wolves, you wake up...

Without your vital organs...
With the cousins of flees...
With a strong desire to eat your dog, cat and hamster.


48 posted on 01/17/2014 6:22:43 AM PST by VRW Conspirator ( 2+2 = V)
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To: chicagolady

I know.

Vanity and fashion are the ruin of many a great breed.


49 posted on 01/17/2014 6:46:00 AM PST by Salamander (Sleeping don't come very easy in a strait white vest.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Don’t tell this to my wolf dog. He’ll talk your ear off telling you different, especially if he thinks it means he has to be a pet and not the master.


50 posted on 01/17/2014 6:46:00 AM PST by pallis
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