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Vt. lawmakers look at paying for single-payer (13% payroll tax!)
WCAX TV ^ | 1/16/14 | Kyle Midura

Posted on 01/17/2014 3:12:34 PM PST by Straight Vermonter

MONTPELIER, Vt. -In a rare move, a Democratic senator held the floor for much of the Senate Republicans' caucus Thursday.

"I know that I'm in a forum of skeptics and I want to emphasize that I am a supporter. I introduced a financing bill because I believe in it but I also think it's important to have an honest discussion about what this is going to cost and how to do it," said Sen. Peter Galbraith, D-Windham County.

Act 48 required Gov. Peter Shumlin to explain how to pay for a single-payer system last January. He cited implementation delay for only providing a vague outline instead. Galbraith says the governor's proposal will look like his.

"There's really only one way to pay for it in broad terms and that is by an employer-- a payroll tax imposed on employers," Galbraith said.

Galbraith proposes an 11 percent tax on employer payroll and a 2 percent rate for employees. Self-employed would pay both ends and the self-insured would not be exempted; federal employees would keep their current government coverage. Galbraith concedes his tax structure may need tweaking to accommodate plan costs-- current estimates suggest between $1.6 billion and $2 billion-- and legislators' tastes.

A separate hearing on the House side also focused on the future of health care.

"We want to have the highest quality, the best access, but just be a little less expensive than the United States," said Al Gobeille, the chair of the Green Mountain Care Board.

Gobeille told legislators financing and plan creation can't be done separately. However, that package still needs to be imagined.

"Financing not defined, and the word sustainable, not defined, so the words I feel good about are 'for' and 'is,'" Gobeille said.

Board members have not even defined the term benefits yet. Before it can sign off on single-payer, members must be convinced:

Vermonters will be offered strong plans

The move would not have a net negative impact on the economy

Financing is sustainable

The system shows better value than the 2011 market did

Cost containment will not reduce access

A sufficient reimbursement rate for health providers

"These are the things that make your knees buckle," Gobeille said.

After setting dates for further discussion, the board turned its attention to current reform. As administrators for Vermont's exchange sought changes to approved plans for 2015 in order to comply with federal standards. Regardless of what the state does, single-payer won't move forward unless the federal government signs off on re-purposing exchange funds to run it.

The Senate Finance Committee will review Galbraith's plan Friday. Administration officials are also expected to be there, but it's not clear if they will provide any plans of their own.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Vermont
KEYWORDS: healthcare; obamacare; singlepayer; vermont; vt2014
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The idea that the legislature is concerned about stable financing and the impact on the economy is laughable. They have enacted program after program in this state only to watch the costs for each skyrocket.

Single payer is going to happen in VT come hell or high water. The liberals have far too much invested politically to stop now. There will be some perfunctory discussion about the loss of jobs but that is all.

Pray for those of us behind the maple curtain.

1 posted on 01/17/2014 3:12:34 PM PST by Straight Vermonter
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To: Straight Vermonter
Fine, let Vermont experiment with SP if other states can experiment with free market solutions to health care and see what works.

But that's not going to happen.

2 posted on 01/17/2014 3:24:22 PM PST by AU72
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To: AU72

This will solve everyone’s health care issues. I am glad that I don’t live in the Vermont nirvana that this guy wants.


3 posted on 01/17/2014 3:30:25 PM PST by phormer phrog phlyer
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To: AU72
"We want to have the highest quality, the best access, but just be a little less expensive than the United States,"

Heh, so this guy admits that Vermont is NOT part of the United States.

Quality? Paying doctors Medicaid rates ain't gonna get there.

Access? Refer to what I just said.

Less expensive? I'll wager that this will cost triple what the initial estimates are, and quality and access will drop like a stone.

And a side wager that when it DOES, that instead of repealing the monstrosity, the liberals ask for more taxes.

4 posted on 01/17/2014 3:50:26 PM PST by boop (Liberal religion. No rules, just right!)
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To: Straight Vermonter

13% would become 15% and then 17% while care gets more and more restricted


5 posted on 01/17/2014 3:53:53 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: boop

I guess all those “doctors” from Bangladesh and Cuba are going to be in for quite the culture shock in Vermont.

Seriously, its time to start building insane asylums and lock up domestic marxists politicians who come up with hare brained schemes like single payer.

They are mentally ill, and need to be put somewhere where they no longer pose a threat.

It’s us or them


6 posted on 01/17/2014 3:55:27 PM PST by Rome2000 (THE WASHINGTONIANS AND UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE ARE THE ENEMY -ROTATE THE CAPITAL AMONGST THE STATES)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Tomorrow I tap my big maple tree........

East Tennessee Maple syrup......... Yummmm

Best in the world. Southern photons yield greater maple biomass and sweeter syrup


7 posted on 01/17/2014 3:58:14 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Straight Vermonter

How much of Vermonts revenue comes from tourism? Anyone know.

I realize they have a few colleges up there to support those communities and that the place is getting about as liberal as one place could get, but other than skiing and college, what else is up there?

Be interesting to see how expensive lift tickets, etc are going to become when all these costs are passed off to the tourists and those that have vacation homes up there.


8 posted on 01/17/2014 4:31:15 PM PST by qaz123
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So only those working pay for everyone. That’s nice.


9 posted on 01/17/2014 4:38:21 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: qaz123

Lift tickets are already in the $80-$100 range. For mashed-potato man-made, frozen granular and ass-busting ice.


10 posted on 01/17/2014 4:47:57 PM PST by BillyBonebrake
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To: Straight Vermonter

Not wasting any of my prayer time on Vermont. The best I can do for you is to send ammunition. You’ve got some people there who are so damdumb that killing might be their only cure. If they refuse re-education in business and math then your choices are limited. At a minimum the outlined proposal will accelerate the underground economy like nothing else imagined. Then you can watch jobs leave the state on the imagined bullet train I’m sure the same geniuses would no doubt love to have-—the one that connects them to Nirvana-—or maybe Greece.


11 posted on 01/17/2014 4:54:23 PM PST by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Good incentive for employers not to hire anybody.


12 posted on 01/17/2014 4:55:37 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr; Straight Vermonter

The right and moral thing to do would be for the government to tax everyone at 100% and then distribute the money to each according to his need. It’s what I would do, if it wasn’t for the greedy capitalists who want to keep what they earn.


13 posted on 01/17/2014 5:01:20 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: Hardastarboard

Removes all incentive to earn money.


14 posted on 01/17/2014 5:05:21 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

“Galbraith proposes an 11 percent tax on employer payroll and a 2 percent rate for employees. Self-employed would pay both ends and the self-insured would not be exempted”

Good gravy!

In all seriousness, it would probably be cheaper to just create a medical tourism fund to fly people down to Panama or one of the other countries with for-profit hospitals catering to westerners with hard currency. Great care and low prices - everything Vt’s plan won’t offer!


15 posted on 01/17/2014 5:05:43 PM PST by DemforBush (Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream?)
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To: Cvengr

The employers will be paying 11% of the bill. What kind of incentive does that provide for employers to hire people or to remain in VT? Get ready NH for a flood of refugees from the Socialist State of Vermont.


16 posted on 01/17/2014 5:33:14 PM PST by kabar
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To: DemforBush

“In all seriousness, it would probably be cheaper to just create a medical tourism fund to fly people down to Panama or one of the other countries with for-profit hospitals catering to westerners with hard currency. Great care and low prices - everything Vt’s plan won’t offer!”

Even better, establish massive medical centers on Indian reservations though out the U.S., establish a network of such centers such that the confederated group of centers could sell their own set of health insurance policies. Buy one of those instead of an obamacare policy and refuse to pay the fine. I’d trust my health to the American Indians before I would Obama.


17 posted on 01/17/2014 5:37:27 PM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Years ago, the communists from Ct, Ma, NY, NJ, etc. moved North to escape their local Gulags .... but somehow, wherever they went ... they brought themselves along.


18 posted on 01/17/2014 5:53:24 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (It's difficult to differentiate between a hog calling contest and a Senate rollcall.)
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To: bert

I’ll have my bro send me some. Lived in VT for 3 yrs long ago and savor the syrup, but I will definitely try TN syrup. To me, it is amber gold!


19 posted on 01/17/2014 6:27:09 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: Straight Vermonter
It is hard to see how a 13% tax rate will raise sufficient funds. According to census data Vermont has a median household income of $54,168 with an average of 2.34 people per household.

According to Vermont's health insurance exchange, Bronze plans for a couple are $672 a month, and for a parent and child, $648 per month. A single person's premium is $336 per month.

So a typical household of two people will pay around $8000 per year for health insurance, most of which ends up paying for medical care somewhere. But the proposed 13% payroll tax only ends up generating $7041 for the median household, leaving the state fund short by $1000 per household for households at the median, and the deficit grows for households below the median income.

The scheme simply isn't viable, since the benefits delivered are the same regardless of how much a household earns. Employers may benefit, since they get to limit their costs of offering health insurance to their workers to 11% of the worker's salary, but it is unlikely that the overall approach will work.

20 posted on 01/17/2014 6:41:01 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: Straight Vermonter
Another way to see if the plan has a chance of success is to divide the supposed budget - 1.6 to 2 billion dollars, by the population of Vermont, which is about 626,000 people.

The result provides an average spending per person, which related to what insurance costs typically are since insurance companies have to set premiums based on expected costs.

At the low end, the state expects an average spending per person of $2555, at the high end $3194 per person. But the lowest level of insurance coverage offered now in Vermont costs $336 per month, or $4032 per year. Again, the proposed budgets seem insufficient to deliver medical care of the sort people are used to.

21 posted on 01/17/2014 6:48:38 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: freeandfreezing

Vermont already had a form of socialized medicine, I thought. I thought that Dr. Dean introduced some type of rationed health care.

Anyway, I have been waiting for an article on VT to mention the problem that the governor spoke about during his state of the state address, heroin and prescription medicine abuse.

I have a sister-in-law who still lives in VT and for the past five years has been talking about the rationed health care. Evidently, certain operations are only performed at certain hospitals two times a year and there is a limit on the number of patients who will be treated during one of those periods. For example, back surgery was done in June and in December and they only had 15 slots for the back surgery, my sister-in-law was number 16, so she had to wait until December.

So, you ask, where is this going. I’ll tell you. the doctors told my sister-in-law, don’t worry, we will keep you supplied with pain pills until your operation. They gave her oxy-contin. She had to tell them that she needed something milder because she had kids at home. But that is how the people of VT are getting addicted to prescription pain medicine, the doctors give it to them so that they can cope with the delayed treatment.


22 posted on 01/17/2014 6:51:30 PM PST by Eva
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To: Straight Vermonter

Remember the free state movement?

Looks like it didn’t work out so well.


23 posted on 01/17/2014 7:02:44 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Cvengr

It was bitter sarcasm, and a partial quote of Marx, without a /sarc tag.


24 posted on 01/17/2014 7:31:46 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Absolutely insane. Vt taxes are already the highest per capita in the country.


25 posted on 01/17/2014 8:12:10 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Having some small say in who gets to hold the whip doesn't make you any less a slave.)
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To: boop

“We want to have the highest quality, the best access, but just be a little less expensive than the United States,” <<

Hell!..if its all about “want”....Where’s my pony???


26 posted on 01/17/2014 10:27:25 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: qaz123

but other than skiing and college, what else is up there?<

Retired government workers from Mass. and Conn.


27 posted on 01/17/2014 10:31:43 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: bert
Tomorrow I tap my big maple tree........ East Tennessee Maple syrup......... Yummmm Best in the world. Southern photons yield greater maple biomass and sweeter syrup

But how good is your lobster???

I never thought of Tennessee as a maple syrup source - nothing better than the real stuff - how would one go about purchasing a bottle of "Southern-photon-enhanced" syrup? Any outlets you are aware of?

28 posted on 01/18/2014 3:34:33 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb
----But how good is your lobster???-----

Scrawny and very tough

29 posted on 01/18/2014 5:29:18 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: trebb
-----Any outlets-----

So far as I know there are no commercial outlets

The folks at Tipton Haines make and sell syrup but it is all gone in a heartbeat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipton-Haynes_State_Historic_Site

30 posted on 01/18/2014 5:38:16 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: bert

Looks like a crayfish - does it go as good with syrup as a good sausage?


31 posted on 01/18/2014 5:42:31 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: bert

Thanks for the tip - I’ll check the site and dream of waffles smothered in butter and swimming in fresh syrup...


32 posted on 01/18/2014 5:43:54 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Hardastarboard

no problem, I concur


33 posted on 01/18/2014 5:46:04 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Straight Vermonter
The move would not have a net negative impact on the economy

The people that think a sudden 13% payroll tax will have no negative impact on the economy are the very same people that think plant food increasing 0.01% of the atmosphere over 100 years will cause the sky to fall.

34 posted on 01/18/2014 6:12:46 AM PST by Reeses
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To: Straight Vermonter

The U-Haul companies will be very busy helping people flee Vermont.


35 posted on 01/18/2014 6:18:57 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: kabar

No the employee wil be paying all 13% in reality. It will just look like the employer was paying the 11%. Liberals never learn.


36 posted on 01/18/2014 6:26:48 AM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: Kozak

Actually the consumer will be paying the costs.


37 posted on 01/18/2014 8:50:14 AM PST by kabar
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To: Eva

What you wrote about rationing certain operation in Vermont is not true. Not yet at least.

That is clearly the way that the health costs WILL be kept under control.


38 posted on 01/18/2014 8:53:56 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: redgolum
Remember the free state movement?

Looks like it didn’t work out so well.

Wrong state.

39 posted on 01/18/2014 8:55:11 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: ridesthemiles
The U-Haul companies will be very busy helping people flee Vermont.

Vermont is already the second "most grey" state because young people can't make a living here. Once they are out of school they get out as quickly as possible.

40 posted on 01/18/2014 8:59:11 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: catnipman
Even better, establish massive medical centers on Indian reservations though out the U.S.,

I had that same thought a year or so ago, so there must be something wrong with it.

41 posted on 01/18/2014 4:43:22 PM PST by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: redgolum

Around 1975, a group of hardcore communists, marxists, socialists and liberals from various protest groups (including SDS, Communist Party USA, the Chicago 7 defendants, and liberal assholes) made a conscious effort and formulated a plan to takeover Vermont by infiltration, election, and political appointments.

They succeeded far beyond their wildest imagination. They specifically targetted small town councils/townhall governments in the university cities/towns, and got their people elected. Joine Froines, a Chicago 7 radical, got appointed the head of their environmental department.

Maoist radical Lee Webb (The Guardian, US communist weekly) abandoned his family in DC and also got a job up there. Communist/Hanoi Lobby leader Dave Dellinger moved to Vermont to help spearhead this movement.

You also had the Goddard-Cambridge School overrun by reds of various types, including Leslie Cagan, one of the key leaders of the so-called “Anti-war movement”. Cagan, a longtime red, was involved in every major Communist Party united front protest organization since 1967 (Spring Mobe, then National Move, New Mobe, Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice, plus Arthur Kinoy’s failed new communist party, the NCIPA (National Committee for Independent Political Action), MFS (Mobilization for Survival) (had some KGB influence in that affair), the Nuclear Freeze, etc.

The Red “revolution” succeeded very well in Vermont. Isn’t marxist Bernie Sanders (I-VT) one of your senators, and before that a Representative and local/state official?

Yep, you’ve been subverted, perverted and duped, Vermonters. Apparently the marxist poison and stupidity is still in your political mentality and system.

Time to wake up and do something to oppose this crap, like the Green Mountain Boys did up your way against another form of tyranny and its’ oppressive taxation.

If you need a slogan for your cause, look next door to New Hampshire, a state also under major marxist assault. Their flag simply says “Live Free or Die”!

Be a Man, Take a Stand, Destroy the Enemy in 2014, then 2016. (The same applies to patriotic women. I know that you are just as tought as the guys because my daughter is taking a Stand where I live, as well as taking names and kicking leftist ass. Her boots weren’t just made for walkin’)

See you are the barricades and the polls.


42 posted on 01/18/2014 10:13:42 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: BillyBonebrake

I learned to ski in the northeast. Went to Aspen for spring break one year. Got on a Northeastern ski slope one more time after that, then hung ‘em up. I got spoiled being out West.


43 posted on 01/18/2014 10:40:16 PM PST by qaz123
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To: M-cubed

I guess I now know why that state is going to hell.


44 posted on 01/18/2014 10:40:52 PM PST by qaz123
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To: qaz123

if I offended ya....Excuse me!!....But tell me the truth...and why you ended up there?


45 posted on 01/18/2014 10:51:56 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: Rome2000

In full agreement.


46 posted on 01/18/2014 10:55:14 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Gawd!..wish them on!

They’ll stop when it hurts..Trust me!!


47 posted on 01/18/2014 10:55:24 PM PST by M-cubed
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To: catnipman

Interesting!


48 posted on 01/19/2014 12:43:06 AM PST by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: itsahoot

“I had that same thought a year or so ago, so there must be something wrong with it. “

Yeah, it’s not an original thought for me. My original idea several years ago had been to local the centers in the Caribbean or in Mexico on land adjacent to the U.S. and completely walled off except for one road entrance to Mexico and one to the U.S.

However, the Indian Reservations might be a better idea because they are scattered about the U.S., making them more convenient for many people.


49 posted on 01/19/2014 8:14:52 AM PST by catnipman (Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!)
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To: kabar

Self employed would pay this 13% plus both sides of Social Security for another 13+% on top of state income tax and Federal tax. Sounds like the self employed have the choice to go out of business or jump their prices for their labor, as well as other employers adjusting.

I think I’d relocate.


50 posted on 01/19/2014 8:46:28 AM PST by damper99
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