Skip to comments.Vt. lawmakers look at paying for single-payer (13% payroll tax!)
Posted on 01/17/2014 3:12:34 PM PST by Straight Vermonter
MONTPELIER, Vt. -In a rare move, a Democratic senator held the floor for much of the Senate Republicans' caucus Thursday.
"I know that I'm in a forum of skeptics and I want to emphasize that I am a supporter. I introduced a financing bill because I believe in it but I also think it's important to have an honest discussion about what this is going to cost and how to do it," said Sen. Peter Galbraith, D-Windham County.
Act 48 required Gov. Peter Shumlin to explain how to pay for a single-payer system last January. He cited implementation delay for only providing a vague outline instead. Galbraith says the governor's proposal will look like his.
"There's really only one way to pay for it in broad terms and that is by an employer-- a payroll tax imposed on employers," Galbraith said.
Galbraith proposes an 11 percent tax on employer payroll and a 2 percent rate for employees. Self-employed would pay both ends and the self-insured would not be exempted; federal employees would keep their current government coverage. Galbraith concedes his tax structure may need tweaking to accommodate plan costs-- current estimates suggest between $1.6 billion and $2 billion-- and legislators' tastes.
A separate hearing on the House side also focused on the future of health care.
"We want to have the highest quality, the best access, but just be a little less expensive than the United States," said Al Gobeille, the chair of the Green Mountain Care Board.
Gobeille told legislators financing and plan creation can't be done separately. However, that package still needs to be imagined.
"Financing not defined, and the word sustainable, not defined, so the words I feel good about are 'for' and 'is,'" Gobeille said.
Board members have not even defined the term benefits yet. Before it can sign off on single-payer, members must be convinced:
Vermonters will be offered strong plans
The move would not have a net negative impact on the economy
Financing is sustainable
The system shows better value than the 2011 market did
Cost containment will not reduce access
A sufficient reimbursement rate for health providers
"These are the things that make your knees buckle," Gobeille said.
After setting dates for further discussion, the board turned its attention to current reform. As administrators for Vermont's exchange sought changes to approved plans for 2015 in order to comply with federal standards. Regardless of what the state does, single-payer won't move forward unless the federal government signs off on re-purposing exchange funds to run it.
The Senate Finance Committee will review Galbraith's plan Friday. Administration officials are also expected to be there, but it's not clear if they will provide any plans of their own.
Single payer is going to happen in VT come hell or high water. The liberals have far too much invested politically to stop now. There will be some perfunctory discussion about the loss of jobs but that is all.
Pray for those of us behind the maple curtain.
But that's not going to happen.
This will solve everyone’s health care issues. I am glad that I don’t live in the Vermont nirvana that this guy wants.
Heh, so this guy admits that Vermont is NOT part of the United States.
Quality? Paying doctors Medicaid rates ain't gonna get there.
Access? Refer to what I just said.
Less expensive? I'll wager that this will cost triple what the initial estimates are, and quality and access will drop like a stone.
And a side wager that when it DOES, that instead of repealing the monstrosity, the liberals ask for more taxes.
13% would become 15% and then 17% while care gets more and more restricted
I guess all those “doctors” from Bangladesh and Cuba are going to be in for quite the culture shock in Vermont.
Seriously, its time to start building insane asylums and lock up domestic marxists politicians who come up with hare brained schemes like single payer.
They are mentally ill, and need to be put somewhere where they no longer pose a threat.
It’s us or them
Tomorrow I tap my big maple tree........
East Tennessee Maple syrup......... Yummmm
Best in the world. Southern photons yield greater maple biomass and sweeter syrup
How much of Vermonts revenue comes from tourism? Anyone know.
I realize they have a few colleges up there to support those communities and that the place is getting about as liberal as one place could get, but other than skiing and college, what else is up there?
Be interesting to see how expensive lift tickets, etc are going to become when all these costs are passed off to the tourists and those that have vacation homes up there.
So only those working pay for everyone. That’s nice.
Lift tickets are already in the $80-$100 range. For mashed-potato man-made, frozen granular and ass-busting ice.
Not wasting any of my prayer time on Vermont. The best I can do for you is to send ammunition. You’ve got some people there who are so damdumb that killing might be their only cure. If they refuse re-education in business and math then your choices are limited. At a minimum the outlined proposal will accelerate the underground economy like nothing else imagined. Then you can watch jobs leave the state on the imagined bullet train I’m sure the same geniuses would no doubt love to have-—the one that connects them to Nirvana-—or maybe Greece.
Good incentive for employers not to hire anybody.
The right and moral thing to do would be for the government to tax everyone at 100% and then distribute the money to each according to his need. It’s what I would do, if it wasn’t for the greedy capitalists who want to keep what they earn.
Removes all incentive to earn money.
“Galbraith proposes an 11 percent tax on employer payroll and a 2 percent rate for employees. Self-employed would pay both ends and the self-insured would not be exempted”
In all seriousness, it would probably be cheaper to just create a medical tourism fund to fly people down to Panama or one of the other countries with for-profit hospitals catering to westerners with hard currency. Great care and low prices - everything Vt’s plan won’t offer!
The employers will be paying 11% of the bill. What kind of incentive does that provide for employers to hire people or to remain in VT? Get ready NH for a flood of refugees from the Socialist State of Vermont.
“In all seriousness, it would probably be cheaper to just create a medical tourism fund to fly people down to Panama or one of the other countries with for-profit hospitals catering to westerners with hard currency. Great care and low prices - everything Vts plan wont offer!”
Even better, establish massive medical centers on Indian reservations though out the U.S., establish a network of such centers such that the confederated group of centers could sell their own set of health insurance policies. Buy one of those instead of an obamacare policy and refuse to pay the fine. I’d trust my health to the American Indians before I would Obama.
Years ago, the communists from Ct, Ma, NY, NJ, etc. moved North to escape their local Gulags .... but somehow, wherever they went ... they brought themselves along.
I’ll have my bro send me some. Lived in VT for 3 yrs long ago and savor the syrup, but I will definitely try TN syrup. To me, it is amber gold!
According to Vermont's health insurance exchange, Bronze plans for a couple are $672 a month, and for a parent and child, $648 per month. A single person's premium is $336 per month.
So a typical household of two people will pay around $8000 per year for health insurance, most of which ends up paying for medical care somewhere. But the proposed 13% payroll tax only ends up generating $7041 for the median household, leaving the state fund short by $1000 per household for households at the median, and the deficit grows for households below the median income.
The scheme simply isn't viable, since the benefits delivered are the same regardless of how much a household earns. Employers may benefit, since they get to limit their costs of offering health insurance to their workers to 11% of the worker's salary, but it is unlikely that the overall approach will work.
The result provides an average spending per person, which related to what insurance costs typically are since insurance companies have to set premiums based on expected costs.
At the low end, the state expects an average spending per person of $2555, at the high end $3194 per person. But the lowest level of insurance coverage offered now in Vermont costs $336 per month, or $4032 per year. Again, the proposed budgets seem insufficient to deliver medical care of the sort people are used to.
Vermont already had a form of socialized medicine, I thought. I thought that Dr. Dean introduced some type of rationed health care.
Anyway, I have been waiting for an article on VT to mention the problem that the governor spoke about during his state of the state address, heroin and prescription medicine abuse.
I have a sister-in-law who still lives in VT and for the past five years has been talking about the rationed health care. Evidently, certain operations are only performed at certain hospitals two times a year and there is a limit on the number of patients who will be treated during one of those periods. For example, back surgery was done in June and in December and they only had 15 slots for the back surgery, my sister-in-law was number 16, so she had to wait until December.
So, you ask, where is this going. I’ll tell you. the doctors told my sister-in-law, don’t worry, we will keep you supplied with pain pills until your operation. They gave her oxy-contin. She had to tell them that she needed something milder because she had kids at home. But that is how the people of VT are getting addicted to prescription pain medicine, the doctors give it to them so that they can cope with the delayed treatment.
Remember the free state movement?
Looks like it didn’t work out so well.
It was bitter sarcasm, and a partial quote of Marx, without a /sarc tag.
Absolutely insane. Vt taxes are already the highest per capita in the country.
“We want to have the highest quality, the best access, but just be a little less expensive than the United States,” <<
Hell!..if its all about “want”....Where’s my pony???
but other than skiing and college, what else is up there?<
Retired government workers from Mass. and Conn.
But how good is your lobster???
I never thought of Tennessee as a maple syrup source - nothing better than the real stuff - how would one go about purchasing a bottle of "Southern-photon-enhanced" syrup? Any outlets you are aware of?
Scrawny and very tough
So far as I know there are no commercial outlets
The folks at Tipton Haines make and sell syrup but it is all gone in a heartbeat
Looks like a crayfish - does it go as good with syrup as a good sausage?
Thanks for the tip - I’ll check the site and dream of waffles smothered in butter and swimming in fresh syrup...
no problem, I concur
The people that think a sudden 13% payroll tax will have no negative impact on the economy are the very same people that think plant food increasing 0.01% of the atmosphere over 100 years will cause the sky to fall.
The U-Haul companies will be very busy helping people flee Vermont.
No the employee wil be paying all 13% in reality. It will just look like the employer was paying the 11%. Liberals never learn.
Actually the consumer will be paying the costs.
What you wrote about rationing certain operation in Vermont is not true. Not yet at least.
That is clearly the way that the health costs WILL be kept under control.
Looks like it didnt work out so well.
Vermont is already the second "most grey" state because young people can't make a living here. Once they are out of school they get out as quickly as possible.
I had that same thought a year or so ago, so there must be something wrong with it.
Around 1975, a group of hardcore communists, marxists, socialists and liberals from various protest groups (including SDS, Communist Party USA, the Chicago 7 defendants, and liberal assholes) made a conscious effort and formulated a plan to takeover Vermont by infiltration, election, and political appointments.
They succeeded far beyond their wildest imagination. They specifically targetted small town councils/townhall governments in the university cities/towns, and got their people elected. Joine Froines, a Chicago 7 radical, got appointed the head of their environmental department.
Maoist radical Lee Webb (The Guardian, US communist weekly) abandoned his family in DC and also got a job up there. Communist/Hanoi Lobby leader Dave Dellinger moved to Vermont to help spearhead this movement.
You also had the Goddard-Cambridge School overrun by reds of various types, including Leslie Cagan, one of the key leaders of the so-called “Anti-war movement”. Cagan, a longtime red, was involved in every major Communist Party united front protest organization since 1967 (Spring Mobe, then National Move, New Mobe, Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice, plus Arthur Kinoy’s failed new communist party, the NCIPA (National Committee for Independent Political Action), MFS (Mobilization for Survival) (had some KGB influence in that affair), the Nuclear Freeze, etc.
The Red “revolution” succeeded very well in Vermont. Isn’t marxist Bernie Sanders (I-VT) one of your senators, and before that a Representative and local/state official?
Yep, you’ve been subverted, perverted and duped, Vermonters. Apparently the marxist poison and stupidity is still in your political mentality and system.
Time to wake up and do something to oppose this crap, like the Green Mountain Boys did up your way against another form of tyranny and its’ oppressive taxation.
If you need a slogan for your cause, look next door to New Hampshire, a state also under major marxist assault. Their flag simply says “Live Free or Die”!
Be a Man, Take a Stand, Destroy the Enemy in 2014, then 2016. (The same applies to patriotic women. I know that you are just as tought as the guys because my daughter is taking a Stand where I live, as well as taking names and kicking leftist ass. Her boots weren’t just made for walkin’)
See you are the barricades and the polls.
I learned to ski in the northeast. Went to Aspen for spring break one year. Got on a Northeastern ski slope one more time after that, then hung ‘em up. I got spoiled being out West.
I guess I now know why that state is going to hell.
if I offended ya....Excuse me!!....But tell me the truth...and why you ended up there?
In full agreement.
Gawd!..wish them on!
They’ll stop when it hurts..Trust me!!
“I had that same thought a year or so ago, so there must be something wrong with it. “
Yeah, it’s not an original thought for me. My original idea several years ago had been to local the centers in the Caribbean or in Mexico on land adjacent to the U.S. and completely walled off except for one road entrance to Mexico and one to the U.S.
However, the Indian Reservations might be a better idea because they are scattered about the U.S., making them more convenient for many people.
Self employed would pay this 13% plus both sides of Social Security for another 13+% on top of state income tax and Federal tax. Sounds like the self employed have the choice to go out of business or jump their prices for their labor, as well as other employers adjusting.
I think I’d relocate.