House GOP number three: How about legalization without citizenship for illegals?

Hot Air ^ | January 22, 2014 | Allahpundit

[2ndDivisionVet]

A nice example of what I said last week about Republicans forging their immigration policy based not on what works but on what they think they can sell. Legalization without citizenship is, as DrewM says, arguably the worst possible outcome policy-wise. It rewards illegals by letting them stay in the U.S. indefinitely, creating an incentive for future illegals to cross the border, but then tries to punish them by relegating them to a status of uncertainty. Will they ever be allowed to apply for citizenship or will they be stuck forever as second-class quasi-citizens? No one knows. And no one in the GOP leadership really cares. They like this dopey idea because they think they can sell it to both sides. To conservatives, they can crow that they held the line and refused to create a special path to citizenship like Rubio and the Gang of Eight did. To amnesty shills, they can crow that they’ve given illegals a legal foothold to stay and work here in the U.S., with citizenship through some process inevitable in the fullness of time. The goal isn’t to produce smart policy or to solve the problem of illegal immigration. The goal is to kinda sorta placate the conservative base whose votes they need while wooing the left-leaning Latinos whose votes they want.

And the punchline, of course, is that it’ll make no one happy. Conservative media will paint this, correctly, as a sellout and pro-amnesty groups will begin agitating for full citizenship within minutes after a legalization bill passes. McCarthy himself, I assume, knows that it’s garbage as policy but feels he has no choice but to push it because he comes from a California district with a significant Latino population.

McCarthy stated his personal view on the contentious issue in an interview with KBAK/KBFX Eyewitness News in his hometown of Bakersfield, Calif. He signaled that the call for a provisional legal status would be included in the immigration reform principles House Republican leaders are soon to release.

“The principles aren’t written yet, but in my personal belief, I think it’ll go with legal status that will allow you to work and pay taxes,” McCarthy said.

McCarthy made clear he did not favor carving out a new path to citizenship for the estimated 11 million people in the country illegally. But his position appears to comport with the views of other senior Republicans who have called for illegal immigrants to have access to the existing route to citizenship once they receive an initial legal status and fulfill other requirements…

Immigration advocates have targeted McCarthy, whose district includes a large Hispanic population.

“[I]t is unclear whether Democrats would back such a compromise,” says the Hill. I don’t think it’s that unclear. Easy solution: The GOP could create a path to citizenship for DREAMers, which they seem inclined to do anyway, and offer that to Democrats in return for legalization without citizenship for adult illegals. Democrats will happily take that half-loaf. They want a deal so that they can show their Latino base that they finally delivered on immigration, but they also don’t want to lose their ability to demagogue Republicans as racist. Legalization without citizenship — i.e. “Jim Crow for illegals,” as the new lefty talking point will describe it — plus a DREAM amnesty allows them to do both. They’d be nuts to turn it down. As long as they don’t have to wait until border security has been measurably improved before legalization takes effect, they’ve got 90 percent of what they wanted from this process.

By the way, remember when Jeb Bush endorsed this idea too? It’s still bizarre to me that the great establishment hope, who’s supposed to be the GOP’s last, best chance to woo Latinos, would back a plan that’ll soon be compared by Democrats everywhere to segregation, but I guess he needed a gimmick to distinguish himself from Rubio after Rubio took the lead on comprehensive reform in the Senate. I’m curious to see if Bush sticks with it now that Rubio and his other presumptive centrist rival Chris Christie are fading.

Exit question: If Congress doesn’t pass some sort of reform before the midterms, Obama’s going to do it with via his presidential super powers, right?

[Eagles6]

Gutless.

[Secret Agent Man]

how about we actually grow some balls and enforce our immigration laws with the same fervor mexico enforces theirs on their southern border?

[Secret Agent Man]

this is what mexico does.

[Norm Lenhart]

Oh that’s easy. Because the Chamber of Commerce and PACs who funds the GOP says no. Well, that and they KNOW can rely on a significant portion of their base to vote for them no matter what they do.

Of course that portion of the base should have it’s ‘feet held to the fire’ about their assistance in destroying America (as they claimed they would do with Romney and GOP libs...but don’t). and the other half of the base doesn’t want to question the conservatism of their online and real life buddies.

[wku man]

No Way Jose (No Se Puede!) by 10 Pound Test

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[Tennessee Nana]

Camel-meet-AMNESTY PING

[Nextrush]

The GOPe can do it after the election in a lame duck session with Boehner leading the charge. Amnesty coming just before Christmas this year.

[ballplayer]

What makes them think the democrats will agree to this?
They will agree as far as it gets the bill passed,then the campaign begins immediately to get the Mexicaas citizenship because it is UNFAIR they are doing the dirty work we won’t do and for what? It is inhuman,they must be allowed to all benefits including citizenship! Guess what the Republicans will do then?Another scam

[Free Vulcan]

The MOST I’d ever capitulate on immigration is allow companies to sponsor workers for as long as they needed them and give those a work visa. If you are already here illegally and get sponsored, well then lucky you and no questions asked.

In return for that, no welfare, no criminal record, and you get in line for citizenship behind everyone else. If the job is over you got 90 days to get sponsored again or you are out the door.

That would also require shutting off welfare to all illegals, and immediate deportation for criminality. We also need to clean up the bureaucracy to becoming a citizen, but that’s another issue entirely.

[kabar]

The MOST I’d ever capitulate on immigration is allow companies to sponsor workers for as long as they needed them and give those a work visa. If you are already here illegally and get sponsored, well then lucky you and no questions asked.

We have 20 million underemployed or unemployed Americans. Why give employers the ability to import as many foreign workers as they want/need? This will mean lost jobs for Americans and depressed wages for others.

We already take in 1.2 million LEGAL PERMANENT IMMIGRANTS A YEAR. Do we really want to add on top of that unlimited temporary work visas?

And why should people who are here illegally be given work visas? What about the more than 4 million intending immigrants overseas who have applied legally to enter this country and are awaiting their turn? Where is the fairness and the adherence to the Rule of Law?

That would also require shutting off welfare to all illegals, and immediate deportation for criminality. We also need to clean up the bureaucracy to becoming a citizen, but that’s another issue entirely.

It is already illegal for illegal aliens to receive federal welfare. The illegals get benefits thru their American born children. 300,000 to 400,000 anchor babies are born annually in the US to illegal alien parents. That amounts to one in 10 births in this country. The costs of the births are paid by Medicaid and the children are entitled to all benefits that American citizen confers including food stamps, Medicaid, housing assistance, etc.

And legal immigrants use more welfare services than the native born.

[Pelham]

More nasty little treason from the idiots in the GOP.

Just enforce the damned law as it is!

[Free Vulcan]

As I said, most. The Dems would have to give up the farm to get it too, and I’d still find a way to twist it around to make it consequentially bite them over and over.

Any decent Republican candidate for Congress should be able to rip the Democrat amnesty schtick to shreds, nor are they going to lose on shutting down welfare to illegals and legals, which the courts have long ruled they can get.

[dalereed]

No damn way!!

Eliminate welfare and enforce existing laws against employers and the illegals will self deport and there won’t be any “jobs that americans won’t do”!!!

[kabar]

As I said, most. The Dems would have to give up the farm to get it too, and I’d still find a way to twist it around to make it consequentially bite them over and over.

Give up what farm? Be specific.

Any decent Republican candidate for Congress should be able to rip the Democrat amnesty schtick to shreds, nor are they going to lose on shutting down welfare to illegals and legals, which the courts have long ruled they can get.

Generally, illegal aliens are not allowed to collect federal welfare benefits. SCOTUS has ruled that hospitals must treat all patients who come to the ER, even if they are illegal aliens. They have also ruled that illegal alien children can attend school, K-12. Illegals get federal benefits thru their American born children who are citizens thru birthright citizenship.

[Free Vulcan]

The first thing is that the immigration system would have to be based off work and the needs of business. Those that own businesses in foreign countries would be given higher priority, particularly if they were looking to relocate the business or expand here.

Otherwise you would have to be sponsored, and to be sponsored would require that business advertising the position, with full disclosure, be unable to fill it after a certain period of time. Just having certain skills wouldn’t be enough, someone would have to reach out to you for you to come here. Those that lose sponsorship would have to go home.

There would be no welfare of any kind, no criminal record in the home country, no convictions here. No licenses or any other ID for illegals, and voter ID at the polls. After a few years of sponsorship or ownership you could apply for a more permanent visa, and so on.

If the Dems agree to all that, I MIGHT agree to let illegals already in the country to get in on sponsorship, if there were no strings attached.

I’m sure I could pile on other stuff that is needed beyond that which I’m not thinking of.

[kabar]

The first thing is that the immigration system would have to be based off work and the needs of business. Those that own businesses in foreign countries would be given higher priority, particularly if they were looking to relocate the business or expand here.

An immigration system needs to serve our national interests, not just business. We have 20 million Americans unemployed or underemployed. How many additional foreign workers do we need? The decade ending in 2010 was the largest in terms of the number of immigrants in our history surpassing the previous biggest decade ending in 2000. During the decade ending in 2010 we had a net loss of 400,000 jobs yet we brought in 13.9 million legal permanent immigrants.

And who is getting the jobs? Immigrants are getting the jobs while the native born don't. Comparing the number of immigrants working (ages 16 to 65) in the first quarter of 2000 to the number working in the first quarter of 2013 shows an increase of 5.3 million. In contrast, the number of working-age (16 to 65) natives holding a job was 1.3 million fewer in the first quarter 2013 than in 2000, even though the number of working-age natives overall increased by 16.8 million in this time period.

Otherwise you would have to be sponsored, and to be sponsored would require that business advertising the position, with full disclosure, be unable to fill it after a certain period of time. Just having certain skills wouldn’t be enough, someone would have to reach out to you for you to come here. Those that lose sponsorship would have to go home.

We already have H-1B visas that are meant for that purpose. What happens if the person switches jobs? Who will make them go home? 40% of the illegal aliens in this country came here legally and overstayed their visas.

There would be no welfare of any kind, no criminal record in the home country, no convictions here. No licenses or any other ID for illegals, and voter ID at the polls. After a few years of sponsorship or ownership you could apply for a more permanent visa, and so on.

Would their families by allowed to accompany them? What about their American born children who are US citizens by birth? How do you prevent the children from receiving Medicaid, food stamps, etc.? By law illegal aliens cannot receive federal welfare benefits.

H-1B visa holders can be sponsored by their employers after six years to receive a green card. We have millions here already on temporary work visas. The Gang of 8 bill doubles the numbers.

This bill would roughly double the number of temporary workers admitted each year (nearly 700,000 in 2012). These workers are classified as "non-immigrants" and would be in addition to S.744's large proposed increase in annual permanent legal immigrants competing for jobs (more than 30 million in the next decade).

If the Dems agree to all that, I MIGHT agree to let illegals already in the country to get in on sponsorship, if there were no strings attached.

So how is this fair to the over 4 million intending immigrants waiting overseas for their turn to enter? They have completed all the paperwork, had physicals and background checks, and many have been waiting 5 years or longer to enter. What kind of message does this send to people contemplating entering the US illegally? Get here and you will eventually be legalized.

We had a one time amnesty in 1986. The proponents said there would never be another one. The USG estimated that 1 million would apply, but the true number turned out to be 2.7 million. The process was rife with fraud. We now have 11 to 20 million illegal aliens here. Let's try enforcement. Why do we need to reward the lawbreakers who violated numerous laws besides just entering the country illegally?

[Free Vulcan]

We already have H-1B visas that are meant for that purpose. What happens if the person switches jobs? Who will make them go home? 40% of the illegal aliens in this country came here legally and overstayed their visas.

Which makes this statement mean no sense:

So how is this fair to the over 4 million intending immigrants waiting overseas for their turn to enter? They have completed all the paperwork, had physicals and background checks, and many have been waiting 5 years or longer to enter.

Because if everyone violates their visas anyway, then we should obviously shut down the whole immigration program anyway and keep them all out. Again, you would have to be sponsored and keep sponsored, unless you own a business yourself. I completely disagree, other than not having a criminal record, it should be about business and economics except in very rare cases of asylum or some asset to nat'l security.

And be no welfare I mean no welfare. I would end anchor babies, and frown upon anyone bringing their families here unless they could provide adequate monetary support.

And again, unless you can prove that you've given native born adequate opportunity for a job, you do not get to sponsor immigrants to come work for you. That would include sponsoring someone who is already sponsored by someone else when they switch jobs.

As long as Americans get first and adequate shot, then if nobody wants to the job, how is that exactly harming unemployed Americans? That says more about the state of our welfare state more than anything. Any and all welfare needs to be tied to work.

Any illegals here would go to the back of the line for anything beyond a work visa. Get them sponsored, end the welfare, deport the criminals, secure the border, and you'd find the immigration issue would straighten out very quickly.

[kabar]

Otherwise you would have to be sponsored, and to be sponsored would require that business advertising the position, with full disclosure, be unable to fill it after a certain period of time. Just having certain skills wouldn’t be enough, someone would have to reach out to you for you to come here. Those that lose sponsorship would have to go home.

My response makes sense in response to what you wrote above. Will workers who have been sponsored by one employer be allowed to switch jobs if they can find someone else to sponsor them? Who keeps track of all of this?

In the real world, we have cases where Indians have founded companies in the US and then gone back to India to sponsor other Indians to come here. The immigrants are creating jobs for their friends and relatives abroad. I provided you with a chart showing who is getting the jobs since 2000. It is not the native born. Here is what is really happening:

No Thanks for Everything"

And again, unless you can prove that you've given native born adequate opportunity for a job, you do not get to sponsor immigrants to come work for you. That would include sponsoring someone who is already sponsored by someone else when they switch jobs.

Easier said than done. Businesses have been lying about the lack of native born labor so they can get the cheaper labor. Here is a short video showing how businesses get around the laws on H-1B visas

I completely disagree, other than not having a criminal record, it should be about business and economics except in very rare cases of asylum or some asset to nat'l security.

Are you suggesting that we should have virtually no limits on immigration save employer sponsorship? Who would do the vetting process? What kind of processing times are you looking at in terms of determining that there are no US workers available? What kind of background checks would be made along with physicals, etc.? What role would the US government play in this process?

And be no welfare I mean no welfare. I would end anchor babies, and frown upon anyone bringing their families here unless they could provide adequate monetary support.

Would they contribute to SS and Medicare? Would they be entitled to EITC? Would they be allowed to use the Obamacare exchanges to get health insurance, including subsidies if they qualify for them? Would their children be able to attend public schools, get in-state tuition for college, etc.?

As long as Americans get first and adequate shot, then if nobody wants to the job, how is that exactly harming unemployed Americans? That says more about the state of our welfare state more than anything. Any and all welfare needs to be tied to work.

I can see you are a libertarian who believes in the free flow of labor. The only problem is that these people are not units of labor. They bring with them their own culture and world view. They are willing to work for less and they are easier for the sponsoring employer to control since they can stop sponsoring them. It is an ideal solution for the employer who has an unlimited supply of cheap, exploitable labor.

Any illegals here would go to the back of the line for anything beyond a work visa. Get them sponsored, end the welfare, deport the criminals, secure the border, and you'd find the immigration issue would straighten out very quickly.

LOL. Everything you propose requires enforcement by the USG, which has proven to be incompetent in that regard. You have also added the additional requirement of monitoring employer sponsorship. This is going to require an exponential increase in personnel to enforce what you propose. And on top of that we have a President who selectively enforces the law and creates new ones thru Executive Order.

[Free Vulcan]

You are talking yourself in circles kabar. If the govt can’t enforce anything, then how exactly would you enforce the current illegal problem, if the govt is incapable of doing that very thing? By telling me there’s no solution, it would seem that it doesn’t really matter whether amnesty passes or not.

[kabar]

If the govt can’t enforce anything, then how exactly would you enforce the current illegal problem, if the govt is incapable of doing that very thing?

You certainly don't "enforce the current illegal problem" by legalizing the status of the lawbreakers. When you reward something, you get more of it.

States are filling the vacuum created by a federal government that is not enforcing our laws. AZ passed its own e-verify bill that was upheld by the Supreme Court. There are other measures the states are doing to discourage illegal aliens from coming to their states.

The laws are there, but the federal government is not enforcing them. We need to elect people who will enforce our immigration laws. If not, then the country will go down the toilet. A country without borders is no longer a country.

By telling me there’s no solution, it would seem that it doesn’t really matter whether amnesty passes or not.

Of course there is a solution, If you want real comprehensive immigration reform, here is plan:

Advocate a pro-immigrant policy of low immigration. Republicans need to provide the American people with their own comprehensive immigration reform plan, i.e., give people a reason to vote FOR something rather than just attack the other side’s proposals. Such a plan should contain the following elements:

 Formulate a merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;

 Reduce immigration levels based on need more closely approximating 300,000 a year;

 Eliminate extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family,

 Secure the border;

 Enforce existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4) fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (5) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;

 Eliminate birthright citizenship and the visa lottery program;

 Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;

 Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases;

 Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.