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Can a gun protect India's women from rape and violence?
The Guardian ^ | January 19, 2014 | Jon Henley

Posted on 01/20/2014 1:26:40 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Named after the 23-year-old who was raped and killed in Delhi in 2012, the Nirbheek pistol has been designed for women. But it has drawn fierce criticism from women's groups and anti-gun campaigners.

The Nirbheek gun designed for women: comes in a bejewelled maroon case.

It weighs barely 500g, is slim enough to slip into a purse, features an attractive darkwood handle on a black titanium-alloy body and comes in a bejewelled maroon case. Engraved on its barrel is the name Nirbheek: Hindi for fearless, and a synonym for Nirbhaya, the name given to the unnamed 23-year-old Delhi woman whose torture, gang rape and, ultimately, death at the hands of six men in December 2012 sparked national and international outrage.

The launch by India's state-run Indian Ordnance Factory of what is billed as the country's first handgun for women, and named after the victim of such a horrific murder, has drawn fierce criticism from women's groups and anti-gun campaigners who say it is an admission of state failure and an insult to Nirbhaya's memory. But Abdul Hameed, the factory owner, told the BBC the gun would increase women's confidence and deter attackers: "We believe that women who carry this gun will feel fearless," he said.

Despite tough new laws against rape, a greater police presence and the launch of dedicated women's helplines in several cities, shocking attacks on women – such as last week's gang rape of a 51-year-old Danish tourist in New Delhi – remain commonplace in India: general violence and homicides using guns may be falling, but levels of reported sexual crimes have increased significantly in recent years. Figures from the National Crime Records Bureau suggest one rape is committed every 22 minutes....

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; india; nirbheek; women
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Behold: The real war on women.
1 posted on 01/20/2014 1:26:40 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

.22 LR caliber?


2 posted on 01/20/2014 1:29:25 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Looks like a break-top webley circa 1900’s. But,if it works why not?

CC


3 posted on 01/20/2014 1:31:04 PM PST by Celtic Conservative (tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

start handing them out and see how it goes.

I predict they will need to issue “tags” as the women take ferals on and leave them as a carrion for the buzzards...


4 posted on 01/20/2014 1:31:58 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

But it has drawn fierce criticism from women’s groups

///////////////////////
Why on earth fierce criticism from this source? (We wouldn’t want any women to be able to defend themselves, now would we? /sarc)

Sounds similar to the idiocy we see manifested by liberal “women’s groups” in this country.


5 posted on 01/20/2014 1:32:32 PM PST by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting twowards Mecca five times daily).)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Can a gun protect India's women from rape and violence?"

Maybe and maybe not. But I suggest an experiment. Let every woman in India who wants to, carry a concealed pistol. Do a 20 year study and at the end of the 20 years, see if rape statistics have declined dramatically.

6 posted on 01/20/2014 1:33:18 PM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A "gun for women" sends entirely the wrong message, women's rights activist Ruchira Gupta told CNN. "Nirbhaya was a victim of violence caused by a desire of six men to project their masculinity through domination," she said. "Ultimately, we have to challenge the culture of domination and violence through nonviolence, not through introducing more tools of violence."

Translation: "I am a communist and I seek to culturally transform the nation and disarm the sheeple so that a totalitarian regime can be put in place, and people like myself can rule over serfs like you."

7 posted on 01/20/2014 1:33:38 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Anti-Complacency League! Baby!)
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To: Secret Agent Man
.22 LR caliber?

.32
8 posted on 01/20/2014 1:34:40 PM PST by caveat emptor (!)
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To: Secret Agent Man
.22 LR caliber?

The real issue is to create a gun that women in poverty can afford, and .22 is cheap to build a pistol for. It might not produce a one-shot kill, but nobody wants to take a .22 bullet for the fun of it.

9 posted on 01/20/2014 1:34:42 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

lots of people have died from .22 LR rounds. I believe many underestimate the danger of the .22 LR round. Espeicially from a rifled long gun barrel.


10 posted on 01/20/2014 1:37:08 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: PapaBear3625
The real issue is to create a gun that women in poverty can afford, and .22 is cheap to build a pistol for.

You're right, and evidently they were wrong. I searched and found one article stating it is .32 cal.
11 posted on 01/20/2014 1:38:35 PM PST by caveat emptor (!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Former Brit subjects neatly scale down a Webley.

I did not get the caliber? Anyone?


12 posted on 01/20/2014 1:39:01 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Can a gun protect India's women from rape and violence?

No. They need one each.
At least those who wish to carry, the others will enjoy the effects of indirect protection.

13 posted on 01/20/2014 1:39:13 PM PST by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: PapaBear3625

That is the real problem with the weapon. The article says the gun costs 1200 BP ($2000USD) which is roughly what the average Indian makes in a year. Sounds like Rossi and Taurus need to start shipping 6 shooters to India.


14 posted on 01/20/2014 1:39:22 PM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Lots of folks on gun boards have been ridiculing the design and cost of the Nirbheek pistol even though they agree with the motion behind it's intent.

Indians are limited to what firearms they're allowed to have -- and I remain surprised they're allowed to have any at all -- but this Nirbheek pistol only seems like it would need a little work in melting and debobbing to make it a more comfortable CCW pistol.

15 posted on 01/20/2014 1:40:13 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: Secret Agent Man

I have a friend who almost died from a .22LR. As it happened, he did lose his lower leg.


16 posted on 01/20/2014 1:41:00 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: PapaBear3625; Secret Agent Man

I agree with SAM. If you were to get shot in the upper left portion of the body with a .45 you might survive. But if you get shot in the same spot by a .22, it might spin around inside you and puncture several vital organs before it stops.


17 posted on 01/20/2014 1:41:05 PM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: ClearCase_guy

“Challenging the culture of domination and violence through nonviolence” is all very nice, but when you’re in imminent danger it’s much quicker to just shoot the SOB.


18 posted on 01/20/2014 1:41:07 PM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I'm not anti-government, government's anti-me.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

The great colonel Askins once said that if .22 rimfires could just about make mexican deer extinct(some question as to the veracity of that)then it’s powerful enough to kill a man. Melon shots would work nicely.


19 posted on 01/20/2014 1:42:13 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero
IOF (India Ordnance Factory) makes '32-Bore' civilian revolvers chambered in .32 S&W Long.

Not a completely terrible caliber, aside from that it's from 1896.

20 posted on 01/20/2014 1:43:52 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: Vaquero

Someone said .32 was the caliber.


21 posted on 01/20/2014 1:45:03 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I love the look and feel of handguns, but this is one ugly piece of machinery. I'd rather have a Ruger LCP anyday.


22 posted on 01/20/2014 1:45:10 PM PST by RoosterRedux (The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing -- Socrates)
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To: Vaquero

Most professional assassins and hit men (government, mafia, gang, shadow organizations, etc.) use .22 LR almost exclusively, usually with a silencer of some kind.


23 posted on 01/20/2014 1:47:11 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: RoosterRedux

Ugly but workable .. but not at the price quoted ... If it is double action they need to lose the hammer spur and smooth all the corners... I agree with revolvers for newbies though ... .22 or .32 works and keeps the weight down.

If the quoted price is accurate someone needs to go into the pepper spray and taser business over there...


24 posted on 01/20/2014 1:53:47 PM PST by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

For that price, they could buy a 3d printer, print out multiple liberator pistols (by defense distributed). Then sell them for much lower price to the women.

A group of Israeli reporters tested the gun with 9 mm (34,000 psi) so a .45 ACP or .380 ACP should work as well.


25 posted on 01/20/2014 2:03:56 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It won’t unless she aims and pulls the trigger.


26 posted on 01/20/2014 2:05:30 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: RightOnTheBorder
That is the real problem with the weapon. The article says the gun costs 1200 BP ($2000USD) which is roughly what the average Indian makes in a year. Sounds like Rossi and Taurus need to start shipping 6 shooters to India.

That's just nuts. A S&W LadySmith is just $470 at Cabela's. You can get a Taurus .380 for $230. They are marketing a low-quality-looking gun at premium prices. A bunch of people must be taking huge kickbacks.

27 posted on 01/20/2014 2:11:52 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Note that the woman activist who opposes this gun does so because she wants to remake society to destroy its macho nature. A few thousand dead or wounded would-be rapists would be a good start to that remaiking.


28 posted on 01/20/2014 2:12:01 PM PST by rcofdayton (.)
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To: rcofdayton

I’m betting she lives in a guarded building, works in a secure office and might even have a bodyguard.


29 posted on 01/20/2014 2:14:50 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Except that probably most of the radical deconstructionists known as feminists are conditioned by their “critical theory” education to actually believe that “hormonal inequality” really is the source of most human violence and unfair oppression.

Put the common threads together. They are: deconstructing football because it glorifies that hormonal inequality (same with the military), deconstructing heterosexual marriage because it perpetuates differentiated sex roles, deconstructing reproduction itself via “abortion rights” because women should have the same pleasure-to-consequences ratio as men. It’s only “fair.” Etc.

So at bottom, it’s a multifaceted deployment of the core Marxist credo of equality of outcomes in as many dimensions as possible. A society with no contrast, no color, no life. Peaceful? Maybe. Peaceful as the grave.


30 posted on 01/20/2014 2:16:42 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: PapaBear3625

Brand new Hi-Point C9 9mm semi-automatic w/lifetime transferable warranty, $145 all day long.


31 posted on 01/20/2014 2:17:01 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Needs to be a .30 caliber or larger.


32 posted on 01/20/2014 2:18:10 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd

They’re saying it’s a .32 caliber revolver.


33 posted on 01/20/2014 2:18:54 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Figures from the National Crime Records Bureau suggest one rape is committed every 22 minutes.

365 days a year x 24 hours a day x 60 minutes per hour / 22 minutes = 23,891 rapes per year. I call BS. The US, with 1/4 the population, has 84,000 rapes per year. I suspect most rapes (90+%) in India don't get reported for the usual honor-related reasons.

34 posted on 01/20/2014 2:37:44 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

.32 S & W Long


35 posted on 01/20/2014 2:41:06 PM PST by njslim (actice)
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To: The KG9 Kid

Yeah, it appears to be .32 S&W Long aka 7.65X23

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/3.htm


36 posted on 01/20/2014 2:41:54 PM PST by ltc8k6
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To: man_in_tx

I know a few women who associate themselves with the “women’s group” movement thinking. They may be women by age, but mentally they act and think like children. They demand “equal rights” but refuse to do things they think men “should” do. Essentially, they want to be treated like a perpetual victim.


37 posted on 01/20/2014 2:41:56 PM PST by matt04
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To: Celtic Conservative

India has ridiculous gun laws. (Story changed a little bit but close enough, to protect the family) I have an Indian friend who was high up on the political scale who had a neighbor family that had murdered his associates and threatened him. He was one of the few in the country that qualified for a pistol permit. He went through years of processes and finally was approved for a .32 caliber wheel gun that cost nearly $3000. He is only allowed a certain number of bullets and each bullet and casing must be accounted for by a police chief miles and miles away. He was only allowed to carry in certain areas as long as he reported to each region when he was there. In other words, after spending thousands to protect himself, his property, and his family it was still next to impossible and ended up being cheaper to hire a full time Sikh guard with an ancient 303 enfield.

When he visited in the USA I took him out to the shooting range and showed him an arsenal of guns available just in our neighborhood gun store and local gun club. He was amazed.

The pistol looked no more modern that the 1900 Webleys.


38 posted on 01/20/2014 2:44:04 PM PST by Organic Panic
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Rapist Rights crowd realizes its hard to rape with a bullet in the brain.

Everyone should have the right to defend oneself


39 posted on 01/20/2014 2:48:11 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Amnesty And Not Ending ObamaCare Will Kill GOP In 2014)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Ultimately, we have to challenge the culture of domination and violence through nonviolence, not through introducing more tools of violence."

Can anyone name me one time where this has worked against violence?

And if anyone brings up Ghandi I am going to slap them and then point out he died from being shot so "nonviolence" didn't work very well in his case now did it.

40 posted on 01/20/2014 2:54:49 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

so - instead of getting stoned to death because they got raped, they’ll have their heads cut off for ‘murder” -

Yeah. That’ll solve it


41 posted on 01/20/2014 3:18:20 PM PST by maine-iac7 (Christian is as Christian does - by their fruits)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Slap away! ;-)

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Gandhi

42 posted on 01/20/2014 3:20:27 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Even the article points out that guns are tools of the wealthy in India. For this reason, poor women should carry bladed weapons. If they cannot afford a knife, then a sharpened piece of metal or even broken glass.

Just as importantly, they must be willing to use it without hesitation to slash or stab an attacker.


43 posted on 01/20/2014 3:24:10 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (WoT News: Rantburg.com)
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To: TigersEye
Yeah he tended to change his tune when it was his people.

Everyone else on the other hand was suppose to just lie down and die.

44 posted on 01/20/2014 3:25:37 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Whose people did he have face British troops unarmed?


45 posted on 01/20/2014 3:27:10 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: taxcontrol

I had a friend who died from a .22 pistol shot to the chest/stomach.


46 posted on 01/20/2014 3:27:33 PM PST by FreeInWV (Have you had enough change yet?)
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To: TigersEye
British?

Nah, facing British troops unarmed was relatively safe.

Mr. Nonviolence wanted (non-Indian) people to face NAZI troops unarmed. And preached at them about how much better off they were being slaughtered then to attempt to resist.

47 posted on 01/20/2014 3:33:11 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Mr. Nonviolence wanted (non-Indian) people to face NAZI troops unarmed.

Which has nothing to do with Indian women defending themselves from rape.

48 posted on 01/20/2014 3:55:44 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Beretta Tomcat...problem solved.


49 posted on 01/20/2014 4:13:35 PM PST by MSF BU (n)
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To: Vaquero
A Webley is about what I should expect from the same wonderful people who recreated the Enfield motorcycle.

The various spurs, exhaust pipes, antennae, lumps, bumps, and slumps should make this wonderful piece a pure delight to pull outa your sari in a hurry. The front sight alone should occasion many a visit to the trauma center, or dress maker at the very least.

I suggest that the makers of this Webley clone sell it with a webbing belt, canvas holster, Sam Browne Belt, and a lanyard attached to a ring on the butt and looped about the neck. Also, every young lady who goes in harms way should carry at least five of those half-moon loader things, for quicker re-loading in tight situations.

Newsflash, fellow cricketeers: Handgun design has advanced somewhat since 1887 when the Webley was designed. Back to the drawing board. Or maybe a catalog from Biretta, Rossi, Taurus, Glock, or even George Zimmerman's fave, the trusty Keltec!

50 posted on 01/20/2014 5:01:20 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (This GOP is dead. What do we do now?)
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