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Navy’s new carrier so large the crew need an app to find their way about (Royal Navy)
London Evening Standard ^ | 14 January 2014

Posted on 01/17/2014 9:27:24 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Making waves: a CGI of how the 65,000-tonne HMS Queen Elizabeth will look.

They have been joining up the dots —almost literally — on HMS Queen Elizabeth, the new aircraft carrier, the largest warship built in Britain, which is now towering above the rooftops in Rosyth dockyard.

The five huge sections from different yards for the 65,000-tonne ship have been assembled. In the coming year it will be floated out of the dock, and named by the Queen — the first naval ship to bear her name.

Crew members are shortly to be given a special app for their mobile phones to help them navigate around the ship.

Walking through the ship recently on a clear winter’s day was like walking through the giant set of a sci-fi movie. Cables and wires of all kinds seem to stretch for miles. In all, 12,500 miles of fibre-optic cable will be installed and 18,750 miles of copper wiring. The flight deck space is more than three football pitches .

Captain Simon Petitt, 46, commands the Royal Navy crew of 111 now involved in the construction — almost 10 times as many civilian workers are employed. The captain keeps up a steady bombardment of statistics.

The ship is the Navy’s biggest ever. But it will take a crew of only 690 to drive it and man it — this goes up to 1,680 when the F35 attack jets are on board. Alternatively the ship can carry 920 Royal Marines.

“The Americans tell me that we are either heroic or stupid,” says Captain Petitt, “They want to know how we manage it with such small numbers.”

He adds: “We do it by maximum use of automation — particularly in handling ammunition and ordnance.”

The handling of bombs, bullets and missiles for the aircraft from the storage bays five decks below the hangars is all done by machinery.

Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship the Prince of Wales are currently budgeted at £6.2 billion to build.

The QE will be able to fly 36 F35 strike aircraft and house Apache attack helicopters.

However, the new design has put paid to one of the quainter traditions of British aircraft carriers, known as the “five-deck dash”.

“The idea is for a crewman to run naked all but an anti-flash mask on his head through five decks without being identified. You can’t do that with the complex layout here,” said one of the carrier’s crew. Some guarantee of British maritime security

The two aircraft carriers, Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales, will continue to be controversial as the Government looks at further defence cuts.

The Navy argues that they are of immense value to British foreign policy and security.

Currently costed at £6.2 billion, the whole programme is likely to cost three times that, once the 45 F35 Lightning II aircraft are purchased, and the mission systems to go with them.

They offer a wide range of choice — to do anything from flying aerial strike missions, to supporting troops on the ground, as a base for anti-pirate operations, and for disaster and humanitarian relief missions in devastated areas like the mission to help the hurricane-ravaged Philippines.

Some fear that spending on the Navy will mean cuts in the Army and particularly in recruiting and training.

But in the coming years Britain is going to depend increasingly on the sea, its resources and commerce.

A recent Nato conference in London was told that by the year 2050 more than half of Britain’s revenue will come from trade by sea — and by then half the world’s maritime commerce will be conducted across the Indian Ocean alone. The aircraft carriers offer some guarantee of British maritime security. Since fewer countries will welcome the basing of British forces and aircraft, they will be needed more than ever.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: aerospace; navair; navy; royalnavy; uk
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1 posted on 01/17/2014 9:27:24 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki
'Crew members are shortly to be given a special app for their mobile phones to help them navigate around the ship. '

Golly, what could go wrong. Malware on a battleship, sounds fun.

2 posted on 01/17/2014 9:33:23 PM PST by Theoria (End Socialism : No more GOP and Dem candidates)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
"...Crew members are shortly to be given a special app for their mobile phones to help them navigate around the ship..."











3 posted on 01/17/2014 9:33:52 PM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel
100%!!!
4 posted on 01/17/2014 9:37:35 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Running naked through the ship?

Highly irregular, old chap!


5 posted on 01/17/2014 9:37:48 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Brits get back to big deck carriers.


6 posted on 01/17/2014 9:39:33 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: sukhoi-30mki

LOL. It’s less then 2/3rds the size of a US CVN. How do our sailors manage without an app?


7 posted on 01/17/2014 9:41:05 PM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) is nearly twice as big, displacement-wise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford_(CVN-78)


8 posted on 01/17/2014 9:43:19 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

9 posted on 01/17/2014 9:46:03 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: Red Steel

10 posted on 01/17/2014 9:51:12 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Interesting image.


11 posted on 01/17/2014 10:01:37 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We’ll have to help them eventually...


12 posted on 01/17/2014 10:01:44 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Chode

I am embarrassed for the Brits.


13 posted on 01/17/2014 10:25:09 PM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Interesting link to the Soviet super carrier that was scrapped at 20% completion in the nineties. The design may be the basis for future Chinese carriers.

http://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpress.com/tag/nuclear-aircraft-carrier/


14 posted on 01/17/2014 10:26:18 PM PST by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Awwwwww...look at the cute little boat.

Whats it gonna be when it grows up?

15 posted on 01/17/2014 11:06:37 PM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: mountn man

“Whats it gonna be when it grows up?”

Reef?


16 posted on 01/18/2014 12:25:49 AM PST by BigCinBigD (...Was that okay?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Two superstructures.  Two superstructures.

But I repeat myself.
17 posted on 01/18/2014 12:38:06 AM PST by 867V309 (I love potatoes-except, of course, Lena Dunham)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Maybe I’m missing something here, but doesn’t the lack of an angled flight deck mean that the carrier can’t simultaneously launch and land aircraft?


18 posted on 01/18/2014 12:38:24 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Thanks to you, sukhoi-30mki, for all of your postings about military matters.

As an 18 y/o, I was assigned to the USS FDR (CVA-42) in the V-2 Catapults Div. The ship (sister to the Midway and Coral Sea) was over 900 ft. It was designed for a crew of around 3800-4000, but with our air squadrons onboard we were over 5000. ..........The Brits intend to run a similarly sized carrier with only about 700 crew???

I know it was a WW II carrier that was operating in the early ‘60s with a high efficiency rating, and yes we carried nukes.

I joined the ship when in the shipyard for updating, so learned my way around the ship pretty quickly. I can’t even wrap my head around the idea that the Brits think they have to provide cell phone apps to help the twits find their way around their own ship!!!!


19 posted on 01/18/2014 12:43:10 AM PST by octex
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To: 867V309

One’s for driving the ship, and one’s for handling all the aircraft, so neither team steps on the others’ toes (which is apparently a problem on single-tower ships).


20 posted on 01/18/2014 1:09:51 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Little Pig

American Carriers have a Bridge for air ops, a Navigation Bridge, and IIRC a Flag Bridge since an Admiral is onboard, all on the same island but stacked. I’m just guessing but I’d bet there is a land transportation bridge or bridges clearence issue going into and out of port and that’s their workaround for it perhaps.


21 posted on 01/18/2014 2:54:43 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
It would be neat to see a similar chart of past ships, including WW2 participants like Hornet and Akagi.
22 posted on 01/18/2014 2:54:48 AM PST by ExGeeEye (The enemy's gate is down...and to the left.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
However, the new design has put paid to one of the quainter traditions of British aircraft carriers, known as the “five-deck dash”. “The idea is for a crewman to run naked all but an anti-flash mask on his head through five decks without being identified. You can’t do that with the complex layout here,” said one of the carrier’s crew. Some guarantee of British maritime security

Is that anything like being inport & the Fire Pump Rover or AC&R Rover Watch Mooning The Chief Of The Watch in DC Central from the cameras in the Shaft Alleys? LOL

23 posted on 01/18/2014 3:01:07 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: Gene Eric

Nice to see England still has a deep water navy. I am waiting for Germany to Launch a carrier.


24 posted on 01/18/2014 3:01:18 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: cva66snipe

No, I read about it. They deliberately split the two, so the Air Boss and his guys wouldn’t be constantly tripping over the navigation bridge crew, and vice versa, in the ladderwells, and also because it’s a lot easier to oversee aircraft recovery operations from the new aft position, where before they had to struggle to see the wire-trap situation. The new more forward position of the navigation bridge also means a better field of view for those guys, who no longer have so much deck to look past to see where they’re going.


25 posted on 01/18/2014 3:03:27 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

>>>Crew members are shortly to be given a special app for their mobile phones to help them navigate around the ship.

Walking through the ship recently on a clear winter’s day was like walking through the giant set of a sci-fi movie. Cables and wires of all kinds seem to stretch for miles. In all, 12,500 miles of fibre-optic cable will be installed and 18,750 miles of copper wiring. The flight deck space is more than three football pitches .<<<

LOL. I really hope it works better than Jag and Range electronics:)


26 posted on 01/18/2014 3:11:59 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

Hehe, what a nightmare: a Carrier with electricals by Lucas.


27 posted on 01/18/2014 3:15:08 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: octex
As an 18 y/o, I was assigned to the USS FDR (CVA-42) in the V-2 Catapults Div. The ship (sister to the Midway and Coral Sea) was over 900 ft. It was designed for a crew of around 3800-4000, but with our air squadrons onboard we were over 5000. ..........The Brits intend to run a similarly sized carrier with only about 700 crew???

I joined the ship when in the shipyard for updating, so learned my way around the ship pretty quickly. I can’t even wrap my head around the idea that the Brits think they have to provide cell phone apps to help the twits find their way around their own ship!!!!


My recollection is that the Midways were the hardest of the US carriers to learn how to get around inside of. Built from the lessons of lost carriers early in WWII, they were built with offset compartmentalization - there were no long starboard and port passage ways running the length of the ship.

In looking at the QEs and their ships-companies of <700, I really have to wonder how they plan to do effective damage control if the ship takes a hit, something that takes a lot of bodies.
28 posted on 01/18/2014 3:21:05 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: Little Pig

Thanks for the info. We didn’t have an issue that much with ladder traffic on the island. I was a Snipe but I made lots of trips up to the Bridges and even the top of the Island to check on cooling issues. The Old Man and Flag didn’t have to worry about ladder traffic they shared an elevator and I’m serious on that one.


29 posted on 01/18/2014 3:29:17 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe

I believe you on the elevator. I wasn’t Navy (almost, though), but even in the Clancy novels, flag quarters were described as being lifted wholesale from some Arlington mansion, save only for the rat’s nest of haze-grey plumbing on the ceiling.


30 posted on 01/18/2014 3:34:00 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: tanknetter
In looking at the QEs and their ships-companies of <700, I really have to wonder how they plan to do effective damage control if the ship takes a hit, something that takes a lot of bodies.

Yea automated or not I think that idea will come back to haunt them. You have to plan for mass causalities of both crew and equipment. 600 - 700 hundred IIRC was about the size of our Engineering Department.

31 posted on 01/18/2014 3:37:35 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: ExGeeEye
Japanese A/C carriers of WWII Link


32 posted on 01/18/2014 3:49:11 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Little Pig
I'm trying to remember but it's been over 30 years. I think the Captain had two cabins or staterooms one was much closer to the Bridge. I had trouble calls to them.

My last year on the ship we were in a drydock overhaul. I got to go through all the spaces from walking underneath it to going through a Broiler and looking up from the base of the stack. I was in Fire Department for about six months and all spaces including the magazines at that time were all non secured spaces. The yards is the best place to learn about a ship and how things are laid out equipment wise. It saves a lot of guess work later at sea.

When I got to my ship in early January 1977 she was in the yards going through a three month repair period and I had a month or two to learn my way around even though I was assigned to Mess Cooking {KP} for the first three months. When I got out in October 1980 I left the old gal right where I found her LOL. Same pier in the yards.

33 posted on 01/18/2014 4:06:51 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe

From what I’ve read, the air-crew and support staff add another 1,000 to the size of the crew. My guess is that if the carrier took a hit and air operations were disabled, these people would probably be free to help with damage control etc.


34 posted on 01/18/2014 4:28:49 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
From what I’ve read, the air-crew and support staff add another 1,000 to the size of the crew. My guess is that if the carrier took a hit and air operations were disabled, these people would probably be free to help with damage control etc.

Still, you're talking about 1700 total crew aboard. Yes, I know that the philosophy of both the RN and the USN is that EVERYONE does DC, but keep in mind that Yorktown (CV-5), which was a little less than half the QEs' displacement, was lost at Midway with about 2100 crew. Hornet (CV-8), a modified Yorktown, was lost at Santa Cruz with about 3000 crew.

The truth is that, like with handguns and parachutes, if you don't have enough crew to do DC when you NEED to do DC, chances are you'll never have to worry about having enough crew again ...
35 posted on 01/18/2014 4:38:18 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: sukhoi-30mki; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; shove_it; TrueKnightGalahad; ...
Re: Crew members are shortly to be given a special app for their mobile phones to help them navigate around the ship.

Considering the crop of idiots we have spawn since the 1960s and the way the Liberal have changed the education system during that time frame... are we surprised when ever cashier we come up to has to look at the printout to know how much change to give you?

36 posted on 01/18/2014 5:44:06 AM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: Bender2
No squid should be without the app
37 posted on 01/18/2014 6:23:33 AM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" ~ Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: BigCinBigD

LOL!


38 posted on 01/18/2014 6:24:07 AM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: rlmorel
That was pretty good.

5.56mm

39 posted on 01/18/2014 6:28:10 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: big'ol_freeper

Hahahahahaha!

Beware of greeks wearing sneakers! (greek sailors, that is)

That thing would show them coming up behind you!


40 posted on 01/18/2014 6:36:08 AM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: Little Pig

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

As a former MG owner, I CONCUR!


41 posted on 01/18/2014 6:37:06 AM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: M Kehoe

Sigh. There is something so completely wrong with that concept.

I am sure it just me being old and crotchety.

Of course, that would prevent any of their sailors walking down into the brig unintentionally while exploring as I did...


42 posted on 01/18/2014 6:38:58 AM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel
if they can't figure out painted deck and frame numbers, will they walk right off the ship if their app tells them to "turn right here" ???
43 posted on 01/18/2014 6:40:12 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: rlmorel
There is something so completely wrong with that concept.

Yep, like when somebody loads some malware.

5.56mm

44 posted on 01/18/2014 6:51:35 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: tanknetter

Well said, my friend..I was shocked when I read the expected crew size. MY first thought was damage control..who’s gonna do it..also..the CVs of WW II did not face the ship-killing missiles of today..


45 posted on 01/18/2014 7:21:43 AM PST by ken5050 (This space available cheap...)
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To: M Kehoe; Chode

I can see it now...they call General Quarters, and out come the iPhones...


46 posted on 01/18/2014 7:57:36 AM PST by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
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To: rlmorel
LOLOLOL!!!!! sh!t, glad i wasn't drinking my coffee when i read that one...
47 posted on 01/18/2014 8:10:27 AM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: cva66snipe; ken5050

Part of the idea is not to get hit - that in most of the situations in which these carriers are likely to be used, that they are unlikely to be attacked by a force that can damage them.

But, yes, if they are hit, damage control is an issue because of the crew numbers - the carriers will not be as likely to survive in such a situation as US carriers would be.

But what people have to remember, is that if the RN insisted on crew levels like those of the USN, the British Government would not have funded the carriers. It’s a political reality. The bottom line is the Royal Navy is more powerful with these carriers than without them - and to get them they had to be willing to come up with a way to have them with less people.

It’s better to have some capability in reality than to hold out for a theoretically better solution you’ll never get.

These Carriers don’t match US standards - but they are at least in the same ballpark again, for the first time in decades and should match anybody else in the world. As the UK is unlikely to find itself at war with the US, that’s not bad.


48 posted on 01/18/2014 5:38:31 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Nice to see Australia getting back on such a list.


49 posted on 01/18/2014 5:39:37 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: naturalman1975
Post WW2 the worst carrier incidents of mass causality were Flightdeck fires. True there are Hi-Caps now but some aircraft due to magnesium must be tossed over. One carrier fire I can't remember which flooded all the way down to the pump room. I'm thinking maybe #1 PR. That is 6 decks down from the hanger bay. Automation is fine when it works. I've seen the ship loose steering several times. Thankfully there was enough manpower for a steering room watch to be in the machinery room. Also even though AVORD may be automated I doubt the actual loading onto the plane is.

Another factor is ships company is always better trained at DC because they live there even in port back in CONUS. Getting DC quals done properly takes some time. Carriers are highly Air Conditioning dependent. On a carrier the AC&R shop alone would need 12 minimal to function. Without it you might as well not get underway because the electronics are going to go down. Nothing beats a well trained Roving watch to keep things going smooth. Rover has senses cameras do not.

The UK right now will be the U.S. condition in a couple more decades staying on the current political and military policy course.

50 posted on 01/18/2014 6:07:37 PM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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