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Shoplifter lawsuit highlights retail dilemma
Press Democrat ^ | January 22, 2014 | Paul.Payne

Posted on 01/23/2014 12:10:47 PM PST by rey

Sometimes it’s better to just let things go.

That could be the mantra for overprotective retail clerks and loss-prevention agents everywhere following a lawsuit in Santa Rosa civil court by a would-be shoplifter who was badly injured when he was tackled by a grocery store manager.

The clash happened when plaintiff Johnny Ramirez was stealing a bottle of rum from the Windsor Raley’s, according to a tentative ruling from Sonoma County Superior Court Judge Arthur Wick.

Ramirez tucked the glass bottle into his waistband and ran out the door, only to be stopped by manager Shea Carpenter, who tackled him to the asphalt, Wick wrote.

The bottle broke when he hit the ground, causing injury that required emergency surgery. Ramirez later sued the grocery chain and the manager for monetary damages.

(Excerpt) Read more at law.blogs.pressdemocrat.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: shoplifting; theft; tort
Of course they just want to let things go, it would greatly facilitate their endeavors. And everyone of these jokers knows they can sue if they are hurt. I know someone who threw his son's fiance out of the house after she hit him in the head with a beer bottle, though he was arrested for using force.

You should have NO reasonable expectation of safety when engaging in thievery or violent crime.

There was a story not long ago that armored car operators would shoot first, if they felt threatened as bad guys are not asking for the money but shooting first. Armored comapnies feel they are acting in self defense. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/us/in-houston-armored-cars-are-doing-the-opposite-of-dissuading-robbers.html?_r=0

1 posted on 01/23/2014 12:10:47 PM PST by rey
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To: rey

So we could see legal precedent that shoplifters won’t fear being physically stopped.

If that happens, it will give a giant green light to shoplifters and flash mob types. If they learn that nothing will happen to them, we will see much more of this behavior.


2 posted on 01/23/2014 12:14:52 PM PST by Dilbert San Diego (Interesting)
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To: rey

Scum Bag Attorneys at their best. . . . .


3 posted on 01/23/2014 12:15:02 PM PST by DeaconRed (Its as simple as This: I HATE ZERO WITH ALL MY HEART. . . .)
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To: rey
You should have NO reasonable expectation of safety when engaging in thievery or violent crime.

I agree 100%.

4 posted on 01/23/2014 12:16:52 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Dilbert San Diego

...and Walmart can open a “Shoplifter’s Express Line” to allow them a safer and more orderly egress from their stores.


5 posted on 01/23/2014 12:19:05 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: WayneS

Exodus 22:2


6 posted on 01/23/2014 12:19:40 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: rey

A person in the commission of a crime should suffer whatever consequences befall them without legal recourse, including injury or death.


7 posted on 01/23/2014 12:22:14 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: rey

So, lets suppose I run a sleazy liquor store. I conspire with a few under aged would-be customers who pre-pay, at premium prices for stuff they then shoplift. I of course won’t lift a finger to stop them, fear for my life and all that.


8 posted on 01/23/2014 12:25:51 PM PST by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
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To: SpaceBar
A person in the commission of a crime should suffer whatever consequences befall them without legal recourse, including injury or death.

Absolutely. If a criminal has been caught, the punishment can "fit" the crime as the legal system has the criminal to punish him and make him pay restitution. Before a criminal is caught or during the criminal act the aggrieved party has no assurance of retribution or restitution. Killing or injuring a thief in the act is absolutely morally righteous but unfortunately not legal in most states.

9 posted on 01/23/2014 12:30:03 PM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: rey

Seems to me years ago there was a case in California where a burglar trying to break into a school fell through a skylight, fell a long distance to the floor and was paralyzed. And he did sue and won lifetime support from the school board.

As a result a bill was introduced in the California Legislature barring you from torts if you were injured while committing a criminal act.

I guess it didn’t pass?


10 posted on 01/23/2014 12:41:19 PM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“So we could see legal precedent that shoplifters won’t fear being physically stopped.”

We don’t need the precident, but I believe most retail store policies already advise not trying to interfere with would-be robbers. I know this was the case for me when I tended register.


11 posted on 01/23/2014 12:44:42 PM PST by Owl558 (Those who remember George Santayana are doomed to repeat him)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I was in the street level Bon Marche Food Court in Paris a few years ago when a Communist led protest group went by. A number of marchers came in and stuffed packaged food items under their coats and left. Store employees ignored what was going on. Obviously there would be retribution if they stopped anyone.

It’s amusing that Stalin exterminated people in the Ukraine for taking food when he demanded they send all the food produced there be shipped to other parts of Russia. He was bringing them into submission because Lenin had let them have more freedom than the rest of the Soviet state in exchange for the food they produced. The Ukraine openly greeted the Nazis when they invaded and Hitler made a big mistake in treating them like the rest of the Russians. He could have had a base of support to help him later when the Red Army was pushing him back.


12 posted on 01/23/2014 12:51:23 PM PST by alpo (What would Selco do?)
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To: rey
The bottle broke when he hit the ground, causing injury that required emergency surgery. Ramirez later sued the grocery chain and the manager for monetary damages.

It simply shouldn't be possible to sue for injuries incurred during the commission of a crime.

13 posted on 01/23/2014 12:56:20 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: rey
Fine. Do your shopping on a terminal. When you have finished shopping, run your debit card. If the payment clears, your order will be available at the "will call" counter in exchange for the printed receipt with a bar code identifying your order. On delivery of the goods, the receipt system marks it delivered and the receipt is invalid for additional demands. No shoppers in the warehouse area. A secure website will be available for those who wish to shop from home before coming to claim their purchases at will call.

Warehouse space is cheaper than commercial retail space. No shoplifters. No annoyed shoppers working around the shelf stocking clerks. No shelf stocking clerks. Perhaps completely automated robotic warehouse.

14 posted on 01/23/2014 12:58:03 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin

You realize keeping most of the stock behind the counter was once normal business practice .


15 posted on 01/23/2014 1:15:04 PM PST by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: rey

At Lowes, the policy is, ask a customer to view their cart or bag and if they ignore you and keep walking then oh well. The Loss prevention officer then will get with the local PD and get pictures of the guy.
Problem is somebody can walk out with hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of stuff and no one will do anything about it or they will be fired.


16 posted on 01/23/2014 1:20:21 PM PST by vpintheak (Thankful to be God blessed & chosen!)
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To: Myrddin

I can hear it now! “That’s Racist!”


17 posted on 01/23/2014 1:22:44 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: rey

Just wondering - would the law treat it any differently if it had been a cop who tackled the thief? Isn’t tackling someone “reasonable force” no matter how you look at it?


18 posted on 01/23/2014 1:23:27 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: rey

Keep this in mind the next time you hear about a clerk getting fired for bringing a gun and defending himself. Stuff like this is exactly why stores have these policies and these clerks get fired.


19 posted on 01/23/2014 1:23:55 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: vpintheak

I shop at a Fred Meyer store, and there have been times when the “theft” beeper goes off on me almost every time I go there. It’s embarrassing, but very rarely does an employee actually come over and check your bags. I’ve tried without success to figure out what it is that triggers the beeper. I noticed during the Christmas season, it was a real “beep-fest,” with the beeper going off for about half of the customers. My theory is that a lot of extra merchandise is electronically tagged at that time, and busy clerks forget to deactivate them.


20 posted on 01/23/2014 1:27:51 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: Steve_Seattle

Of course it would be different if a “ruling class enforcer” did the tackling.


21 posted on 01/23/2014 1:28:51 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: alpo

“The Ukraine openly greeted the Nazis when they invaded and Hitler made a big mistake in treating them like the rest of the Russians. He could have had a base of support to help him later when the Red Army was pushing him back.”

When the wall came down and Soviet files were opened they admitted they deliberately sent agents behind the lines to provoke Axis retribution against Ukrainians; while the Axis fell for it hook, line, and sinker, it isn’t as cut & dry as the media now portrays those events (Nazis bullying Ukrainians because of racial ideology).


22 posted on 01/23/2014 2:03:53 PM PST by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: rey

The second time I was robbed at knifepoint overnight in the pharmacy, the assistant manager followed the guy out the front door to watch which direction he ran. She got in so much trouble just for doing that. Obviously no one but us really cared if he was ever caught.

Me and her were left alone in the store a lot of nights. I was all the way in the back corner with the drugs, and she was up front by herself with the registers. She was a brave chick, God Bless her. She never knew I always had my gun on me. Nobody did, or I would have been fired.


23 posted on 01/23/2014 2:27:24 PM PST by ToastedHead
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Pass or not, I can see the Ninth Circus kicking that sucker through the goalposts from 99 yards away.


24 posted on 01/23/2014 2:33:11 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: rey

Criminals should be held totally & solely responsible for all injuries, death, or damage to property resulting from their actions.


25 posted on 01/23/2014 3:00:51 PM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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